Guild Wars 2

Totally agree.

They need to count how many Champs you kill, and then dole out all of the loot bags at the end when you complete the invasion.

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair. The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

Don’t do invasions? Come join us at the temples where fail = fail.
…unless you are/were in an embers farming zerg :/

Saelune.5316:

The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

That’s the problem with the invasion-rewards in my opinion. Too much for failing, too less “more” for actually succeeding.

@Daywolf

I’m totally in for doing temples again as those will give us new ascended stuff we need to create the new weapons! I hope that will liven up orr a little bit.

While I do farm the event too, I also find it ridiculous that failing nets more reward than success.

But hey, that’s where the money is.

hmm success gives 2 guaranteed rares and the full 5 boxes and the other champ bags. I don’t think you get as much farming champs (considering you have to kill a bunch of champs to succeed either way)

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair.

It’s not ‘unfair’. It’s perfectly fair, since the event can actually be done.

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like giving bankers bonus’ for managing to NOT crash the economy throughout the year.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like giving bankers bonus’ for managing to NOT crash the economy throughout the year.

Hah, yet here we are, gotta love those bankers.

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair. The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

Thats the problem the OP is describing failure shouldn’t be rewarded at all.

It would give incentive to actually win.

Acerola.6407:

@Daywolf

I’m totally in for doing temples again as those will give us new ascended stuff we need to create the new weapons! I hope that will liven up orr a little bit.

Two weeks now w/o temples I feel so lost lol
Yeah should be active very soon. Just hope they don’t overdo it, small and medium sized assaults are nice.

Anyway, so let me get this strait, people are complaining about the invasions farming as they themselves farm the invasions? All you really need is one win and then one participation per map… otherwise you are farming. Ya know?
I turned on my tag and led our victories, but now I’m done. Moved on

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair.

It’s not ‘unfair’. It’s perfectly fair, since the event can actually be done.

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like giving bankers bonus’ for managing to NOT crash the economy throughout the year.

GW2: Video Game
Banking: Not Video Game

Saelune.5316:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair.

It’s not ‘unfair’. It’s perfectly fair, since the event can actually be done.

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like giving bankers bonus’ for managing to NOT crash the economy throughout the year.

GW2: Video Game
Banking: Not Video Game

You were the one that called doing the event ‘work’.

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like saying “well, the players did their best, got the boss down to 2%, so we’ll set it to automatically die”. A bit better?

Rewarding failure means the player has nothing to strive for. I mean, why strive for victory when failure is just as, if not more rewarding?

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair.

It’s not ‘unfair’. It’s perfectly fair, since the event can actually be done.

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like giving bankers bonus’ for managing to NOT crash the economy throughout the year.

GW2: Video Game
Banking: Not Video Game

You were the one that called doing the event ‘work’.

Saying that players should get rewarded for failure because they done their best is like saying “well, the players did their best, got the boss down to 2%, so we’ll set it to automatically die”. A bit better?

Rewarding failure means the player has nothing to strive for. I mean, why strive for victory when failure is just as, if not more rewarding?

There would be more people complaining louder if there was no reward at all if you dont finish it. Maybe the issue is the success reward should be better instead of the fail reward being worse/absent. Its a game. It shouldnt feel like work, and getting nothing after doing alot of stuff like the invasion would turn it into a very tiring experience.

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair. The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

Worst logical approach ever……….

A reward is given to those who have actually achieved or completed something. Not to the failures who don’t care to try and achieve.

No reason to try when we can fail and be rewarded for nothing! Yay for American systems!

As a quote from the movie “The Incredibles”:
Bob: " It’s psychotic! They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity, but if someone is genuinely exceptional…"

You get the idea.

Saelune.5316:

There would be more people complaining louder if there was no reward at all if you dont finish it. Maybe the issue is the success reward should be better instead of the fail reward being worse/absent. Its a game. It shouldnt feel like work, and getting nothing after doing alot of stuff like the invasion would turn it into a very tiring experience.

The reward would be better:

• If you succeed, you get all of your Champion loot bags.
• If you fail, you only have what you loot from everything else (currency, blues, greens and, if you’re lucky, yellows), which would still be something.

Vanthian.9267:

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair. The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

Worst logical approach ever……….

A reward is given to those who have actually achieved or completed something. Not to the failures who don’t care to try and achieve.

No reason to try when we can fail and be rewarded for nothing! Yay for American systems!

As a quote from the movie “The Incredibles”:
Bob: " It’s psychotic! They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity, but if someone is genuinely exceptional…"

You get the idea.

Its a game for entertainment value. Its not school, not work, not anything of importance beyond having fun. Why do you need to suck the fun out?

Saelune.5316:

Its a game for entertainment value. Its not school, not work, not anything of importance beyond having fun. Why do you need to suck the fun out?

Tell me what every single person in this game finds fun and entertaining.

For me, if something is going to be fun, it also needs to be engaging. I find it pretty hard to get engaged when people don’t actually care about the actual objective.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Its a game for entertainment value. Its not school, not work, not anything of importance beyond having fun. Why do you need to suck the fun out?

Tell me what every single person in this game finds fun.

I dont know, but I fail to see how taking it away from others by nerfing rewards is better. But in general I find its better to build up weak areas to balance it out rather than nerf the strong ones. I bet most people dont find working hard for nothing fun though.

Saelune.5316:

Vanthian.9267:

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair. The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

Worst logical approach ever……….

A reward is given to those who have actually achieved or completed something. Not to the failures who don’t care to try and achieve.

No reason to try when we can fail and be rewarded for nothing! Yay for American systems!

As a quote from the movie “The Incredibles”:
Bob: " It’s psychotic! They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity, but if someone is genuinely exceptional…"

You get the idea.

Its a game for entertainment value. Its not school, not work, not anything of importance beyond having fun. Why do you need to suck the fun out?

This logic could also apply to sporting events, and don’t get me started on the “everyone deserves a trophy argument” it basically takes the accomplishment out of victory so to speak.

KingClash.3186:

Saelune.5316:

Vanthian.9267:

Saelune.5316:

Then people would complain of doing alot of work for nothing. That is way more unfair. The reward for completing it isnt much better than failing anyways.

Worst logical approach ever……….

A reward is given to those who have actually achieved or completed something. Not to the failures who don’t care to try and achieve.

No reason to try when we can fail and be rewarded for nothing! Yay for American systems!

As a quote from the movie “The Incredibles”:
Bob: " It’s psychotic! They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity, but if someone is genuinely exceptional…"

You get the idea.

Its a game for entertainment value. Its not school, not work, not anything of importance beyond having fun. Why do you need to suck the fun out?

This logic could also apply to sporting events, and don’t get me started on the “everyone deserves a trophy argument” it basically take the accomplishment out of victory so to speak.

Sports has two groups of people competing. The invasions is one group of people against the game. Its one thing of winners and losers in PvP get the same exact reward, but this is either everyone gets rewarded, or no one. If the invaders were other players, then maybe failure should not be so rewarded.

Saelune.5316:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Its a game for entertainment value. Its not school, not work, not anything of importance beyond having fun. Why do you need to suck the fun out?

Tell me what every single person in this game finds fun.

I dont know, but I fail to see how taking it away from others by nerfing rewards is better. But in general I find its better to build up weak areas to balance it out rather than nerf the strong ones. I bet most people dont find working hard for nothing fun though.

But you just said the game isn’t work.

In some cases, yes it is better to boost.

However, there’s other things to take into consideration. Inflation is one of them. Think how much you’d have to increase rewards by in order to have people actually incentivised in succeeding, and that effect on the economy as a whole. I mean, I failed an invasion the other day (got to around 60% on the final stage) and I still made around 25 gold in drops and such.

Im glad the fail reward is there. I hate feeling like Im doing something for nothing.

I use the word work to mean to do something as opposed to the unfun connotation of work. So sue me.

If you hate your stuff, feel free to click destroy on your chests. I like not feeling like Im wasting my time even if we cant beat Scarlet, though Ive only done the invasions 12 times. (Waiting on the last area then Im done)

Saelune.5316:

Im glad the fail reward is there. I hate feeling like Im doing something for nothing.

So if the reward wasn’t there, you wouldn’t do it?

I mean, what happened to playing for fun? It’s a bit of a contradiction, unless you find playing content you find unfun for loot fun.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Im glad the fail reward is there. I hate feeling like Im doing something for nothing.

So if the reward wasn’t there, you wouldn’t do it?

I mean, what happened to playing for fun? It’s a bit of a contradiction, unless you find playing content you find unfun for loot fun.

Its an RPG. Personally I go for achievements, but the items are nice. But in rpgs with gear and stuff…getting gear and stuff is kinda fun to get. Its how the game is built. Borderlands is another game where you kinda expect that chest at the end. Plus hourly invasions of the same thing, merely completing it gives little reward on its own, as opposed to maybe finishing parts of the story or even a dungeon. Some games merely beating it is reward enough, MMORPGs arent built like that for the most part though.

I did a lot of those invasion events. It definitely paid more to succeed the events than to just farm champs. However, being just one person, I found myself alone at the minion sites far too often so had to just tag along with the zerg killing pirates. Ah well, still made about 80 gold in the last week. I think maybe it might have made a difference if the achievements weren’t doled out unless you actually succeeded… though then again it might just have caused player strife between those that did care about achievements (like me) and those who didn’t. I dunno. At the end of the day I simply kept going to get the achievements even though it wasn’t fun after the first three invasions

Saelune.5316:

Some games merely beating it is reward enough, MMORPGs arent built like that for the most part though.

Indeed, and that is a design flaw, or should I say reliance on using Skinner Box techniques to disguise weak content. That, however, is a completely different topic.

The main thing of MMO’s is the MMO part. It’s the playing with other people, everyone doing their best and working together.

The whole ‘it doesn’t matter if we fail or not’ thing works against this, as well as the whole ‘living world’ thing ANet are trying to do. I mean, how alive is the world if the people living in it are more concerned about shinies?

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Some games merely beating it is reward enough, MMORPGs arent built like that for the most part though.

Indeed, and that is a design flaw, or should I say reliance on using Skinner Box techniques to disguise weak content. That, however, is a completely different topic.

The main thing of MMO’s is the MMO part. It’s the playing with other people, everyone doing their best and working together.

The whole ‘it doesn’t matter if we fail or not’ thing works against this, as well as the whole ‘living world’ thing ANet are trying to do. I mean, how alive is the world if the people living in it are more concerned about shinies?

Im merely arguing that fail rewards should stay in the invasions. I hate Living Story and wish it wouldall be permenant content. I also think the issues coming up here would be better solved in other ways instead of just punishing people. Like making farming not hinder the success rate, increasing success rewards, or maybe increasing the timer as much as a mere 5 more minutes. I dont think removing the fail reward will solve anything and just create more complaints.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Totally agree.

They need to count how many Champs you kill, and then dole out all of the loot bags at the end when you complete the invasion.

I said this very thing on TS with my guild and was told it would never happen, BUT, It should. Loot will be handed out AFTER an invasion or event is COMPLETED to its end.

Saelune.5316:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Saelune.5316:

Some games merely beating it is reward enough, MMORPGs arent built like that for the most part though.

Indeed, and that is a design flaw, or should I say reliance on using Skinner Box techniques to disguise weak content. That, however, is a completely different topic.

The main thing of MMO’s is the MMO part. It’s the playing with other people, everyone doing their best and working together.

The whole ‘it doesn’t matter if we fail or not’ thing works against this, as well as the whole ‘living world’ thing ANet are trying to do. I mean, how alive is the world if the people living in it are more concerned about shinies?

Im merely arguing that fail rewards should stay in the invasions. I hate Living Story and wish it wouldall be permenant content. I also think the issues coming up here would be better solved in other ways instead of just punishing people. Like making farming not hinder the success rate, increasing success rewards, or maybe increasing the timer as much as a mere 5 more minutes. I dont think removing the fail reward will solve anything and just create more complaints.

Tell me, who are the people who are going to complain? The ones joining these events for the loot, or the ones who are legitimately trying to succeed?

As I mentioned in a previous post; I agree that nerfing is not always the answer, but in this case, it is, due to inflation. They’d have to base the success rewards on the highest possible accumulation of rewards to come up with a reward that is more of an incentive for succeeding.

Taking away the lootbags and then giving them at the end encourages players to actually try and complete the event, thus incentivises success. As long as you’re not one of them players who simply joins the invasions to farm champs, it shouldn’t be an issue, since, providing your server organizes (Lord forbid players actually have to communicate to complete things), you shouldn’t fail.

You’re not being rewarded for failure when you don’t complete the event on time.

You’re being rewarded for the 40 minutes you spent attempting it.

Many events in GW2 offer reduced or partial awards for failing. To me it’s an incentive… “See this? Imagine what it’d be if you had succeeded!”

I’ve been in clockwork events where all the kitten commanders all go to the same spot on the map and refused to listen to instructions and we fail. I can’t tell you how many times you see commanders in map chat wanting to posture and have kitten ing matches with other commanders instead of getting the work done.

You’re telling me I should be punished and get no reward because people are kittened and can’t finish the event?

No thanks. I’ll take my reward for failure, and you can take your phony self righteousness.

One way to do it is as soon as the backup enemy bar ticks to 0, they despawn from entire map, rather than hanging around. This includes the map enemy bar as well, when that goes, all of groups despawn from map. Granted, this makes it ‘easier’, but would stop excessive farming.

darkdomino.9578:

You’re not being rewarded for failure when you don’t complete the event on time.

You’re being rewarded for the 40 minutes you spent attempting it.

Many events in GW2 offer reduced or partial awards for failing. To me it’s an incentive… “See this? Imagine what it’d be if you had succeeded!”

I’ve been in clockwork events where all the kitten commanders all go to the same spot on the map and refused to listen to instructions and we fail. I can’t tell you how many times you see commanders in map chat wanting to posture and have kitten ing matches with other commanders instead of getting the work done.

You’re telling me I should be punished and get no reward because people are kittened and can’t finish the event?

No thanks. I’ll take my reward for failure, and you can take your phony self righteousness.

The problem is though, failing can be just as lucrative as succeeding. Why bother trying to succeed when this is the case?

Also, I’m pretty sure the Commanders would get their kitten together if it turns out that they don’t get rewarded if they don’t.

People shouldn’t be rewarded for failure.
Yes they should be rewarded for the time invested but it must not be on par with the win.
The rewards for wining and losing should be different.

yes well for various reasons I have not had time to do these invasions until today- I would like to kill Scarlet- I really would.
But the events are failed on purpose- people don’t want to complete it

Yes, stop rewarding failure. Stop rewarding exploits.

In dungeons, you wont get the token rewards if you fail, thus people want to succeed. Spawning an obscene amount of champions that make the end reward pathetic in comparison is like rewarding 20 dungeon tokens for killing the 1st dungeon boss and 40 for completing the dungeon. Nobody would bother completing the dungeon.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

Seriously, it’s simply bad design to reward failure. Why bother completing an invasion when you can just fail and farm champions all day?

sigh this game really is made for casuals.

Lol this post.. pretty much nailed it No matter how you put it and how easy it will be this community will always cry about being too hard.

I was AFK on a zone that was invaded the other day.

Came back to a reward of champion bags, didn’t do a thing for them.

Ontop of rewarding failure, you can be rewarded for being AFK

Please! I never thought I’d actually be unhappy to get rewarded for failing, but I am very unhappy. I should get absolutely nothing as a reward if I fail an event, yet I get a reward that’s almost equal to the reward when I succeed the event if I fail it.

It doesn’t make sense but you can bet I will take advantage of it as long as it is here. The problem aside from that is that Aetherblades are more rewarding than any others. The minions spawn the occasional nightmare champ, and the flame shaman die in 10 seconds so most are dead before you get to them. The Aetherblades though, 3 commanders and the entire zerg there means tons of loot.

I understand people wanting to complete the event, kinda. Can you blame anyone for wanting that loot fest though? Seriously.

Well, to be fair, this is a casual game.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

Seriously, it’s simply bad design to reward failure. Why bother completing an invasion when you can just fail and farm champions all day?

sigh this game really is made for casuals.

oh but it IS made for casuals and be sure things aren’t changing ever.

oo when i saw this title i thought it was something important.

its just a farm fest so ppl can get gold for the ascended crafting

what anet has planned will drain ppls bank accounts (ingame ofc not RL)

I agree they need to stop rewarding failure as heavily as success.

No child left behind.

Zacchary.6183:

No child left behind.

LOL

Phoenixfudge.5290:

Seriously, it’s simply bad design to reward failure. Why bother completing an invasion when you can just fail and farm champions all day?

sigh this game really is made for casuals.

Being a casual doesn’t mean being a person who exploits.

There is no such thing as failure in invasions. They are not like other events. You cannot fail them. Invading forces are always succesfully pushed back. Reward depends on how many waves we manage to defeat before they are pushed back.

Well maybe reguardless some of us still want to win it reguardless of if we get the same rewards or not, maybe some of us have more of a feel for self accoplishment and seeing we are making progress in playing with others or making way though stuff better reguardless of the rewards.

The reward system isnt promoting failure its just people wanting to settle for second best, and no change in the reward system will make that change cause most of the fails anyhow are from people just wanting to farm champs even if they do not add to the progress of the map event, and all changing the reward will do is hurt the people who are trying over the people who are not because this is not organised at all its who gets there gets to do it and your dealing with random people and multiple agendas ( this is why I feel they did it this way is to not penalize the people who are trying just because more people are not careing about finishing the event. )

Now if this was something where you can go into an instanced area and chose who you go in with that would be another story. But reguardless some of us still strive to improve and get better and try and get things done reguardless if we get the same reward or not its more self accoplishment and improvement ( some of us could care less if people think we are awsome or not as long as we know we are getting better and advancing in how we play. )

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Phoenixfudge.5290:

Seriously, it’s simply bad design to reward failure. Why bother completing an invasion when you can just fail and farm champions all day?

sigh this game really is made for casuals.

Being a casual doesn’t mean being a person who exploits.

Indeed. Also, oh no, anything but casuals! Those filthy casuals, ruining our games!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really like the way this event was executed. It bothers me that you get better rewards for failing than for succeeding. I definitely think that they should have tried another direction for this. However, pretty sure that has nothing to do with those awful ~casuals~ ruining everything for you.