Guild Wars 2

What is a sub-class?

Sub-class is a progression system chosen at the character creation. It will not add anything new. It will only take from the existing traits and skills. Example, a Necromancer’s Subclass can be:

• Minion Master- Will take minions traits
• Warlock- Will take condi traits
• Ritualist- Will take only well traits.
• Wraith- Takes only spectral traits
• Plague doctor- takes only support traits
• Abomination- Takes only power traits

When leveling up,* the player gets a trait and skill as a reward* depending on the sub-class chosen. Example, Let say that a player chosen Minion Master as a sub-class. Let say that the subclass follows this Build

• At level 1, The player learns Blood Fiend. (Other sub classes may get different healing skills at the start.)
• At level 5, Bone Minions
• At level 10, Bone fiend.
• At level 20, Flesh Wurm
• At level 30, Flesh Golem.

• At level 36, The player learns Minion Master trait
• At level 48, the player learns Mark of Evasion.
• At level 60, the player learns Flesh of the Master.
• At level 66, Spiteful spirit
• At level 72, Training of the Master
• At level 78, Vampiric Master
• At level 80, Necromatic Corruption.

I believe that this would not overwhelm new players.

Why have this? I believe this is a positive for Veterans and Newbies alike.

For veterans, That empty space in the trait line will not be annoying. There won’t be a need to fill up that empty space in the trait line. Then, it can be treated as an endgame activity. Trait hunting can be considered something to do when level 80.

For newbies, it will teach them about traits better than having nothing. To learn nothing about them and expect to find them in the unknown world at level 36 is more overwhelming than just handing it out.

As for Devs, it will bring out the creativity out of them. They just need to create some builds and add them in. I do understand that there is work involved. But what addition doesn’t require work?

The players are not happy with the trait system, but I believe that this progression system will. Most of the base needed are already there(Leveling up rewards, trait hunting, etc). Sub-classes progression system can work.

Please, new players these days get confused easily. I mean if they can’t even realize that you can pick up cow feed to feed cow, or can’t learn how to use 2-3 skills in 5 minutes and have to wait to lv 10 unlock the first 5 skills and lv 31 to be able to fully know how to use an elite skill, how can they even phantom these concepts!

Oh wait….

I mean these applies to all players in this game since if you create a new character you still don’t know how to pick up cow feed to feed cow and etc.

Interesting seeing sub-classes pop up every now and then though with this system having a guideline to follow would be interesting gameplay and not use to many resources to make new class mechanics.

Though one problem though it seems and correct me if I’m wrong here will limit the character builds though supposedly if they don’t want to be a minion master sub class will they have the option to change back?

Sub-class, as in automated system that determines traits that are automatically unlocked for free.

Sounds interesting, but would take long to find good Sub-class combos, otherwise some sub-classes are not used for being underpowered.

Or perhaps same can be shaped as “Initiation to profession”, which is lvl gated and advises players to go to profession trainer and choose “Initiation training” from “sub-classes” presented, which then unlocks set of traits of that sub-class (for free) when player confirms their choice.
This way it’s not necessary for additional option in character creation, but dunno how it’s gonna be implemented anyway, along with the possible balance issues.

On other hand, it’s quite similar to start up in GW1 Faction, when choosing your secondary profession, where you could experiment skills and learn about the combos to use, until you decide on what you feel would work the best.

Last thought, it does sound like the old Trait book system…

This sounds less like a Sub Class system and more like a babies First build using only what anets already provided for the class.

Sure while it might work on a fair share of the classes, Necro might even get 7 options and warrior might get 12

how many options to the less diverse classes end up with do you think?

I can see rangers getting maybe 4
Thieves 2 maybe 3
Mesmer 3 at most.

What to you, as a noob player, would that say about class health and diversity? Would it tell you that Warriors are less specialized and more rounded and should be weaker for it? Or does it tell you that you just picked a kitten class with 0 options on playability and play style and should probably go back and try again?

I would advise the OP just to wait for Anet coming up with the official CDI thread for Sub Classes, just as Chris Whiteside as propsed to make one somewhen in the future as a result of the very first CDI that was all about Charatcer Progression which I am responsible for as origin of whole Sub Class idea, who heavily participated inside of that CDI for the whole purpose of GW2 getting for the sake of a much better and more depthful and more especialyl meaningful Character Progression Sub Classes as improvements as a whole for the complete Class System of this game.

What the OP wants here , aren’t Sub Classes, what the OP describes here are just “only” specializations of the Main Class over the patch from Level 1 to Level 80 under ANets new dumbed down character progression system that’s of low idiot level niveau, because anythign else would be too overwhelming and too hard to understand at all.

However, a Sub Class isn’t just a specialization only.
A Sub Class defines alot more, than just only what kind of skills your character learns or what a kind of weapon your charatcer can use or not.

A Sub Class first and foremost defines your character, not the gameplay of your character.
The changed and improved gameplay aspects are just only a nice to have side effects, that should give the player the feeling of “progression” in the sense of becoming stronger, faster, having more build options and so on .

However, the true essence behind a Sub Class System is to make your character more unique, Character Customization is the true goal behind a well developed Sub Class System, and thus it helps in things, that give you more options to customize your character more and more it more unique.

Features like special Sub Class related Equipment Skins that can be used only, when youve schosen to follow tha path of Sub Class X to become that Sub Class with your Character.
Features like Sub Class special Expertises, that change how your skills look like, givign them different Skill Animations and Effects.
Features like special Sub Class related new Dances, new Emotes and so on …

Thats the stuff with that you can individualize your Character for the moment as long you play as that Sub Class.
But because its the nature of peopel to QQ about specializations, if they mean that they could potentially lock you out from all of the othe new content, something like Sub Classes need to be revertable, just like Traits, so that they needs to be a way for them in the game to reset your descision and to choose for a small fee an other path of a sub class that you want to follow from that moment on.

Just like in GW1, where you also couln’t have all secondary classes ad once, you had to change them at a npc for a small fee.
just like we can’t have all craftign professions on 1 character all at once, we have to talk with a NPC to change our crafting professions – on an important sidenote – without losing the previous progress on the changed out craftign job

And thats how Sub Classes would have to work for GW2 later too. You change one Sub Class out with an other Sub Class of your Main Profession and you won’t lose any progress you made so far with your last Sub Class.
However for the sake of game balance, you will always be able to have only 1 Sub Class active at any given time and when you want to change it, then you have to talk with a NPC and pay a fee – this way the game also receive a simple new and important gold sink too.

By the way… 7 Sub Classes/Specializations like the OP suggests here is way too much!!
3 to maximum 4 Sub Classes per Main Profession would be alot more appropiate and doable at all for Anet.

Just look for this at the old Ragnarok Online Game, which is honestly for me personalyl also the whole inspiration for why I made the Sub Class Suggestion in the Character Progression CDI, as it stands out for me, that this game’s Class System is besides of its Fun Classes that it has by far until today for me one of the best thought out and at the same time most simple to understand and also at the same time most depthful Character Progression Systems that exist out there in the whole MMORPG Genre and this since years and it would fit so perfectly into GW2 with its Single Class System same like RO to improve and build up on that System of RO.

Because more easier and at the same time very depthful and fun to play Character progression Systems than this can’t you have together with fitting Class Names, that don’t sound either childish, laughable or unfitting to the point, that you have to start to request from the suggestion giver, if he/she even has understood at all, that GW2’s class names follow a clear and simple to see scheme based on just 1 worded class/profession names in the way of those examples:

Good =

Bard
Visionary
Chronomancer
Augmentor
Lancer

Bad =

Death Knight
Fortune Teller
Plague Doctor
Shape Shifter
Demon Hunter
ect.

You get it I think