Guild Wars 2

Now now, no need to get so worked up and blow up snarky stinky bombs al over the thread. I’m having a hard time believing I’m typing to the same person who wrote the post I absolutely loved only a few days ago; I get a completely different wibe compared to it, at least. Multi-user account, perhaps, or just moody?

The hyperbole exageration was mostly reserved as a reply to the second paragraph and the last few lines of the ending paragraph btw.
Moreover, like I said, if it’s implemented properly you don’t need to ‘deal with it’ any more than with people who flame you for failing this event or that dungeon. Or should we have those removed, together with all of pvp and wvw, because people might put flame and blame others when the activity fails?
Rather than my liking the feature (I definitely don’t mind it, however), I moreso think you’re blowing things out of proportions.

@AdaephonDelat, you could duel in GW by inviting people to your guild hall and start a match. It was instanced, simple and easy, and I especially liked doing dodgeball with fact cast 55hp mesmers trying to hit each other with lightning orb, the concept of which was later on implemented as the Dragon Arena.

Duelling in persistent world was something I first experienced in Lotro, and later on a pvp server in Tera. I usually duelled when waiting to do something else, or just to pass time when bored – people who harrass others ad nauseum for duels are likely to do so in other activities, too – so I I truly have a hard time understanding all this paranoia around dueling. And like I said, a dedicated arena at a major town’s outskirts sounds ok, too.

KarlaGrey.5903:

@AdaephonDelat, you could duel in GW by inviting people to your guild hall and start a match. It was pretty simple and easy, and also instanced, and what I especially liked doing dodgeball with fact cast 55hp mesmers trying to hit each other with lightning orb, the concept of which was later on implemented as the Dragon Arena.

Duelling in persistent world was something I first experienced in Lotro, and later on a pvp server in Tera. I usually duelled when waiting to do something else, or just to pass time when bored – people who harrass others ad nauseum for duels are likely to do so in other activities, too – so I I truly have a hard time understanding all this paranoia around dueling. And like I said, a dedicated arena at a major town’s outskirts sounds ok, too.

So the answer would be no then and it was instanced. So why add open world stuff to this one? Why not keep it in guild halls or in specific arenas (like the Bane in Black Citadel)?

KarlaGrey.5903:

Now now, no need to get so worked up and blwo up snarky stinky bombs al over the thread.
The hyperbole exageration was mostly reserved as a reply to the second paragraph btw.
And like I said, if it’s implemented properly you don’t need to ‘deal with it’ any more than with people who flame you for failing this event or that dungeon.
Rather than me liking the feature (I definitely don’t mind it though), I think you’re blowing it way out of proportions.

If they implement it, I expect my ignore list to wind up getting very large in a big hurry, as the existence of an open world dueling option will naturally lead to those that care for such using it. In every demographic, you will find that some are kittenholes.

The kittenholes in the duel-favoring demographic are why I do not and shall never approve of open world dueling in this game, because as much as you lean on the ‘but there could be a toggle and you’d never have to deal with it’ argument, that is just the tip of the iceberg of what I perceive to be the real problem.

The real problem? The attitudes that go along with it. The ‘chicken wuss y u no turn duel on n fite me’ tells, the muppet-flailing in every class forum about how everything is overpowered and underpowered and broken and ‘ANET Y U NO NERF <class> BECUZ LOOK AT DIS <insert screenshots/video of someone trashing someone else>’

Got a toggle for that, have you? Got a toggle for all the permanent uproar that’d come when people realize that classes aren’t and were never designed to be balanced for 1v1? How about a toggle for all the divisive clkittene that’ll explode amongst those fixated on testing everything in 1v1 against those classes that will prove to be utterly dominant in 1v1 as well as against those ‘bothering to play that trash’ that’s invariably the crappiest no matter how you build it in 1v1?

Where’s your toggle for that?

That’s right. You ain’t got one, because there isn’t any. And those are cans of worms we don’t have to open; that, for some years now, have not been opened.

You think some people having a tool to occasionally amuse themselves with duel-favoring friends and annoy others will in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM be worth it to Anet, when they’d first have to develop such tools and then have to deal with the ever-after bawl babying amongst those that would forevermore be obsessed with 1v1 class balances because ‘D/D ELE AMS 2 OP IN DUELZ ANET Y U NO FIX?!’ and so on?

Have you even considered such angles?

Edit: Just moody. Really, I’m not all that much for censoring my opinions’ tone in game forums as I’m not really out to win ‘Mister Congeniality’ awards. I’m just here to say ‘I like this’ and ‘I don’t like that’ and occasionally go ‘Rabble rabble rabble <insert angryface here> and <muppet-flail here>’.

KarlaGrey.5903:

True, although pvp/pve separation isn’t an indicator that a game isn’t, or at least wasn’t pvp-oriented. Once upon a time in a faraway land of alpha, GW2 was likely being build exclusively with pvp in mind (and to an extent, that primordial idea still shows in the present lack of meaningful pve experience), but people went bonkers and did a 180° turn, creating this oversized mess of a pve, while leaving pvp in shambles.

You are speaking about GW1 here. The game that was originally meant to be a pvp game with PvE lobby, then somewhere between launch and Factions went full PvE with an side PvP option most players didn’t use. GW2 was designed from the get go with the PvE casual crowd in mind, that was clear from design info from times when it was still in a concept stages, way before alpha.

On topic: I’d rather that PvP attitudes remained in PvP. I was always in favour of strict mode separation, and i don’t expect to change my mind anytime soon.

@ naiasonod
1) Wait, you’re concerned about forum uproar because of misbalances in 1v1, or perhaps about map chat complaining? Well, you’re a tad bit late on that; those issues have been brought up frequently over the last 2 years in the pvp forum section, because class balance is a greater concern there.
Also, last time I checked, you could turn off chat tabs at will, or was that changed?
But again, are you really concerned about others complaining? I remember you said even in this thread how you had no regard for other people’s opinion, so I am somewhat at a loss now.

2) Classes were designed with self-sufficiency in mind. In practice, each one should at least have a fighting chance vs the other (speccing aside), so if imbalances receive more spotlight, then at least pvp will get an extra case to argue for changes. However the issue would be compounded by gear-related imbalances, but then again, everyone defending ascended does keep on repeating how that tiny lil mini negligable advantage is irrelevant.
On as side note, since you don’t pvp, that wouldn’t affect your gaming experience as such either, as the moaning would be reserved to places outside your activity zones.

3) On the last paragraph – again, chill your beans, as I don’t think forum discussions are worth to have a heart attack over.
Threads about class (im)balance have been a frequent occurence over at the pvp side for the past 2 years, and 1v1 could easily be a subset of WvW, because it’s virtually the same environment minus the player vs zerg, player vs wall, and zerg vs zerg parts.

@Astralporing, given the potency of dps vs cc/support in pve compared to the their potency in pvp – the latter utilizes cc and support to a far greater extent – I can but conclude the system was originally designed for pvp, because pve fails to utilize, due to ill monster design, a great majority of the options in the cc/support department, unless having dps as the be-all end-all of pve had been an intention from the very begining. That would at least shed some light on the reasons why mob encounters were designed in such an subpar manner.

@Adaephon
There are no guild halls, you thilly bean! Even if the expansion will be adding those, there’s no guarantee they will actually have such functionality, or any for that matter.
And sure, dueling can be reserved to special arenas, but I cannot really understand the paranoia around having it as an extra feature elsewhere, too.

KarlaGrey.5903:

@ naiasonod
1) Wait, you’re concerned about forum uproar because of misbalances in 1v1, or perhaps about map chat complaining? Well, you’re a tad bit late on that; those issues have been brought up frequently over the last 2 years in the pvp forum section, because class balance is a greater concern there.

Not nearly so frequently as they would be with dueling in the mix, and I think if you’re not going to be totally irrational you’d have to agree that dueling could do nothing but magnify any arguments that have ever gone before about it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Also, last time I checked, you could turn off chat tabs at will, or was that changed?
But again, are you really concerned about others complaining? I remember you said even in this thread how you had no regard for other people’s opinion, so I am somewhat at a loss now.

Right. Shut chat channels off. I like to use things like map chat for organizing/taking part in organizing world boss pre-events and events as well as generally having access to sociable banter, etcetera, so on. I’m even helpful with some frequency when occasion arises to be.

So no. You can just not have dueling and I, as with everyone else, can have our channels on.

KarlaGrey.5903:

2) Classes were designed with self-sufficiency in mind. In practice, each one should at least have a fighting chance vs the other (speccing aside), so if imbalances receive more spotlight, then at least pvp will get an extra case to argue for changes. However the issue would be compounded by gear-related imbalances, but then again, everyone defending ascended does keep on repeating how that tiny lil mini negligable advantage is irrelevant.

As compared to the zero issues not having dueling raises. I don’t see people bawling and wailing lamentations in the game…well, ever…about there being no dueling. Waiting for a world boss to pop? I don’t see sobbing litanies about ‘man I wish I could duel’. Blasting around Silverwastes? Nope. Dungeoning? Nope. Loitering outside a dungeon for no relevant reason anymore? Nope.

Standing in front of the statue of Dwayna in DR, I occasionally see someone whine about ‘they should have dueling’ and ‘ikr?’ and other comments, but ya know…no issues.

You want dueling and seem to think there’d be nothing but smurfcakes and roses coming of it. Because dueling would somehow be different here than in every other stinking MMO in which its a common factor?

KarlaGrey.5903:

On as side note, since you don’t pvp, that wouldn’t affect your gaming experience as such either, as the moaning would be reserved to places outside your activity zones.

Yeah, because pvp issues never get moaned about every other stinking place in the whole entire game. Everything affects everything – nobody lives in a vacuum and if you hadn’t noticed, Anet’s balances tend very strongly to be game-wide here in GW2.

So yeah, it’d have a very real capacity to affect everyone’s gaming experience, and you’re not doing very well at reasoning this out if you believe anyone would be unaffected no matter their preferred playstyle.

KarlaGrey.5903:

3) On the last paragraph – again, chill your beans, as I don’t think forum discussions are worth to have a heart attack over.

Threads about class (im)balance have been a frequent occurence over at the pvp side for the past 2 years, and 1v1 could easily be a subset of WvW, because it’s virtually the same environment minus the player vs zerg, player vs wall, and zerg vs zerg parts.

I’m barely incensed let alone anywhere approaching ‘heart attack’ levels. I find your reasoning to be flawed and your argumentation irrelevant on most points attempted. You seem to have this expectation that everbody is stupid and has never experienced dueling formats in some to many other MMO’s before, and seem thence to have this mocking incredulity that we’re not, perhaps, willing to give it some sort of chance.

No. Some of us, courtesy of whatever our personal experiences admixtured with our general perceptions and insights, have no interest in giving it a chance like we’ve never seen dueling before and can’t possibly have rather good ideas of how it’d go if its implemented in the fashions most commonly being asked for.

I’ve seen dueling in plenty of other MMO’s. Where its presence has been noticed by me, it hasn’t been noticed for good, positive, useful or sometimes even tolerable reasons. I have had no positive experiences with dueling systems in any MMO I’ve ever played, and that is not hyperbole – that is a fact as derived from my qualitative experience of being an MMO player.

Your mileage clearly varies. I do not care about anyone’s mileage but my own, because caring about everyone’s mileage and overall game balance is Anet’s job, not mine.

I like how you people use personal anecdotes about how absolutely inevitable it is that all the most horrible people in the world will be harassing you all day and night until you’ve filling up your block list with it.

Here’s another anecdote that is worth every bit as much as yours.

I’ve played numerous games with dueling. I rarely do it myself. Almost never ask to duel, and rarely even get asked. I usually lose when I accept, and half the time it’s been my own friend who requested. Nobody talks trash to me when I lose or even if I decline. Generally nothing is said at all in fact. It happened, or didn’t, and we continue whatever we’re doing. I’m not in the business of making enemies and generally I don’t give people reasons to be jerks to me. I’m not sure the same is true for other people who apparently have such a habit of being worth so much attention from so many terrible people.

More often, it might be a friend or random strangers dueling and I’m happy to watch them. Being able to see it happen adds to my experience in the world. I’ve never ever had a single “harassing” experience with it that I can recall. I have with dungeons though.

That’s a whole cluster of content I have experienced little of because of the hostile elitist crowd. So how about we ban dungeons? No? Then what makes you so special to say YOUR little anecdote is worth more than other peoples’? If you don’t like it, or the people who do, then move on and do whatever you do want to be doing. It’s no more a problem than you make be. It’s not like people can even kick you out of content (like dungeons). They, literally, can do absolutely nothing to you. And on top of that you can block and report them in the unlikely chance it even came to that (especially with this community). Many even freak out at the notion of having this sort of thing restricted to only certain arena areas. Even that would apparently ruin their lives or something.

I swear, it’s like some people never experienced elementary/middle school. This hyper sensitivity and “everything must resolve around me” attitude is really unjustified and I’d go as far as to say offensive. How does one even get by in this world day to day like that? I don’t even care that much about this subject and have rarely had much to say on it. But the rampant hypocrisy is getting more worthy of attention.

Kartel.2561:

I like how you people use personal anecdotes about how absolutely inevitable it is that all the most horrible people in the world will be harassing you all day and night until you’ve filling up your block list with it.

Here’s another anecdote that is worth every bit as much as yours.

~snip~

All we really have are anecdotes anyway. There aren’t any datasets with which I’m familiar that can be referenced on the matter, and if such datasets do exist, none of us have access to them. /shrug

Your anecdotes are just as valid as anyone else’s. No argument to that point.

“You want dueling and seem to think there’d be nothing but smurfcakes and roses coming of it. Because dueling would somehow be different here than in every other stinking MMO in which its a common factor?”

I wouldn’t mind it if was a feature, but I don’t have a paricular want for it, nor dislike of it. And hey, everyone is saying GW2 is completely different from other mmos, and how much better the community is! But I rest my case on this part, as it has already been nicely addressed by Kartel.

In general much of my own experience with dueling coincides with that of Kartel, which is why I cannot see your anti-duel policy as anything else but blowing things out of proportion to appeal to readers’ emotions rather than to analyze raw pros and cons of the feature as such.

KarlaGrey.5903:

@Adaephon
There are no guild halls, you thilly bean! Even if the expansion will be adding those, there’s no guarantee they will actually have such functionality, or any for that matter.
And sure, dueling can be reserved to special arenas, but I cannot really understand the paranoia around having it as an extra feature elsewhere, too.

Doesn’t matter that they’re not there yet. They are coming in some way. And as far as I’m aware duelling isn’t. It’s not paranoia more of I like PvE and PvP to be separate. Just in the same way that you love PvP and dislike PvE (well actually you hate this game full stop which throws out the other question of why even suggest something for a game you hate and don’t play?).

So in the same way you hate PvE, some people hate PvP and see open world duelling as PvP encroaching on their preferred game style. An example to help you – What about if 2 minutes into a PvP game all the nodes suddenly turned off and you had to complete a small chain of events to continue your match? You’d be annoyed as it’s not what you wanted from that game mode (and also not what was advertised – co-operative PvE and all that). That’s why people dislike the idea of open world duelling. Honestly I think the best thing would be instanced arenas in cities (like the Bane, or the one in Hoelbrak).

Everyone blows stuff out of proportion. I’ve seen people use all sorts of hyperbole to try to prove all sorts of points.

My own point is simple. I believe, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up, that the quality of the people around me will change if we attract the people who like to duel. It’s a feature I can personally live without.

I’m happy to compromise and have areas where you can, because then I don’t have to deal with it. I’m not saying that it can’t be here. I’m saying that people’s comfort levels are part of their gaming experience and changing those comfort levels affects the game.

I’m less comfortable in PvP situations than PvE situations. I have PTSD and sometimes, PvP situations trigger a response. Sucks to be me.

But yeah it would affect my game. That’s a fact.

KarlaGrey.5903:

In general much of my own experience with dueling coincides with that of Kartel, which is why I cannot see your anti-duel policy as anything else but blowing things out of proportion to appeal to readers’ emotions rather than to analyze raw pros and cons of the feature as such.

With the utter lack of anything we can even pretend to be ‘data’ other than personal opinion and anecdote? Not much ‘analysis’ to do there that isn’t being done.

Framing my opinion with bullet points won’t change it. I could list off all the reasons I dislike the idea and bandy about with lofty pseudo-intellectual references to (misapplied) philosophical concepts and (irrelevant) psychological precents and (inapplicable) game theory, but ya know what, why should I waste five dollars worth of thinking on a matter to which ‘I hate this because I think it sucks’ is really all I need to say about it, as well as all I’d essentially be saying anyway?

There’s no loftier height to aspire to with this – we got our opinions, our experiences and not a dang thing else.

As long as we’re sharing anecdotes…

I’ve rarely dueled in games where the feature was in place. The times dueling was fun for me were when the raid tank (a paladin) wanted to duel my healer (“holy” priest). It was amusing to hear, “Kitten kitten it, Indigo!” over Vent when I feared him while he was trying to cast his self heal. Heh, guess you had to be there.

I’ve also rarely been pestered by someone who wanted to duel when I didn’t. Most times I declined, there were no repeat requests and we each went our merry way. The times requests were annoying (and this happened occasionally) were those that came while I was fighting a mob. Iirc, there was one such occasion where the request was repeated multiple times while I was low on health while fighting multiple mobs. That one was really annoying.

You know, I didn’t like that. I also don’t like blocking people. However, I’ve blocked way more players who were being donkeys in map chat than I have those who’ve been donkeys over dueling. I’d have to say, though, that bad behavior by others in online games has in no way been limited to duelers.

If the introduction of dueling means the occasional run-in with a pest who might otherwise have left me alone, that’s a price I’m willing to pay. Maybe I feel this way because my personal gaming history has not featured the hordes of ravenous, abusive duelers who made pursuing me a thing. Maybe it’s because I favor accommodation and compromise in games. ANet has certainly implemented many features into GW2 that others may have wanted, but that I would have preferred not be implemented. That started way back with Ascended, but is by no means limited to it. I’ve adapted to those, I can adapt to dueling.

Finally, as to complaints about 1v1 balance: we have those now. These complaints do affect balance. Why else did Might and Sigil of Battle just get whacked if not because of Celestial Ele PvPers and WvW roamers?

These complaints are, by-and-large, occurring in the PvP/WvW forums, so maybe the General Discussion folks don’t see them. So, if dueling were to be put in, ANet could also put in a dueling forum and move posts that pop up here, there. Out of sight, out of mind.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Finally, as to complaints about 1v1 balance: we have those now. These complaints do affect balance. Why else did Might and Sigil of Battle just get whacked if not because of Celestial Ele PvPers and WvW roamers?

Adding dueling will do nothing but turn those sparks into bonfires, and were it added, getting rid of it thereafter would be nothing but more problems. Where’s Anet’s incentive to add dueling?

My own total dislike of it aside, pitch it. Sell it to Anet. This and every other thread like it’s made it pretty readily referenced as to what the forum-goers’ opinions are.

Why hasn’t Anet bought it yet?

IndigoSundown.5419:

These complaints are, by-and-large, occurring in the PvP/WvW forums, so maybe the General Discussion folks don’t see them. So, if dueling were to be put in, ANet could also put in a dueling forum and move posts that pop up here, there. Out of sight, out of mind.

Right now, there is no formalized, officially ‘sanctioned’ 1v1 anything. They implement dueling, bam, they’ve sanctioned 1v1 into a legitimate form of contestation.

You really think the tiny little mewlings transpiring on PvP and W3 forums now would hold a candle to the conflagration dueling would invite in by the front door?

Apparently, causality is mysterious. It might be a ‘price you’re willing to pay’ to be adaptable, but frankly, I’m not.

Apparently neither is Anet. August 28, 2012 – time of this posting: no dueling implemented.

I dunno what to tell you people that keep banging on about this apart from that no matter how hard you kick or cry or try to reason with it, this hot dog is prooooobably never going to turn into your personal ice cream cone.

This topic? Its been around since before the game even launched. Apparently far too few people were actually wanting dueling no matter how much noise they made, ’cause there we were, no dueling. And here we remain, no dueling.

The hot dog of August 28, 2012 remains a hot dog today. The feature you’re looking for is not here. It never was here. If there’s any decency or reason in the Anet Eagle’s nest, it will never be here.

Last but not least, why are all the various ideas that even people like me are all in for to do with there being some sort of arena or what-have-you for this sort of thing dismissed out of hand?

I think its because the people crying hardest for 1v1 dueling don’t actually care about anything except making people pay attention to them. I think there’d be no difficulty what so ever generating significant support for a nice little arena somewhere, where people could go and beat the crap out of eachother, yet I see so many suggestions of this sort come and go, to die in silence.

That’s not really what the pro-duelists want. Noooo. What would they not get in such an arrangement? They wouldn’t get an audience wherever and whenever they pleased for one. That, they absolutely would not get in any of the actually reasonable suggestions bridging the differences that’ve come and gone, come again and gone again.

So no. I’m not alone in having fully thumbed-up such ideas elsewhere in this thread’s predecessors, and I am not going to buy your faux-‘high road’ rubbish now. Reasonable and entirely tenable compromises could be reached.

They’re not wanted. Clearly, reasonable compromises don’t count as anybody ‘adapting’ either. If the pro-duelists don’t get dueling exactly as they want it, it doesn’t count and everybody else is being unreasonable, needs to calm down, is just full of hyperbole, won’t give it a chance and refuses to adapt.

Keep pointing so many fingers and you’ll have to start pointing toes, pro-duelists. But until you point them right at yourself, you’ll never be pointing at the real problem, because There is no dueling here and nobody came to GW2 for its robust dueling feature that doesn’t exist and was never promised.

YOU are the problems. YOU are the ones repeatedly sobbing and whining and carrying on for a feature Anet clearly doesn’t care to implement because they have not implemented it nor even indicated that they might in the entire time the game’s been live.

So hey, if you’re so adaptable, adapt to not dueling. And life went on.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Finally, as to complaints about 1v1 balance: we have those now. These complaints do affect balance. Why else did Might and Sigil of Battle just get whacked if not because of Celestial Ele PvPers and WvW roamers?

These complaints are, by-and-large, occurring in the PvP/WvW forums, so maybe the General Discussion folks don’t see them. So, if dueling were to be put in, ANet could also put in a dueling forum and move posts that pop up here, there. Out of sight, out of mind.

We’re already arguing for split of PvE/PvP skill balance, because lot of changes that are done with PvP reasons in mind just don’t have sense when applied to PvE. If pvp considerations were inserted into PvE side of the game, the chance of devs ever listening would definitely drop down.

naiasonod.9265:

Anet clearly doesn’t care to implement because they have not implemented it nor even indicated that they might in the entire time the game’s been live.

To be fair to the pro dueling crowd, there was a Pax interview from 2013 where Colin mentioned it is something they might entertain. Of course that was two years ago and who knows if there has been a change in that train of thought since then. I’m against the idea of open world dueling, but I like to keep things honest.

JustTrogdor.7892:

naiasonod.9265:

Anet clearly doesn’t care to implement because they have not implemented it nor even indicated that they might in the entire time the game’s been live.

To be fair to the pro dueling crowd, there was a Pax interview from 2013 where Colin mentioned it is something they might entertain. I’m against the idea, but I like to keep things honest.

Ok, fair enough, though that’s a very distant thread to hang anything on. Trying to build a platform out of something Colin mentioned two years ago’s not much to go on, and there’s a lot then to now of no such thing materializing to reference.

Even if I were pro-dueling, I wouldn’t be able to look at a Pax comment from 2013 as being much to work with or build any sort of hope upon, that’s certain.

And hey, if they do implement something of the sort, I hope its something like an arena, with some real features and maybe even some community engagement tools to go with it. I’ve seen ideas suggested for NPC’s that can take bets and observer cameras like we have in spvp and all manner of things.

IF they do implement something of the sort, I hope its actually a community-enriching tool rather than just a right-click nuisance device like it so readily winds up being in various other games.

But if some smarmy, crappy right-click ‘issue duel challenge’ thing is all they’d do? I’d rather them not do anything at all.

There’s my view. Whatever Anet does, I hope to hell its actually good rather than the mediocre, abuseable crap so often to be found elsewhere.

naiasonod.9265:

And hey, if they do implement something of the sort, I hope its something like an arena, with some real features and maybe even some community engagement tools to go with it. I’ve seen ideas suggested for NPC’s that can take bets and observer cameras like we have in spvp and all manner of things.

IF they do implement something of the sort, I hope its actually a community-enriching tool rather than just a right-click nuisance device like it so readily winds up being in various other games.

You caught me pre-edit. I agree, if PvE dueling is implemented I would have no problem with it if it were in arenas in designated areas. I think that is a fair compromise for the people that want to duel in PvE and for the people that don’t want to see dueling be a free for all duel mess in PvE.

I noticed that the OP changed their original post to state that people against PvE dueling don’t want to discuss a solution that both sides can accept. I have seen several examples discussing a compromise in this thread alone and in most other dueling threads. Unfortunately, many of those that want PvE dueling seem to dismiss those ideas and simply refer to the anti-dueling crowd as naysayers .

My experience lines up with Kartel’s.

I’ve not run into the constant harassment that some describe as being somehow inevitably a part of dueling in an MMO.

I do however see hostility/etc on a regular (daily or even hourly) basis in:
Open world events (especially with the new daily event system)
Zone wide activity such as Silverwastes.
Dungeons (with a lesser degree of frequency because I do them less often, but at a higher overall percentage)
World boss events.

It would seem odd, to me, to argue that GW2 should not have open world content, dungeons, new zones, events, etc added because some people can be jerks about them.

As far as the argument that people will complain or whine or whatever…they already do. People complain. It doesn’t matter what A net does, about anything really, people will complain. If the company restricts what they are going to develop based only on whether or not people will complain they will not develop anything.

JustTrogdor.7892:

You caught me pre-edit. I agree, if PvE dueling is implemented I would have no problem with it if it were in arenas in designated areas. I think that is a fair compromise for the people that want to duel in PvE and for the people that don’t want to see dueling be a free for all duel mess in PvE.

I noticed that the OP changed their original post to state that people against PvE dueling don’t want to discuss a solution that both sides can accept. I have seen several examples discussing a compromise in this thread alone and in most other dueling threads. Unfortunately, many of those that want PvE dueling seem to dismiss those ideas and simply refer to the anti-dueling crowd as naysayers .

Quite a few of us(Myself included) Who are against open world dueling have NO problems if it was confined to arenas around the PVE world, GW1 had instanced arenas, i have no problem with this what so ever.

It would be kind of cool actually, i do not however want to be asked to duel while im walking through a city, or doing a heart or map completion out in a map (even with an auto decline system, ive had bad experiences with trolls and kittens).

PVE is supposed to be PVE, not with PVP elements added to it(My opinion, one im very strong on, and wont budge on either). Games that have PKing and open world pvp, or duels are games I stay away from, and if anet ever adds dueling and does it poorly, then i will move on, to what i dont know, but my time with the guild wars universe will come to an end.

But as i said, i have no problems with arenas scattered around the open world, Instanced or other wise. The Bane, The arena out in Plains of Ashford, ANY of the Training ground areas for seraph, wardens, or blood legion soldiers would work well too. there are quite a few areas where arenas could be set up in scattered maps around Tyria that could serve as dueling grounds.

JustTrogdor.7892:

You caught me pre-edit. I agree, if PvE dueling is implemented I would have no problem with it if it were in arenas in designated areas. I think that is a fair compromise for the people that want to duel in PvE and for the people that don’t want to see dueling be a free for all duel mess in PvE.

I noticed that the OP changed their original post to state that people against PvE dueling don’t want to discuss a solution that both sides can accept. I have seen several examples discussing a compromise in this thread alone and in most other dueling threads. Unfortunately, many of those that want PvE dueling seem to dismiss those ideas and simply refer to the anti-dueling crowd as naysayers .

This is always the way its, The compromises are ignored, the White knights FOR dueling think they are entitled to everything and are smarter than everyone else, and wont think about the negative things dueling brings. the White Knights AGAINST dueling are trolls and less intelligent people who wont budge because well, they just cant think about all the so called positive things dueling brings.

Its why these threads get locked. they turn into flame wars.

There is no valid reason to not having dueling in game. It should have been there since launch.

Brahmincorle.1264:

There is no valid reason to not having dueling in game. It should have been there since launch.

It is there now. Go and join one in sPvP.

I would like to offer a roleplayer’s perspective.

Arcade-style dueling in the PvE environment can be an extremely divisive topic among roleplayers. The player’s personal twitch skills do not necessarily reflect the abilities of their character, and roleplay itself, when hostile, can really blow up if one side insists on engaging in the arcade elements of the game to resolve conflicts that are literary.

Generally, pvp between roleplayers DOES happen, but it is usually either:

• Literary-style, with actions that are written out, and outcomes that are mutually agreed upon.
• Pen-and-Paper-style, using online dice according to pre-agreed rules, with the understanding that the outcomes of these rng() arrangements will be accepted by both sides.

Either way, we either conduct ourselves cooperatively within the confines of these rules.

Personally… I don’t like arcade-style dueling at all. I only enter pvp and wvw under very specific conditions, and roleplay is almost never one of them.

Some roleplayers came here in the hopes of seeing some sort of dueling system in the future. Some of us came here specifically because there wasn’t one. I am a part of the latter group. My community is small, and I am very fearful that it would become even smaller if this were not implemented carefully, because some of us would respond even more viscerally than I would. They hate – hate – hate this sort of feature, and their buying decisions are strongly influenced by this preference.

In the short-term, I would tolerate dueling provided that it were tastefully implemented. In the long-term, if I couldn’t absolutely embrace the concept as it was implemented, it would probably whittle away at my enthusiasm and I would find a different game.

I made some thoughts on another dueling thread (another dueling thread? no way!) but having read some of the later posts thought up something different.

Guild halls, with an area set aside for it, should pretty much be the only place for dueling. A new “guest” rank could be created so that ppl could be temporarily granted access to the guild hall’s dueling arena. Unlike standard ranks, which can only be edited by the guild leader or perhaps by officers if the leader has granted this privilege, guests can be invited by anyone of member rank 2 or higher. Guest rank resets on log out, character change, leaving the guild hall or having the guest privilege removed by the guild member.

It’s kinda like the GW1 system. By letting guilds have the power to provide dueling, it adds an extra dimension in their recruitment. They can advertise that their hall offers dueling and those will naturally attract pro-duelers while non-duelers won’t have to deal with being harangued by challenges in the open world.

naiasonod.9265:

Vayne.8563:

Dueling has been suggested numerous times by numerous people. It has met stiff resistance from a portion of the population.

Those who want it can’t understand why anyone would be against it or how it would affect them. Those who don’t want it feel it will negatively affect their experience and they don’t want it.

I personally don’t want it and would prefer open world dueling never be added.

I’m in this camp, though I’d be totally fine with there being some sort of duel area in the spvp lobby zone, or some specific map for it, or some gemstore-bought access key to such a map or what have you.

Just not open world dueling. Do Not Want.

Why though? It literally affects you in no way. Its not the same thing as open world pvp. Its like in other games where you accept a duel and only you and the opponent are the only ones who can hit each other.

This thread is like ground hog day. The same thing over and over just like the other threads on this topic. Eventually this thread will die off just like the others with no conclusion. So in the end posting here is pointless for both sides of the argument. It isn’t like Anet has not seen these threads before with the same debate.

I would rather see dueling open to just about anywhere in the game world. It’s typically when I’m waiting for an event to start that I would benefit most from dueling. As of now I just tab out and forget all about the game and miss the event I just waited 30 mins for. Dueling would give me a reason to have the game up when waiting.

Brahmincorle.1264:

There is no valid reason to not having dueling in game. It should have been there since launch.

There is no valid reason to have it. It should never be there. See how easy it is to state something and then have nothing to back it up?

My wife wanted to put a picture on the wall. There was no reason not to let her except I wouldn’t like it. I wouldn’t enjoy the picture. I wouldn’t enjoy trying to craft with two players trying to kill each other around and through me either.

I wouldn’t enjoy duels erupting spontenously when I’m doing other stuff like a jumping puzzle. You don’t think some people might want to duel in a jumping puzzle? It’s an exciting location, but you know, I might not want the distraction there.

There are reasons why I don’t want dueling scattered willy nilly all over the world. You may not agree with those reasons, but it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

SkylightMoon.1980:

naiasonod.9265:

Vayne.8563:

Dueling has been suggested numerous times by numerous people. It has met stiff resistance from a portion of the population.

Those who want it can’t understand why anyone would be against it or how it would affect them. Those who don’t want it feel it will negatively affect their experience and they don’t want it.

I personally don’t want it and would prefer open world dueling never be added.

I’m in this camp, though I’d be totally fine with there being some sort of duel area in the spvp lobby zone, or some specific map for it, or some gemstore-bought access key to such a map or what have you.

Just not open world dueling. Do Not Want.

Why though? It literally affects you in no way. Its not the same thing as open world pvp. Its like in other games where you accept a duel and only you and the opponent are the only ones who can hit each other.

Who are you to say that something affects me or doesn’t affect me. Of course it affects me.

I was crafting the other day and some guy was standing next to me blowing off his skills over and over again, until I had to completely turn off game sound just so I could think. I like the game sound on. That affects me.

I was in a jumping puzzle and a norn was standing right in front of me on the edge of a platform not moving, not jumping and I had trouble seeing through and around him. That affects me. You don’t get to choose what affects other people.

What you’re really saying is that it wouldn’t affect YOU. You can’t tell me what will and won’t affect me.

Fernling.1729:

I would rather see dueling open to just about anywhere in the game world. It’s typically when I’m waiting for an event to start that I would benefit most from dueling. As of now I just tab out and forget all about the game and miss the event I just waited 30 mins for. Dueling would give me a reason to have the game up when waiting.

Funny because that’s specifically the places I’d like to see dueling the least.

Fernling.1729:

I would rather see dueling open to just about anywhere in the game world. It’s typically when I’m waiting for an event to start that I would benefit most from dueling. As of now I just tab out and forget all about the game and miss the event I just waited 30 mins for. Dueling would give me a reason to have the game up when waiting.

Keeping you from alt + tabbing is not a valid reason to add something to a game.

Open world PvP in Divinity’s reach would be perfect..
Kill da sallad!

CMM.6712:

Fernling.1729:

I would rather see dueling open to just about anywhere in the game world. It’s typically when I’m waiting for an event to start that I would benefit most from dueling. As of now I just tab out and forget all about the game and miss the event I just waited 30 mins for. Dueling would give me a reason to have the game up when waiting.

Keeping you from alt + tabbing is not a valid reason to add something to a game.

That’s just one of many reasons. The number one reason being that I find it enjoyable. It would be enjoyable to duel while waiting for a boss to spawn.

Fernling.1729:

CMM.6712:

Fernling.1729:

I would rather see dueling open to just about anywhere in the game world. It’s typically when I’m waiting for an event to start that I would benefit most from dueling. As of now I just tab out and forget all about the game and miss the event I just waited 30 mins for. Dueling would give me a reason to have the game up when waiting.

Keeping you from alt + tabbing is not a valid reason to add something to a game.

That’s just one of many reasons. The number one reason being that I find it enjoyable. It would be enjoyable to duel while waiting for a boss to spawn.

I suppose you’re right. It’d also be enjoyable for me to drop Healing Spring and Spirit of Renewal, and load “Search and Rescue” while you’re trying to duel too.

That’s the number one reason I could see allowing duels into the game. Number two is so I can accept and Point Blank Shot you off a cliff.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Why though? It literally affects you in no way.

There are any places throughout this thread where examples of how it could affect other players are mentioned. But of course it’s better to pretend those do not exist.

Griffith.7238:

Humans get more disgusting by the day.

But not you amirite?

Dueling threads bring out proponents and opponents. It’s always the case. It’ s a contentious topic precisely because it affects people in more extreme ways.
Naiasonod is no ruder or blunter than anyone can be. Hell, I’ve been infracted for weeks and stuck on an hourly flood control for months because of some of the stuff I’ve posted.

Controversial topics being out contentious opinions.

Griffith.7238:

You people need to learn compromise this game is not your baby.

Many people in this thread and others on this topic have offered ideas as a compromise toward PvE dueling. But you, like the many others in the pro dueling crowd have once again chosen to ignore that and act as if those against dueling are just naysayers.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Griffith.7238:

You people need to learn compromise this game is not your baby.

Many people in this thread and others on this topic have offered ideas as a compromise toward PvE dueling. But you, like the many others in the pro dueling crowd have once again chosen to ignore that and act as if those against dueling are just naysayers.

There are just as many people that have offered no compromise as there are that have. This comment was directed as those people. Also you should note I didn’t voice an opinion on how dueling should be implemented (aka don’t tell me I advocate “PvE Dueling”) I just simply said I’m for dueling. I know it was a long post, but perhaps you should read it again.

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Finally, as to complaints about 1v1 balance: we have those now. These complaints do affect balance. Why else did Might and Sigil of Battle just get whacked if not because of Celestial Ele PvPers and WvW roamers?

These complaints are, by-and-large, occurring in the PvP/WvW forums, so maybe the General Discussion folks don’t see them. So, if dueling were to be put in, ANet could also put in a dueling forum and move posts that pop up here, there. Out of sight, out of mind.

We’re already arguing for split of PvE/PvP skill balance, because lot of changes that are done with PvP reasons in mind just don’t have sense when applied to PvE. If pvp considerations were inserted into PvE side of the game, the chance of devs ever listening would definitely drop down.

Imo, that would be a good thing. I’m not in favor of splitting the way skills work across game modes, mostly because I WvW and PvE, and am looking at unranked PvP. I’d prefer that stuff work the same in all modes. That’s less of a concern for things like the Might adjustment, because that’s a passive thing. I’m aware that some players believe Might should not have been nerfed. Some of the same players even complain about how the PvE game is too easy. Think about that for a moment.

Griffith.7238:

I know it was a long post, but perhaps you should read it again.

I can’t as it looks like your post was deleted. Perhaps it was for attacking and belittling another person that posted in this thread. That doesn’t speak well for the pro dueling argument when you do so.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Griffith.7238:

I know it was a long post, but perhaps you should read it again.

I can’t it looks like your post was deleted. Perhaps it was for attacking another person that posted in this thread. That doesn’t speak well for the pro dueling argument when you do so.

Funny because everyone else has been insulting each other all day, but thats ok I could simply copy and paste it right back in with a few alterations. If you think that guy didn’t need to be called out for his behavior then I guess you weren’t reading his posts. I also wasn’t “attacking” anyone I simply posted about an observation I made while reading through the thread. You acting like my one post brings some negative light to duelers when the anti dueling community has been way more irrational throughout this whole ordeal is hilarious.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Griffith.7238:

I know it was a long post, but perhaps you should read it again.

I can’t as it looks like your post was deleted. Perhaps it was for attacking and belittling another person that posted in this thread. That doesn’t speak well for the pro dueling argument when you do so.

Argument of the day: I don’t want something added because even if implemented in a way that I would never have see it or experience it it would still effect me.

I know you do not share these views, but there are those that do. Perhaps you should go troll them instead of me.

Fwiw, posting that someone else engaged in behavior that you found offensive seems to be grounds for an infraction. Perhaps this is meant to encourage reporting the post that you found offensive and letting the mods deal with it rather than responding and possibly perpetuating the situation.