Guild Wars 2

Make bosses have a building crit damage resistance buff. Think about it why should CC suffer CC doesn’t kill bosses and Condi damage already has a limitation because it’s built poorly (max stacking), so fix the crit Zerker mentality by making bosses require coordination by giving them a significant buff against crit burst damage skills then parties would be required to have multiple build types and the Zerker build parties would be dead.

The only effect your suggestion would have is to lengthen kill times. You might as well have said, “Give bosses more health.” Your suggestion would not require parties to take multiple build types. Glass parties would not be dead.

Just simply Nerf crit damage and raise max condition stacks. Also one way to Nerf zerker is damage reflection, boss reflect 10% direct damage back to player. Wait, that idea is great. Anet pls hire me, I’m a genius.

let me just put this here……….

I dont understand why zerker is the problem its just one of many available stats. If you or someone want to run a party full of clerics or condi builds nothing stopping you. Whats wrong with people running whatever they want, how would you feel if people were telling you what to run, and that what your running is wrong, chances are you have heard that so why go ahead and do the same exact thing to others? Let people run whatever the heck they want, dont like it, dont party up with them, dont run with them simple as that. People will always find the fastest way to do something. Get over it.

I will say that condition builds do need a long overdue buff for pve.

Why “fix” something that isn’t broken?

If you want to run non-zerker builds in a dungeon, just list that in LFG or join a guild of like-minded people.

Next time, do not enter “berserker’s only meta builds ping gear” with your “tank”/“healer” full Nomad’s.

“Problem” solved.

a lot of times this can be avoided by people running with friends or in a guild group, much more forgiving. Pug groups generally are about speed, and will utilize whatever is considered the most efficient setup, thats how they want to run its their choice, if its not your thing dont do it.

Hello little one. You’ve been a busy little poster, haven’t you?

No going further for you. It’s too dangerous. You might get hurt.

. . . two things.

You can’t fix the zerging problem without punishing zerging tremendously enough for them not to want to do that. And you can’t do that without basically deterring players from taking part in events if they see X players there because they know it’s not worth it.

. . . which right there is a problem, since we really want this game to include people instead of telling them (or inducing them) to not do stuff because they’re not wanted. And I guarantee, like with the Assault Knights when I would hang around for them? Some people are not going to be nice telling them to go away since they’re not doing any good there.

Secondly, the zerker thing. Unless you really, really try? It’s always going to be better to just DPS something to death than try to follow some clever puzzle plan laid down by the designers of an encounter. Even if you hard-code pauses at certain health %s, or force invulnerability? It’s usually better to chew that damage when vulnerable faster than to play it safer.

Especially because failure/death is such a mild thing here.

If you think people using berserker is a problem, then it’s your mentality that is the real underlying issue.

Perhaps you should, like everybody else does, make your own LFG ad requesting people to use whatever you’d like. That’s exactly what they’re doing.

Suggestion 1: For the next 20 seconds 10% of your Critical Chance is dealt as damage to you.

So 50% CC equals 5% damage every second.

Suggestion 2: CC increases the amount of reflect damage for every hit you do. With CC at 0 you would get 100 reflect damage. With CC 50% you would get 100, 150, 225, etc.. reflect damage.

The only way to properly fix zerker problem (if such a thing exists) is to change the boss mechanics to put focus on tactics and survivability and not on dps. This is particularly true for dungeons, where each encounter can be boiled down to: do a lot of damage as quickly as possible.

And then people will go to the next efficient build/stat set, and the ‘problem’ will repeat itself. Basically what you are wanting is to ruin someones fun to give another person fun.

CureForLiving.5360:

The only way to properly fix zerker problem (if such a thing exists) is to change the boss mechanics to put focus on tactics and survivability and not on dps. This is particularly true for dungeons, where each encounter can be boiled down to: do a lot of damage as quickly as possible.

Fair enough, but the problem with stressing survivability is it doesn’t exactly hinge on the whole party being able to do it.

Being able to get people up from downed quickly, they can make it through an encounter. Being able to fall back and reset a room to allow a wipe to respawn, means they can just try again.

You know what I was thinking of? The one boss in the Aetherblade lair which was an asura in a room with spinning lightning traps you had to avoid while fighting him. And the trick was to stay ahead of those lightning traps spinning around while not getting caught. I never did get a group to get past that because he simply wiped us. DPS’d too fast? The patterns cycled and we couldn’t get ahead fast enough to survive. Total wipe. Too slow? Inevitably, we’d get caught by the beams and knocked out one by one.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Meta-does-not-mean-Most-Effective/first#post4714956

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/suggestion-A-way-to-shake-dungeon-meta/first#post4715764

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Meta-has-to-end

There should be a fee of 100g attached to the creation of any thread about “zerk meta” and all its variations.

Veydar.5017:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Meta-does-not-mean-Most-Effective/first#post4714956

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/suggestion-A-way-to-shake-dungeon-meta/first#post4715764

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Meta-has-to-end

There should be a fee of 100g attached to the creation of any thread about “zerk meta” and all its variations.

To be fair not everyone stays on top of every forum post about every topic, and this is a forum, people can talk about anything game related. Its normal for many people to have the same ideas, suggestions, frustrations etc.

OH a new and constructive thread! ..not.

thing is, there is no “zerker problem”. There is only a problem with people unwilling – for whatever reason – to adapt to a given environment. There will always be a best gear for given circumstances, if it moves away from zerker to another set, that will not solve those people´s issue.

What’s the problem with zerker gear anyways?

X T D.6458:

Veydar.5017:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Meta-does-not-mean-Most-Effective/first#post4714956

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/suggestion-A-way-to-shake-dungeon-meta/first#post4715764

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Meta-has-to-end

There should be a fee of 100g attached to the creation of any thread about “zerk meta” and all its variations.

To be fair not everyone stays on top of every forum post about every topic, and this is a forum, people can talk about anything game related. Its normal for many people to have the same ideas, suggestions, frustrations etc.

Those are valid points and as a regular reader I may overreact to these threads but “Zerk Meta” is really a very prominent topic. Just now there’s a 700+ reddit post and at least 2 or 3 active threads on the forums. The lack of a search feature does promote these redundant discussions but I still feel like a quick google search might eliminate some of these threads.
People do bring up points that appear valid to them and sometimes they even do a bit of research or brainstorming how one could change the current meta. Why not invest some of that time into looking for similar threads, since it might save you the remainder of the time that would have gone into a new thread?

Veydar.5017:

The lack of a search feature

I’m not sure what you mean with this? The forum search function is not the most optimized search tool I’ve seen, but it worked 100%.

Or am I missing something?

Dedlaw.9130:

Veydar.5017:

The lack of a search feature

I’m not sure what you mean with this? The forum search function is not the most optimized search tool I’ve seen, but it worked 100%.

Or am I missing something?

It doesn’t always work 100%.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dedlaw.9130:

Veydar.5017:

The lack of a search feature

I’m not sure what you mean with this? The forum search function is not the most optimized search tool I’ve seen, but it worked 100%.

Or am I missing something?

It doesn’t always work 100%.

Ah ok

You can try searching for this very thread and it won’t turn anything up unless you spell the exact title.

Dedlaw.9130:

Veydar.5017:

The lack of a search feature

I’m not sure what you mean with this? The forum search function is not the most optimized search tool I’ve seen, but it worked 100%.

Or am I missing something?

This subforum, top of list, stickied: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Searching-the-Forums

Lindbur.2537:

You can try searching for this very thread and it won’t turn anything up unless you spell the exact title.

I did exactly that prior to asking. Tried searching “zerker” and “meta” and it showed all the threads on the first page that had that.

But anyway, moving on

tigirius.9014:

Make bosses have a building crit damage resistance buff. Think about it why should CC suffer CC doesn’t kill bosses and Condi damage already has a limitation because it’s built poorly (max stacking), so fix the crit Zerker mentality by making bosses require coordination by giving them a significant buff against crit burst damage skills then parties would be required to have multiple build types and the Zerker build parties would be dead.

Why?
So people can now enforce the “Knight’s meta” ? Or the PVT Meta?
How would that be better?

Harper.4173:

tigirius.9014:

Make bosses have a building crit damage resistance buff. Think about it why should CC suffer CC doesn’t kill bosses and Condi damage already has a limitation because it’s built poorly (max stacking), so fix the crit Zerker mentality by making bosses require coordination by giving them a significant buff against crit burst damage skills then parties would be required to have multiple build types and the Zerker build parties would be dead.

Why?
So people can now enforce the “Knight’s meta” ? Or the PVT Meta?
How would that be better?

World bosses that cannot be critted are already in their PVT Meta (like Tequatl)

Terrible suggestions and not well thought out.

Can any of these anti-zerker at least get some sort of real combat experience (minimum spar with someone, not booty boxing and pads) however short term it is and complain why your opponent doesn’t get hurt when his fist meets your jaw.

While I think there’s a certain silliness in the brains of those that think everything except zerker is utter garbage, zerker gear is not the problem, and neither are metas.

The problem, OP, is that you seem to think zerker teams are running zerker because they can’t run anything else, or have some bizarre sort of ‘brand loyalty’ to a stat set.

We do not. Make bosses function exactly as you say and you will not, as seems to be your intention, ‘teach us a lesson’ – you’ll annoy everyone that fights any affected bosses no matter what gear they’re using.

And we’d just find the most efficient something-else to go with under the altered circumstances, because we’re adaptable creatures.

So, congratulations! Your idea would, I predict, cost money and time to do absolutely nothing but annoy potentially everyone in the game and maybe, at best, make the meta shift to a different bunch of stats and builds.

Problem not solved, methinks.

Bread.7516:

Terrible suggestions and not well thought out.

Can any of these anti-zerker at least get some sort of real combat experience (minimum spar with someone, not booty boxing and pads) however short term it is and complain why your opponent doesn’t get hurt when his fist meets your jaw.

So you’re countering a terrible suggestion with a terrible argument? Comparing a game’s mechanics to real life?

Seeing as reflection is a terrible suggestion because that’s not how it works in real life, let’s look at a few more unrealistic features:

Buffs? No way, out.
Telegraphs on the ground telling you where not to stand? What nonsense is that? Gone
Instant healing? Regeneration? Pfft, don’t even get me started. Shift-Delete

No seriously, I could do this all day…

I find it funny how some of you think that it’s not a problem. Yes, OP can play how he wants, but that’s just avoiding the problem altogether. The zerker playstyle was never intended. It just became the preferred de-facto meta, because it’s more efficient, and it’s borderline exploiting the A.I. mechanics. Anet just gives it a pass because they refuse to update the A.I. in old dungeons.

Stacking on a boss isn’t tactical at all, and it’s outright laughable. Any other MMO, even action-combat ones, don’t even have this. They have A.I. that responds accordingly to mindless gameplay like this.

Living story bosses are even more challenging. Anet has proved this, but they just don’t want to update the old dungeons with better A.I., as was said during that video interview during feature pack 2.

nexxe.7081:

I find it funny how some of you think that it’s not a problem. Yes, OP can play how he wants, but that’s just avoiding the problem altogether. The zerker playstyle was never intended. It just became the preferred de-facto meta, because it’s more efficient, and it’s borderline exploiting the A.I. mechanics. Anet just gives it a pass because they refuse to update the A.I. in old dungeons.

Stacking on a boss isn’t tactical at all, and it’s outright laughable. Any other MMO, even action-combat ones, don’t even have this. They have A.I. that responds accordingly to mindless gameplay like this.

Living story bosses are even more challenging. Anet has proved this, but they just don’t want to update the old dungeons with better A.I., as was said during that video interview during feature pack 2.

So you’re saying playing as a glass cannon was not intended? In a game where damage takes priority over defence or healing? Where damage avoidance is encouraged over damage reduction?

nexxe.7081:

I find it funny how some of you think that it’s not a problem. Yes, OP can play how he wants, but that’s just avoiding the problem altogether. The zerker playstyle was never intended. It just became the preferred de-facto meta, because it’s more efficient, and it’s borderline exploiting the A.I. mechanics. Anet just gives it a pass because they refuse to update the A.I. in old dungeons.

Stacking on a boss isn’t tactical at all, and it’s outright laughable. Any other MMO, even action-combat ones, don’t even have this. They have A.I. that responds accordingly to mindless gameplay like this.

Living story bosses are even more challenging. Anet has proved this, but they just don’t want to update the old dungeons with better A.I., as was said during that video interview during feature pack 2.

Where is it written that zerker zerging is not intended? Or is it “not intended” because you don’t agree with it?

relevant,

http://i.imgur.com/jJraP8Y.png

Dedlaw.9130:

Bread.7516:

Terrible suggestions and not well thought out.

Can any of these anti-zerker at least get some sort of real combat experience (minimum spar with someone, not booty boxing and pads) however short term it is and complain why your opponent doesn’t get hurt when his fist meets your jaw.

So you’re countering a terrible suggestion with a terrible argument? Comparing a game’s mechanics to real life?

Seeing as reflection is a terrible suggestion because that’s not how it works in real life, let’s look at a few more unrealistic features:

Buffs? No way, out.
Telegraphs on the ground telling you where not to stand? What nonsense is that? Gone
Instant healing? Regeneration? Pfft, don’t even get me started. Shift-Delete

No seriously, I could do this all day…

Taking things too literally, lol that’s one of the worst arguments people can throw back.

3rd person action games, combat. Hand hits face. Not hard to connect the dots see where video games such as this is going towards. Element of fantasy sure, but the core of it touches upon reality. Previous generations of games are limited by technology, though sometimes results can be creatively pleasing, a lot of people like more elements of reality especially on combat; not who has the best macros. Kinect, Wii, PS Move – tries to translate real life movements to video games, technology is pushing towards reality.

Stop forcing a game to be something it’s not. Also, ground telegraphs was implemented for the less skilled. I can’t do this all day because I’m actually a busy person, but please do go on, if it entertains me it would be amusing to share some of me free time.

edit: FYI retaliation, and it’s not commonly a permanent buff for obvious reasons.

Couple of popular and recent action game examples that tries to mimic real elements of active combat while maintaining the fantasy setting. Demon/Dark Souls, Monster Hunter. Is gw2 trying to be a full on action game? no, but it seemse to be going towards a hybrid of action and moba-like (intentionally or otherwise), and in mobas full glass is perfectly viable.

Dedlaw.9130:

nexxe.7081:

I find it funny how some of you think that it’s not a problem. Yes, OP can play how he wants, but that’s just avoiding the problem altogether. The zerker playstyle was never intended. It just became the preferred de-facto meta, because it’s more efficient, and it’s borderline exploiting the A.I. mechanics. Anet just gives it a pass because they refuse to update the A.I. in old dungeons.

Stacking on a boss isn’t tactical at all, and it’s outright laughable. Any other MMO, even action-combat ones, don’t even have this. They have A.I. that responds accordingly to mindless gameplay like this.

Living story bosses are even more challenging. Anet has proved this, but they just don’t want to update the old dungeons with better A.I., as was said during that video interview during feature pack 2.

So you’re saying playing as a glass cannon was not intended? In a game where damage takes priority over defence or healing? Where damage avoidance is encouraged over damage reduction?

I should’ve clarified more. It was never intended to be a meta playstyle. All playstyles were intended, but the zerker meta became the de-facto meta by the community. It was never intended by the developers, and it was also never encouraged or restricted by the devs (from what i’ve read anyway).

Damage was never supposed to take priority over anything else. The self-reliance of the individual was/is the intended playstyle. This is why all classes got a healing and dodge skill. This is why the traditional trinity playstyle doesn’t work in GW2.

Damage avoidance is only preferred because of dodge, but that doesn’t mean it was ever intended to replace damage reduction.

This just proves that gw2 needs balancing for all different playstyles, otherwise you have one role, which ironically, gives less choice than a trinity mmorpg.

Nexxe can you give us source? How do you know that it wasn’t intended? Are you a dev or do you know a dev or did a dev post something about that?

See, more and more of the ppl that see the zerker meta as a problem just quit the game by now (some seem to be still in the game), while most ppl that stay in the game, stay in part because they like how the game is. They like the zerker meta, they like that they can go fast, they like adapt to the game, they like to have little room for error and need to learn the encounter and use active defence over passive defence, they see stacking as a tactic.

So zerker meta is not a problem in the game. Its a different approach that some ppl like and other ppl dislike.

Dedlaw.9130:

Lindbur.2537:

You can try searching for this very thread and it won’t turn anything up unless you spell the exact title.

I did exactly that prior to asking. Tried searching “zerker” and “meta” and it showed all the threads on the first page that had that.

But anyway, moving on

Another option to get the full list of zerg/zerker compliant threads is to click on the OPs name and look at their post history.

nexxe.7081:

Dedlaw.9130:

nexxe.7081:

I find it funny how some of you think that it’s not a problem. Yes, OP can play how he wants, but that’s just avoiding the problem altogether. The zerker playstyle was never intended. It just became the preferred de-facto meta, because it’s more efficient, and it’s borderline exploiting the A.I. mechanics. Anet just gives it a pass because they refuse to update the A.I. in old dungeons.

Stacking on a boss isn’t tactical at all, and it’s outright laughable. Any other MMO, even action-combat ones, don’t even have this. They have A.I. that responds accordingly to mindless gameplay like this.

Living story bosses are even more challenging. Anet has proved this, but they just don’t want to update the old dungeons with better A.I., as was said during that video interview during feature pack 2.

So you’re saying playing as a glass cannon was not intended? In a game where damage takes priority over defence or healing? Where damage avoidance is encouraged over damage reduction?

I should’ve clarified more. It was never intended to be a meta playstyle. All playstyles were intended, but the zerker meta became the de-facto meta by the community. It was never intended by the developers, and it was also never encouraged or restricted by the devs (from what i’ve read anyway).

Damage was never supposed to take priority over anything else. The self-reliance of the individual was/is the intended playstyle. This is why all classes got a healing and dodge skill. This is why the traditional trinity playstyle doesn’t work in GW2.

Damage avoidance is only preferred because of dodge, but that doesn’t mean it was ever intended to replace damage reduction.

This just proves that gw2 needs balancing for all different playstyles, otherwise you have one role, which ironically, gives less choice than a trinity mmorpg.

Just to add a few inputs to counter, for intended playstyle see below or sig.

Ropechef.6192:

relevant,
http://i.imgur.com/jJraP8Y.png

As for dodge, back during development I read it was supposed to not have invul frames but just move you away from the physical hit, they changed it to be easier and probably account for lag. But the concept is the same, completely negate damage by moving away from the blow.

Bread.7516:

Dedlaw.9130:

Bread.7516:

Terrible suggestions and not well thought out.

Can any of these anti-zerker at least get some sort of real combat experience (minimum spar with someone, not booty boxing and pads) however short term it is and complain why your opponent doesn’t get hurt when his fist meets your jaw.

So you’re countering a terrible suggestion with a terrible argument? Comparing a game’s mechanics to real life?

Seeing as reflection is a terrible suggestion because that’s not how it works in real life, let’s look at a few more unrealistic features:

Buffs? No way, out.
Telegraphs on the ground telling you where not to stand? What nonsense is that? Gone
Instant healing? Regeneration? Pfft, don’t even get me started. Shift-Delete

No seriously, I could do this all day…

Taking things too literally, lol that’s one of the worst arguments people can throw back.

3rd person action games, combat. Hand hits face. Not hard to connect the dots see where video games such as this is going towards. Element of fantasy sure, but the core of it touches upon reality. Previous generations of games are limited by technology, though sometimes results can be creatively pleasing, a lot of people like more elements of reality especially on combat; not who has the best macros. Kinect, Wii, PS Move – tries to translate real life movements to video games, technology is pushing towards reality.

Stop forcing a game to be something it’s not. Also, ground telegraphs was implemented for the less skilled. I can’t do this all day because I’m actually a busy person, but please do go on, if it entertains me it would be amusing to share some of me free time.

edit: FYI retaliation, and it’s not commonly a permanent buff for obvious reasons.

Couple of popular and recent action game examples that tries to mimic real elements of active combat while maintaining the fantasy setting. Demon/Dark Souls, Monster Hunter. Is gw2 trying to be a full on action game? no, but it seemse to be going towards a hybrid of action and moba-like (intentionally or otherwise), and in mobas full glass is perfectly viable.

I’m not using anything as an argument, I agree with Zerker being perfectly viable and doesn’t need any changes.

My post was addressing how you claim the suggestions were terrible and poorly thought out, and you then proceed to use an equally terrible and poorly thought out argument to counter the suggestion.

I like this. I enjoy the mental exercise of solving problems that aren’t really problems. Like, I am currently quite vexed by how to solve the problem of having too much money and having too many genuinely good friends and lovers.

Dedlaw.9130:

- snip -

I’m not using anything as an argument, I agree with Zerker being perfectly viable and doesn’t need any changes.

My post was addressing how you claim the suggestions were terrible and poorly thought out, and you then proceed to use an equally terrible and poorly thought out argument to counter the suggestion.

Basically real combat concept – video game translation. It was a tl;dr where I don’t elaborate on how close reality is a basis for active combat in VGs. It’s not a poorly thought out argument, but I did not immediately elaborate on it intentionally for obvious reasons.

nexxe.7081:

I should’ve clarified more. It was never intended to be a meta playstyle. All playstyles were intended, but the zerker meta became the de-facto meta by the community. It was never intended by the developers, and it was also never encouraged or restricted by the devs (from what i’ve read anyway).

Damage was never supposed to take priority over anything else. The self-reliance of the individual was/is the intended playstyle. This is why all classes got a healing and dodge skill. This is why the traditional trinity playstyle doesn’t work in GW2.

Damage avoidance is only preferred because of dodge, but that doesn’t mean it was ever intended to replace damage reduction.

This just proves that gw2 needs balancing for all different playstyles, otherwise you have one role, which ironically, gives less choice than a trinity mmorpg.

Devs don’t determine what the meta is, players do. Players figure out which of the viable options is the most effective.

And damage was always suppose to take priority. Yes, all builds should be viable, but all builds have one thing in common – damage. All classes were made into DPS with different types of tanking and healing spread out over different builds. It’s why you can’t constantly heal or defend – at some point you have to stop and do damage.

So for the players looking to optimize their gameplay, it was just a matter of seeing what does the most damage. If you nerf zerker then something else will just take it’s place. As long as there are people who min/max, there will be a meta and some damage dealing build will be it. Nothing ANet does, no amount of balancing/nerfing/encouraging/restricting, will ever change that.

tigirius.9014:

Make bosses have a building crit damage resistance buff. Think about it why should CC suffer CC doesn’t kill bosses and Condi damage already has a limitation because it’s built poorly (max stacking), so fix the crit Zerker mentality by making bosses require coordination by giving them a significant buff against crit burst damage skills then parties would be required to have multiple build types and the Zerker build parties would be dead.

This will turn only one meta to another: from Zerk to Condi and nothing else.

NOONE are able to create system equally welcoming for EVERY possible spec.

Bread.7516:

Dedlaw.9130:

- snip -

I’m not using anything as an argument, I agree with Zerker being perfectly viable and doesn’t need any changes.

My post was addressing how you claim the suggestions were terrible and poorly thought out, and you then proceed to use an equally terrible and poorly thought out argument to counter the suggestion.

Basically real combat concept – video game translation. It was a tl;dr where I don’t elaborate on how close reality is a basis for active combat in VGs. It’s not a poorly thought out argument, but I did not immediately elaborate on it intentionally for obvious reasons.

I understand what you’re saying, but I think GW2 combat is much too far from being realistic for realism to be a valid reason to disregard a suggestion.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree

tigirius.9014:

Make bosses have a building crit damage resistance buff. Think about it why should CC suffer CC doesn’t kill bosses and Condi damage already has a limitation because it’s built poorly (max stacking), so fix the crit Zerker mentality by making bosses require coordination by giving them a significant buff against crit burst damage skills then parties would be required to have multiple build types and the Zerker build parties would be dead.

Was I the only one to realize tigs is trolling? :P
The was a dead giveaway.
Because we really don’t need yet another anti-zerk thread. -_-

How can you fix something that isn’t broken? Like stated in just about every one of these threads, if you have a problem with zerker, create your own group and say you want everyone but those that use that stat combo. Otherwise, don’t tell people how to play whether directly or indirectly.