Guild Wars 2

Anet assumed alot of people would be playing in them.

Little did they know people like to be rewarded for their time. =p

Why do these zones when you could farm in Cursed Shore?

Why farm events period if you don’t want/need the karma?

All the money you make is from tagging mobs in aoe mob spam events which was a terrible idea.

Carter.3865:

And as for getting more skill, Well I’ve got all my skills but in certain parts when your 4 or 5 mobs against you, you just rely on luck.

Last night I soloed 5-6 mobs at the same time. Much to my surprise. Go me!

…but doing so didn’t make further travel any easier. Once I took them all down, there were already one or two more on their way to continue the engagement.

That’s the problem, as I see it: the high probability of an endless combat loop.

There’s no real extra challenge in that. If I can defeat 1-3 mobs the first time, then I can defeat them the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th time as well. The scenario doesn’t get more difficult. It does get more exasperating, though.

There are other things I want to do, things I want to look at and explore, events I want to get to. But it reaches a point where the endless aggro actually prevents me from experiencing anything else in the zone.

I call that a design flaw.

Knote.2904:

Anet assumed alot of people would be playing in them.

Little did they know people like to be rewarded for their time. =p

Why do these zones when you could farm in Cursed Shore?

Why farm events period if you don’t want/need the karma?

All the money you make is from tagging mobs in aoe mob spam events which was a terrible idea.

I don’t know why people keep posting things like this. Do you really think the majority of players farm jack squat? Because they don’t. That’s why in every MMO since the history of ever only a small number of people ever have the top end stuff. Because the vast majority don’t have the patience or the OCD to sit and repeat the same couple actions over and over.

People don’t play the zones over and over because they’re not fun to play over and over. Nothing more, nothing less. The events are fun enough to do a few times while leveling, but once you’re past them, there’s no real reason to ever go back.

Black Regent.5897:

Knote.2904:

Anet assumed alot of people would be playing in them.

Little did they know people like to be rewarded for their time. =p

Why do these zones when you could farm in Cursed Shore?

Why farm events period if you don’t want/need the karma?

All the money you make is from tagging mobs in aoe mob spam events which was a terrible idea.

I don’t know why people keep posting things like this. Do you really think the majority of players farm jack squat? Because they don’t. That’s why in every MMO since the history of ever only a small number of people ever have the top end stuff. Because the vast majority don’t have the patience or the OCD to sit and repeat the same couple actions over and over.

People don’t play the zones over and over because they’re not fun to play over and over. Nothing more, nothing less. The events are fun enough to do a few times while leveling, but once you’re past them, there’s no real reason to ever go back.

Yes, the majority technically does farm, I guess that depends on what your definition of farm is. Sitting there for 10 hours doing the same thing over and over isn’t what I’m talking about.

And still, rewards play a HUUUUUUGE part in what people are encouraged to do or not do.

I think it might be actually be fun to go around in a party and do some of these events assuming they’re challenging enough.

But you’re not wrong, same reason the old zones are empty, they’re not fun to repeat, the events aren’t anything special and are like any other event in the game, THEN on top of that aren’t as rewarding, thus no players.

Either something needs to be fun enough or rewarding enough for people to do it.

Plinx definately isn’t fun, yet ton of people did it constantly because it was the easiest/fastest way to grind your karma out.

Carter, you’ve got another really good point there: The respawn rates are about a 10th of what they should be. Once you clear a small area, it should STAY clear. Especially when battles against veterans are simply a matter of slogging through their enormous hit point count. I’ve had the other spawns reappear 5 times in one location while I was still fighting the veteran. That’s rediculous. And, as you say, not fun at all.

I don’t mind grinding to get numerically better armor. But, having to grind just to make it through a single opponent is stupid design.

Hydrophidian.4319:

… There’s no real extra challenge in that. If I can defeat 1-3 mobs the first time, then I can defeat them the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th time as well. The scenario doesn’t get more difficult. It does get more exasperating, though.

There are other things I want to do, things I want to look at and explore, events I want to get to. But it reaches a point where the endless aggro actually prevents me from experiencing anything else in the zone.

I call that a design flaw.

This makes my point better than I did (I should have read ahead before replying). I found it insanely tedious.

Agree. Ok, there has to be respawns for other players to kill but they shouldn’t be about 30 secs to 1 min apart.
Another example, I actually got teamed up with another player and we went for a paticular Skill Point down at some dead end. So we had me, a Ranger and him, an Engineer, both 80. We killed the mobs and then went to get the skill point. In the middle of communing the mobs respawned
We managed to get the skill point and started to fight our way out but to no avail, wave after wave of respawns came and we must have killed them about 6 times, as someone said we could do it all day but then boredom kicks in and concentration goes and one dies. I see no fun in being stuck in one place for ages just killing the same mobs respawning over and over again.

Carter.3865:

It is not challenging at all.
It’s impossible to survive.

Many people have survived and already proved you wrong.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Carter.3865:

And as for getting more skill, Well I’ve got all my skills but in certain parts when your 4 or 5 mobs against you, you just rely on luck.

Last night I soloed 5-6 mobs at the same time. Much to my surprise. Go me!

…but doing so didn’t make further travel any easier. Once I took them all down, there were already one or two more on their way to continue the engagement.

That’s the problem, as I see it: the high probability of an endless combat loop.

There’s no real extra challenge in that. If I can defeat 1-3 mobs the first time, then I can defeat them the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th time as well. The scenario doesn’t get more difficult. It does get more exasperating, though.

There are other things I want to do, things I want to look at and explore, events I want to get to. But it reaches a point where the endless aggro actually prevents me from experiencing anything else in the zone.

I call that a design flaw.

A flaw would entail that it was unintended..I think its completely intended. I look at it like one of those zombie apocalypse movies..you cant be seen..you cant stop, you are not in charge and you are not the top of the food chain. I like it for a brief time..then it does get old, I just leave the area when the feeling becomes monotony.

Carter.3865:

Agree. Ok, there has to be respawns for other players to kill but they shouldn’t be about 30 secs to 1 min apart.
Another example, I actually got teamed up with another player and we went for a paticular Skill Point down at some dead end. So we had me, a Ranger and him, an Engineer, both 80. We killed the mobs and then went to get the skill point. In the middle of communing the mobs respawned
We managed to get the skill point and started to fight our way out but to no avail, wave after wave of respawns came and we must have killed them about 6 times, as someone said we could do it all day but then boredom kicks in and concentration goes and one dies. I see no fun in being stuck in one place for ages just killing the same mobs respawning over and over again.

get some ash legion spy kits..will save you a lot of hassle with skill points

It seems to me that even if you did complete all the events up to a point to unlock the events in the proceeding zones all the way to the gates of Arah, they would all reset in an hour.

Apparently these events will reset after 10 minutes to an hour from what I am seeing. It doesn’t seem long lasting enough, and on top of that various events are bugged.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Let’s get this outta the way right off the top: tedious is not synonymous with challenging. That’s a conflation a lot of gamer folk seem to routinely make.

I experienced a high level of tedium while trying to navigate Orr. Which is to say not play in Orr, but move around in Orr and get to the parts I actually wanted to play in.

I didn’t find the challenge of the zones to be all that extreme. But getting anywhere was a footslog. It was not remotely enjoyable in most cases, which is key.

Teaming with others mitigated but did not negate this issue. One is able to move through the terrain quicker with a party, but the tedious process of doing so is still there. Also, the mob density tends to put a harsher light on existing mechanical/system bugs/shortcomings. Such as, for example, the clunkiness of targeting, and the number of problems and bugs associated with underwater combat.

I found the design of Malchor’s Leap to be particularly poor. Many elements of its layout seem to have no purpose other than to waste a player’s time. That’s bad. Also, there are holes in its geometry, nonsensical placement of invisible barriers, and many spots where the terrain just seems slapdash. In short, it’s not hard to get stuck in the zone… which is also bad.

Cursed Shore, on the other hand, is, I think, the least offensive. One can get around a lot of places by being cautious and sneaky. I happen to like that, and I believe it’s the way all three zones should’ve been developed from the start.

Make situational and environmental awareness matter; create “invisible” paths of cover and concealment throughout the landscape, that no one will find unless they’re paying attention. ’Cuz that would actually be a challenge. Not unlike a giant puzzle.

Cursed Shore seems to have the lion’s share of this, with the Straits making up the difference (the Leap just appears to have a spawnpoint shoved in every nook and cranny), but I don’t have the sense that this dynamic was ever a concerted design effort.

I’d like to see the zones tweaked in this direction, and future “hazard area” zones of this type created with “giant navigational puzzle” in mind. The world is supposed to be immersive. Making terrain matter in this way would contribute to that, as well as appeal to the tactically-minded. It’d also make exploration matter. Players attracted to that sort of thing (raises hand) could end up as guides.

I understand the concept underpinning Orr, that it’s a “warzone”, that it’s supposed to be hazardous. But I believe it’s possible to evoke such an atmosphere in a zone without it having to be a chore to explore it.

I’ve now completed the Orr zones, and I don’t have any particular inclination to go back to them. I’m not alone in this. I do think that’s a problem that should be avoided in the long-term, if not addressed in the short-term.

You said it perfectly. The thing is, even if Orr were full of players. So full you couldn’t walk one step without tripping over one or two of them, I still wouldn’t enjoy being there.

Ditton.3149:

Hydrophidian.4319:

There are other things I want to do, things I want to look at and explore, events I want to get to. But it reaches a point where the endless aggro actually prevents me from experiencing anything else in the zone.

I call that a design flaw.

A flaw would entail that it was unintended..I think its completely intended.

Yah, I don’t agree with that. I highly doubt it was intended for a single aspect of gameplay to be so tedious and overbearing, that it significantly detracts from the total experience of being in the zone (soloing, teaming, exploring, event participation, etc.).

I look at it like one of those zombie apocalypse movies..you cant be seen..you cant stop, you are not in charge and you are not the top of the food chain.

I think it’s possible to achieve that same dynamic and environment with much, much less tedium and frustration.

I like it for a brief time..then it does get old, I just leave the area when the feeling becomes monotony.

And that’s the design flaw right there. It’s a common reaction. I doubt it was the intended reaction.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Ditton.3149:

…
I like it for a brief time..then it does get old, I just leave the area when the feeling becomes monotony.

And that’s the design flaw right there. It’s a common reaction. I doubt it was the intended reaction.

Right.

The game plays the same in any zone. There are stories going on all over the place. One is down-leveled, so the excitement/risk factor is always there. If I play in Celadon or Straits, there are stories all over. And action.

The problem is that in Orr, there are three things working against fun:

1) The monsters are more difficult than in any other zone. I don’t mean level 80 difficult. I mean they are harder to kill. I take 2-5 swings to kill something in Caledon. I take 30-50 to kill something in Orr. So, it takes extra time.

2) The number of monsters is overwhelming. They are everywhere, and I mean EVERYwhere. They’re even in the towns. There’s no safe spot of any kind. So, #1 you take forever to kill them, and 2 you have to do it over and over again just to move.

3) The respawn rate is too high.

Put all those together and you get … tedium. Then boredom. And finally hatred. I know I need to go there to get the better stuff. But, I hate doing it, because it is such a dreary trip.

Now, go back to my first paragraph: In Caledon, I fight THROUGH the stories to get to other stories. There is a rich depth to it. The monsters are varied throughout.

But, in Orr, I fight merely to survive until I get to the spots with good stuff, only to find that I can’t get there in a fun way except by teleporting there. When I do, there is only one kind of monster to fight: Risen. The only stories even remotely interesting are the Cathedrals, but I can’t even consider tackling those without a huge party.

Add that all up, and what do I get? I hate it.

Red Falcon.8257:

Those zones are exactly what they said they would be: warzones, the land of Orr, where enemy presence is high (duh, it’s their base of operations) and walking alone isn’t recommended.

I love these Orr haters.
Orr is 800% easier than any lvl 20 zone in GW1 which we used to solo.
I’m sorry the new generation believes everything should be a pushover with no challenge whatsoever – GW2 already went downhill when it comes to presenting challenge, but it’s not enough it seems: it needs to be a complete walk in the park to make the new gen gamer happy, and difficulty should be present in dungeons only.

Yeah, no.

You need people to wage a war and there’s no war if everyone is sitting in LA to go down a hole to grind for an item.Lots of time I found myself unable to retake WP/Temple and the like because there’s no one around and it’s not fun.

this is a good area where anet could fix the confusion of events that never get completed. drop the timers and make them farming events. so people will go there to make money. for example make each zone specific to different rare or exotic crafting materials. this way there wont be any events being wasted and the price of materials will go down far enough to make money from crafting.

Increase rewards, add a few more interesting events, and it will bring people back. And then it will be a fine area. At the moment it’s a bit dead.

Daddicus.6128:

Hydrophidian.4319:

Ditton.3149:

…
I like it for a brief time..then it does get old, I just leave the area when the feeling becomes monotony.

And that’s the design flaw right there. It’s a common reaction. I doubt it was the intended reaction.

Right.

The game plays the same in any zone. There are stories going on all over the place. One is down-leveled, so the excitement/risk factor is always there. If I play in Celadon or Straits, there are stories all over. And action.

The problem is that in Orr, there are three things working against fun:

1) The monsters are more difficult than in any other zone. I don’t mean level 80 difficult. I mean they are harder to kill. I take 2-5 swings to kill something in Caledon. I take 30-50 to kill something in Orr. So, it takes extra time.

30-50 hits is a gross exageration. It takes me less than 10 seconds to kill a normal risen in cursed shore. Any mob in caledon takes me 1 swing, since it’s a level 1-15 zone.

Well Orr is designed somewhat differently, if you noticed there’s no “hearts” area in the whole island. Instead you have Temples of the Gods events. Once certain requirements are met the “Pact” will attempt to launch a major attack on the Risen to liberate the corrupted temples. Once liberated (these require a lot of people maybe around at least 10 for any chance of success — Dwayna seems to be the easiest) you gain access to Exotic level 80 armor set from each of the old Gods. They cost a lot of Karma (42,000 per piece) so a full set cost around 210,000 karma. Once you gain 100% exploration on the map and gained full set of the exotic armor there’s really little reason to go back to the place.

Carter.3865:

So, I’m finally on my way to Orr. But first I go through Straits and Melchor’s Leap.
I have to ask though, what is the point of these zones?
I mean what were the devs thinking of when they made them?
It isn’t fun at all, just stupid.
The majority of events are for parties, hardly no one there or no one wants to do them.
Because the events dont get completed most of the WPs are contested so when we die it’s back to near the start.
Mobs all over the place and the respawns? omg. I killed a few in front of me and carried on forward only to have the ones respawn behind me and join in killig me.
I’m glad I’ve got past these 2 zones but I certainly am not looking forward to going to them again on another character, it’s just death after death

I think pretty much, a lot of replies have answered your inquiry: the zones/map is fine as it is and designed as it is.

The challenge with GW2 is that, a lot of early zones are stupidly easy. Zones from Lv1 to Lv70 are linear in difficulty. The Lv70 to Lv80 Frostgorge Sound is also easy, linear approach in difficulty compared to lowe levels. However, Lv70 to Lv80 Orr is a different story, and puts the player in alert mode. And it’s because you’re in the battle zone. “lore-wise” speaking!

But just stay around, keep your head cool, explore and consider the zone a challenge, a challenge you must beat. And soon pretty much, it’s easy and you won’t even notice it’s a challenge at all.

And kidding aside, I never knew Orr is “hard”, till I began reading players in the forum complaining about the map. I always consider “new maps/zones” challenging because when I was leveling, I usually am several levels below the zone I am leveling in except in Orr. And that’s just because I enjoy Spark Fly Fen a lot…

Frost gorge is fun. Orr zones stink. Save the lore wise talk. Good luck doing any of the temples anymore with the majority of remaing players spamming for fractals.

Haishao.6851:

I love Malchor’s leap. It’s my favorite orr map and this is where I play when I’m alone.

You probably just need better organization. Everything in GW2 can be done with a party of 5 or lower.

Good luck 5 manning jormags event or gates of arah , ty

Asglarek.8976:

Exaggeration much? No you can’t 5 man “Everything”.

SUre there are some exceptions like Lyssa’s temple/shrine
But you can in fact 5-man every event that says Group event. After that it scales up.
THe problem being, it leaves little room for mistakes, and most players are not up against that kind of level of play. (me included maybe)

Kromsin.6359:

Frost gorge is fun. Orr zones stink. Save the lore wise talk. Good luck doing any of the temples anymore with the majority of remaing players spamming for fractals.

Agreed, Frost Gorge Sound is fun. But unlike you, I also found Orr fun. Claw of Jormag is a decent event, with Chest at the end but I don’t like the waiting time for the boss. There are other DEs too and resources which is a nice touch.

However, for farming fun, Karma and quick coin turn out, I love Orr. I’ll skip lore, since you don’t want to hear/read that, but Orr maps (SoD, ML, CS) are so cool. A lot of DEs can be done solo, it may not be easy, but doable. There are events that are impossible to solo but then again, that’s the same for any other maps so it’s not an issue.

So aside from fast DE respawn, and chained DEs which gives lots of Karma, these events also produce lots of loots from mobs. Also, the resources (Orichalcum, Orrian Sapling, Omnom, Coral, Ghost Pepper, Truffle, etc) are just so much more than Frostgorge Sound. Also, Karma vendors for armors if that’s your thing, is also cool in Orr.

So for me, comparing FgS vs Orr, Orr wins hands down. Of course, like you said, it stinks and probably not fun for you, but Anet made sure there’s FgS and it’s all cool coz it’s impossible to please everybody (each has their own definition of what is fun and what is not fun).

For those like me who enjoys such fast respawn, DEs, and resources, Orr is paradise. The mobs are easy to avoid, and if you know your way, you don’t even have to fight all of the mobs.

Been doing Orr with 3 classes: Thief, Necromancer, and Mesmer. And all three are a-ok doing solo runs. I have also seen other classes there (Rangers, Engineers, Elementalists, Warriors, and Guardians) so I’m pretty sure they are doing a-ok as well…

Decrypter.1785:

Good luck 5 manning jormags event or gates of arah , ty

From my experience, Jormag can be done solo, it just takes a long time, including all the crystals. I haven’t done the claw solo myself, only because there’s always someone there, but I have done all the crystals solo. I have however done it with only 4 people. The entire time one of the 4 wouldn’t stop complaining about how we didn’t have enough and would fail. The hardest part of the event is the last crystal, but you can just ranged it down and run, dealing with the adds on the side or later.

I’ve done the gates up to the keep the area clear part with only 5. The scaling on the amount of mobs seems to assume there should be a lot of people. To actually do that part, everyone has to catch and keep all the mobs out of the ring. I would expect that 5 coordinated people could do it, but probably not 5 randoms.

The statement that everything can be done with 5 players is true, assuming all 5 players are coordinated and know how to play. The one exception I can think of it Lyssa, since 5 is the minimum to defend all the points, but if they’re coordinated, they should be able to float between them instead of having 1 person on each point.

Asglarek.8976:

Haishao.6851:

I love Malchor’s leap. It’s my favorite orr map and this is where I play when I’m alone.

You probably just need better organization. Everything in GW2 can be done with a party of 5 or lower.

Exaggeration much? No you can’t 5 man “Everything”.

What cannot be done with 5 people?

Balthazar temple comes to mind.

ref.8196:

30-50 hits is a gross exageration. It takes me less than 10 seconds to kill a normal risen in cursed shore. Any mob in caledon takes me 1 swing, since it’s a level 1-15 zone.

Well, I must be doing something wrong, because it’s not exaggerated. I could be wrong (I haven’t counted), but I almost always get to use my 30-second recharge skills 2-3 times, so that’s a minimum of 30 seconds. The upper cap is something south of 90 seconds, so I would say yes, 30-50 is pretty much right on target.

I don’t think I’ve ever killed anything in the game in one swing. So, again, I must be doing something wrong.

NOTE: I haven’t tried Orr since I got sick of it after finishing the campaign. Perhaps I should go back and count now that I have at least something close to max in a few pieces of gear. I would probably do better, but then that’s the whole point of this thread, isn’t it?

For a new person trying to play the game, those areas are nearly impossible to complete. And one gets mighty sick and tired of slogging through it, paying twice for every death, and making virtually no progress at times (because all of the waypoints are contested, so you have to start over).

I love Orr. It’s thematically consistent, scary and difficult. You can get great loot there, but you have to be on your toes at all times. Of course, there are times when it is frustrating, but that’s part of the charm.

Once Anet adds an overland path to Ascended gear into the game, I suspect Orr will be popular again. Of course, if you simply prefer a less difficult zone, you can still get good loot in, say, Frostgorge Sound.

Biggest issue is nearly every Waypoint in Malchor’s Leap stays contested 90% of the time. They need to make a couple of waypoints stay stable, otherwise I have no problems with the zones other than the respawn and DE timers being too quick for the amount of people in them, which needs to be adjusted at this point, and the
rewards need to be worth hanging around.

Otherwise, I like how they did Orr.

Einlanzer.1627:

Biggest issue is nearly every Waypoint in Malchor’s Leap stays contested 90% of the time. They need to make a couple of waypoints stay stable, otherwise I have no problems with the zones other than the respawn and DE timers being too quick for the amount of people in them, which needs to be adjusted at this point, and the
rewards need to be worth hanging around.

Otherwise, I like how they did Orr.

Agreed. However, my solution would be to have the Pact attack with differing numbers of troops, such that some times they win even without a human present.

Thus, if a human is there, there’s the element of chance that always exists in war. You never really know if you have enough troops.

Players would have to learn to notice when they’re going to lose and pull a retreat.

It should be POSSIBLE for the risen to overrun a Pact battalion, but it shouldn’t be guaranteed as it is now. And, it should also be possible for the Pact to overrun the risen in an particular location.

If I were in charge, there would also be 2-3 specific locations in every zone (not just Orr) where it is almost completely safe for players. Caves, underwater hidden caverns, etc. Similar to Command Post in Nightfall. They could have different reasons for existing, but they would always be there. Or, nearly always.

(We had to clear out Sunspear Sanctuary and Command Post before use, and that was fun. So, every time a new player comes to a safehouse, some bugs or wurms or something might pop up that they have to “clean up” before it becomes a safe haven. Other players who are there will have to join in to help the new person clean it up, but to the ones who already have the haven as “safe”, it would be nuisance, not a war.)

Master the zones, get your exotics for completion, never go back again.

I don’t find them difficult to stay alive in. I do find them difficult to enjoy.

Well, Carter, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I finally figured out how to get to 400 in a crafting discipline, and I was then able to craft some rare armor pieces. They’re not exotic, but they still made me significantly harder to kill. I haven’t been to Orr to test it out, but I’m in Frostgorge Sound, and I’m lasting much longer than I thought I would up there.

So, getting the right gear seems to help. I suspect it will become even more so as I am able to add some exotic armor pieces to my outfit.

I even had my first two “one-hit kills” yesterday. We’ll see about whether the “30-50” has been reduced, but I’m lasting noticably longer as it is.