Guild Wars 2

A thought occurred to me recently. What if subsequent chapters of the LS played more like missions from GW1? Anyone who played GW1 might remember this instanced story telling. The LS is already instanced story telling, but GW1 missions had a slightly different feel.

What if like in GW1, LS instances took place in areas that were not part of the openly explorable map where all the players run around, but were in fact their own unique little ‘zones’ with actual terrain-made borders. This would eliminate that red crosshatch border that threatens to kick you out of the instance for wandering too far. It works, but let’s be honest: that mechanic breaks immersion.

I realize this would be a daunting task for pretty much every development team that has anything to do with the LS, but I feel it would be great if they could pull if off. Current LS chapters already have the starburst icon that you have to interact with to enter the instance just like the mission NPCs in GW1. They also have cinematics (though I feel they need to add a ‘skip’ option just like GW1 did). They’re already very similar.

I don’t know, just a thought. Call me nostalgic if you want, but what do you all think? Do you think the LS could benefit from something like this?

If it’s just the position of the instance border that’s the issue there are simpler ways they could solve it.

For example they could ensure that the border aligns with existing barriers, not necessarily the edge of a zone, it could be mountains in the middle which we can’t (easily) climb over or fences or whatever. Then add in guards or rubble or something to block any gaps.

This might mean making some of the instances bigger than they need to be, but I don’t think that would be a big problem and it would add to the immersion by reducing the probability of encountering the edge whilst playing normally.

(The one exception should be the starting instance, so there’s no danger of new and inexperienced players getting lost.)

As for having them in unique areas I actually prefer the way GW2 does it. I like having story missions take place in familiar locations, that can be re-visited for different reasons. It always seemed strange to me that (for example) we couldn’t use the same route through the Shiverpeaks as the Ascalonian refugees at any other point. If we wanted to go across the mountains outside of the missions we had to go all the way up and around, though Stone Summit territory instead of taking the ‘safer’ route between Deldrimor cities.

Danikat.8537:

As for having them in unique areas I actually prefer the way GW2 does it. I like having story missions take place in familiar locations, that can be re-visited for different reasons. It always seemed strange to me that (for example) we couldn’t use the same route through the Shiverpeaks as the Ascalonian refugees at any other point. If we wanted to go across the mountains outside of the missions we had to go all the way up and around, though Stone Summit territory instead of taking the ‘safer’ route between Deldrimor cities.

Agreed.

Another thing from the GW Missions that I’d bring into the LS would be mandatory grouping. The first LS Missions could be 4-man, middle missions 6-man, and the final missions would be 8-man. They could also add a 8-12 man dungeon after each story-line ends like we had with UW/FoW/Urgoz’s/The Deep/DoA.

Galphar.3901:

Another thing from the GW Missions that I’d bring into the LS would be mandatory grouping. The first LS Missions could be 4-man, middle missions 6-man, and the final missions would be 8-man. They could also add a 8-12 man dungeon after each story-line ends like we had with UW/FoW/Urgoz’s/The Deep/DoA.

A couple of points:
1. There was no mendatory grouping in GW1 because of henchmen and heroes.
2. Making grouping mendatory in GW2 would be met with a major backlash.
3. Groups of more than 5 people make little sense since all grouping content currently (dungeons, fractals, pvp and so on) currently is aimed for and balanced for 5-man groups. See for example the effect of AoE skills.

I don’t see how GW1 missions were fundamentally any different than GW2 missions. Prophecies were on their own little maps but the mission areas in Factions and Nightfall became Explorable areas for the most part. Everything in EotN were Explorable from the beginning, I believe.

One change that I would suggest is that the bonus achievements in GW2 be doable on the first play through.

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t see how GW1 missions were fundamentally any different than GW2 missions. One change that I would suggest is that the bonus achievements in GW2 be doable on the first play through.

The biggest difference with GW Missions and GW2 Missions was the mandatory grouping. You had to have a party of at least 4 players or Hench/Heroes to even begin the missions. The henchies AI was so bad in Prohecies and Factions that you pretty much had to grab other players for missions. It wasn’t until Nightfall and Heroes that people began grouping less and using AI to fill out their parties.

Galphar.3901:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t see how GW1 missions were fundamentally any different than GW2 missions. One change that I would suggest is that the bonus achievements in GW2 be doable on the first play through.

The biggest difference with GW Missions and GW2 Missions was the mandatory grouping. You had to have a party of at least 4 other players or Hench/Heroes to even begin the missions. The henchies AI was so bad in Prohecies and Factions that you pretty much had to grab other players for missions. It wasn’t until Nightfall and Heroes that people began grouping less and using AI to fill out their parties.

I completed all of GW1 without the help of other players. Needing to have players/henchmen/heroes is a requirement in all of GW1. Most of the content cannot be completed by just your character alone.

“Suggestion: LS more like GW1 missions”

That would break their ideal of making the world being updated via missions, they try to simulate a world that get its impact from the story and expect all players in the area are part of it, if they change to a closed system only those player that selcted that area will advance and when mission finish they were back to the map has if nothing hapened.

Galphar.3901:

The henchies AI was so bad in Prohecies and Factions that you pretty much had to grab other players for missions. It wasn’t until Nightfall and Heroes that people began grouping less and using AI to fill out their parties.

I did completed most of prophecies with henchmen alone (before Factions was even released). I think the exceptions were Thunderhead Keep and some of the bonus missions.

My biggest gripe with the way GW2 deals with instanced missions taking place on the map, is that they have to change the map. So now if your a new player, or leveling an alt the current LS messes with the PS. Concordia is the biggest culprit with LA being the second. I find mordim vines through out Concordia immersion braking. The Vigil soliders are all like;
“look at our new fort! Isn’t it great?”
“You know there’s a guy strung up by a vine behind you right? And your fort has been trashed by these vines?”
“Yeah your right this fort rocks!”
facepalm

BrotherBelial.3094:

My biggest gripe with the way GW2 deals with instanced missions taking place on the map, is that they have to change the map. So now if your a new player, or leveling an alt the current LS messes with the PS. Concordia is the biggest culprit with LA being the second. I find mordim vines through out Concordia immersion braking. The Vigil soliders are all like;
“look at our new fort! Isn’t it great?”
“You know there’s a guy strung up by a vine behind you right? And your fort has been trashed by these vines?”
“Yeah your right this fort rocks!”
facepalm

It’s a bit of an oversight on their part but they have technical limitations which is why they stated they couldn’t (or maybe it was wouldn’t) use maps specific for the time the story instance took place.

As far as I can tell the current LS missions all have instanced zones with the exception of a few intermediary steps between instances. Which is exactly how it worked in GW1.

In GW1 there were always quests that happened in the regular zones that took you to the mission areas. By the time we hit Nightfall, the missions all took place in zones that you could explore otherwise outside of the missions, just like how it is in the current GW2 living story.

Mo Mo.1947:

As far as I can tell the current LS missions all have instanced zones with the exception of a few intermediary steps between instances. Which is exactly how it worked in GW1.

In GW1 there were always quests that happened in the regular zones that took you to the mission areas. By the time we hit Nightfall, the missions all took place in zones that you could explore otherwise outside of the missions, just like how it is in the current GW2 living story.

Didn’t that happen before Nightfall with Factions though? I’m remembering that upon completing missions, you gained access to that map as an Explorable. Raisu Palace is one such example.

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t see how GW1 missions were fundamentally any different than GW2 missions. Prophecies were on their own little maps but the mission areas in Factions and Nightfall became Explorable areas for the most part. Everything in EotN were Explorable from the beginning, I believe.

One change that I would suggest is that the bonus achievements in GW2 be doable on the first play through.

The only thing that GW2 is truly lacking that GW1 had is simply this:

A sense of failure.

You get wiped in GW1, it was “sorry, you have to restart.” Wiped in GW2? “You’re in the same place you just gotta run a bit.”

In GW2, you can keep going until you give up. There’s no sense of failure. You flub up the Party Politics and a Dues Ex Mesmer happens that resets everything (wut?). But in GW1, if you failed (either by being wiped or by failing an objective) then you failed and you had to start over. This ended with Eye of the North, which was a walk in the park compared to the others – and somewhat joked about because of it in some niche circles (overall, people didn’t think about it).

With Hard Mode in explorables (vanquishing), you got kicked if you hit full party 60% Death Penalty.

You are right that only Prophecies missions took place in areas inaccessible in explorable areas (until War in Kryta, which gave access to three mission areas; and exception of RoF missions, where the mission outpost for the next mission was the ending location of the previous mission).

But yeah, the OP is unnecessary. The suggestion of mandatory grouping would be horrendous if they don’t give us proper NPCs to aid us. The only thing that GW2 missions (and dungeons) really need is a sense of punishment and failure.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a bit of an oversight on their part but they have technical limitations which is why they stated they couldn’t (or maybe it was wouldn’t) use maps specific for the time the story instance took place.

Technical limitations my behind.

If they cared, they’d fix those limitations. In fact, they already said they could but don’t because having a hundred copies of the same map would affect the servers too much… but they don’t need a hundred copies; only two (maybe three)! And when this was brought up… they clammed up.

“Technical limitations” is just an excuse they love throwing about, because the solution already exists in things they have, and when this is pointed out they either ignore it or stop responding. Happened a dozen times, particularly by Bobby Stein.

As long as they’re not FACTIONS missions. All the achievements would be “Do x in y amount of time”.

narwhalsbend.7059:

As long as they’re not FACTIONS missions. All the achievements would be “Do x in y amount of time”.

This. Loved Cantha/Factions, hated the time gated/based missions.

my objection is simple this:

i want to be able to explore every inch of Tyria on my own. i’m already disappointed that Arah is only accessible in a dungeon. in my opinion, Arah, as such an historical and important part of the human past, should be accessible as a landscape zone, just like Cursed Shore, Malchor’s Leap, and Straights of Devestation.

perhaps Arah landscape zone could be a new dry top / silverwastes style zone, eventually.