Guild Wars 2

Haven’t played the game over 2 years.
I tried to enjoy the story in the base game, and living world season 1 and 2. But the presentation and quality of the writing wasn’t very good imo. Dialogue windows and text boxes was the majority. But I must admit I didn’t give it much of a chance, but that’s how much good presentation matters to me. I usually never care for story in mmorpg’s for that reason .. Untill now ..

Now we have well executed cutscenes, much better dialouge, and well written characters. Heart of Thorns is the first time I enjoyed the story in this game (or in any mmo actually). Just bought living world season 3, and they seem to stick to that high standard, the story is just as great, if not better. I always enjoyed GW2, it’s my favorite mmo actually, but the story was never why.

It’s also really great that our characters actually speaks, it made me much more immersed into the story.
The writing is really great. Dialouge is funny and certain plots even managed to make me sad (poor Eir).

The effort they have put into the story really shows.

And i’m sure GW2 base games story wasn’t bad either, i’m sure lots enjoyed it. But for me personally, the direction they went with it is what I needed to fully enjoy it.

For the sake of discussion, I am personally on the other side of the fence as yourself (which is fine). I played GW2 since maybe a year after it came out, and while the Personal Story wasn’t perfect, I enjoyed aspects of it…especially in comparison to LWS1 onward. I liked the ability to be able to skip past dialogue and cut-scenes I had already heard/seen, when doing playthroughs with other toons, whereas everything after the PS forces you wait for everyone to stop yakking before you can do anything (this is mostly a problem when playing the Living Story with multiple toons).

I also personally dislike the new characters and the new direction of the story. Sure, Taimi has grown on me a bit, but I’d say she’s the only new character I care about to any degree. Everyone else just…annoys me. For different reasons, which I am too tired to lay out here for the hundredth time. Suffice to say, many aspects of the new characters grate on me (personality-wise, for the most part). I just couldn’t bring myself to care about anything that happened to Rox, Braham, Marjory, and Kasmeer. I also am unhappy with what ANet has done to already established characters, either killing people off or making our toon hate their guts for no logical reason.

And that last part, about our characters…is what has frustated and angered me the most. I at least felt like our characters were a blank enough slate during the Personal Story that I could imagine my own details about them, and they learned about people, places and events at the pace that I learned about them. But now, our character, the “Commander”, feels alienated from me. They have done and said things that I disagree with. They are snarky and kitteny at moments that don’t feel appropriate. In essence, they no longer feel like they are my character.

Moyayuki.3619:

For the sake of discussion, I am personally on the other side of the fence as yourself (which is fine). I played GW2 since maybe a year after it came out, and while the Personal Story wasn’t perfect, I enjoyed aspects of it…especially in comparison to LWS1 onward. I liked the ability to be able to skip past dialogue and cut-scenes I had already heard/seen, when doing playthroughs with other toons, whereas everything after the PS forces you wait for everyone to stop yakking before you can do anything (this is mostly a problem when playing the Living Story with multiple toons).

I also personally dislike the new characters and the new direction of the story. Sure, Taimi has grown on me a bit, but I’d say she’s the only new character I care about to any degree. Everyone else just…annoys me. For different reasons, which I am too tired to lay out here for the hundredth time. Suffice to say, many aspects of the new characters grate on me (personality-wise, for the most part). I just couldn’t bring myself to care about anything that happened to Rox, Braham, Marjory, and Kasmeer. I also am unhappy with what ANet has done to already established characters, either killing people off or making our toon hate their guts for no logical reason.

And that last part, about our characters…is what has frustated and angered me the most. I at least felt like our characters were a blank enough slate during the Personal Story that I could imagine my own details about them, and they learned about people, places and events at the pace that I learned about them. But now, our character, the “Commander”, feels alienated from me. They have done and said things that I disagree with. They are snarky and kitteny at moments that don’t feel appropriate. In essence, they no longer feel like they are my character.

Good and 100% valid points. But yeah it’s a matter of opinion.
I’ve never really gotten much into RPG’s where your character makes their own story. I usually find that the quality of the story becomes much worse, because it’s much easier to create a good story if it’s linear. Same reasons I enjoyed Witcher 3 much more than Skyrim etc.

jokke.6239:

Moyayuki.3619:

For the sake of discussion, I am personally on the other side of the fence as yourself (which is fine). I played GW2 since maybe a year after it came out, and while the Personal Story wasn’t perfect, I enjoyed aspects of it…especially in comparison to LWS1 onward. I liked the ability to be able to skip past dialogue and cut-scenes I had already heard/seen, when doing playthroughs with other toons, whereas everything after the PS forces you wait for everyone to stop yakking before you can do anything (this is mostly a problem when playing the Living Story with multiple toons).

I also personally dislike the new characters and the new direction of the story. Sure, Taimi has grown on me a bit, but I’d say she’s the only new character I care about to any degree. Everyone else just…annoys me. For different reasons, which I am too tired to lay out here for the hundredth time. Suffice to say, many aspects of the new characters grate on me (personality-wise, for the most part). I just couldn’t bring myself to care about anything that happened to Rox, Braham, Marjory, and Kasmeer. I also am unhappy with what ANet has done to already established characters, either killing people off or making our toon hate their guts for no logical reason.

And that last part, about our characters…is what has frustated and angered me the most. I at least felt like our characters were a blank enough slate during the Personal Story that I could imagine my own details about them, and they learned about people, places and events at the pace that I learned about them. But now, our character, the “Commander”, feels alienated from me. They have done and said things that I disagree with. They are snarky and kitteny at moments that don’t feel appropriate. In essence, they no longer feel like they are my character.

Good and 100% valid points. But yeah it’s a matter of opinion.
I’ve never really gotten much into RPG’s where your character makes their own story. I usually find that the quality of the story becomes much worse, because it’s much easier to create a good story if it’s linear. Same reasons I enjoyed Witcher 3 much more than Skyrim etc.

Thanks for respecting my opinion, as I do yours! I tend to enjoy either style of RPG, it just depends on how it is executed. I love both TW3 and Skyrim, and other games that fall within that spectrum. As for GW2, well, I do realize that our characters always have had defined personalities from the beginning, but it wasn’t nearly as in-your-face during the Personal Story when compared to the Living Story. It was how quickly that change happened that really irked me.

I still need to catch up in the Living Story, but I was bugged by some of the dialogue that my demo character spoke in the PoF demo two weeks ago. It was also mostly due to how the voice actress delivered the lines. A combination of things, really.

jokke.6239:

Story in the game has really improved

Maybe, but the writing (i.e., the way it is being presented/told) has regressed — most noticeable in the dialogue.

I liked the HoT story as well, especially how the PC protagonist was presented. We consistently displayed the personality traits necessary of someone leading a military assault. Eir’s death scene was compelling, she showed her son how to die with honor. The zone and event storytelling was well crafted and combined with the main story arc made for a cohesive experience the studio should be proud of.

LW3 though….

The PC protagonist becomes a foil for the other characters, presenting personality traits and responding according to what the plot or the characterization of other characters requires rather than as a consistent person. The PC protagonist became the straight person for comedy routines which , imo, erodes sincerity. We switch from correctly telling Braham that the team must work for the greater good rather than pursue his understandable desire to rescue his mother, to pandering to Taimi’s desire to keep important research to herself because she doesn’t want to share credit. We go from being a competent leader of armies to being preoccupied with guild drama. We threaten Rytlock when he doesn’t give us information but pet Kasmeer’s hand even though she took off when we needed her. And for some reason we get squeamish when Taimi describes the biology of some foes.

The dialogue, the presentation, the overall tone has vastly improved since core days. It’s the direction which divides players the most. HoT was too short imo and needed to be 3-4 times longer for an expac story. Lots of story was cut due to time constraints, some which felt detrimental to the overall lore of the World. I got to Dragons Stand and the imminent rescue of Trahearne wondering what Act 2 of the story would bring. Whoops..

There are still hanging threads and most noticeably in LS3, too many extra narratives which prevent the core story following as well as it should, using twists and surprises for the sake of it rather than telling a cohesive story.

Overall it has improved, but it is still wobbling all over the place for me.

See, I’m of the opposite opinion. I feel like the story has been regressing/devolving since about the last fifth of LWS2. I’m really tired of how Anet leaves certain plots hanging and hanging to the point that audience retention is completely lost. They have too much going on at once and try to do too much at once.

What really sucks about all of this is that despite my own disdain and loathing for the story now, there are characters that I genuinely like. However, those characters are part of the hanging plot thread collateral that Anet has created by (again) trying to tackle and do too much at once with the story.

If they can’t dedicate enough time to start and finish a plot thread then they shouldn’t bother trying to bring it up at all. I don’t think Anet does a good job with trying to make cliffhangers and they need to stop. I feel like they’re losing audience retention with the way they try to do cliffhangers.

At least that’s what happened with me with regards to Zojja’s condition after HoT. :\

inb4 people start quoting the hearsay from Ep 1 of LWS3 as evidence when hearsay is not reliable evidence

GW2 will never be able to match the depth, complexity, and agency of CRPGS like Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Baulder’s Gate, etc. I’m not slamming the writers, either: it’s just too much for an MMO to take in unless it is centered on roleplaying (Ultima Online). I liken the story to watching the Power Rangers show while the game is buying the toys and hanging with your friends.

Makai.3429:

GW2 will never be able to match the depth, complexity, and agency of CRPGS like Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Baulder’s Gate, etc. I’m not slamming the writers, either: it’s just too much for an MMO to take in unless it is centered on roleplaying (Ultima Online). I liken the story to watching the Power Rangers show while the game is buying the toys and hanging with your friends.

I do partly agree with this, although Secret World has done it exceptionally well. That is partly because it tells a story indirectly, which builds towards a greater narrative and partly because horror works better that way.

What GW2 does exceptionally well, is in the open world stories. Verdant Brink is a great example as are most of the LS3 maps. There are also some brilliant map stories throughout the core maps as well. Here the writers are able to let themselves go a lot more and fantasy is much better suited to short, concise stories as well, rather than the bloated episodic, serial style it has (as a genre) devolved sadly into.

Whilst the writers get a huge amount of flak for the central story, often justifiably, they get nowhere near enough credit for the vastly superior map stories they create.

Randulf.7614:

Makai.3429:

GW2 will never be able to match the depth, complexity, and agency of CRPGS like Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Baulder’s Gate, etc. I’m not slamming the writers, either: it’s just too much for an MMO to take in unless it is centered on roleplaying (Ultima Online). I liken the story to watching the Power Rangers show while the game is buying the toys and hanging with your friends.

I do partly agree with this, although Secret World has done it exceptionally well. That is partly because it tells a story indirectly, which builds towards a greater narrative and partly because horror works better that way.

What GW2 does exceptionally well, is in the open world stories. Verdant Brink is a great example as are most of the LS3 maps. There are also some brilliant map stories throughout the core maps as well. Here the writers are able to let themselves go a lot more and fantasy is much better suited to short, concise stories as well, rather than the bloated episodic, serial style it has (as a genre) devolved sadly into.

Whilst the writers get a huge amount of flak for the central story, often justifiably, they get nowhere near enough credit for the vastly superior map stories they create.

I agree with you on that. I’ve always found the world building and personality of the game much more intriguing and engaging than the feature storyline.

Randulf.7614:

Makai.3429:

GW2 will never be able to match the depth, complexity, and agency of CRPGS like Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Baulder’s Gate, etc. I’m not slamming the writers, either: it’s just too much for an MMO to take in unless it is centered on roleplaying (Ultima Online). I liken the story to watching the Power Rangers show while the game is buying the toys and hanging with your friends.

I do partly agree with this, although Secret World has done it exceptionally well. That is partly because it tells a story indirectly, which builds towards a greater narrative and partly because horror works better that way.

What GW2 does exceptionally well, is in the open world stories. Verdant Brink is a great example as are most of the LS3 maps. There are also some brilliant map stories throughout the core maps as well. Here the writers are able to let themselves go a lot more and fantasy is much better suited to short, concise stories as well, rather than the bloated episodic, serial style it has (as a genre) devolved sadly into.

Whilst the writers get a huge amount of flak for the central story, often justifiably, they get nowhere near enough credit for the vastly superior map stories they create.

I fall a little in between. I have enjoyed both the main story line in Vanilla GW2 (still bitter over Sieran being replaced thou) and HoT as well as the map stories in LW3. The story telling is what has brought me back to playing GW2 and I definitely want Arena Net to continue.

I also like where the story is going, the execution is weak, though.

LS3, although I’m at the end of chapter 3, feels too short. They crammed way too much story together into a small timeframe. I’d like more development, more time.

Also, I do NOT like the way my character is going. My asura should NOT be dumbfounded by every invention Taimi makes (as much as I love Taimi).

My asura, she’s extremely intelligent (as shown in my fan story in my sig, and it’s only going to get better with the revisions). Later, she starts to invent things which makes her thief skills way OP. First, she invents a device (which is being worked on at the beginning of Chapter 1), which turns her invisible, called the Savant CD-100. The device has mana in it which is drained while it’s on, when it runs out of mana, the device automatically shuts off. The device also cloaks her heat signature, making her harder to find (good luck, Samus. Your Thermal Visor is useless!)

Other devices she makes: Dagger S.TO.R.M. (because, can you really realistically throw that many daggers?), which stands for “Storage of Tactical Object Rapid Manipulation.” (My guildie came up with that phrase). This offensive device has mana stored in it, in which my asura can produce mass daggers. She can either spin, or unload all the daggers on a single target.

Then, she makes a device much later, which, when activated, slows down her down when falling. Basically like Feather Fall from DnD.

Then, there’s a device which she doesn’t make until after the story, tentatively called the IMS (Industrial Magiteck Scanner) which is like Prime Samus’s Scan Visor—gives info on the target, race, gender, weaknesses, etc. It also allows Vini (my asura’s name) to scan objects.

Basically, she’s NOT DUMB. I was offended in LS2 when she had to put together an Inquest Device and one of the choices was “Instructions are for chumps.” … She wouldn’t say that.

I just feel like my PC is being dumbed down more and more.

Each race has 2 VAs (one for each sex), and yet every single one of them uses the SAME dialogue. Why? Why can’t we have them say different things? Each VA could make each race and each sex of each race say something different and say something they might say! A little more resource intensive, but Anet has the basic resources to do that!

It’s just so frustrating… I really want Vini to be Vini, or at least close enough to her.

AegisRunestone.8672:

I just feel like my PC is being dumbed down more and more.

It’s because you PC is not yours anymore. Now only writers decide your personality and responses. Pretty much what happened to Fallout 4.

jokke.6239:

It’s also really great that our characters actually speaks, it made me much more immersed into the story.

This. So much this. I also like that our character is not as one-dimensional as in other games, basically any other MMORPG. I GW2, you are often the center. In FF14, it revolves around other guys and you are just some dumb stooge for the actual NPC protagonists. I just like how my Asura commands around a squad of totally different personalities. And yet, I really liked how it turned out. There were no cringy moments about “my” decisions like in other games. ArenaNet really manages to get a very well balance done.

Also, thank you, ArenaNet, to hire a certain translation studio which in return hired Patrick Bach to voice the male German Asura NPC. I love that dude’s voice!

Excelsior.

Randulf.7614:

The dialogue, the presentation, the overall tone has vastly improved since core days.

(cough cough cough) I almost choked on my dinner.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

AegisRunestone.8672:

I just feel like my PC is being dumbed down more and more.

It’s because you PC is not yours anymore. Now only writers decide your personality and responses. Pretty much what happened to Fallout 4.

While I have absolutely no qualms with FO4 (I love the game for what it is, and it is my first Fallout game to be honest), this is 100% how I feel about GW2 post-Personal Story. I already outlined in a previous post about how one of my biggest gripes is that my character’s personality, no matter the race, gender, or class, is forced down my throat. It’s especially jarring when the character goes between being, as said above, “stupid”, to knowing about people, places, and events I have never heard of before in my life due to never playing GW1.

And I could easily go on an angry rant about how the writers made my characters act towards Caithe. JFC….

The story has improved a lot, the tone is much better and the dialogue is excellent, at least compared to core.

The one thing I dislike is how the commander has only one set of dialogue, I wish in the future they would add multiple options for the player to select based on how -they- want the commander to respond to.

The second part I dislike is how amazing some parts of the story look for one race, but awkward for another one. It doesn’t matter how special the commander is, a non-human entering the shinning blade is a big no-no. That story part looks excellent for a human, but not for any other race. Same goes with the entire Balthazar situation.

According to an interview with MO, the expansion Path of Fire will answer many human-based questions, which is something I’d love to see, but I wonder how the other races will be affected by all those answers. It’s like Heart of Thorns was perfect for Sylvari, and now Path of Fire will be perfect for Humans.

We’ll get a Norn, an Asuran and a Charr expansion next?