Guild Wars 2

Anet please make fun the primary driver of all game decisions? Forget grind, forget gating, even forget esports. Whenever you add or make a change to the game, make sure that it is fun. Ask youself, your testers (do you have any? seriously) if there is any part of it that wouldn’t be fun and why. Then if there is something not fun, address the why or don’t include that component.

My intention isn’t to be hostile. It’s just that fun for a number of players appears to have been overlooked.

Things like hero points that require three or more people isn’t fun when you have to beg people to help you.

Some grind is fine. People generally like to work toward things. But a long grind to unlock another long grind to unlock another long grind is not fun.

Playing pvp matches to work up to an accomplishment is fun. Losing that accomplishment because of bugs, poor matchmaking, and people exploiting is not fun. For example, I enjoy playing pvp to advance my titles. But trying to get the wings is an utter nightmare. It’s not fun.

Somewhere the fun was lost in the calculations on developing new content. Please bring it back.

And for the replies, just because it is fun for you doesn’t mean it is fun for everyone. No one is trying to take away anything from you. Please be respectful to those who are not having a good time.

It’s definitely the right phase to consider emphasis on fun.

This is how mmorpgs go.
1. This mmorpg is like <popular mmorpg name> but with <whatever is different than popular mmorpg>
2. Can’t handle server population, so get new servers.
3. Focus on retaining server population.
4. Further content requires time/money/work.
5. Changes/additions are focused on grinding treadmills and whatever mmorpgs have done to retain population.
6. Player population drops as players stop having fun and don’t know what they really want when they ask for <insert gives us mounts/raids/and everything popular mmorpgs do>.
7. Expansion time! and/or Free to Play!
8. Repeat steps 3-7
9. <This zone is grey, has anyone been here before?>
10. Somewhere within steps 3-8, games just kind of die.

What should the Devs do when one set of players’ definition of fun is counter to another set of players’ definition of fun? Should both methods of, say, acquisition of items be implemented? Neither? Half and half?

Asking/instructing the Devs to ‘make sure all content is fun’ may be more difficult than merely stating it be so.

Good luck.

I think it’s more fun to have hero points that require more people, because the old hero points were so stupidly easy they were no fun. I LIKE having something that requires a bit of effort. That’s fun for me.

That said, not every hero point is fun for me. A couple are stupid hard. That’s the problem though. Everyone has a difficulty threshold that people find fun. So I find the new zones very fun and I enjoy playing in them. I find them more fun than most of the core zones. Because the core zones are kitten easy.

So now where to we go. If we make those points for you, they become less fun for me.

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Whining about whining isn’t whining. But I understand that you hate the game.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Whining about whining isn’t whining. But I understand that you hate the game.

Worst expansion I’ve ever purchased.

PVP – Worse (unbalanced, kitten pips)
WvW – Worse (dead)
New Maps – Bad (All Zerg Fest)
Dungeons – Dead (No Loot)
Core – Given Away (Theft)

GW2 is in a very bad place imo.

And I like it. I already sank a couple of hundred hours in it. People are different, all my friends I know in real life or online mostly like it.

Worst expansion the poster wrote, their posts before expansion where all about worst game they ever played. Very strange what some people enjoy.

Fun?! What do you think this is, a game?!

Certainly a good guiding principle but fun’s so subjective that all they can really do is offer multiple paths to reaching most goals; allowing each player to pick the most fun (or least anti-fun…) path for them personally. Something that the core game does pretty well, but HoT not so much….

All i can say is that after 7000 hours played the wintersday was the last nail in the coffin for me.

Its not that i have a problem with grinding, but i want to grind what i like and not
what they want me to do. And now there isn’t even anything to work towards only
grind to unlock the next grind .. but nothing like new armor skins.

And yes, i had no problems with farming gold, exchange to gems, and then buy the
newest armor skins .. but thanks to the “whiners” we haven’t gotten new skins since
1.5 years .. but yay .. 3 total new sets in a full priced expansion.

New legendary ? Oh .. thanks to the “whiners” i can no longer buy them and don’t
have the mastery points, so i need to grind masses of stuff i don’t like .. great fun.

Christmas .. beside the horrible 10.000 drinks, grear i must also first find some
Super Mario fan who does the jumping for me .. and its always good to give your
account data to other.

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Whining about whining isn’t whining. But I understand that you hate the game.

Worst expansion I’ve ever purchased.

PVP – Worse (unbalanced, kitten pips)
WvW – Worse (dead)
New Maps – Bad (All Zerg Fest)
Dungeons – Dead (No Loot)
Core – Given Away (Theft)

GW2 is in a very bad place imo.

Won’t comment on PvP. WvW changes that were supposed to be in the expansion were delayed, so yeah that sucks. New maps are mostly not zerg fests and in fact, zerging some of that stuff makes it a lot harder. It’s a lot easier with less people. In fact, the maps are designed to break the zerg into sections frequently. Anyone who plays those maps can see it.

Even in something like DS which is a huge zerg in each of the three lanes, there are still multiple side quests along the way further splitting up the zerg, somtimes into 3 parts. So on a full map if you actually have 150 people that’s 50 per lane. Today our “zerg” of 50 had to be divided into smaller groups to actually do what we needed to do, about 15 people in each group. Not a zerg by any definition I’ve heard. The final battle takes place on floating islands and you certainly can’t zerg that.

The core being given away free isn’t theft by anyone’s definition. All it is is a paid demo till you pay for HoT or the core game if you can find it. It’s not the full original game without restrictions. You can’t talk in map chat, you can’t trade gems for gold, you can’t use the trading post fully…I’m not sure how that qualifies as theft. Yeah we get it, you’re not satisfied with the game, but inventing stuff to try to prove a point doesn’t prove anything.

Vayne.8563:

I think it’s more fun to have hero points that require more people, because the old hero points were so stupidly easy they were no fun. I LIKE having something that requires a bit of effort. That’s fun for me.

That said, not every hero point is fun for me. A couple are stupid hard. That’s the problem though. Everyone has a difficulty threshold that people find fun. So I find the new zones very fun and I enjoy playing in them. I find them more fun than most of the core zones. Because the core zones are kitten easy.

So now where to we go. If we make those points for you, they become less fun for me.

I really don’t know what to say. You don’t seem interested in reading other people’s points of view. I addressed this type of response directly in my first post, so I’m not sure if there’s any point in responding to it again.

But this attitude of thinking that making something more fun for someone else will make it less fun for you is selfish and unproductive. Hero points are a perfect example. Rather than a myopic view of thinking about what is lost for you if it is changed, think about what you like about that and how it can be kept or improved in a such a way that pleases more people. Hero points are gating content. For some, it is not easy to get a group to do them, so an important part of game content is blocked for them. If you like having something that requires effort, then there are other ways to incorporate it that doesn’t stomp on other people’s play. For example, there could be other events that require similar effort but instead you get a reward like a suitable amount of gold. Now those who want to unlock their elite classes can do so more freely and you still have content that rewards effort. There’s no reason to be so resistant to trying to find ways to make the game better for more people.

Let’s all try to add some helpful suggestions to improve the game for as many different preferences and play styles as possible.

aji.7456:

Let’s all try to add some helpful suggestions to improve the game for as many different preferences and play styles as possible.

We need more “challenging group content” .. even the tutorial and Queensdale
should require a full group or even raid, and every mob there should be at least
like Lupicus.

Also the wardrobe should be gated behind raids, else you can only use starter gear.

Oh .. and that was sarcasm .. but i think thats more or less what some people here
want the game to be, just like in any other MMO, and sadly ANet is nor catering
for this people and made a 180 degree turn from what it was initially.

So personal i would say :
Go back to your ininitial vision and what we had in the first 1.5 years and add the
wardrobe while we still get new armor sets in the gemshop. The lack of new armor
simply drove me away from the game since only grinding for the next ascended
gear doesn’t cut it if you still have only the same visuals than 1.5 years ago.

I think there needs to be three question asked:

1) Is it fun?

2) Why is it fun?

3) Does it impact the fun of those around you?

Let’s look at HoT Hero Point challenges for an example. If you ask someone like Vayne if it’s fun, you’ll get a “Yes”. Okay, so why is it fun? He likes the challenge, and maybe the need for teamwork. Still good there. So, does it impact the fun of those around him? Well, yes, and badly. If you don’t enjoy that challenge, but still need the HP to unlock your elite spec, it’s a roadblock and not fun at all.

With those three ideas in mind, you can look at it and think of ways to make it better. Say, remove the challenges from the HPs, and make them their own separate and triggerable events. Leave the challenge where it is, and make the HP something close by that you simply interact with, and people will find these challenges as they clear the map and collect their HPs. Now everybody’s happy, right?

It should be noted that question #2 may sometimes come back with less than ideal reasons why something is fun. If it comes back with a selfish or mean reason, then you need to ask if that’s really the kind of “fun” you want in your game. Most likely, you’d be better off in the long run if you toss it out, and let those players wander off to another game.

What if two people’s definition of fun contradicts? If’s fun being the one man army, it isn’t fun for the one man army to trample over you thus the need for class balance is obvious.

Actually, it isn’t even fun being the one man army. I remember busting thieves on my druid quite trivially with longbow and shadow skelk. I won’t even pretend it was a skill issue. I could be better than them, but those duels I don’t count since it was simply hardcounter rock paper scissors (very hard to kite something ranged after all) on top of overpowered vs. underpowered.

People’s idea of fun is different, they enjoy doing different things, I think the game tries to cover them all as much as possible. Problem comes when you have to do the activities you don’t consider fun if you are after certain reward locked behind it.
Not putting rewards behind certain game modes or activities will cause them to be left out and won’t be played as much… giving the same rewards in all modes is also kind of pointless so…. I think the game is ok as it is, there’s always room for new modes/activities/mechanics to emerge for those who enjoy them!

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

You mean like you are doing right now?

There is alot about HoT I don’t like, so what do I do? I don’t play said content. You say people are whining, they are nearly adding there voice of discontent to all the others. It’s not an invalid point or opinion, it just differs from your own.

I think it’s fine that there be things in the game for various demographics. We’re all customers, and no content is going to please everyone. It’s unfortunate that sometimes what is fun for one group is anti-fun for others. As strange as it seems, even grind’s long-term objectives are something some players enjoy.

That said, I think that changing some map exploration objectives from solo goals to goals that on occasion require a group is taking something away from one group to give it to another. The “solo players still can explore Central Tyria” defense doesn’t cut it. HoT is now the game and should offer something for everyone. Also, there are a ton of things in central for group aficionados to do. In fact, anything in the core zones that offers a reward is usually done in groups too large for the content to keep up with.

I’m glad that some people find HoT more challenging. I’m not looking to change that. However, I still find as a late adopter that HoT offers so much less — in proportion to central Tyria, where it’s just “everything rewarding” -- to those who don’t want everything to be a group thing.

espurtz > everything else
Welcome to arena net.

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Whining about whining isn’t whining. But I understand that you hate the game.

Worst expansion I’ve ever purchased.

PVP – Worse (unbalanced, kitten pips)
WvW – Worse (dead)
New Maps – Bad (All Zerg Fest)
Dungeons – Dead (No Loot)
Core – Given Away (Theft)

GW2 is in a very bad place imo.

Won’t comment on PvP. WvW changes that were supposed to be in the expansion were delayed, so yeah that sucks. New maps are mostly not zerg fests and in fact, zerging some of that stuff makes it a lot harder. It’s a lot easier with less people. In fact, the maps are designed to break the zerg into sections frequently. Anyone who plays those maps can see it.

Even in something like DS which is a huge zerg in each of the three lanes, there are still multiple side quests along the way further splitting up the zerg, somtimes into 3 parts. So on a full map if you actually have 150 people that’s 50 per lane. Today our “zerg” of 50 had to be divided into smaller groups to actually do what we needed to do, about 15 people in each group. Not a zerg by any definition I’ve heard. The final battle takes place on floating islands and you certainly can’t zerg that.

The core being given away free isn’t theft by anyone’s definition. All it is is a paid demo till you pay for HoT or the core game if you can find it. It’s not the full original game without restrictions. You can’t talk in map chat, you can’t trade gems for gold, you can’t use the trading post fully…I’m not sure how that qualifies as theft. Yeah we get it, you’re not satisfied with the game, but inventing stuff to try to prove a point doesn’t prove anything.

My ownership of Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 was turned into a joke, it was made irrelevant, it was voided. This is an unpaid permanent access to GW2 This free trial allows a leech to Play 1-80, WvW non stop, PvP non stop, complete all core maps, and craft ascended or get guild comms for ascended trinks and run fractals. They can’t map chat but they can party chat so who cares. They can’t gem to gold? I never have either that’s a plus. They can’t be TP barons… So?

It’s every game mode for free…. Forever, I paid for that access and giving it away is stealing from me that’s my definition of theft.

I bought GW2 because it was Buy To Play, I hate Free To Play games… I HATE them. My purchase of GW2 is now a joke because I bought a Free To Play game. They changed the business model, whether you admit it or not is irrelevant.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Whining about whining isn’t whining.

I think it is. It’s whining just as much as anything else.

Aidenwolf.5964:

It’s every game mode for free…. Forever, I paid for that access and giving it away is stealing from me that’s my definition of theft.

Your definition of theft has little to nothing to do with theft. I understand that some people just don’t like MMO’s going free to play in any way, shape or form. I saw it in SWtOR, where chat was about as vehemently anti-free player as any game I’ve seen. I just don’t understand why.

Theft would mean that something you had was taken away. Well, you still have everything you paid for. Well, most everything. If there was any theft, it was in taking the vanilla guild bonuses and re-purposing them behind HoT guild mechanics and in removing dungeon rewards and putting them behind a mastery barrier that requires HoT. I’m still not sure that qualifies due to that pesky clause in the ToS or UA that says something like, “…the game may change without notice.”

Since I won’t change your mind, why post this? Well, because I’d rather see suggestions for how Anet could meet its goals while preserving whatever it is you want to preserve. Recriminations may make you feel better, but they will have zero impact on ANet going forward.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Aidenwolf.5964:

It’s every game mode for free…. Forever, I paid for that access and giving it away is stealing from me that’s my definition of theft.

Your definition of theft has little to nothing to do with theft. I understand that some people just don’t like MMO’s going free to play in any way, shape or form. I saw it in SWtOR, where chat was about as vehemently anti-free player as any game I’ve seen. I just don’t understand why.

Theft would mean that something you had was taken away. Well, you still have everything you paid for. Well, most everything. If there was any theft, it was in taking the vanilla guild bonuses and re-purposing them behind HoT guild mechanics and in removing dungeon rewards and putting them behind a mastery barrier that requires HoT. I’m still not sure that qualifies due to that pesky clause in the ToS or UA that says something like, “…the game may change without notice.”

Since I won’t change your mind, why post this? Well, because I’d rather see suggestions for how Anet could meet its goals while preserving whatever it is you want to preserve. Recriminations may make you feel better, but they will have zero impact on ANet going forward.

I played swtor when BW took that game FTP I left never went back and will never buy another BW game, ever. I am not alone in this as everyone I play with did the same, you burn gamers you lose them forever.

This wasn’t a sub game, FTP is unthinkable in a B2P game. You pay to get in, removing that barrier destroys the contract with those who bought the key. What was broken was the contract I agreed to when I bought the game. I’ve now paid to be surrounded with FTP leeches who go game to game without spending a penny. They don’t care if they’re banned so they hack, troll, whatever they want. If they’re banned… Re-roll for free. I despise Free To Play.

Vayne.8563:

Even in something like DS which is a huge zerg in each of the three lanes, there are still multiple side quests along the way further splitting up the zerg, somtimes into 3 parts. So on a full map if you actually have 150 people that’s 50 per lane. Today our “zerg” of 50 had to be divided into smaller groups to actually do what we needed to do, about 15 people in each group. Not a zerg by any definition I’ve heard. The final battle takes place on floating islands and you certainly can’t zerg that.

^and that gave me a headache. That may be fun for some but sounds like a production schedule at a place I worked. Which I thought previously when I saw the wiki time schedule… and repeat and repeat. The game I bought was advertised “Battle the dragon change the world”, the game I’m playing is set the timer and kill the dragon every day.

On the OP’s issue of fun. Rather than listing what is not fun I think perhaps we need to list those things that are fun. Bet there could be many conflicting responses. That’s as it should be, everyone has their own taste.

Fun for me is loot, fat loot. I’d like the same feeling that I had when a [Vial of Black Dye] dropped in GW1. And please dial down the RNG machine, those items that drop at a ridiculously low rate feel like the waiter is spitting in our soup. Not getting a drop is not fun. For those who will say “Hey it’s RNG” shut-up your being a jackhole.

I know, totally.

Apparently, much like eating our greens IRL, it’s all about what we “need” in games, now.

Not about what most people want, or would find fun, at all.

Games appear to have become a sort of weird moral lesson in hard work and perseverance.

Ironically, really, given that the more you play, the less actual real life work you’re likely to get done…

Maybe that is the whole idea?

As the computers and robots take over our jobs and render most of us useless (as it is widely predicted they soon will), we won’t even notice, or care, as we’ll be too busy working in games…

OK, that’s just too twisted to even think about. xD

(not the robots taking over part – the part where we wont even notice the difference)

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Whining about whining isn’t whining. But I understand that you hate the game.

It is.

There is nothing in the definition of the word “whine” that states it can’t be used to describe a complaint about a whine.

aji.7456:

Vayne.8563:

I think it’s more fun to have hero points that require more people, because the old hero points were so stupidly easy they were no fun. I LIKE having something that requires a bit of effort. That’s fun for me.

That said, not every hero point is fun for me. A couple are stupid hard. That’s the problem though. Everyone has a difficulty threshold that people find fun. So I find the new zones very fun and I enjoy playing in them. I find them more fun than most of the core zones. Because the core zones are kitten easy.

So now where to we go. If we make those points for you, they become less fun for me.

I really don’t know what to say. You don’t seem interested in reading other people’s points of view. I addressed this type of response directly in my first post, so I’m not sure if there’s any point in responding to it again.

But this attitude of thinking that making something more fun for someone else will make it less fun for you is selfish and unproductive. Hero points are a perfect example. Rather than a myopic view of thinking about what is lost for you if it is changed, think about what you like about that and how it can be kept or improved in a such a way that pleases more people. Hero points are gating content. For some, it is not easy to get a group to do them, so an important part of game content is blocked for them. If you like having something that requires effort, then there are other ways to incorporate it that doesn’t stomp on other people’s play. For example, there could be other events that require similar effort but instead you get a reward like a suitable amount of gold. Now those who want to unlock their elite classes can do so more freely and you still have content that rewards effort. There’s no reason to be so resistant to trying to find ways to make the game better for more people.

Let’s all try to add some helpful suggestions to improve the game for as many different preferences and play styles as possible.

There are hundreds of skill points in the game you can solo. There is very little content in the game, specifically open world content for unorganized groups. I mean Triple Trouble requires organization to beat.

So instead of being myopic and saying this needs to change because I don’t like it, maybe you should be happy for people who didn’t have content like this and finally do. In fact, I find this entire conversation hypocritical.

You talk about fun but what you really mean is fun for you. Because you know, it’s not that hard to get a group together to do those points if you really want to. In fact, it’s probably not fun either way, it’s just easier.

I don’t know anyone in the game that finds hero points fun in the first place. You do them to get the points. You don’t say, wow, I think hero points are so fun I’m just going to run those and nothing else.

^ It’s not really hypocritical, as you can always do stuff in a group, if you want to.

Yes, you may trivialise it, by doing so (if it doesn’t scale), but you can do it.

Whereas, if something is made so it has to be done in a group and is impossible to solo (assuming that is the case, here), then you are effectively removing the soloer’s way of playing the game.

At least, in that way.

Why does everyone think this is such an easy task?

People enjoy different thing.

Look like impossible mission to me ..

Vayne.8563:

aji.7456:

Vayne.8563:

I think it’s more fun to have hero points that require more people, because the old hero points were so stupidly easy they were no fun. I LIKE having something that requires a bit of effort. That’s fun for me.

That said, not every hero point is fun for me. A couple are stupid hard. That’s the problem though. Everyone has a difficulty threshold that people find fun. So I find the new zones very fun and I enjoy playing in them. I find them more fun than most of the core zones. Because the core zones are kitten easy.

So now where to we go. If we make those points for you, they become less fun for me.

I really don’t know what to say. You don’t seem interested in reading other people’s points of view. I addressed this type of response directly in my first post, so I’m not sure if there’s any point in responding to it again.

But this attitude of thinking that making something more fun for someone else will make it less fun for you is selfish and unproductive. Hero points are a perfect example. Rather than a myopic view of thinking about what is lost for you if it is changed, think about what you like about that and how it can be kept or improved in a such a way that pleases more people. Hero points are gating content. For some, it is not easy to get a group to do them, so an important part of game content is blocked for them. If you like having something that requires effort, then there are other ways to incorporate it that doesn’t stomp on other people’s play. For example, there could be other events that require similar effort but instead you get a reward like a suitable amount of gold. Now those who want to unlock their elite classes can do so more freely and you still have content that rewards effort. There’s no reason to be so resistant to trying to find ways to make the game better for more people.

Let’s all try to add some helpful suggestions to improve the game for as many different preferences and play styles as possible.

There are hundreds of skill points in the game you can solo. There is very little content in the game, specifically open world content for unorganized groups. I mean Triple Trouble requires organization to beat.

So instead of being myopic and saying this needs to change because I don’t like it, maybe you should be happy for people who didn’t have content like this and finally do. In fact, I find this entire conversation hypocritical.

You talk about fun but what you really mean is fun for you. Because you know, it’s not that hard to get a group together to do those points if you really want to. In fact, it’s probably not fun either way, it’s just easier.

I don’t know anyone in the game that finds hero points fun in the first place. You do them to get the points. You don’t say, wow, I think hero points are so fun I’m just going to run those and nothing else.

Wow. What a disproportionate response. Also, you once again didn’t read my post. Rather than address what I said, you preferred to make false assumptions about me that are not supported by any evidence.

There are parts of the game that people don’t like. Parts that they have enjoyed in the past but do not now because of changes. I’m trying to find solutions that make more people happy without taking away from others. I’ve stated this several times and provided examples. Yet, you treat me as if I’m trying to rob you of your home.

Hero points are an excellent example because they gate core content from the game. Before HoT you never heard anyone complain about them. You, in particular, never did. However, when the HoT hero points came out a lot of people complained. Because they were not fun for a lot of people, but they were required to advance core content of the game. Anet agreed with this and did change them. You are wrong on this point entirely. It is selfish to want to block core content from people just because it is easy for you. Your situation is not the same as others.

And I am not hypocritical. My change to hero points would provide compensation to those who did like them to require group content. I proposed alternative challenges that are as difficult as hero points and reward players, but don’t block core content from others. I wish Anet had done this rather than just make the hero points easier. Yet you wrote a very lengthy post attacking me for this position. How can someone have a conversation with you? Because I don’t support you side (which I don’t understand at all because you haven’t explained it), you feel free to personally attack me; calling me hypocrite and myopic. Please be respectful, if you want your opinion respected as well.

Finally, I like the hero points in the open world. I do and have run just those and enjoyed it. I’m glad its available and I’m glad there are other types of content available too.

Serophous.9085:

Why does everyone think this is such an easy task?

It’s not easy. But there are somethings that Anet could do to make the game better for everyone rather than just one type of player. What I’m seeing here is that many people can’t even relate to other players. They think that their experience is the only way to play the game. If they are enjoying the game, others are bad people for hating it. If they aren’t enjoying the game, others are bad people for liking it.

I’m hoping that more people who don’t think like that will join the conversation. And those that do and just want to attack people here…well can kitten off.

Tigaseye.2047:

^ It’s not really hypocritical, as you can always do stuff in a group, if you want to.

Yes, you may trivialise it, by doing so (if it doesn’t scale), but you can do it.

Whereas, if something is made so it has to be done in a group and is impossible to solo (assuming that is the case, here), then you are effectively removing the soloer’s way of playing the game.

At least, in that way.

HoT also brought a lot more group content to the game. I’m certainly not against it. But there are a lot of solo players who came to GW2 from the beginning because it was such a friendly game for them. Now it is becoming less so, and many of these players are feeling left out. They don’t need to be.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

What should the Devs do when one set of players’ definition of fun is counter to another set of players’ definition of fun? Should both methods of, say, acquisition of items be implemented? Neither? Half and half?

There are indeed some things that some find fun and others don’t. There are also a few things I’d think many people don’t find fun:

Time gates: I can’t see how these can be fun to anyone, they seem more like an excuse not to bother balancing (like the old dungeon rewards) or a way to get people to log in regularly (like the newer ones; which apparently sounds positive in some business thing).

Grinding: Less so than time gates but I’d still think a lot of grinders just grind because they want to have more stuff than other players, not because they actually like doing the same thing over and over.

Vayne.8563:

There are hundreds of skill points in the game you can solo. There is very little content in the game, specifically open world content for unorganized groups. I mean Triple Trouble requires organization to beat.

Every group and meta event in the vanilla game (except TT and Teq [to a degree]), as well as VB, would like a word with you. Specifically, anything that is any way remotely rewarding in core GW2 persistent world requires at least an unorganized group.

It’s not like people haven’t done the core Hero Points many times by this time, just like the multitude of unorganized groups have done Shatterer, the Orr temple chains, etc. a gazillion times. HoT is supposed to be for everyone, not just those who want group play all the time. After all, it’s the game now.

I cannot believe that you think this game lacks persistent world content for group play. The game is based on that concept.