Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
The problem is also one of the strengths of GW2. Build combinations. There’s a lot of them. Which is good, but because hardly any build templates are viable there’s a lot of noise out there when it comes to builds.
The solution I’m proposing could potentially be applied to each game mode.
To start collect data on builds that are being run, compare them and identify the similarities and where the variations. This should be driven by Gear stats and Weapon sets primarily, and secondary considerations would be for gear mods, traits, and slot skills.
After gathering this build data, put it through our black box system. What the system outputs should be organized data about what builds are used most often and rating builds by popularity.
Display this data in a UI so that people can see for a particular profession what the top 5 or so builds are based upon the primary factors, and allow people to dig into those to see what the most popular variants are.
The problem that this helps solve is players running bad builds. Players can still run bad builds if they want, but at least the game tells them what everyone else is usually running, and the reason people would be running these is ideally because they are good builds.
This idea was originally conceived for PvP, but I think it’s got the potential to work in other game modes too, though it’d be more complicated.
So maybe something a little bit similar to what people have done for Diablo III?
http://diablo.somepage.com/popular/
It might be an interesting way to help with player build direction, so I can’t say I’d object. At the same time, I think the message ANet wants to send with their game is “anything’s viable! Build whatever you want!”. A tool that helps players come to conclusions on what is objectively “the best” might conflict with that.
The only real thing this would offer is a standard cookie cutter best build template. And as more people used these cookie cutter builds, they would increase the popularity, which would effect the output of you blackbox, again only revealing what the popular builds are, which are what everyone is running based on the suggestion that they run that. Ad infinitum. As far as bad builds, that is subjective at best. Granted there can be builds that trait for a certain weapon, say axe, but is useless if the player is using a sword. However what currently is considered “bad”, at least on the forums, is anything that doesn’t provide high DPS. Any gear set up that doesn’t use Beserker gear, is considered “bad”. Having a UI that tells the player they are running a “bad” build because thats not what other people are running only further reinforces the meta and DPS builds, and don’t allow for experimentation, diversity, or creativity.
The meta is the meta for a reason, it’s because those builds have been shaken out to be the best builds.
In my opinion it’s better to show people what others have found to be working best in game than to not show them. Maybe it can be communicated somewhat differently depending upon game mode.
What I’d like to reduce though, is people glmping themselves. They won’t listen elitists, sure, but they would be more likely to listen to game data.
Ultimately the root cause of the problem is that a lot of things have situational uses, and not everything is equally viable.
Another suggestion could be for ANet to balance their game, and change skills, but I think that is feasible whereas communicating what builds work best in game is feasible.
The meta is the meta for a reason, it’s because those builds have been shaken out to be the best builds.
In my opinion it’s better to show people what others have found to be working best in game than to not show them. Maybe it can be communicated somewhat differently depending upon game mode.
What I’d like to reduce though, is people glmping themselves. They won’t listen elitists, sure, but they would be more likely to listen to game data.
I’d bet quite a bit that if the build generator you propose shows people meta builds based on what people in the game are actually running, that “meta” would not be the current meta…if you know what I mean. The builds that are most commonly run are probably trash. If that is the case, how would this proposed build generator determine builds that actually are “working best in game” rather than just what the most players are using?
The only problem is that there’s more game modes than are plainly obvious. Yes, there’s WvW, PvP (whether s or t format), and PvE. PvE is a gross generalization though. There’s open world content (both solo and team, and even includes farming and event hunting), dungeons, fractals, and then there’s meta bosses.
To top it off, there’s also a fairly toxic community regarding “best builds” to begin with. A lot of them share the same baseless assumption that “most damage is best damage” for whatever you do. Sometimes, it’s the correct answer, other times, it’s the most disgustingly incorrect answer you can possibly puke out.
Or a third option: People are causal players who don’t care. They like the way their prefered build plays, and it works. With not having a trinity, and all professions can meet all roles, they are in no way required to use the meta, or play the most optimal way possible. Why do you think there are so many “bearbow” rangers? It’s certainly not the most optimal build, but can be fun to play (from what I understand). People don’t listen to “elitists” because they don’t care. These same people aren’t going to be running “Zerk only, exp 80 speed run” LFGs. They log in a couple of times a week, for a couple of hours, have fun with their friends, kill a boss, maybe run a dungeon, do whatever, because they find it fun. This game largely caters to those types of players. So it takes them a bit longer to do a dungeon run, they don’t feel like they need to rush through content. They take their time, and play how they want, and find it fun. If people have a problem with that, don’t play with them, specify your LFGs, and let them be.
People in general don’t like being told, either by others, or the game itself, that what they are doing is “wrong”, that they are “gimping” themselves. Most of the time, they will run a “sub-par” build on purpose just to irritate those that are trying to tell them what to do, and how to play.
If players want to get “better”, they usually do the research themselves, and find the best build possible on their own. They don’t need someone telling them to do it, otherwise they suck and are horrible players.
All these terms (best, gimping themselves, bad, etc) are subjective at best. What one person may consider a good build, another will think it’s bad, because it doesn’t do x,y,z. For example, Condi necro. Many people say it sucks in PvE. Guess what? I run it in PvE and found it melts mobs just as well as anything. On a world boss it does take a hit due to condition mechanics, but in dungeons with a small group it does quite well. Now is that a “bad” build for open world PvE? Some would say yes, others no.
“The problem that this helps solve is players running bad builds. Players can still run bad builds if they want, but at least the game tells them what everyone else is usually running, and the reason people would be running these is ideally because they are good builds.”
yes! please add this game data based build archive thingy
everyone loves more data/info/guides
example: dulfy
Most of the time, they will run a “sub-par” build on purpose just to irritate those that are trying to tell them what to do, and how to play.
Rage at my guardian’s greatsword and I’ll grab my staff. Suck it hard, elitists.
anet telling people what to run is absolutely not going to happen…it goes against “play as you want”….which you can. that is why the content is so easy….so a cleric/knight or celestial can complete content that a zerker can.
and why do we need this? the forums let anyone know the meta builds per class…..all they have to do is look.
a build generator that says the same things the forums do now will not change a thing. those interested in being optimal consult the forums already.
(edited by Relshdan.6854)
Are there even enough meta builds to warrant a generator?
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