Guild Wars 2

I do understand there is a content where experienced/metabuild/metequip plays a relevant point – lets say lev 50 fractal.

But what is out of my understanding are groups like “Meta, gearcheck, 2nd ele only” for Ascalonian Catacombs P1…. I call these metatards and I am not sure if I should lough at them or feel pity… especially when I do full run with random PUG of 60+ people and after finishing ….these are still looking (not sure how many they kicked in between because they where not up to their standard)

The first time i did Arah 4, back before all the nerfs to Dwayna and other steps, before skipping was cool fun and dandy, and before zerker meta was even there – the first time i did Arah 4 was with two rangers, a rifle warrior, a soldier’s guardian and a mixed gs warrior.

The catch?
They were all guildies.
Random people i met a month earlier, who decided to join my guild and form some bonds of sympathy over that month, reforging them from random strangers into guildies. Just by playing together.

Any time i do a dungeon/fotm nowadays, i ignore lfg and just hit off to /g.
Everyone’s welcome from /g, people get shown the tricks, taught the paths, rookies are welcome, bring-your-own-build style.

Your solution?
Join a guild.
Not a speedclearing high-end PvE guild. A decent, open guild.

If i want to run a speedclear, i get onto my zerker war or zerker ele and use a mix of people from /g and lfg.
It’s normal and natural that random pugs base on the most effective meta.

Simply either set up your own lfg with appropriate description, or join a guild that won’t mind you bringing a ptv ranger. No need to label meta-people as elitist jerks. It’s quite easy if you think about it.

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

I do understand there is a content where experienced/metabuild/metequip plays a relevant point – lets say lev 50 fractal.

But what is out of my understanding are groups like “Meta, gearcheck, 2nd ele only” for Ascalonian Catacombs P1…. I call these metatards and I am not sure if I should lough at them or feel pity… especially when I do full run with random PUG of 60+ people and after finishing ….these are still looking (not sure how many they kicked in between because they where not up to their standard)

I’ll put this in this way : you are doing a full dungeon run (in need of money for more shinnies) including Asc Cat full run + CoE full run + CoF 1/2 + TA FWD/UP + Arah 1/2/3 + CM FullRun, every day for let’s say a week, in order to grant you 50+ gold/day.

Do you prefer 5 hours run with some randoms, or 3 hours with a full meta group for each dungeon ?

Actually, you may see the LFG open for a while, but they have probably started the run before the group start to fill up. They are not “metatards” (you’re kind of arogant here), they just care about how and how fast they want their runs done. That’s their choices, and no one shall blame them for that, they do not force other players to play with them.

Kordash.2197:

I’ll put this in this way : you are doing a full dungeon run (in need of money for more shinnies) including Asc Cat full run + CoE full run + CoF 1/2 + TA FWD/UP + Arah 1/2/3 + CM FullRun, every day for let’s say a week, in order to grant you 50+ gold/day.

Do you prefer 5 hours run with some randoms, or 3 hours with a full meta group for each dungeon ?

Faster the better > Time is money and often very limited, people want the most value for the time and adding factor that most have done the paths for 500+ times.

Apart from joining small/med sized guild that loves doing stuff ( where you are not just name on a rooster tab )

Create a funny lfg + “all welcome” blabla bla shows good results ^^ as long you keep what you get (often do see meta focused people but very friendly)

Imo Both options are very good and chance to get some new names on fl that are worth keeping for future runs etc x)

Problem is ppl do this dungeons for 3 years, i hate all this zerk stack corner meta, but i dont wanna stay inside a path for hours…
Other games have dungeon tier so after a while u do new content avoiding the old one or doing it less frequently, so the elitist will keep to lf meta, but normal players just enjoy what they are doing thinking to reach new content and new levels..

Imho the problem is not players, but the istanced content
I remeber the first time i ve doine AC story and Arah story, when the game was released and no one know how to play the game and contents i spent 4 hours each story!! We cleared all room, no skip, no stack no knowledge…

So now ppl are just farming stuff over and over without play any role except the farmer

I love gw2 but his game mode lack alot, pve is just for farmer, spvp is awesome but lack of kind of content after 3 years we will got only coinquest and now stronghold, www is not what i like so i dont spend word on it

In conclusion this game have a big potential but is runed by this stuff

MagicalSilence.1837:

Kordash.2197:

I’ll put this in this way : you are doing a full dungeon run (in need of money for more shinnies) including Asc Cat full run + CoE full run + CoF 1/2 + TA FWD/UP + Arah 1/2/3 + CM FullRun, every day for let’s say a week, in order to grant you 50+ gold/day.

Do you prefer 5 hours run with some randoms, or 3 hours with a full meta group for each dungeon ?

Faster the better > Time is money and often very limited, people want the most value for the time and adding factor that most have done the paths for 500+ times.

Apart from joining small/med sized guild that loves doing stuff ( where you are not just name on a rooster tab )

Create a funny lfg + “all welcome” blabla bla shows good results ^^ as long you keep what you get (often do see meta focused people but very friendly)

Imo Both options are very good and chance to get some new names on fl that are worth keeping for future runs etc x)

I do create boths types (Meta Zerk or All Welcome) following my feeling of the moment.

I run a medium (50 actives players) guild for 8 years (that exist for more than 9 years now) with all kind of people in it, meta followers, and some more casuals so i can always find people according to my mind set. I’m not really in need for other names in my FL

But, if i want to play in meta way to achieve very fast speed because i need those shinnies, i’ll create a LFG Meta Zerk. Because the Meta allow an optimal speed (when done the right way), and it this particular case that’s what i’m looking for.

EDIT : Meta people are not necessarly jerks, you can have some good laugh with them, they are humans like every single one of us, some tend to forget that.

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

I do understand there is a content where experienced/metabuild/metequip plays a relevant point – lets say lev 50 fractal.

But what is out of my understanding are groups like “Meta, gearcheck, 2nd ele only” for Ascalonian Catacombs P1…. I call these metatards and I am not sure if I should lough at them or feel pity… especially when I do full run with random PUG of 60+ people and after finishing ….these are still looking (not sure how many they kicked in between because they where not up to their standard)

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. You shouldn’t be bashing them. If that’s how they enjoy playing the game then who are you to tell them they are wrong (as long as they aren’t harassing other players). There is nothing wrong with wanting a good group and being willing to go watch a video or whatever while you wait for similarly minded players. It’s about as logical as calling some one names for liking strawberry ice cream instead of chocolate.

Aberrant.6749:

It’s about as logical as calling some one names for liking strawberry ice cream instead of chocolate.

To be fair people who like chocolate ice cream more than strawberry are heathens and should be burnt at the stake.

DonQuack.9025:

Aberrant.6749:

It’s about as logical as calling some one names for liking strawberry ice cream instead of chocolate.

To be fair people who like chocolate ice cream more than strawberry are heathens and should be burnt at the stake.

I won’t even get started on the people that put chocolate syrup on top of chocolate ice cream…

Aberrant.6749:

DonQuack.9025:

Aberrant.6749:

It’s about as logical as calling some one names for liking strawberry ice cream instead of chocolate.

To be fair people who like chocolate ice cream more than strawberry are heathens and should be burnt at the stake.

I won’t even get started on the people that put chocolate syrup on top of chocolate ice cream…

:O

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

I always watch YouTube videos of how to do a dungeon if I’m not familiar with the tactics. Did this with GW2 and worked well way back when.

Why is this topic 6 pages?

Its simple, play with ppl liked mined like you…….

If players are being inappropriate report and leave……

Anet knows how the Meta is, its up to them if they want to change it or not.

Ok move along, nothing to see…….

Start your own group, I never have problems getting into dungeons that way.

I have never been kicked from a dungeon group before, but I also don’t join groups that are asking for zerker when I don’t have it equipped so… maybe join groups you qualify for.

Or, as suggested many times, create your own group.

Usually when I create a group, I just put the path or level fractal I am doing and that’s it. I’m not too particular to specific amounts of AP or build metas. I don’t even mind lower level characters in dungeons so long as they are at the level required for that specific explore mode.

What annoys me is when players join my group and then complain about specific things like “why didn’t you choose swamp first? (in a fractal)” or “why isn’t everyone in zerker gear?”, or they’ll just try to kick another player who joined that is not level 80, even if they are at a suitable level for that specific dungeon. I usually tell those people that if they wanted a group with specific parameters, then they should have looked for a party advertising those parameters (or created one themselves), rather than joining a party open to all and then complaining.

People do become very abusive though, even when there’s no justification to do so (not that there ever really is justification to verbally abuse someone). I’d blame the meta for that, but really, the truth is it’s the players who choose how to behave and they have to take responsibility for it. I’m tired of people making excuses or using scapegoats for their own crappy behavior.

With all that said, nowadays when I do dungeons or fractals, I tend to do them with at least two friends (guildies) in my party. That way if anyone joins the party and tries to kick us, or anyone else who they believe doesn’t suit their specific parameters for a dungeon, they have no hope of succeeding because my guildies and I hold the majority voting power. I’ve had random players try to kick one of my guildies late into a fractal run, only to realise their folly after noticing that there are three of us from the same guild.

The swearing in the PM’s I receive after they get subsequently kicked is usually quite colorful and amusing. XD

P.S. I never kick players for being inexperienced or for making mistakes. As long as they are willing to listen to advice, I’m more than happy to have them along. I’ll only kick a player if they become abusive to other party members, make threats or if they try to kick another player, or one of my guildies, without good reason for doing so. There are many other players out there who are like-minded, you just have to find them and associate yourselves with them.

Add me. I will be glad to join in any runs to any dungeons. Exp or not. I don’t care. I have been in worst fails, so failing at spider at AC is no big deal. :P

Seriously, add me. I will help anyone the best I can.

NikeEU.7690:

MattyP.6954:

Running glass should be difficult, and, in PvE, it isn’t. Where’s the Risk/Reward calculus?

The formula isn’t Risk = Reward.

It’s:

(Skill/Risk) * Experience = Reward = (2 Blues + Green)

FTFY

I think you just need to find a guild / community that fits you, one that’s more open towards different playstyles. I’ve not queued a pug since early 2014 and I’m really happy with dungeon after discovering the wonders of not stacking in a corner hoping my zerker gear will outlast the enemy

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

First off, keep looking for a guild. Most PvE/PvX guilds are large enough that a few members missing guild missions won’t make any difference to them. Unless your guild is a small group of friends, it isn’t realistic to expect every single member to make it to missions every week.

I will run dungeons with pretty much anyone , provided they either know the path or are willing to follow directions. I don’t care what anyone is running unless there is a problem during an encounter (wiping repeatedly) in which running a certain weapon/skill would get us past it. So if you’re still having trouble with groups or want to learn other dungeons, feel free to bug me.

I do run berserker in PvE because I personally believed it is what I should work up to. When I was a newbie, I was running other types of gear while I learned the game. If you are going with pug groups, you should run whatever you believe would contribute most to the group. If you aren’t familiar with the enemies or not experienced enough to be glassy, I see no issue with joining pug groups that aren’t listed as zerk, exp, or meta.

Silvercyclone.1462:

A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences.

I find this and other similar claims extremely unlikely. Since last week I’ve run 14 CoFs, none of them were zerker only, we didn’t kick anyone because of lack of experience.
Every week I run P1 and P2 daily, all advertised through the LFG tool, never any problems.

and they wonder why i like parties to be leader = ruler….
when you make a party and meta’s get in regardless of description, it’s a kick or leave right away.
of the party creator is also the leader of the party meta’s can at least not ruin a party buy kicking the creator in the progress, they can leave whenever they want.

General Health.9678:

Silvercyclone.1462:

A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences.

I find this and other similar claims extremely unlikely. Since last week I’ve run 14 CoFs, none of them were zerker only, we didn’t kick anyone because of lack of experience.
Every week I run P1 and P2 daily, all advertised through the LFG tool, never any problems.

“You run into an kitten in the morning, you ran into an kitten. You run into kittens all day, YOU’RE the kitten”

I will tell a story. I joined a run for CoF path 2 the description read, “P2 Zerk speed clear 4k+”. I knew exactly that it meant I was on my pure zerk guard so why not. I join the party there are 3 member there 1k ap each or less. the guy who wrote the description goes off on a tirade. So I kicked him without words or rude comments. Not because he was wrong (he was not). It just so happened they might have been new enough not to know the terms (600-1.2k ap). I knew after that point I would be teaching the run. We failed bombs and the last burn took forever but here’s the thing. It was the middle of the night I kicked the other guy to save him the time of ranting so he could start another party quickly. I took the newbies (possibly a troll or 2) so they could learn the run without getting berated. Some times even after playing this long you have to kitten the situation. I had an opportunity to make 4 more players aware of the runs mechanics possibly helping out the next guy they group with.

Zerk speed clears are fine. all welcome runs are fine too. Don’t be the jerk who joins just to bother people. Most speed runs are quiet and require little communications. We all know the run. I did AC path 1 a few weeks back a regular “80 exp” party on my engi. We got to kholer stacked and nearly wiped but we downed him in seconds. One person asked if everyone was zerker and well all said, “yes” and laughed. No one came with elitist attitudes but, we speed cleared it none the less.

Aberrant.6749:

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. If that’s how they enjoy playing the game then who are you to tell them they are wrong (as long as they aren’t harassing other players). There is nothing wrong with wanting a good group

(yours edited for brevity/clarity)

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. Unless you’re being condescending and exclusive. Then you can be concerned with how other people want to play all you want. Leave that to the professionals. Remember, if they’re top dog, their kitten doesn’t stink; you do!

I swear, I just got done pointing out this hypocrisy over on reddit.

Sariel V.7024:

Aberrant.6749:

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. If that’s how they enjoy playing the game then who are you to tell them they are wrong (as long as they aren’t harassing other players). There is nothing wrong with wanting a good group

(yours edited for brevity/clarity)

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. Unless you’re being condescending and exclusive. Then you can be concerned with how other people want to play all you want. Leave that to the professionals. Remember, if they’re top dog, their kitten doesn’t stink; you do!

I swear, I just got done pointing out this hypocrisy over on reddit.

Hypocrisy is non-zerker players expecting zerker players to accept non-zerker players them even though they themselves refuse to accept the zerker players and meta.

This entire thread is a testament to the selfish nature of people. They want to be allowed to play how they want but they don’t want other people who want to play differently than them to be able to play how they want.

One guy in this thread specifically said he joined speedclear LFGs just to block zerker players. That is basically harassment and LFG abuse.

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

Algreg.3629:

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

They don’t come onto the forums. But they do go into the groups in game and start demanding players follow the meta.

Seera.5916:

Algreg.3629:

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

They don’t come onto the forums. But they do go into the groups in game and start demanding players follow the meta.

This is one of those things I hear about all the time but have literally never witnessed once.

Dinks.2478:

Seera.5916:

Algreg.3629:

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

They don’t come onto the forums. But they do go into the groups in game and start demanding players follow the meta.

This is one of those things I hear about all the time but have literally never witnessed once.

I figure they’re a minority (just like the PHIW’s who complain about meta players) so I wouldn’t be surprised if you hadn’t come across one.

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Anyone who holds the maxim, “Anyone should play as they want.” does not have to accept “Players can play with only like minded players”. The first is talking about individual play styles not group dynamics. The latter is extending “play as you want” to social dynamics. Which is a ridiculous leap of logic. The whole “no holy trinity” “play as you want” ideal is that you will play with any player not that you are suppose to go around excluding players.

Does that make zerker only groups wrong? That point doesn’t. It just shows how “play as you want” advocates are not hypocritical when critiquing zerker-only groups. But since the vast majority of meta elitist in this thread would be offended by now, no one is reading this last bit and will just assume the above point is saying zerker groups are wrong and then they will try to attack that straw-man interpretation of the point.

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Anyone who holds the maxim, “Anyone should play as they want.” does not have to accept “Players can play with only like minded players”. The first is talking about individual play styles not group dynamics. The latter is extending “play as you want” to social dynamics. Which is a ridiculous leap of logic. The whole “no holy trinity” “play as you want” ideal is that you will play with any player not that you are suppose to go around excluding players.

Does that make zerker only groups wrong? That point doesn’t. It just shows how “play as you want” advocates are not hypocritical when critiquing zerker-only groups. But since the vast majority of meta elitist in this thread would be offended by now, no one is reading this last bit and will just assume the above point is saying zerker groups are wrong and then they will try to attack that straw-man interpretation of the point.

If playing with like-minded people is how you want to play then by definition it is wrong to say people shouldn’t play with who they want to if you are a play how you want player.

I think this thread could get closed now. Seems a bit de railed and points keep being repeated.

Dinks.2478:

If playing with like-minded people is how you want to play then by definition it is wrong to say people shouldn’t play with who they want to if you are a play how you want player.

That is true. Completely unrelated to what anyone is saying, but true.

Critiquing zerker-only groups with “play as you want” is not saying you want to play with like minded people. Heck OP opened with everyone should be forced to act according to “play as you want” regardless of their mind about the matter.

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Really all I needed to read.

If you can’t tolerate intolerance you have no room to judge. Nothing is more bullkitten than forced tolerance.

Jerus.4350:

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Really all I needed to read.

If you can’t tolerate intolerance you have no room to judge. Nothing is more bullkitten than forced tolerance.

To you other’s words:
Paradox of tolerance

“The paradox of tolerance” refers to the act of being intolerant of intolerance. It is a term generally used by opponents of pluralism to criticize advocates of toleration. The argument goes something like this:

1. Tolerance means accepting others with differing views/lifestyles/shoe sizes
2. Some people do not accept others with differing views/lifestyles/shoe sizes
3. Those people are intolerant
4. Not accepting intolerant people is itself intolerant
5. Therefore, tolerance is impossible

This argument may be fallacious . Here’s why: This assumes that totally uncritical tolerance is desirable. There’s a distinction between being tolerant and blind moral relativism, and it is perfectly reasonable to say that it is not desirable to be perfectly tolerant of every single thing. Extremism rarely bodes well for anybody.
Karl Popper explains:
“”Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them…We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Anyone who holds the maxim, “Anyone should play as they want.” does not have to accept “Players can play with only like minded players”. The first is talking about individual play styles not group dynamics. The latter is extending “play as you want” to social dynamics. Which is a ridiculous leap of logic. The whole “no holy trinity” “play as you want” ideal is that you will play with any player not that you are suppose to go around excluding players.

Does that make zerker only groups wrong? That point doesn’t. It just shows how “play as you want” advocates are not hypocritical when critiquing zerker-only groups. But since the vast majority of meta elitist in this thread would be offended by now, no one is reading this last bit and will just assume the above point is saying zerker groups are wrong and then they will try to attack that straw-man interpretation of the point.

How is it not hypocritical?

Those asking for specific requirements want to play with others who share the same goals and want to do so with the same amount of speed & efficiency.

Why is asking that people who do not fit their requirements to not join the group because they do not wish to play with them hypocritical? Why is politely asking them to leave/kicking a non-zerker/meta player so horrible?

Why is that subset of play how I want to play, not able to play how they want? Because lets face it, we all play how we want.

See attached picture for various subsets. Circles are not representative of percent of players who fall in that category.

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

“Start your own group”

Speed clearers can and do join casual/non-speed runs and force them into speed runs. It’s not as common as some are making it out to be but it does happen.

I was with a casual, first time SE group. The leader made it very clear she didn’t know the path and intended to watch all cut scenes. Two zerkers joined us and turned the run into a speed clear. Oh I hear you “kick them from the party and move on” – well no one did, probably because they weren’t abusive, but it was very frustrating to have a mellow run turned into RUSH RUSH HURRY HURRY NO CUT SCENES SKIP ALL MOBS STACK HERE. They left right after the last boss, no ‘thank you’, nothing.

So both sides can be guilty of not reading a LFG, sadly that’s the chance you take.

Dinks.2478:

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

Yes so both groups can now get paired together randomly and then can kick and harass themselves endlessly until one group leaves and the other has the party and the dungeon.
Then people will get what they get and when it isn’t what they wanted they’ll start verbally abusing each other just like people do ALL THE TIME in ANY ENVIRONMENT.

If people weren’t lazy and made their own groups we wouldn’t have this issue now. The fact that we do have it proves that a LOT of people are incapable of making their own groups with similarly minded people.

Taking choice away from players is NEVER a good thing.

You and I are, clearly, never going to agree on this, Harper.

The whole idea is that, if you had any very specific/rigid requirements, you wouldn’t use the queuing system.

Or, if you did, you would just have to relax your requirements (at least temporarily).

That would actually be good for everyone involved; especially the people with the too-rigid requirements.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

Learn to enjoy the chaos, or run with your own guild.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player.

…and that, once people feel excluded and over-pressurised, that feeling tends to endure, even long after they are past the “noob” stage.

That isn’t good for the future of the game.

But you’re the one trying to control everything around you, you’re the one trying to force zerker meta players to run with non-meta players who are going to ruin their experience. Maybe you should look in a mirror when saying you should let people play how they want.

No I’m not.

I would assume most zerker/metas would either run with their guilds, or if the list system carried on alongside the random queue, they would continue to use that instead.

I wish people would stop projecting…

I’m saying that the standard thing should be a random group.

That may well mean that I would also end up with people I wouldn’t normally run with (not that I run dungeons at all, ATM – I avoid them like the plague).

So, I’m not controlling anything.

In fact, quite the opposite: I am voluntarily wishing to relinquish control.

The point is, that we would all have to make allowances and accept whoever we got and their way of playing if we chose to use the random queue system.

That would be a good thing, for all of us.

…and Harper, this is a game, for goodness sake.

No one is suggesting chaos IRL, or us ending up living in caves.

The whole point of playing games is to have fun.

If you are not enjoying the experience of playing the game and are just playing it, at this point, to get some gold to buy pixels, so your char can perform slightly better and look prettier while playing the very game you dislike, some more, why on earth are you bothering?

Why not take a break, or play another game, or something, for your own (and those around you’s) psychological wellbeing?

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

Aerlen.5326:

“Start your own group”

Speed clearers can and do join casual/non-speed runs and force them into speed runs. It’s not as common as some are making it out to be but it does happen.

I was with a casual, first time SE group. The leader made it very clear she didn’t know the path and intended to watch all cut scenes. Two zerkers joined us and turned the run into a speed clear. Oh I hear you “kick them from the party and move on” – well no one did, probably because they weren’t abusive, but it was very frustrating to have a mellow run turned into RUSH RUSH HURRY HURRY NO CUT SCENES SKIP ALL MOBS STACK HERE. They left right after the last boss, no ‘thank you’, nothing.

So both sides can be guilty of not reading a LFG, sadly that’s the chance you take.

I started a “29” fractal lfg with my Zoja’s warrior. Some Necro joined, immediately decided he needed to roll swamp first, pulled Mossman into the water, and basically told everyone what to do.

No one asked for that. No one didn’t ask for that either. I was annoyed when he told everyone to do the re-logging trick on mai trin. Our poor elementalist bugged out and couldn’t get back in. I sent her 5g to hopefully make that experience suck less, but I also felt guilty for letting that Necromancer’s behavior go unchecked.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

But some people’s individual styles directly clash with other people’s individual styles. So you can’t separate the social aspect of MMO’s out of play how I want. You just can’t. Because when you put the player who wants to see how fast they can do the dungeon together with the player who wants to take their time, there’s going to be conflict. Some groups may be able to meet at the middle ground. Others will not. Because even amongst the PHIW crowd or the zerker crowd, individual styles differ. Some players are more tolerant of mistakes than others.

A casual PHIW may be willing to excuse some mistakes, but may not want to take 4 hours to get through a dungeon if one players is constantly making mistakes and/or having to take breaks.

A hardcore zerker may be willing to carry one player occasionally, but not if they’re going to do things that cause problems beyond the carried player ending up dead every fight. Because the time spent trying to find the perfect zerker player may be too long for the time he has. And that of the rest of the party.

Is it really such a bad thing that people come up with ways to avoid the inevitable conflict if you try to force them to play together?

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

You’re straight up ignoring what it means in favor of your own selfish argument. You want to be able to play how you want and ignore how everybody else who wants to play differently wants to play so you ignore the meaning of the phrase when convenient.

Let us be honest here. Why should non-meta players be able to force meta players into their less efficient parties but meta players can’t force non-meta players out of their parties? It would be like forcing pro-abortion people to hang out with anti-abortion people. People want to hang out with people that have the same interests and think the same way as them and they should be able to.