Guild Wars 2

So, if you’ve noticed ANET is adding about a new stat set an update (Sinister, Nomad, etc). I don’t understand this logic. Currently, there are 24 sets, not all of these are available for trinkets, armor, and weapons.

I say there should be EVERY combination.

“Woah, woah, woah. EVERY combination?! That’s like…” (tries to math and head blows).

Yea, thats 9×8×7 combinations. (3 slots, 9 traits not inincluding class specific)

“That’s too much. There’s no way they can add that many.”

Ah, but it’s not. The way they are currently progressing, yes. It’s going to get more and more difficult to implement. It’s going to be a game of “What can we add over x years. And how do we keep balancing / updating that.”

“But everything will be unbalanced!?”

Relax. I will explain why after.

Rules:
1. All stats should be available to armor, trinkets, and weapons (get rid off aquabreather).
2. Any combinations should be available.
3. Scrap current nomenclature.
4. Follow new nomenclature below.

New system:
Players will be able to craft / buy all weapons by following a simple procedure.
(For this example pretend we are talking to an Weaponsmith NPC using drop down menus.)

1. Select item and kind
(Longbow, Axe, Greatsword…)
-Krait Greatsword
2. Select primary attribute.
(Power, precision, healing power…)
-This determines the final descriptor of the item
- Ex. Power: Power
- … … Krait Greatsword of Power
3. Select first minor attribute
(Power , precision, healing power…)
-This determines an the first adjective
-Ex. Precision: Precise
-Precise … Krait Greatsword of Power
4.Select the second minor attribute
(Power , precision, healing power…)
-Ex. Healing Power. Rejuvinating
-Precise, Rejuvinating Krait Greatsword of Power

Precise, Rejuvinating, Krait Greatsword of Power
(Sigils and runes will not be named, but will display on shift click)

[img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2vja8lv.jpg[/img]

The reasons to do this are as follows:
Clarity.
Build diversity.
Content in one update rather than the next 10 years.
Ease of updates (ANET can balance this as much as possible before rereleasing to the public).
Logical nomenclature.
No items have to be added to the game. The player can choose then the item is generated. (Look at WvW badge traders, this would eliminate those huge NPC windows.
Developers would have to do one, albeit, large update; but won’t have to constantly rebalance the game. This will focus the attention on skill balances rather than equipment.

Let me know your thoughts (especially you Developers).

Thanks, United Chi.

Edit: typos

How would the inscription/insignia be crafted? Would a(n) weapon/armor piece with Berserker stats still require Vials of Blood (tier depending on level) to craft? How would the a non-existing stat like Condi Damage, Toughness, and Boon Duration (sounds awful) be crafted? Would it require a mixture of materials like Venom Sacs and Snowflakes?

UnitedChaos.8364:

So, if you’ve noticed ANET is adding about a new stat set an update (Sinister, Nomad, etc). I don’t understand this logic. Currently, there are 24 sets, not all of these are available for trinkets, armor, and weapons.

I say there should be EVERY combination.

“Woah, woah, woah. EVERY combination?! That’s like…” (tries to math and head blows).

Yea, thats 9×8×7 combinations. (3 slots, 9 traits not inincluding class specific)

“That’s too much. There’s no way they can add that many.”

Ah, but it’s not. The way they are currently progressing, yes. It’s going to get more and more difficult to implement. It’s going to be a game of “What can we add over x years. And how do we keep balancing / updating that.”

“But everything will be unbalanced!?”

Relax. I will explain why after.

Rules:
1. All stats should be available to armor, trinkets, and weapons (get rid off aquabreather).
2. Any combinations should be available.
3. Scrap current nomenclature.
4. Follow new nomenclature below.

New system:
Players will be able to craft / buy all weapons by following a simple procedure.
(For this example pretend we are talking to an Weaponsmith NPC using drop down menus.)

1. Select item and kind
(Longbow, Axe, Greatsword…)
-Krait Greatsword
2. Select primary attribute.
(Power, precision, healing power…)
-This determines the final descriptor of the item
- Ex. Power: Power
- … … Krait Greatsword of Power
3. Select first minor attribute
(Power , precision, healing power…)
-This determines an the first adjective
-Ex. Precision: Precise
-Precise … Krait Greatsword of Power
4.Select the second minor attribute
(Power , precision, healing power…)
-Ex. Healing Power. Rejuvinating
-Precise, Rejuvinating Krait Greatsword of Power

Precise, Rejuvinating, Krait Greatsword of Power
(Sigils and runes will not be named, but will display on shift click)

[img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2vja8lv.jpg[/img]

The reasons to do this are as follows:
Clarity.
Build diversity.
Content in one update rather than the next 10 years.
Ease of updates (ANET can balance this as much as possible before rereleasing to the public).
Logical nomenclature.
No items have to be added to the game. The player can choose then the item is generated. (Look at WvW badge traders, this would eliminate those huge NPC windows.
Developers would have to do one, albeit, large update; but won’t have to constantly rebalance the game. This will focus the attention on skill balances rather than equipment.

Let me know your thoughts (especially you Developers).

Thanks, United Chi.

Edit: typos

+1

If they do something like this, crafting would need a huge overhaul.

…I’m not against this in the slightest.

The “discovery” system was a lazy panacea for trying to create a more engaging crafting system, and it flopped. There are several sets that don’t follow the initial pattern at all (Soldier, Dire, Celestial) and require more recipes than the original stat clusters.

I would rather have seen gear have open slots that you put crafted stats into. Item nomenclature as a concept is pretty lackluster to begin with.

Instead:

Weapon (actual type doesn’t overly matter)
Grade: Exotic
Major attribute: [Empty]
Minor attributes: [Empty] [Empty]

“Empty”? How would they be filled?
Inscriptions change to be more specific and less bundled.
Major Exotic Inscription of Power: Crafted from Orichalcum, Ancient Wood, and Powerful Blood. Use to add a Power bonus to a Major slot in an Exotic grade weapon. (Cannot be added to a weapon that already has a Power bonus.)

Minor Exotic Inscription of Ferocity: Crafted from (etc). Use to add a Ferocity bonus to a Minor slot in an Exotic grade weapon. (Cannot be added to a weapon that already has a Ferocity Bonus.)

…and so on.

So, in the end, you could easily get
Weapon
Grade: Exotic
Major attribute: Power
Minor Attributes: Ferocity, Toughness
or any other combination.

Crafting recipes/materials based off of the primary stat would be a simple way to adjust the crafting process.

But yeah, we really need this. It’ll become a bit weird if ascended trinkets keep their unique names though. Plus certain content will need new rewards to replace the lost extra crafting recipes.

Brave Mallyki.1563:

How would the inscription/insignia be crafted? Would a(n) weapon/armor piece with Berserker stats still require Vials of Blood (tier depending on level) to craft? How would the a non-existing stat like Condi Damage, Toughness, and Boon Duration (sounds awful) be crafted? Would it require a mixture of materials like Venom Sacs and Snowflakes?

Ah, I’m glad someone asked this because I’ve been thinking about this too.
Let’s use a (Exotic) Toxic, Vital Orichalcum Axe of Power and assume you can only craft items equal to your level.

Let’s assume (Each item will be a certain rarity only usable for crafting weapons of that rarity). I’m just making what items and what amounts up.

Inscriptions:
Basic Minor – T 1 Materials
Basic Major – T 2 Materials
Fine Minor – T 2 Materials
Fine Major – T 3 Materials
Masterwork Minor – T 3 Materials
Masterwork Major – T 4 Materials
Rare Minor – T 4 Materials
Rare Major – T 5 Materials
Exotic Minor – T 5 Materials
Exotic Major – T 6 Materials

Weapons / Armor:
Basic – T 2 Materials
Fine – T 3 Materials
Masterwork – T 4 Materials
Rare – T 5 Materials
Exotic – T 6 Materials

1)Minor Toxic (Condition Damage) Inscription (Exotic)
—5 Full Venom Sacs
—5 Vials of Thick Blood
—Blank Minor Inscription (5 Silver off Master Craftsman)

2)Minor Vital (Vitality) Inscription
—5 Engraved Totems
—5 Piles of Luminous Dust
—Blank Minor Inscription (5 Silver off Master Craftsman)

3)Orichalcum Axe
—5 Orichalcum Ingots
—5 Ancient Wood Planks
—Axe Blueprints (Free off Master Craftsman)

4)Major Power (Power) Inscription
—5 Ancient Bones
—5 Vicious Claws
—Blank Major Inscription (10 Silver off Master Craftsman)

I think it’s nice to think of this but I need to relearn everything. I rather not bother.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I think it’s nice to think of this but I need to relearn everything. I rather not bother.

The downside to every update is having to learn something new. But think of this as an needed change.

Would you rather:
Learn new stat sets and balances over a long period of time.
Or.
Open up the diversity now, create a solid foundation for the rest of the game, but have to learn a little bit more.

While I’m not against the general idea, some of the proposed suggestions feel like the end result would require _more_materials to craft what what crafting currently costs me. That aspect I can’t say I agree with (sorry, not rolling in either t6 or gold here).

The other concern would be the names of the items just getting a tad bit overbearing.
Sure ‘Ferocious, Precise Pearl Quarterstaff of Power’ tells you exactly which 3 stats it has, but it’s a bit of a mouthful.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

While I’m not against the general idea, some of the proposed suggestions feel like the end result would require _more_materials to craft what what crafting currently costs me. That aspect I can’t say I agree with (sorry, not rolling in either t6 or gold here).

The other concern would be the names of the items just getting a tad bit overbearing.
Sure ‘Ferocious, Precise Pearl Quarterstaff of Power’ tells you exactly which 3 stats it has, but it’s a bit of a mouthful.

Glad you like the idea. The # of mats could change for sure. 20t 6 mats for a major would be extreme.

Couldn’t help but lol at your weapon, sounds naughty.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Crafting recipes/materials based off of the primary stat would be a simple way to adjust the crafting process.

But yeah, we really need this. It’ll become a bit weird if ascended trinkets keep their unique names though. Plus certain content will need new rewards to replace the lost extra crafting recipes.

I’m not sure I understand your first part.

I never thought about how to reward the recipes removed. How would you do it? I’ve been sat here thinking for a while and still can’t come up with a good idea.

I still think my idea would be way easier in the long run than their current method of adding recipes and stats to the game though.

Rauderi.8706:

If they do something like this, crafting would need a huge overhaul.

…I’m not against this in the slightest.

The “discovery” system was a lazy panacea for trying to create a more engaging crafting system, and it flopped. There are several sets that don’t follow the initial pattern at all (Soldier, Dire, Celestial) and require more recipes than the original stat clusters.

I would rather have seen gear have open slots that you put crafted stats into. Item nomenclature as a concept is pretty lackluster to begin with.

Instead:

Weapon (actual type doesn’t overly matter)
Grade: Exotic
Major attribute: [Empty]
Minor attributes: [Empty] [Empty]

“Empty”? How would they be filled?
Inscriptions change to be more specific and less bundled.
Major Exotic Inscription of Power: Crafted from Orichalcum, Ancient Wood, and Powerful Blood. Use to add a Power bonus to a Major slot in an Exotic grade weapon. (Cannot be added to a weapon that already has a Power bonus.)

Minor Exotic Inscription of Ferocity: Crafted from (etc). Use to add a Ferocity bonus to a Minor slot in an Exotic grade weapon. (Cannot be added to a weapon that already has a Ferocity Bonus.)

…and so on.

So, in the end, you could easily get
Weapon
Grade: Exotic
Major attribute: Power
Minor Attributes: Ferocity, Toughness
or any other combination.

I never thought about celestial, etc gear either. Your idea is pretty great too! What if for each stat you add it slowly degrades to a celestial-ish stat.

Ex.
3 stats
-15
-10
-10

4 stats
-13
-8
-8
-6

5 stats
-11
-7
-7
-7
-3

etc. I think the idea is in the right direction, but following my nomenclature it would be something ridiculous name like: Powerful, precise, toxic, chronic Krait Greatsword of Rejuvenation. lol. It would be beyond ridiculous.

I figure Celestial would just be split into three chunks: 1 major and 2 minors (plus the bonus for being Celestial). So Celestial wouldn’t have the usual naming limit.

Which actually opens up a lot of flexibility!

Example Sword of Cover Your Kitten In Stats:
Major: Power
Minor: Celestial, Celestial

or the Staff of This Isn’t That Kind of MMO:
Major: Celestial
Minor: Healing Power, Celestial

It would really help people round out their stats without having to “/wiki nomenclature” every time they want to adjust their gear. ( I’m currently going through that with my ranger ;_; )

Rauderi.8706:

I figure Celestial would just be split into three chunks: 1 major and 2 minors (plus the bonus for being Celestial). So Celestial wouldn’t have the usual naming limit.

Which actually opens up a lot of flexibility!

Example Sword of Cover Your Kitten In Stats:
Major: Power
Minor: Celestial, Celestial

or the Staff of This Isn’t That Kind of MMO:
Major: Celestial
Minor: Healing Power, Celestial

It would really help people round out their stats without having to “/wiki nomenclature” every time they want to adjust their gear. ( I’m currently going through that with my ranger ;_; )

Great idea! The celestial could only be available for minor inscriptions and fill all minor slits.

I don’t get it, you don’t need to know how to make every single stat combo in the game as a crafter, you only need to learn the ones that you want to use…unless you plan on crafting for an entire guild or crafting and selling, which is really a losing proposition for the most part. What’s the point of wiking nomenclature, when you go to craft something, it tells you the stat combos, do you really need to know the name before you craft it? Aren’t you crafting for stat combos and not name?

Zaklex.6308:

I don’t get it, you don’t need to know how to make every single stat combo in the game as a crafter, you only need to learn the ones that you want to use…unless you plan on crafting for an entire guild or crafting and selling, which is really a losing proposition for the most part. What’s the point of wiking nomenclature, when you go to craft something, it tells you the stat combos, do you really need to know the name before you craft it? Aren’t you crafting for stat combos and not name?

The point is to open up all possible combinations. As of right now, there are only a few combinations and the names dondon’t reveal much about what it is, ex. Nomad.

It’s not about the name, but if you wanted a Precision, Vitality, a healing Power weapon. What would you craft? Chances are you end up on the wiki. But if you knew: I need one major Precise inscription and two minor Vital and Rejuvinating inscriptions, it would be super easy.

Think of all the combinations though.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Zaklex.6308:

I don’t get it, you don’t need to know how to make every single stat combo in the game as a crafter, you only need to learn the ones that you want to use…unless you plan on crafting for an entire guild or crafting and selling, which is really a losing proposition for the most part. What’s the point of wiking nomenclature, when you go to craft something, it tells you the stat combos, do you really need to know the name before you craft it? Aren’t you crafting for stat combos and not name?

The point is to open up all possible combinations. As of right now, there are only a few combinations and the names dondon’t reveal much about what it is, ex. Nomad.

It’s not about the name, but if you wanted a Precision, Vitality, a healing Power weapon. What would you craft? Chances are you end up on the wiki. But if you knew: I need one major Precise inscription and two minor Vital and Rejuvinating inscriptions, it would be super easy.

Think of all the combinations though.

A method of picking one’s stats would free up design space as well.
Instead of one ingredient for each prefix/suffix, leading to needing an ever-expanding list of materials (quartz, amberite, etc), we would only need one for every stat and perhaps the Celestial inscription. Eleven total, unless I’m missing something interesting.

We wouldn’t have to suffer with zone-grinding to get the “new, special” inscriptions and insignias that have a limited usefulness, and we definitely wouldn’t have to put up with Soldier/Dire’s outright insulting method of needing to find and salvage Soldier/Dire pieces in order to get the inscription.

Rauderi.8706:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Zaklex.6308:

I don’t get it, you don’t need to know how to make every single stat combo in the game as a crafter, you only need to learn the ones that you want to use…unless you plan on crafting for an entire guild or crafting and selling, which is really a losing proposition for the most part. What’s the point of wiking nomenclature, when you go to craft something, it tells you the stat combos, do you really need to know the name before you craft it? Aren’t you crafting for stat combos and not name?

The point is to open up all possible combinations. As of right now, there are only a few combinations and the names dondon’t reveal much about what it is, ex. Nomad.

It’s not about the name, but if you wanted a Precision, Vitality, a healing Power weapon. What would you craft? Chances are you end up on the wiki. But if you knew: I need one major Precise inscription and two minor Vital and Rejuvinating inscriptions, it would be super easy.

Think of all the combinations though.

A method of picking one’s stats would free up design space as well.
Instead of one ingredient for each prefix/suffix, leading to needing an ever-expanding list of materials (quartz, amberite, etc), we would only need one for every stat and perhaps the Celestial inscription. Eleven total, unless I’m missing something interesting.

We wouldn’t have to suffer with zone-grinding to get the “new, special” inscriptions and insignias that have a limited usefulness, and we definitely wouldn’t have to put up with Soldier/Dire’s outright insulting method of needing to find and salvage Soldier/Dire pieces in order to get the inscription.

Exactly. They’ve only added a few new sets ,and already it’s getting insanely complicated. I doubt they’re going to stop anytime soon. There’s 9 stats not including profession linked (ex. Pet attribute – Ranger), magic find, or agony resistance.

It would be easier for them to fix it now than to realize the current system stinks later.

UnitedChaos.8364:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I think it’s nice to think of this but I need to relearn everything. I rather not bother.

The downside to every update is having to learn something new. But think of this as an needed change.

Would you rather:
Learn new stat sets and balances over a long period of time.
Or.
Open up the diversity now, create a solid foundation for the rest of the game, but have to learn a little bit more.

I’d rather learn 1 stat name at a time, not considering all modifications and things around it. The diversity you say to be created will be offset by stranger combinations like celestial (what are you going to call celestial) and the fact a lot of armors tend to sound more the same…

In practice I do not know the stat combo’s from only a few sets, being magi, shaman and apothecary, as they are not stat combo’s I could see as practical…
from most others I know which stats and the main stat. SO I reallty couldn’t be bothered, And it will , once created, casue the old guard talking stat names and the new talking the new stat language… IMHO a good base for confusion and a waste of time, for the people who will need to translate (player I mean) and the programmers,,,

Also I’ll wait for the way stats will be introduced, if all stats were to be dumped on us now, some people would find it hugely interesting and a lot wouldn’t give a ….

I’d spec into POWER/condition dmg/ condition duration… And have a nice DPS character from that moment on with a decent condition setup as well. I’d take maintainance oils sigils of accuracy and bloodlust and precision/ferocity food, runes with precision and ferocity and just debalance the game. with fury I’d get ~50% crit chance and make all content faceroll due to the fact I am no longer bound by any restrictions…

It would cause a shift to new builds.and would cause the death of the gamne as therew wouldn’t be much top look forward to anymore…

There are quite a few new stat combo’s since launch…

I’ll end with 2 good reasons why not to do so.

1 As power/precision/condition dmg/condition duration are the most powerfull stats in game these would be manipulated into uber builds…
2 because it will make almost all armor invalid, those not fulfilling point 1, all armor not containing 3 of the stats mentioned at point 1 would be scrap iron and rags …
At least for PvE

Sorry to bring up this old thread but I think that there are some excellent ideas here. I just don’t get why the combination of stats has to be restricted. For example if I want to have ascended trinkets for my healer druid without toughness I have to hope to drop the trinkets from the raid bosses (and we all know how likely that is) and even there are no ideal combinations (because they don’t exist at all).

The idea of being able to do every possible combination of stats is very liberating. Trying something like Power, Condition Damage and Healing Power (maybe even Precision mixed in) sounds interesting to me, but such stat combo doesn’t exist at all and with the current system is very unlikely to ever get introduced because new material, name and all that would have to be added and honestly who cares about Healing Power outside of raids.

It just seems silly to me to block build diversity this way…

The Necrotic factor is strong in this one, but the thread shows some serious precognition, the force was strong in this one….

I think I would rephrae my last post and say I’d dred the introduction of

power, precision, condition dmg, condition duration builds
Oh wait We already have them in the new Meta builds: Viper… And they are OP as they shoved all other hybrids aways, removing the need for carrion, rampager and sinister in 1 go (except for a very small niche)

now wait for the
power, precision, healing. boon duration for healers/tanks removing need for zealot and clerics in PvE
well then
power, precision, ferocity, boon duration for DPS booners (PS warriors, combat guards, revenant and so on) not removing the need for zerk, but adding a layer for high DPS buffing. add a bountiful sharp +100 power, +10% boon duration and food: +20% boon duration and +70 power and you’re done.

effectively making the whole PvE world 1 ultrabuffed dps zerg fest, only not by use of food this time, permanent: also without the use of foods.food would just enhance th builds further.

We’ll see what A-Net conjures up next time.