Guild Wars 2

Rangelost.4857:

Made up statistics are not pertinent.

Pretty safe to say 30-40% of the userbase is at least female (if not more). If you take in account the females who don’t vs the males that wouldn’t mind more skirts I’d say it evens out. The whole percentages was based off of someone’s claim that Anet only goes for the majority (which isn’t bad but if you’re ignoring nearly half the userbase for that majority you’re loosing a good untapped market here and assuming majority=male which = kittenty mc kitten kitten outfits)

Rangelost.4857:

Unisex armor isn’t designed for males specifically. It’s designed for flat-chested creatures.

They should rethink their design on regular humonid females then. There is more to femininity then BOOBS and BUTT. If they can’t figure that out then anet may want to think about getting designers who CAN do that. Cabalist on humonids is cute but doesn’t focus to much on the chest/butt area.

Rangelost.4857:

“Lazy design” allows for an overall much larger variety of armor available. Besides, if each race had their own custom design for each set of armor (which would take 5 times more resources each, and so 5 times the development time), I can guarantee you players would ask to make them available for all anyway.

LOL and here is the Quantity verse Quality argument. I would much rather have 1 set of GOOD armor designed for all the races then 10-15 sets of crap armor (which I, as an asura main, am currently getting). If all you keep getting offered is crap then why the hell are you going to continue paying for it? There is a reason a lot of the female asura I see running around are in TA. If ONE armor set is the prevelent set the designers who are trying to make money should step back and ask why and how can we replicate this to our advantage?

Rangelost.4857:

As of right now, players can wear armor from other races except for cultural sets. For example, a charr can wear Inquest gear, and an asura can wear Flame Legion gear.

They still get the MALE versions moved over. If I want nipple clips/nipple pasties/belts over my bust on my asura I have a few armors to choose from (including 1-3 in the cash shop for purchuse). Probably more armors to choose from for that then just wanting a skirt on my asura (I would have to seriously look to see how many do that on her, I know 3 off the top of my head).

Rangelost.4857:

I still think the best option would be unisex armor design for all races, and release new unisex armor sets with the skimpy human female design themes. That way, everyone can enjoy butterflies or no butterflies on their carapace armor.

that I can agree to. I also don’t like the fact that male humonids also don’t have many skirts/dresses to choose from. A big part of guild wars 2 is making your character look the way you want. The more options and choices the better. If you want a male norn in a frilly dress and be called the tooth fairy, why the hell not? After all it’s suppose to be how YOU want to play.

The Asura as a race value intellect far more than physical characteristics (aside from ears) when it comes to selecting a mate. The Charr, likewise, value strength and ferocity (and possibly fur/horns) as indicators of desirability. It therefore is logical that neither race really embraces the “feminine” versions of armors, since they tend to be more revealing and less utilitarian.

That said, I have no objections to the female version of armors being made available for Charr and Asura players if that is what their players want to look like. More cosmetic options is never a bad thing when it comes to games, and female Charr/Asura could always have been influenced by other racial/cultural fashion standards after having lived among them for a time.

Candy.6835:

I would much rather have 1 set of GOOD armor designed for all the races then 10-15 sets of crap armor (which I, as an asura main, am currently getting).

Now, that’s only a matter of opinion. I find most armor sets to look very good on my asura females. As a matter of fact, I find most “female human” versions to look hideous. If I had those versions available instead of what we have now, I would be very upset.

Rangelost.4857:

Now, that’s only a matter of opinion. I find most armor sets to look very good on my asura females. As a matter of fact, I find most “female human” versions to look hideous. If I had those versions available instead of what we have now, I would be very upset.

Since you’re already being appeased it would not bother you if they released a few more skirts then for those of us who want other options then what is given to us. I don’t mind my humans/slyvari/norn’s options. If they want to look normal, they can, if they want to look like they just slapped on a swim suit and called it good, they can. If they want to look like they are a high noble, that option is also given to them. They have plenty of options to choose from here (though one can argue medium and the kitten coats but that’s for another forum topic) BUT if you’re an asura or a charr your options are severely limited. If you LIKE what’s being given you’re great! If you don’t….

I know I’m not the only one in my guild that wants more skirts.

Rangelost.4857:

Unisex armor isn’t designed for males specifically. It’s designed for flat-chested creatures.

At the end of the day it’s just ANETs decision as to how unisex is defined in Tyria but as an honest question to you: Why should unisex mean flat chested? What if female would be the default and unisex armors should be designed for creatures with female characteristics?

I don’t actually care about this, since I consider this whole argument pointless. Steering such a conversation into a male/female direction quite often leads to anger (I’m surprised this thread is still so civil!). The reason why I do not agree with the male dominance in Asura and Charr clothing is simply that it takes away armor variety for these races. I do not care the slightest how you label unisex, or which types of armor you deem adequate or how you call these… I just think choosing the male armor over the female one in the majority of cases means less variety. As an exmaple: An Asura should be able to look cute. Cute is neither male nor female, it’s just cute. You can do that with the current armor sets, but why not give us a bit more options?

Candy.6835:

Since you’re already being appeased it would not bother you if they released a few more skirts then for those of us who want other options then what is given to us. I don’t mind my humans/slyvari/norn’s options. If they want to look normal, they can, if they want to look like they just slapped on a swim suit and called it good, they can. If they want to look like they are a high noble, that option is also given to them. They have plenty of options to choose from here (though one can argue medium and the kitten coats but that’s for another forum topic) BUT if you’re an asura or a charr your options are severely limited. If you LIKE what’s being given you’re great! If you don’t….

I’m not sure I understand. All races of either sex have the same number of armor sets and outfits to choose from.

I think the problem is specifically wanting one sex of specific races only to have more options than everyone else. There’s simply no way to go about it. There’s always people who are going to prefer the “human male” version, and others the “human female” version. Currently, there’s no way to make the “human female” version fit on an asura or a charr. They would have to make a third version, and that’s too much work for no good reason.

Just look at the [Ancestral Outfit], for example. The boob window on Asura and Charr looks extremely out of place.

Veydar.5017:

At the end of the day it’s just ANETs decision as to how unisex is defined in Tyria but as an honest question to you: Why should unisex mean flat chested? What if female would be the default and unisex armors should be designed for creatures with female characteristics?

Because human, norn and sylvari females are the only exceptions with the particular characteristic of prominent breasts, and they are the only ones with different armor skins as a result. You can cut a hole in pants for a tail, but I don’t think cutting holes in a breastplate for boobs would be in everyone’s best interest.

Logically speaking, if Skritt or Tengu became playable races, both sexes would also wear the “human male” versions because of this.

Veydar.5017:

The reason why I do not agree with the male dominance in Asura and Charr clothing is simply that it takes away armor variety for these races. I do not care the slightest how you label unisex, or which types of armor you deem adequate or how you call these… I just think choosing the male armor over the female one in the majority of cases means less variety. As an exmaple: An Asura should be able to look cute. Cute is neither male nor female, it’s just cute. You can do that with the current armor sets, but why not give us a bit more options?

That’s a strange way to put it. As a character, you only have one sex. In the end, you don’t have less choices than anyone else.

And yes, an asura should be able to look cute, the same way a human, norn, sylvari, charr, skritt, hylek, grawl or even mursaat should also be able to look cute.

There’s just no way of giving more options, unless they take away potential future options. It’s always a binary choice, and if one fits better than the other, it will most likely be taken.

This is why all those clamoring for Tengu are going to be disappointed if/when they actually appear. Anet’ll spend as much time on Tengu armor as on Charr armor. In other words, awful looking stretched textures (ported directly from the human version) and massive clipping.

They’ll end up being played as little as Charr are.

Rangelost.4857:

That’s a strange way to put it. As a character, you only have one sex. In the end, you don’t have less choices than anyone else.

And yes, an asura should be able to look cute, the same way a human, norn, sylvari, charr, skritt, hylek, grawl or even mursaat should also be able to look cute.

There’s just no way of giving more options, unless they take away potential future options. It’s always a binary choice, and if one fits better than the other, it will most likely be taken.

And I disagree with how gendered gw2 is. I think all outfits/armor should be unisexed. Human, charr, slyvari, norn. If someone wants to wear a dress, they should be allowed to even if they’re male or female, charr or human. Part of this game is playing how you want to play. It was in one of the first videos anet put out for guild wars 2. If I want to play a cross dressing norn I should be allowed that option BUT as they seem to either gender everything (in the case of the humonids) or gender NOTHING (in the case of charr and asura though they prodomantly get the male skin of the humonid outfits moved over) they can’t even do that right.

There are times I want my human to be in a fancy tux but since the outfit on females is a dress I don’t get that option and that in itself frustrates me. I hate the fact that the noble outfit on an asuran female IS a tux and not a cute dress (I raged for MONTHS at that, I was looking forward to a cute dress). I dislike the fact that the Lich outfit has nipple clips on asuran females. What art director allowed that? Having a low cut hanging shirt was WORSE then nipple clips on a female asuran how?

Candy.6835:

And I disagree with how gendered gw2 is. I think all outfits/armor should be unisexed. Human, charr, slyvari, norn. If someone wants to wear a dress, they should be allowed to even if they’re male or female, charr or human. Part of this game is playing how you want to play. It was in one of the first videos anet put out for guild wars 2. If I want to play a cross dressing norn I should be allowed that option BUT as they seem to either gender everything (in the case of the humonids) or gender NOTHING (in the case of charr and asura though they prodomantly get the male skin of the humonid outfits moved over) they can’t even do that right.

There are times I want my human to be in a fancy tux but since the outfit on females is a dress I don’t get that option and that in itself frustrates me. I hate the fact that the noble outfit on an asuran female IS a tux and not a cute dress (I raged for MONTHS at that, I was looking forward to a cute dress). I dislike the fact that the Lich outfit has nipple clips on asuran females. What art director allowed that? Having a low cut hanging shirt was WORSE then nipple clips on a female asuran how?

but does it fit with the lore?

Also for Asuran dresses, the Wintersday dress is actually a dress.

Why do people think that Asura culturally have no interest in looking feminine and “girly” when Taimi is clearly wearing a ribbon in her hair?

Liz.1497:

Why do people think that Asura culturally have no interest in looking feminine and “girly” when Taimi is clearly wearing a ribbon in her hair?

Does that mean a female Asura wants to wear dresses though? Or do Asura have their own (non human) standards and ways to show femininity. Possibly thru showing how big the ears are or how broad the forehead.

None of this would be a problem if it wasn’t for the fact that most of the female armor in this game looks very different from the male versions. Some look so different that its hard to even consider them the same armor thematically, even though they are named the same thing.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Agreed. Unisex should not = male… Mens clothing is not any more unisex than womens clothing.

look at women in your work place the military or in schools they wear pants or skirts. now look at the men …. they wear pants…. pants are unisex. When women were accepted into the military the uniform they wore was the same as the mens simple as that. men simply wear unisex clothing it is not unisex clothing is mens clothing. grow up welcome to the real world where both genders wear pants and t-shirts.

That said it is very lazy for them not to make a female specific set. kitten let us crossdress while we are at it.

There’s also the Honour of the Waves skirt (I wear that, woo)

I have a feeling anet would cater to this if it was feasable, they’ve done a lot so far. MMOs are a numbers game though. I have a feeling if there was a survey it would disagree with our human style femininity option for charr and asura.

Also breast shapes in armour are a terrible idea that counteracts its use as armour, thanks for funnelling blades towards my heart.

Candy.6835:

I think all outfits/armor should be unisexed. Human, charr, slyvari, norn. If someone wants to wear a dress, they should be allowed to even if they’re male or female, charr or human.

I agree. I think it’s safe to say everyone would be happy if that were the case.

Astral Projections.7320:

Liz.1497:

Why do people think that Asura culturally have no interest in looking feminine and “girly” when Taimi is clearly wearing a ribbon in her hair?

Does that mean a female Asura wants to wear dresses though? Or do Asura have their own (non human) standards and ways to show femininity. Possibly thru showing how big the ears are or how broad the forehead.

What’s the point in asking this question? I don’t know the answer and neither do you – the only people who would are the anet people responsible for lore and the SS15 Asura fashion forecast crew.

We can only go off what we know and what we want our characters to be. What do we know? Female Asurans wear ribbons in their hair, which is a classical sterotypical “feminine” accessory (which directly disproves the claim that Asura “are too cebreal and do not care for such frivolity as gender specific fashion items”). What do we want our characters to be? There are a 100 answers to this one, why should people that think their Asura female wants to wear a dress be put to a disadvantage?

Rangelost.4857:

That’s a strange way to put it. As a character, you only have one sex. In the end, you don’t have less choices than anyone else.

Well, maybe the person you quoted worded it badly but I share the sentiment. Let me try to put it better:

Status quo:

• Asura of either gender look extremely similar. Unlike Norn, Humans or Sylvari, sexual dimorphism (the word-filter is going to eat this, sorry :P ) is minimal, so the genders aren’t easy to tell apart at all.
• As a result, asura generally don’t differentiate too much between their male/female clothing. This makes sense, as a society they wouldn’t have evolved a desire for different clothes by gender.
• (Now comes the bad part) Their armor is nearly always a copy&paste of the style of the male gender of Humans/Norns/Sylvari.
• There are only a handful of exceptions to this.

Desired state:

• Instead of copying either the male or the female design, Asura would logically have their own style of armor.
• This style could be all over the place. It could be cute, it could be frilly, it could be heavy plate, anything. The point is, they aren’t bound to simply copy&paste another race’s specific gender.

Problem is, I can see why it is this way. Lacking breasts, the male design is slightly easier to copy over to the asuran (or charr) models, and this way there’s less work involved in creating armor.
Design once, copy&paste on Norn/Humans (I think they design on Sylvari, seriously), then copy&paste&adapt for Asura/Charr. Total designs needed: 2.
If they were to change this for a unique style for Asura (and I guess Charr), that’d be 4 total designs.

Still, stop giving me copy&paste implementations of bookah armor!

Carighan.6758:

Desired state:

• Instead of copying either the male or the female design, Asura would logically have their own style of armor.
• This style could be all over the place. It could be cute, it could be frilly, it could be heavy plate, anything. The point is, they aren’t bound to simply copy&paste another race’s specific gender.

So what happens when Human/Sylvari/Norn try to put on armor designed for Asura (or Charr)? Does it magically morph into something more fitting to those races’ cultural styles?

Corax.7381:

So what happens when Human/Sylvari/Norn try to put on armor designed for Asura (or Charr)? Does it magically morph into something more fitting to those races’ cultural styles?

In theory that’s a valid question, only that specific thing is a suspension of disbelief we already have to do for virtually all races in all MMOs. Nothing new, tbh.

Carighan.6758:

Problem is, I can see why it is this way. Lacking breasts, the male design is slightly easier to copy over to the asuran (or charr) models, and this way there’s less work involved in creating armor.
Design once, copy&paste on Norn/Humans (I think they design on Sylvari, seriously), then copy&paste&adapt for Asura/Charr. Total designs needed: 2.
If they were to change this for a unique style for Asura (and I guess Charr), that’d be 4 total designs.

Still, stop giving me copy&paste implementations of bookah armor!

I might be repeating myself here, but here’s what I think.

While Asura and Charr are by far my favorite races, and I’d love to see unique designs just for them, we’d probably get the same issue: what if someone actually wanted the human male design instead? Or the human female design? And why are these two specific races getting so much more love than the rest? Why not make 10 designs?

A lot of armor look pretty much the same on everyone. Rawhide, Pirate, Chainmail, Reinforced Scale… and many more. I don’t think most of these armor actually belong to a specific culture, so it’s great that they look the same on everyone. It looks like pretty standard armor.

Some armor, however, looks very different on human males and human females. Acolyte, for example. I like to imagine that it is because these armor sets originated in a culture where men and women dress differently because of their different body types (or where women love getting stabbed, apparently), such as humans.

Inquest armor, for example, originated from Asuran culture. As a result, the “human male” version and the “human female” version look very similar (for the most part). Boobed creatures might have to modify a thing or two to make it fit, but the theme is the same. Arah armor, on the other hand, originated from Orrian culture, and the two versions look vastly more different. One of those could hardly be worn by a boobless creature, however, so the “male” version gets picked by boobless races.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing, but I do think having more options is always better. Town clothes used to look different on everyone, and the Cook’s Outfit still does. I really wish they’d bring town clothes back as outfits, and add some of the generic NPCs’ clothes as outfits in the same way. But that’s a whole different topic.

^
whats the funny thing is that NPCs get stuff that FITS the darn race…sure.. frumpy but with the small detail THAT IT kittenING FITS. Id kill to have that blue lioncloth with the pouches as a proper armor skin, heck even take it so far and take the mesh and update the textures with some designs or that hood…It respects horns AND ears.. Ugh…

I think a lot of people play this game because they are entertained and find the game fun to play not because of the lore of the game.
We had a discussion the other night in guild chat about the lore and only one member was interested in it.
People like myself only play asura and my 2 mains have over 2000 hours each and over 5000 hours in total, all on asuras.
All were asking is to make female outfits and male outfits to have some difference and obviously the female version leaning toward a more ‘girly’ look.
A lot of time and effort is put into most peoples characters and how they look especially after 100’s of hours played. Were just asking for a little love for our female characters that’s all

Rangelost.4857:

I might be repeating myself here, but here’s what I think.

While Asura and Charr are by far my favorite races, and I’d love to see unique designs just for them, we’d probably get the same issue: what if someone actually wanted the human male design instead? Or the human female design? And why are these two specific races getting so much more love than the rest? Why not make 10 designs?

Uhhhh. Because they already got half the attention to begin with? I don’t want to be pedantic, but it’s pretty obvious that Charr and Asura as a race have half the armor options in total. So it’s not that Charr and Asura get “more love” if they were to design gender specific armor for those races.

Personally, I don’t particularly feel frustrated towards this, but then I don’t really feel the need to dress up my asura and charr females as a female. (They tend to be more “tough-personality” of sorts.)

But the suggestion to make more gender specific armor is certainly something I can see has alot of value. I mean, just because of “lore reasons” is not really good enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if a female asura or female charr would want to look more feminine at all. Unless you want to be a traditionalist ofcourse.

Either way, the whole designing armor from a human perspective is showing. Whether this is female or male alone. In my opinion it would be much more interesting to see more armor designed from a charr or asura perspective and then copy pasted* to a humanoid model. (In terms of more or less love for a race (snort) that would at least mean 20% of all the armors would be fitting on a race.)

*I’m pretty sure it’s alot more complicated than that, but yeah.

Carighan.6758:

Problem is, I can see why it is this way. Lacking breasts, the male design is slightly easier to copy over to the asuran (or charr) models, and this way there’s less work involved in creating armor.
Design once, copy&paste on Norn/Humans (I think they design on Sylvari, seriously), then copy&paste&adapt for Asura/Charr. Total designs needed: 2.
If they were to change this for a unique style for Asura (and I guess Charr), that’d be 4 total designs.

Still, stop giving me copy&paste implementations of bookah armor!

Here’s the problem with that theory. Most of us are asking for skirts. Boobs have nothing to do with skirts

I’d be happy and right as rain if I could have the male version of the winged bottom for my human female. That way I could use the piece for both of my female characters and not have one look like a stripper. Since I can’t, I’d like to have just one skirt to use that will make my Asura look nice and my human look nice when I swap armor over.

The other hand…I’d like for my female humans to have more options than dressing like a stripper. What functionality does that winged bottom have, with one half of the woman’s bottom sticking out for all monsters to gnaw on? Why does a mesmer/ele/necro have to look like she’s some pretty pretty princess doll? More than half of their armors are either too little or look frumpy.

Wish they’d hire designers who didn’t think about boobs and butt and put some thought into what characters will be running around their world in.

rabidsmiles.5926:

Wish they’d hire designers who didn’t think about boobs and butt and put some thought into what characters will be running around their world in.

They did. Those designers were in charge of designing the Asura and the Charr.

Corax.7381:

Carighan.6758:

Desired state:

• Instead of copying either the male or the female design, Asura would logically have their own style of armor.
• This style could be all over the place. It could be cute, it could be frilly, it could be heavy plate, anything. The point is, they aren’t bound to simply copy&paste another race’s specific gender.

So what happens when Human/Sylvari/Norn try to put on armor designed for Asura (or Charr)? Does it magically morph into something more fitting to those races’ cultural styles?

try on the cook outfit. It “magically” does that and it looks good