Guild Wars 2

The problem with making boss fight too easy is that it WILL affect your perception of the story. For many players the story bosses are already a walk in the park. When I killed the last boss of the LW S3E6 (won’t spoil the name) I kinda felt like, that’s it? this guy is supposed to be super powerful and I just beat him without trying…
Making the boss fights even easier to accommodate “bad” players will ruin the experience for “good” players.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Sure, there will be some people who are too embarrassed to admit they’re having trouble. However, you are VASTly underestimating the fact that people are very likely to squawk if they think a product is cheating them. Ask anyone who works in retail.

The people finding the game too difficult are far more likely to be casual players, most of which are simply going to play the game without ever visiting the forums or other outside resources. You won’t see many of them complaining, since they’ll simply stop playing.

Most people do likely have trouble with the story, as in dying several times. ArenaNet would know. The amount incapable of finishing however is likely miniscule, otherwise ArenaNet would have done something, like how PoF is looking to be easier.

JMaarse.7086:

Making the boss fights even easier to accommodate “bad” players will ruin the experience for “good” players.

Making the story easier would have no impact on the normal difficulty and it would take minimal effort to implement. They already let groups trivialize it, so it shouldn’t even matter. Simply give players a stacking damage reduction after a few deaths.

Actually, making an easy mode could potentially make it more challenging. Some people call the game easy even though they regularly die, because they simply death rush the boss. Stop allowing that and give an achievement for completing the story normally while solo. Easy mode could be as simple as an option at the start for a 90% damage reduction.

Ashivan.5216:

Vayne.8563:

Nope I’m not arguing a lot of people want easier tstory missions. If there are 12 guys posting again and again and again, it looks like a lot of guys though. The loudest voices aren’t always the most numerous anyway. You’re just assuming that’s what I’m saying.

I didn’t want to continue arguing about this as it’s quite pointless. Just wanted to address this ‘only 12 guys’ thing.

The reason you don’t see a lot of posts is: part of the solo players frustrated with some annoying missions moved on (from the game or from doing those mission) and some of them will not post this as the forum responses can become quite toxic: lazy, just bad, playing with the monitor turned off… and so on.

So those ‘12 guys’ will be the people that do stick around and just raise this concern. It is a valid issue for the more casual players. How would you feel if the situation would have been reversed: the new PvE content really easy and the forums response will be to play PvP/WvW for difficult content or just move one to another game.

And the reason you don’t see happy players post is because they don’t have a problem and there are many of those too. I’m honestly stunned that so many people would rather defend their right to not get better at the game than take the steps to get better I say this all the time and it’s true. It’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

Throwing together skills and traits you like is one way to play the game, but it’s not necessarily the way to get past bosses in stories. I don’t believe these solo players mostly can’t beat bosses solo. I believe they want to play each boss the way they’ve always played without adapting. However, adapting is part of the game. Refusing to adapt is not playing the game.

I can’t tell you how many casual players in my guild can solo story instances. And it’s a really casual guild.

There are always going to be people who leave any game because it’s too hard, or too easy. Saying that people who left aren’t posting because they left this isn’t always true, because some people who claim to have left still post here. However, there were also a lot of people who left when the game was too easy and they came by to say so. For a lot of people this game was too boring before HoT.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t hold everyone’s attention on time and in budget. You have to decide a baseline and catch as much of the middle as you can. That means making it too easy for the best people and too hard for others. That’s normal for any game, not something special to this one.

So the question isn’t whether George left the game because he found the game too hard. The question is how many Georges are there. I don’t know the answer to that question. I’m guessing you probably can’t answer it either.

I’m assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of solo instances never played video games in the 80’s and 90’s…

JohnnyJHB.7360:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of solo instances never played video games in the 80’s and 90’s…

This made me laugh, but it’s true, games used to be much less forgiving.

The real issue here is that there’s no such an option for achievements only.

They did Great in draconis mons with the volcano part.
You enter. Chose to skip directly to the achievement and gg. You play trying to do the achievement and no other timesink activities.

It should be like this everywhere.
Redo an instance or dungeon is more like a corpse run.

Vayne.8563:

JohnnyJHB.7360:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of solo instances never played video games in the 80’s and 90’s…

This made me laugh, but it’s true, games used to be much less forgiving.

Mostly because most kids were only able to afford one game every month, so they had to last.

Then the gaming industry grew out of that. As did most of the players. Most of them are too old now to play such games, what with eyesight and reaction times getting poorer with every passing year.

GW is notable for being solo-friendly, a rarity among non-kiddy MMORPGs. Would be a shame to see it become yet another generic MMO, there’s more than enough of those already. But that’s probably unavoidable, since casual players rarely visit forums or otherwise voice their opinions.

Not sure if it’s actually that hard or if it was simply because I was playing a class that I haven’t played in a long while, but PoF story opening completely murdered me, over and over. Gonna feel bad for newbies who boost to level 80, and think they can cope there.

Zaltys.7649:

Gonna feel bad for newbies who boost to level 80, and think they can cope there.

Honestly, they will get what they deserve if they do that.

Rauderi.8706:

Personally, while I found some of the story instances kind of obnoxious, it doesn’t mean we as players should be able to roll them without defeat. It’s possible to respawn and dive back into a fight until it’s over. It’s uncomfortable, and it sucks, but there shouldn’t be a situation where a player can’t complete the story at all.

One thing I just LOVED seeing in the instance before the expansion was an anvil. I hope that was not a fluke as in S3 it was not unusual for me to end up with every piece of armor broken.

Djinn.9245:

Ashivan.5216:

The reason you don’t see a lot of posts is: part of the solo players frustrated with some annoying missions moved on (from the game or from doing those mission) and some of them will not post this as the forum responses can become quite toxic: lazy, just bad, playing with the monitor turned off… and so on.

Most of the hardcore players on this forum are EXTREMELY lacking in empathy or they wouldn’t say that type of thing in the first place. And it takes empathy to understand that the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it. Look at the running joke about men not asking for directions.

People claiming that a small number of players admitting to having trouble on the forums means that only a small number of players are actually having trouble are themselves having trouble in the logic department.

I died one time in an extremely dark area and joked that I should not try doing that again. Asked to elaborate on the problem I explained it was not good if you had low vision to fight in the dark (I just had lousy night vision but did not explain that). Basically the response was ‘get gud’ …. I did not even know how to reply.

Zaltys.7649:

Vayne.8563:

JohnnyJHB.7360:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of solo instances never played video games in the 80’s and 90’s…

This made me laugh, but it’s true, games used to be much less forgiving.

Mostly because most kids were only able to afford one game every month, so they had to last.

Then the gaming industry grew out of that. As did most of the players. Most of them are too old now to play such games, what with eyesight and reaction times getting poorer with every passing year.

GW is notable for being solo-friendly, a rarity among non-kiddy MMORPGs. Would be a shame to see it become yet another generic MMO, there’s more than enough of those already. But that’s probably unavoidable, since casual players rarely visit forums or otherwise voice their opinions.

Not sure if it’s actually that hard or if it was simply because I was playing a class that I haven’t played in a long while, but PoF story opening completely murdered me, over and over. Gonna feel bad for newbies who boost to level 80, and think they can cope there.

This and in fact was going to post something similar. My hand-eye has deteriorated over the years with the emphasis on eye. I used to do IK+ pretty OK when it reached mental speeds, Nemesis when it got hard and I could even dock without a docking computer in Elite. Could I do this now? Pretty sure that’s a big fat no.

I do find the story/stories difficult in placed which is when frustration kicks in and I give up. Spare a thought for the filthy casual old timer

I’ve switched sides. I’m all for making this easier so I can get thru this story much, mucg faster as I don’t care about it at all. If it’s still relatively the same time to complete them I would like some what of a challenge. It’s like they need a story story mode that removes se or all the combat.

JohnnyJHB.7360:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of solo instances never played video games in the 80’s and 90’s…

Up the hill, in the snow, both ways.

Born in the dark ages of game design theory, a wild west of anything-goes pixels.

Yeah, I remember that time. I’ve also grown along with the game industry, and it comes with the realization that games can be better than they were.

..then again, I’m also not overgeneralizing a complaint about the difficulty, so maybe that doesn’t apply to me. :P

ANet has demonstrated in the past that they track a lot of data (I remember in the one-year anniversary blog seeing that Risen Thralls had caused the most defeats). Whether changes need to be made might be determined by stuff like:

• 65% of players complete story instance X with no defeats; 25% complete it with 1 defeat; 8% complete it with multiple defeats and 2% fail to complete it after multiple defeats.

or

• 15% of players complete story instance X with no defeats; 23% complete it with one defeat; 27% complete it with multiple defeats; and 35% fail to complete it after multiple defeats.

I’d be inclined to decide, were I in charge, that the former scenario is acceptable, but the latter isn’t.

I’ve done them all solo since game launch.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet has demonstrated in the past that they track a lot of data (I remember in the one-year anniversary blog seeing that Risen Thralls had caused the most defeats). Whether changes need to be made might be determined by stuff like:

• 65% of players complete story instance X with no defeats; 25% complete it with 1 defeat; 8% complete it with multiple defeats and 2% fail to complete it after multiple defeats.

or

• 15% of players complete story instance X with no defeats; 23% complete it with one defeat; 27% complete it with multiple defeats; and 35% fail to complete it after multiple defeats.

I’d be inclined to decide, were I in charge, that the former scenario is acceptable, but the latter isn’t.

You would normally take the completion total across the series of story instances. HoT threw several blocks along the way involving masteries at first. Grinding out masteries is more tedious than hard so does not fit this topic. However, there is a huge difficulty / bug spike at Hearts and Minds as well. I would be interesting in seeing what % of players have completed that one.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet has demonstrated in the past that they track a lot of data (I remember in the one-year anniversary blog seeing that Risen Thralls had caused the most defeats).

Indeed they do. And they respond to the data with their future content.

alceste.8712:

However, there is a huge difficulty / bug spike at Hearts and Minds as well. I would be interesting in seeing what % of players have completed that one.

The spike in difficulty for the final instance is likely expected, it’s the final instance after all. And besides the hardest part of Hearts and Minds were the bugs, and missing the updrafts. Was it that much more difficulty than the World Summit boss? Or the Mysterious Cave boss? They were both Shadow of the Dragon “bosses” and both from LS2.

I think the greatest problem with the difficulty is how they allow players to skip important content. For example, should they make the PoF story appropriate for players who will use their booster and enter PoF without even playing the core game? That would make the content for everyone who did go through the rest of the game way too easy. There is a line you must draw and expect the player to have done prior content, and have experience in playing the game, before entering future content.

I’ve waited 5 years to finish both The Core and HoT. And I have to say it’s not as horrible as when they first came out.

Victory or Death: Finished it on my 2nd try. I had some random helpful player just help me out throwing those fireballs at the fat boss with the vortex. After that, the rest was easy.

HoT: Solo’ed this with my Reaper…didn’t die once. Thanks you “Rise”.

Lake Doric: This episode was the only one I’ve finished so far. I would have to say if this is the hardest one, then I’m looking forward to completing the rest of the Episodes. In my 5 years of playing this game, I’ve never died that many times that I lost my pants. I defeated Caudecus in my panties. >.>

I still haven’t beaten the HOT final instance on my Ele as you have to fight those horrible bosses before Mordy and my Ele breaks like an egg

I did all the content with a zerk thief, which has zero sustain. If some parts are hard to deal with, cosider to change traits at least.
And maybe a mixed equipment too.

I Thought we were talking about achies, but if the argument is just completing the story then, and I do mean no disrespect, it seems like a bad Joke to me.

Can’t complete personale story.
Really? Wat.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

And it takes empathy to understand that the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it. Look at the running joke about men not asking for directions.

Sure, there will be some people who are too embarrassed to admit they’re having trouble. However, you are VASTly underestimating the fact that people are very likely to squawk if they think a product is cheating them. Ask anyone who works in retail.

I understand that you are addressing the OP, but imo there is a pretty big difference between “unfair” as in

Story missions, especially those with bosses, are way too hard or unfair for solo players

, and thinking that they are actually being cheated.

No, I was addressing you. Specifically, I was offering a counter to your contention that there is a vast silent demographic that is having trouble and not saying anything about it. A lot of people consider themselves to have been cheated if there is a reason they cannot complete a game. As soon as they start thinking the game is unfair, they start thinking that it was not worth the money. From there to cheated is just one less rational step that’s all too easy.

Interesting, I wouldn’t have guessed that you were replying to me as you were talking about “being cheated” which I never said or implied. I also don’t see, nor agree with your logic-leap.

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

I do not want GW2 to be like a lot of other games.

JMaarse.7086:

The problem with making boss fight too easy is that it WILL affect your perception of the story. For many players the story bosses are already a walk in the park. When I killed the last boss of the LW S3E6 (won’t spoil the name) I kinda felt like, that’s it? this guy is supposed to be super powerful and I just beat him without trying…
Making the boss fights even easier to accommodate “bad” players will ruin the experience for “good” players.

Boss fights already challenge immersion for me. The majority of the bosses we fight have been significant threats to the entire world for long periods of time. For the dragons they have driven off entire civilizations for centuries, making them move their homes or die. For more mortal characters, they still haven’t been able to be beaten by anyone for long periods of time. Then our character comes along and defeats them. Sorry, but I’m not buying this stuff already.

But unlike the OP, I wouldn’t suggest a nerf. I would suggest a story mode where you get a completion and are able to experience the story but save the reward (skin, etc.) for the regular mode. This would actually benefit both the hardcore players and the more casual players: a lot of hardcore players have complained that the boss fights are already too easy (as you have). This is often because the original fight was nerfed which would not have to be done if there was an easy mode.

See, what I think it really happening (and this is totally my personal read of the situation) is there was an influx of new players boosting to play the new HoT content with absolutely no idea how the combat really ran and went to the areas of the game that were made specifically for people who have been playing multiple classes for a few years now. Maybe they played some of the core game story content before jumping in to HoT and LS stuff, but they certainly didn’t know the ins and outs of combat like vet players and then tried to solo the newer stuff and paid a high price for it.

I just can’t see someone who is a vet player of GW2, who has played the core game content (maps, stories, dungeons, etc) and then going into HoT and being surprised by much of anything, and certainly not from any of the LWS stuff that came out. I really hate the “L2P” argument because it seems so dismissive, but honestly this is an instance of people needing to slow down a touch and learn the mechanics of their chosen class(es) and trying out the story step once or twice to learn how the bosses might work. Is it hard to solo stuff sometimes? Sure, since it is an MMO. Its definitely not impossible and should not be tweaked downward.

Ashivan.5216:

Vayne.8563:

Nope I’m not arguing a lot of people want easier tstory missions. If there are 12 guys posting again and again and again, it looks like a lot of guys though. The loudest voices aren’t always the most numerous anyway. You’re just assuming that’s what I’m saying.

I didn’t want to continue arguing about this as it’s quite pointless. Just wanted to address this ‘only 12 guys’ thing.

The reason you don’t see a lot of posts is: part of the solo players frustrated with some annoying missions moved on (from the game or from doing those mission) and some of them will not post this as the forum responses can become quite toxic: lazy, just bad, playing with the monitor turned off… and so on.

So those ‘12 guys’ will be the people that do stick around and just raise this concern. It is a valid issue for the more casual players. How would you feel if the situation would have been reversed: the new PvE content really easy and the forums response will be to play PvP/WvW for difficult content or just move one to another game.

At what point should the training wheels come off?
Considering the current content has already been made easy for players like you and easier for players like me. You just have not seen it or have experience the difference.

More than enough folks have made valid points regarding the challenges you face.

Last time I check you and I are already given the same tools in game. Some of us just execute them better or get their faster than others regardless of how long you have been playing Casually or Not.

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

And it takes empathy to understand that the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it. Look at the running joke about men not asking for directions.

Sure, there will be some people who are too embarrassed to admit they’re having trouble. However, you are VASTly underestimating the fact that people are very likely to squawk if they think a product is cheating them. Ask anyone who works in retail.

I understand that you are addressing the OP, but imo there is a pretty big difference between “unfair” as in

Story missions, especially those with bosses, are way too hard or unfair for solo players

, and thinking that they are actually being cheated.

No, I was addressing you. Specifically, I was offering a counter to your contention that there is a vast silent demographic that is having trouble and not saying anything about it. A lot of people consider themselves to have been cheated if there is a reason they cannot complete a game. As soon as they start thinking the game is unfair, they start thinking that it was not worth the money. From there to cheated is just one less rational step that’s all too easy.

Interesting, I wouldn’t have guessed that you were replying to me as you were talking about “being cheated” which I never said or implied. I also don’t see, nor agree with your logic-leap.

“Cheated” was offered as a motivation for player complaints, not something you said. The logic leap might even be a stretch. However, that does not change my opinion that a vast number of those who have difficulty will complain rather than remain silent. Psychologically, some will think it isn’t worth their time to complain. Others complain loudly and at length anytime they think anything is wrong with their purchase. Some will, some won’t.

Neither of us know percentages. ANet might. Maybe there aren’t vast numbers having trouble?

Djinn.9245:

But unlike the OP, I wouldn’t suggest a nerf. I would suggest a story mode where you get a completion and are able to experience the story but save the reward (skin, etc.) for the regular mode. This would actually benefit both the hardcore players and the more casual players: a lot of hardcore players have complained that the boss fights are already too easy (as you have). This is often because the original fight was nerfed which would not have to be done if there was an easy mode.

And what about average players who think the story bosses fights are fine as they are right now?

Haishao.6851:

Djinn.9245:

But unlike the OP, I wouldn’t suggest a nerf. I would suggest a story mode where you get a completion and are able to experience the story but save the reward (skin, etc.) for the regular mode. This would actually benefit both the hardcore players and the more casual players: a lot of hardcore players have complained that the boss fights are already too easy (as you have). This is often because the original fight was nerfed which would not have to be done if there was an easy mode.

And what about average players who think the story bosses fights are fine as they are right now?

They, like me, will then do ‘normal mode’

Story mode: easy mode, only dialogue, no rewards
Normal mode: as they are now
Hard mode: 5 man raids, disabled cutscenes/dialogues

I think the difficulty for solo players goes hand in hand with the class you play and how some mechniks are tuned. I played necro for a long time and srsly, there was nothing what can really stop me or can’t ge bursted down as valkyrie reaper or dotted to death while camping behind a wall of minions as condibuild. Also thanks to the shroud i’ve often ignore some mechaniks.

Now i tried out other classes because i get sickly bored of my necro. Finsihed the final epidode of LS2 and Lake Doric with my mesmer today and it was really awfull to do this. Sure i’m not the best player on the mesmer but in most of the Dungeons/Fractals/Openworldthings i do, i play the mesmer facetanking in close combat and survive most of the time, even without a downstat.
But the shadow of the dragon and caudecus drives me mad. Now i will try out the same as guardian. For me as a mostly solo playing guy, it’s an absolutly decisive factor for my class choice, if i can do the story parts solo and without getting totally stressed and frustraded.
I play to relaxe wich is working pretty good for me if i’m running open world, doing some dungeons or T1-T3 fractals with guildmates.
But when i do story beginning with LS2 going onwards to HoT and now LS3 it feels the difficulty is totaly overtuned compared to the most part of the game, also some mechniks are.
So hopfully the guard will work better within these storythings. Necro seems no choice for me at the moment.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

And it takes empathy to understand that the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it. Look at the running joke about men not asking for directions.

Sure, there will be some people who are too embarrassed to admit they’re having trouble. However, you are VASTly underestimating the fact that people are very likely to squawk if they think a product is cheating them. Ask anyone who works in retail.

I understand that you are addressing the OP, but imo there is a pretty big difference between “unfair” as in

Story missions, especially those with bosses, are way too hard or unfair for solo players

, and thinking that they are actually being cheated.

No, I was addressing you. Specifically, I was offering a counter to your contention that there is a vast silent demographic that is having trouble and not saying anything about it. A lot of people consider themselves to have been cheated if there is a reason they cannot complete a game. As soon as they start thinking the game is unfair, they start thinking that it was not worth the money. From there to cheated is just one less rational step that’s all too easy.

Interesting, I wouldn’t have guessed that you were replying to me as you were talking about “being cheated” which I never said or implied. I also don’t see, nor agree with your logic-leap.

“Cheated” was offered as a motivation for player complaints, not something you said. The logic leap might even be a stretch. However, that does not change my opinion that a vast number of those who have difficulty will complain rather than remain silent. Psychologically, some will think it isn’t worth their time to complain. Others complain loudly and at length anytime they think anything is wrong with their purchase. Some will, some won’t.

Neither of us know percentages. ANet might. Maybe there aren’t vast numbers having trouble?

As I said, I don’t see the leap that someone who might think that the game is too difficult for them = they feel they are cheated. But you are obviously entitled to your opinion that people who find something too difficult for them will complain. I don’t see much evidence for that in the world, but perhaps I have missed it.

And I never said there were “vast numbers”, if you re-read my quote what I said was

the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it

Vayne.8563:

JohnnyJHB.7360:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of solo instances never played video games in the 80’s and 90’s…

This made me laugh, but it’s true, games used to be much less forgiving.

It would look exactly like this!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/CSMVxv_4UMU

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

And it takes empathy to understand that the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it. Look at the running joke about men not asking for directions.

Sure, there will be some people who are too embarrassed to admit they’re having trouble. However, you are VASTly underestimating the fact that people are very likely to squawk if they think a product is cheating them. Ask anyone who works in retail.

I understand that you are addressing the OP, but imo there is a pretty big difference between “unfair” as in

Story missions, especially those with bosses, are way too hard or unfair for solo players

, and thinking that they are actually being cheated.

No, I was addressing you. Specifically, I was offering a counter to your contention that there is a vast silent demographic that is having trouble and not saying anything about it. A lot of people consider themselves to have been cheated if there is a reason they cannot complete a game. As soon as they start thinking the game is unfair, they start thinking that it was not worth the money. From there to cheated is just one less rational step that’s all too easy.

Interesting, I wouldn’t have guessed that you were replying to me as you were talking about “being cheated” which I never said or implied. I also don’t see, nor agree with your logic-leap.

“Cheated” was offered as a motivation for player complaints, not something you said. The logic leap might even be a stretch. However, that does not change my opinion that a vast number of those who have difficulty will complain rather than remain silent. Psychologically, some will think it isn’t worth their time to complain. Others complain loudly and at length anytime they think anything is wrong with their purchase. Some will, some won’t.

Neither of us know percentages. ANet might. Maybe there aren’t vast numbers having trouble?

As I said, I don’t see the leap that someone who might think that the game is too difficult for them = they feel they are cheated. But you are obviously entitled to your opinion that people who find something too difficult for them will complain. I don’t see much evidence for that in the world, but perhaps I have missed it.

And I never said there were “vast numbers”, if you re-read my quote what I said was

the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it

vast: of very great quantity or expanse; immense

The use of the term vast to describe a majority certainly implies indisputable numbers such that no amount of edge cases being swayed the other way would reduce the majority below half. Those are numbers you do not have, which makes the claim spurious.

Let’s face it, many who post here are trying to sway others (especially ANet) to their views. In that context, use of the phrase is a bald-faced attempt to sway opinion using a spurious claim. You even all-capped it.

I’m not going to fault you for trying to make a case. I can and do object to claims to know what other people who have not posted are thinking. A simple, “I believe that there have been many people who failed story missions due to difficulty but who have not complained.” would have made your point. It would also have avoided implications that you know things you cannot know.

I apologize for not recognizing that as the source of my reaction in the first place.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

And it takes empathy to understand that the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it. Look at the running joke about men not asking for directions.

Sure, there will be some people who are too embarrassed to admit they’re having trouble. However, you are VASTly underestimating the fact that people are very likely to squawk if they think a product is cheating them. Ask anyone who works in retail.

I understand that you are addressing the OP, but imo there is a pretty big difference between “unfair” as in

Story missions, especially those with bosses, are way too hard or unfair for solo players

, and thinking that they are actually being cheated.

No, I was addressing you. Specifically, I was offering a counter to your contention that there is a vast silent demographic that is having trouble and not saying anything about it. A lot of people consider themselves to have been cheated if there is a reason they cannot complete a game. As soon as they start thinking the game is unfair, they start thinking that it was not worth the money. From there to cheated is just one less rational step that’s all too easy.

Interesting, I wouldn’t have guessed that you were replying to me as you were talking about “being cheated” which I never said or implied. I also don’t see, nor agree with your logic-leap.

“Cheated” was offered as a motivation for player complaints, not something you said. The logic leap might even be a stretch. However, that does not change my opinion that a vast number of those who have difficulty will complain rather than remain silent. Psychologically, some will think it isn’t worth their time to complain. Others complain loudly and at length anytime they think anything is wrong with their purchase. Some will, some won’t.

Neither of us know percentages. ANet might. Maybe there aren’t vast numbers having trouble?

As I said, I don’t see the leap that someone who might think that the game is too difficult for them = they feel they are cheated. But you are obviously entitled to your opinion that people who find something too difficult for them will complain. I don’t see much evidence for that in the world, but perhaps I have missed it.

And I never said there were “vast numbers”, if you re-read my quote what I said was

the VAST majority of people having trouble in any situation are not going to admit it

vast: of very great quantity or expanse; immense

The use of the term vast to describe a majority certainly implies indisputable numbers such that no amount of edge cases being swayed the other way would reduce the majority below half. Those are numbers you do not have, which makes the claim spurious.

Let’s face it, many who post here are trying to sway others (especially ANet) to their views. In that context, use of the phrase is a bald-faced attempt to sway opinion using a spurious claim. You even all-capped it.

I’m not going to fault you for trying to make a case. I can and do object to claims to know what other people who have not posted are thinking. A simple, “I believe that there have been many people who failed story missions due to difficulty but who have not complained.” would have made your point. It would also have avoided implications that you know things you cannot know.

I apologize for not recognizing that as the source of my reaction in the first place.

The vast majority of 10 people does not equal vast numbers of people. You stated that I was trying to claim there were vast numbers of people who were having trouble. When I correct you, you switch to another thing to pick at.

It is true that I don’t know what number of the people who have trouble with story boss fights don’t want to admit it. I am only going on my world experience that very few people will volunteer that they are unable to do a thing – especially in front of a group of strangers.

And of course I am not trying to make up numbers – I am perfectly aware that Anet knows exactly how many people have failed boss fights and exactly how many times. You can look at my many posts in which I state that only Anet knows this type of fact about the game.