Guild Wars 2

In one of the first announcment on the converting of skill-points to hero-points Anet has given the idea that someone need to explore a certain amount of hero-challenges to unlock all abilitys and traits. (see: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/ ) Short before the patch with the core-specializations hit, they announced that you will get enough hero-points trough leveling, that you can unlock all core-features at level 80. (see: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-points-and-Spirit-Shards/first#post5187859 )

This was a nice way to change things and before the second announcement there were many critical voices who wanted too play for example WvW without bothering with map-exploration. Now everyone with a certain amount of map-exploration has a stockpile of (atm) useless hero-points and the community is speculating if they are for the new specializations and there utilitys. And I think these speculations are right. But I fear they will bring back the critics from people who like to play WvW only or people who do not enjoy map-exploration, but both groups of people will enjoy or maybe need one or two of these new features. And this is the point were my idea begins.

At the core its simple: Why not buy the heropoints?

The heropoints will be limited trough the number of hero-challenges, so simply buying 5 or 20 or whatever number wouldn´d do the job. So the NPC who sell the hero-points should not sell blank points, he should sell the points from the maps. The idea is, that you could go to the NPC select maybe “Caledon Forest” and get all hero-challenges of this particular map done aka you gain the exact amount af 7 hero-points the Caledon Forest has to offer. Should you has done maybe 3 off the 7 hero-challenges you will get simply the rest done aka you get the rest 4 hero-points.

What could be the price of this?
My suggestion would be 1 gold per hero-point. So in example of the Caledon Forest it will cost 7 gold to unlock all hero-challenges on this map. If the specialization tracks cost the same amount of hero-points, then it will cost 60 gold to unlock the full track trough this methode. In my opinion a fair price, but sure a point we can discusse about.

Will this affect the world-exploration?
I think not. Buying all hero-challenges for world-exploration would be 189 gold if you follow my price-suggestion of 1 gold per hero-point. And at this point the person gets only the challenges done, nothing more. He or she has to run the entery map for the rest of it and I doubt a normal player would invest such a amount of gold only to spare maybe an hour for the full world-exploration.

After going this trough my head a second time it seems as a reasonable idea. With this a full fletched WvW-Player will get his hands on enough hero-points to unlock all he wants with gold. Someone who dislike map-exploration can choose if he wants to spend the gold for the points or bite in the pillow and go trough the exploration. And people who likes exploration could ignore this.

Last but not least I have no idea how hard it would be to implement something like this. Furthermore I have no idea if there should be a fix price for every map (like 7 gold for Caledon Forest ignoring the fact that you might already have 5 of the 7 hero-points) or a dynamic one (like to unlock the last 2 hero-challenges cost you 2 gold).

PS: English is not my first language, so please excuse mistakes or bad spelling.

No.

If you want the Hero Points you have to go out and do the Hero Challenges. They aren’t meant to be something that you buy. No to your suggestion.

And you can unlock all skills and traits by simply leveling to 80. They would only need to go out and do Hero Challenges if they wished to do the elite specialization and had spent all of their Hero Points already.

Seera.5916:

And you can unlock all skills and traits by simply leveling to 80. They would only need to go out and do Hero Challenges if they wished to do the elite specialization and had spent all of their Hero Points already.

And thats the point. There are people who dislike or hate doing map-exploration. Some off the hardcore-WvW players have charakters with zero worldexploration. If the system stays at it is in gaining hero-points, when HoT comes and those players want to use or maybe must use a specialization on one of this charakters with zero exploration, he is forced to go and make the challenges.

Before some amount of time PvE players were forced to go into WvW to get the 100% world-exploration. Many PvE player who disliked or hated WvW criticized this system. And they were right about it to a certain amount. (After a long time) Anet changed this and excluded the WvW-maps from world-exploration. But I fear in the future are WvW players forced to do something they hate, only to fully enjoy what they like. I think this is not right.

Maybe the NPC should stay in the Homeborderland because I thing the WvW players would be the ones who want to use such a feature the most.

Ironicly I myself wouldn´t use such a feature, because I have no problem with exploration. It is not what I enjoy the most, but i would rather go and do hero-challenges than spend gold for the points.

If they allow you to simply buy hero points, you’re going to run into part of the same issue we had before the system change – ie, they will have little to no value because they are too easily obtained.

As it stands they essentially gutted the system with removing the necessity of hero challenges for the core specs and skills.

I like the rewards in the PvP reward tracks, but I don’t like to PvP. I’d like to be able to pay 5g to complete a PvP track and get all the rewards.

niea.7504:

I like the rewards in the PvP reward tracks, but I don’t like to PvP. I’d like to be able to pay 5g to complete a PvP track and get all the rewards.

This.

If things are removed or changed solely to keep players from having to play content they do not like, then they might as well just auto-level everyone to level 80, give everyone every legendary out there, double of appropriate legendaries, full ascended gear and trinkets, and every other reward out there.

Because every aspect of the game that they do not like.

WvW was removed from map completion more likely due to the fact that they are going to add in a new map to the rotation and didn’t want players to have to wait for the right color and right map to come up, even the WvW players, than because PvE players didn’t want to play in WvW.

It’s a slippery slope when they change things so that players don’t have to do content they don’t like to do for rewards. When “I don’t like it” is the only reason they ask for the change.

If you want more hero points than what you get by leveling, play the game and do the hero challenges which is why they are there. Currently they are a maximum you can get, this isn’t your father’s skill points.

To clarify an important thing first: In my suggestion somebody would only be able to buy the points of a map, nothing more, because they are and should be limited. Furthermore Anet could control the value of one point easily trough the “pricetag”.

Seera.5916:

If things are removed or changed solely to keep players from having to play content they do not like, then they might as well just auto-level everyone to level 80, give everyone every legendary out there, double of appropriate legendaries, full ascended gear and trinkets, and every other reward out there.
…
It’s a slippery slope when they change things so that players don’t have to do content they don’t like to do for rewards.

This is a good and fair point. I admint it will be dangerous for the game if suggestions like mine are implemented without toughts. If every “I don’t like it, so give it to me for gold or more better, for free.” will get realised, then someday you can do everything in the game by doing nothing and that would be really boring.

But unlike the PvP-rewardtracks (for example, see niea´s post) the hero-points from map-exploration would be mandatory to get the new specializations and/or utilitys. And so it would be more a “I must do it, to play with the new specialization” as a “I like the rewards but not the content who gives the rewards”.

If we suggest that most likely the WvW-players would be the ones who profit from such an implemation, maybe we should gate the hero-points more for this special group of players. This could be done for example with the pricetag. 1 gold would be easily payable for every player. So lets add 100 Badges of Honor for an example and it should be more addressed to WvW-players only.

What happens to map exploration if a character buys the hero points? Do they count towards map exploration? Do they get a different icon to show the points are bought but not unlocked, and you have to redo them for full exploration?

And if you get to unlock the use of hero points through whatever currency, why can’t I buy an unlock to use a waypoint I haven’t been to yet? e.g. to get someplace for guild missions?

How about the upcoming masteries? If I can pay for character progression (in the shape of hero points for elite specialisations), can I also pay for account progression (in the shape of automatic mastery points/mastery bars)?

If not, why is that pve player over there allowed to progress their mastery bar to gain access to new legendary precursors (and ultimately weapons) by playing their prefered content (pve), and this wvw player isn’t (since they can’t progress the legendary mastery in wvw)?

Hui, thats a huge load of questions you got Rasimir
Let me try to answer them with my own thoughts.

Rasimir.6239:

What happens to map exploration if a character buys the hero points? Do they count towards map exploration? Do they get a different icon to show the points are bought but not unlocked, and you have to redo them for full exploration?

In my scenario you will unlock the hero-challenges like you have done them. So they will count towards world-exploration. As a little reminder, it would cost 198 gold and maybe 19800 Badges of Honor, if we add them. This would be a huge amount only to get all hero-challenges and therefor not really attractiv (for me).

Rasimir.6239:

And if you get to unlock the use of hero points through whatever currency, why can’t I buy an unlock to use a waypoint I haven’t been to yet? e.g. to get someplace for guild missions?

I tought about waypoints too, but dropped the idea, because for everything you need full world-exploration or most of the waypoints now, one charakter is enough at the moment. You can do guild missions easily with the one charakter who has the most or all waypoints. The currency and the items you gain are all accountbound.

Rasimir.6239:

How about the upcoming masteries? If I can pay for character progression (in the shape of hero points for elite specialisations), can I also pay for account progression (in the shape of automatic mastery points/mastery bars)?

Good question. I would say the little detail here is the difference between charakterbound and accoundbound progression. With the new masteries you has to do the gating content one time and get the rewards for all charakters, but if you want hero-points on mutiple charakters you has to do it mutiple times.

Rasimir.6239:

If not, why is that pve player over there allowed to progress their mastery bar to gain access to new legendary precursors (and ultimately weapons) by playing their prefered content (pve), and this wvw player isn’t (since they can’t progress the legendary mastery in wvw)?

To craft a legendary weapon you need to do most likely more or less PvE now and I think it will stay this way. So a WvW player who wants a legendary weapon (new or old, it dosn´t matter) has to do PvE content (like running dungeons for the specific gift). But he don´t need to get a legendary weapon to play WvW the most effectiv way. It is his own choice, if he want some fancy weapon or not. But if he should need one of the specialization to play WvW the most effectiv way, he is forced to get the hero-challenges.

And this “forced” is my mainpoint. PvE players have to yell a long time, that they do not want to be forced to do WvW for world-exploration. So one patch Anet changed that. Why would it be such a big deal if Anet implement a way for WvW players, not to be forced to go out and do the hero-challenges?

Buying hero points would break the system just as much as allowing people to refund them.

Sorry, and correct me if I’m wrong, but this sounds like a very literal pay-to-win model. Don’t want to level, or play the game at all, but want all your skills and traits? Give us money and you can have whatever. That is the definition of pay-to-win and no one wants that.

I almost hate to bump this topic…

If one only wants to do WvW, they will still get ALL of the Hero Points they require to open ALL of the traits and skills for their character simply by levelling to 80. You are not being forced to leave WvW for any reason other than match resets and logout. Buying Hero Points is just silly, and levelling in WvW is so fast that what follows doesn’t apply.

In PVE, Hero Points are soooooo easy to get, that the OP suggestion of disgruntlement and game breaking experience just can’t hold water. If levelling in PVE and you misspend, or change your mind, you can still get easy replacements simply by doing the Hero Challenges in the starting areas;

• Plains of Ashford – 6
• Queensdale – 7
• Caledon Forest – 7
• Metrica Province – 8
• Wayfarer Foothills – 8

That’s 36 spare Hero Points easily obtained by level 15, plus those you get from levelling.

Sorry for bumping.

Wow, I am simply amazed. First about the really, really bad and gamebreaking thing I suggested. And second on how I get the feeling that most people only has seen the headline and don´t read the text at all. Ok, maybe to much text, I tend to long text, a bad habit of mine.

So in short words:
- you can buy the hero-points of a map, after that the challenges are done
- the limitation on the total number of hero-points will be still intact
- this will only matter after HoT is online (aka specialization)

And to prevent abuse while leveling or pay to win, it could only be available for level 80 charakters.

Please tell me, what is the big and bad difference between this suggestion and the former option to pay gold and skill-points to unlock traits?

DieFinn.3594:

So in short words:
- you can buy the hero-points of a map, after that the challenges are done

I’m not trying to be combative here but, if the challenges are complete, you get the Hero Point. What is there left to buy?

OP – I am a bit lost what you even want. As has been pointed out multiple times you get all the hero points you need by level 80. It is better than before where the skill points you had by 80 did not unlock everything. So what is the point? Do you want to buy the traits again for some reason?

Cherokeewill.7504:

DieFinn.3594:

So in short words:
- you can buy the hero-points of a map, after that the challenges are done

I’m not trying to be combative here but, if the challenges are complete, you get the Hero Point. What is there left to buy?

Its simple, lets go trough this one by one (example Caledon Forest):
1. You has nothing on this map, but are in need of hero-points
- Caledon Forest has 7 hero-challenges
2. You go to the NPC and invest 7 gold and 700 Badges of Honor
3. You get the 7 points and the 7 challenges are done, without visiting the map once

To prevent further irritation. If you have done maybe 3 of the 7 already, you get only! the last remaining 4 points. Simple as that.

Why do you want to do that though? Map completion and just lazy?

DieFinn.3594:

There are people who dislike or hate doing map-exploration. Some off the hardcore-WvW players have charakters with zero worldexploration.

Those hardcore WvWers also level 80, because they know that playing an upleveled rallybot can significantly hurt your team.

(Also, easy solution: do your skill points while sitting in the reset night queue.)

While I’m not opposed to players obtaining Hero Points without having to PvE, I think there are flaws in the OP’s suggested method.

• The system is designed to have a cap on the total points available. Allowing purchase increases the total points available, essentially making the cap meaningless.
• Gold is already used for far to many things in GW2. Creating even more reasons to farm seems redundant and ill-considered.
• Rapid Gold acquisition requires far more commitment to farm than it would take to run around and click on Challenges. I can get a whole zone’s worth of points far faster than I accumulate 7 gold, for instance. This creates a discrepancy in the amount of effort to earn a single point.
• PvP only players might be getting access to Elite Specs without having to unlock. All core specs and skills are available to a new character immediately in the sPvP lobby. If ANet will depart from this stance for the Elite Specs, I haven’t heard it yet. That means that the issue only impacts WvW-only or PvP-WvW-only players.
• Farming gold is done far more easily in PvE (or in EotM which might as well be PvE). This means that you’d be designing a work-around for wanting to play WvW-only that could channel players into PvE anyway.

How would I do it so that WvW players could obtain their HP in WvW?

1. Implement a new WvW rank track for Hero Points that caps at the same number of points available via challenges. Update this number as Challenges are added to the game.
2. Adjust the number of Wvw Rank points needed so that the amount of time spent actively pursuing the total points is roughly the same. This would take some skull work and testing. Use an intern.
3. Create a one-time choice option for Hero Points over the 398 obtained for being L80. Players choose to obtain them via Hero Challenges or via WvW ranks.
4. If they choose Challenges, they do the limited Challenges.
5. If they choose WvW ranks, they get theirs by playing WvW.
6. If they already have some from PvE, the system subtracts that number (which is already in a data base) from the total available via ranks. That number becomes their new baseline.

That’s a notional system that undoubtedly has its own flaws, the largest of which would likely be resources to create and implement.

ASP.8093:

(Also, easy solution: do your skill points while sitting in the reset night queue.)

Thats the best I read so far. Thank you for giving me the feeling that you read more than the headline Maybe the group who profit from such an option is to small to even bother. Why should I even bother, I have no problem in doing map-exploration and so the challenges.

Menadena.7482:

OP – I am a bit lost what you even want. As has been pointed out multiple times you get all the hero points you need by level 80. It is better than before where the skill points you had by 80 did not unlock everything. So what is the point? Do you want to buy the traits again for some reason?

You on the other hand. You give me the feeling you read near to nothing. I have pointed out multiple times that this will first show effect when HoT hits. Because only then comes new specializations and so on. Believe it or not, I figured myself, that I can unlock all coretraits and utilitys at level 80.

And to the rest. Do not bother anymore. Only 24 h and I have enough of the forum for a year. Why should I bother and think about other players or try to make constructiv posts… when they aren´t read by most of the other posters.

Edit: Sorry to you IndigoSundown, it seems i write too slow. This post looks great, but now i must read it trough

IndigoSundown.5419:

How would I do it so that WvW players could obtain their HP in WvW?

1. Implement a new WvW rank track for Hero Points that caps at the same number of points available via challenges. Update this number as Challenges are added to the game.
2. Adjust the number of Wvw Rank points needed so that the amount of time spent actively pursuing the total points is roughly the same. This would take some skull work and testing. Use an intern.
3. Create a one-time choice option for Hero Points over the 398 obtained for being L80. Players choose to obtain them via Hero Challenges or via WvW ranks.
4. If they choose Challenges, they do the limited Challenges.
5. If they choose WvW ranks, they get theirs by playing WvW.
6. If they already have some from PvE, the system subtracts that number (which is already in a data base) from the total available via ranks. That number becomes their new baseline.

That’s a notional system that undoubtedly has its own flaws, the largest of which would likely be resources to create and implement.

This looks really great, I would follow your suggestion. And thank you for pointing out the flaws of my idea. You regained my hope in forumposts

IndigoSundown.5419:

While I’m not opposed to players obtaining Hero Points without having to PvE, I think there are flaws in the OP’s suggested method.

• The system is designed to have a cap on the total points available. Allowing purchase increases the total points available, essentially making the cap meaningless.
• Gold is already used for far to many things in GW2. Creating even more reasons to farm seems redundant and ill-considered.
• Rapid Gold acquisition requires far more commitment to farm than it would take to run around and click on Challenges. I can get a whole zone’s worth of points far faster than I accumulate 7 gold, for instance. This creates a discrepancy in the amount of effort to earn a single point.
• PvP only players might be getting access to Elite Specs without having to unlock. All core specs and skills are available to a new character immediately in the sPvP lobby. If ANet will depart from this stance for the Elite Specs, I haven’t heard it yet. That means that the issue only impacts WvW-only or PvP-WvW-only players.
• Farming gold is done far more easily in PvE (or in EotM which might as well be PvE). This means that you’d be designing a work-around for wanting to play WvW-only that could channel players into PvE anyway.

How would I do it so that WvW players could obtain their HP in WvW?

1. Implement a new WvW rank track for Hero Points that caps at the same number of points available via challenges. Update this number as Challenges are added to the game.
2. Adjust the number of Wvw Rank points needed so that the amount of time spent actively pursuing the total points is roughly the same. This would take some skull work and testing. Use an intern.
3. Create a one-time choice option for Hero Points over the 398 obtained for being L80. Players choose to obtain them via Hero Challenges or via WvW ranks.
4. If they choose Challenges, they do the limited Challenges.
5. If they choose WvW ranks, they get theirs by playing WvW.
6. If they already have some from PvE, the system subtracts that number (which is already in a data base) from the total available via ranks. That number becomes their new baseline.

That’s a notional system that undoubtedly has its own flaws, the largest of which would likely be resources to create and implement.

I am also not apposed to WvW having their own means of acquiring Hero Points, and your suggestion has merit. However, considering how your system works, taking the bolded into consideration, how would it work in reverse? IE the WvW player purchases HP via this rank track, but now decides they need to do map completion for whatever reason. Do hero challenges award nothing for doing them? Are they presented as “already done”? (Which, that could pose it’s own issues). Do they get the standard hero point for doing them, thus making the cap pointless?

Should the modes be split apart and hero points acquired in pve only work in pve and points acquired in wvw only work in wvw?

There doesn’t feel like there is an elegant way to deal with this potential flaw.

DieFinn.3594:

Maybe the group who profit from such an option is to small to even bother. Why should I even bother, I have no problem in doing map-exploration and so the challenges.

[…]

And to the rest. Do not bother anymore. Only 24 h and I have enough of the forum for a year. Why should I bother and think about other players or try to make constructiv posts… when they aren´t read by most of the other posters.

Your problem is that you’re starting with a problem you don’t actually have, so it’s just a hypothetical.

Which leads to people asking “Okay, who is this actually a problem for?”

And the answer seems to be… “No one, really.”

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I am also not apposed to WvW having their own means of acquiring Hero Points, and your suggestion has merit. However, considering how your system works, taking the bolded into consideration, how would it work in reverse? IE the WvW player purchases HP via this rank track, but now decides they need to do map completion for whatever reason. Do hero challenges award nothing for doing them? Are they presented as “already done”? (Which, that could pose it’s own issues). Do they get the standard hero point for doing them, thus making the cap pointless?

Should the modes be split apart and hero points acquired in pve only work in pve and points acquired in wvw only work in wvw?

There doesn’t feel like there is an elegant way to deal with this potential flaw.

Without knowing the programming side of it, it’s hard to know what would work best. Spitballing, however …

Goal: Preserve the integrity of both the HP cap and the requirements of Map Comp.

System: If HP via WvW ranks is chosen, Hero Challenges in PvE maps would still work and count/be required for map comp, but whatever command is used to cause them to “add one to total HP count” would be disabled.

Negatives: Hero Challenges in PvE would be slightly less rewarding. However, if a WvW-only player suddenly decides to do map completion, her/his goal is map completion. S/he still gets map comp rewards and the gifts. S/he would not be doing map comp to get HP, having already made the decision to get them via WvW and therefore should not be complaining (note: should not and will not are not the same). Conversely, a PvE-only player who suddenly decides to WvW would still have many reward tracks to pump his WvW rank points into, producing little to no negative impact.

Another potential flaw would be the edge-cases who decide on one way and then later (while partway done) change their preferred playstyle (they suddenly decide they no longer want to WvW or PvE). While I’m not sure that their complaint would be any more valid than that of players who changed their minds and wanted to do Map Comp, I can see them being harder to dismiss. After all, changing the current system would be about accommodation, so they’d feel justified in wanting an accommodation for their change of mind.

Yet another flaw: even if Anet were to decide to accommodate players who have no interest in leaving WvW to venture into PvE, by the time they could/would get around to it, many of these players would have already bitten the bullet, just as many in both groups ventured into an undesired mode to get Map comp done back when WvW points were required. Fwiw, though, catering to PvE only players by removing the WvW Map Comp req gives the WvW-only players a stronger case. They’re now being asked to go into PvE for both Map Comp and HP.

DieFinn.3594:

This looks really great, I would follow your suggestion. And thank you for pointing out the flaws of my idea. You regained my hope in forumposts

I’m glad your faith in gaming humanity has been buffered, for however long it lasts.

IndigoSundown.5419:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I am also not apposed to WvW having their own means of acquiring Hero Points, and your suggestion has merit. However, considering how your system works, taking the bolded into consideration, how would it work in reverse? IE the WvW player purchases HP via this rank track, but now decides they need to do map completion for whatever reason. Do hero challenges award nothing for doing them? Are they presented as “already done”? (Which, that could pose it’s own issues). Do they get the standard hero point for doing them, thus making the cap pointless?

Should the modes be split apart and hero points acquired in pve only work in pve and points acquired in wvw only work in wvw?

There doesn’t feel like there is an elegant way to deal with this potential flaw.

Without knowing the programming side of it, it’s hard to know what would work best. Spitballing, however …

Goal: Preserve the integrity of both the HP cap and the requirements of Map Comp.

System: If HP via WvW ranks is chosen, Hero Challenges in PvE maps would still work and count/be required for map comp, but whatever command is used to cause them to “add one to total HP count” would be disabled.

Negatives: Hero Challenges in PvE would be slightly less rewarding. However, if a WvW-only player suddenly decides to do map completion, her/his goal is map completion. S/he still gets map comp rewards and the gifts. S/he would not be doing map comp to get HP, having already made the decision to get them via WvW and therefore should not be complaining (note: should not and will not are not the same). Conversely, a PvE-only player who suddenly decides to WvW would still have many reward tracks to pump his WvW rank points into, producing little to no negative impact.

Another potential flaw would be the edge-cases who decide on one way and then later (while partway done) change their preferred playstyle (they suddenly decide they no longer want to WvW or PvE). While I’m not sure that their complaint would be any more valid than that of players who changed their minds and wanted to do Map Comp, I can see them being harder to dismiss. After all, changing the current system would be about accommodation, so they’d feel justified in wanting an accommodation for their change of mind.

Yet another flaw: even if Anet were to decide to accommodate players who have no interest in leaving WvW to venture into PvE, by the time they could/would get around to it, many of these players would have already bitten the bullet, just as many in both groups ventured into an undesired mode to get Map comp done back when WvW points were required. Fwiw, though, catering to PvE only players by removing the WvW Map Comp req gives the WvW-only players a stronger case. They’re now being asked to go into PvE for both Map Comp and HP.

Have we taken into the consideration the person that earns points both ways? They earn some in pve, then they earn some in wvw (yes you accounted for the system adjusting for what they already have), and then earn some more in pve, and then go back to earn more in wvw. Another edge case, most likely, but one to take into consideration as there are such cross-mode players out there ( like me ).

Unfortunately, based on comments they’ve made about how long some things have taken to rework or fix, I’m guessing their code is neither very modular nor very clean.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Have we taken into the consideration the person that earns points both ways? They earn some in pve, then they earn some in wvw (yes you accounted for the system adjusting for what they already have), and then earn some more in pve, and then go back to earn more in wvw. Another edge case, most likely, but one to take into consideration as there are such cross-mode players out there ( like me ).

Those who play both modes would have to make the same choice as everyone else — which point-gaining option to select. Currently, one can get, I believe, 13 Hero Points in WvW, with the remaining non-leveling points only in PvE. Since those points are “extras” under the current system, they would remain extra under a new system. At that point, both-mode players would be no worse off than under the current system. They’d be able to get 13 extra points in WvW and would need to get the rest of their HP in one mode, exactly as is the case now. They’d also have the potential benefit of choosing which method they thought would be to their best advantage.

IndigoSundown.5419:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Have we taken into the consideration the person that earns points both ways? They earn some in pve, then they earn some in wvw (yes you accounted for the system adjusting for what they already have), and then earn some more in pve, and then go back to earn more in wvw. Another edge case, most likely, but one to take into consideration as there are such cross-mode players out there ( like me ).

Those who play both modes would have to make the same choice as everyone else — which point-gaining option to select. Currently, one can get, I believe, 13 Hero Points in WvW, with the remaining non-leveling points only in PvE. Since those points are “extras” under the current system, they would remain extra under a new system. At that point, both-mode players would be no worse off than under the current system. They’d be able to get 13 extra points in WvW and would need to get the rest of their HP in one mode, exactly as is the case now. They’d also have the potential benefit of choosing which method they thought would be to their best advantage.

Hmm, all or “nothing” one way or the other, with some minor scenario specific compensations based on existing data. Not saying it’s a bad idea, but how loudly do you want people to scream about now being “allowed” to play their way? Cause you know they would.