Guild Wars 2

Vague Memory.2817:

Having a legendary should be more than fx, slightly more damage and selectable stats. I suggest that each legendary have a unique utility slot associated with it with 2-3 unique skills to choose from. I don’t have a one, but it isn’t worth all the effort to craft one at the moment imo.

As someone that has one, I’d have to disagree. Legendary weapons shouldn’t have anything that cannot be directly replicated stat-wise by another weapon isn’t something that should be implemented in the game. While I like the Sigil Swapping idea, as Legendary weapons would get yet another opportunity cost advantage to them (it would, however, have an effectively 0% chance of actually “paying off” the Legendary, without someone being extremely cheeky and literal, in comparison to just making a ton of Ascended weapons with their own Sigil combinations), being able to have an actual stat-advantage or unique effect (that in/directly improves your ability to do combat) is not something that should come about. All that should be worked towards is the skin + any amount of convenience that a Legendary weapon brings to the table (which, as is the point in this topic, is a tad bit lacking due to Sigils being a bit too required for the stat-swapping to really be justified much of the time).

The fact that Legendary weapons can swap stats outside of combat, is only a convenience thing when you look at it from a cost/time investment standpoint. Something that makes them worth their value beyond being pretty skins. For each one Legendary you spend time and Gold making, you can easily craft 10 Ascended—you can cover your bases on every desirable stat combination and have them all use suitable Superior Sigils that makes sense for the build and/or game mode (WvW/PvE) they are intended for.

The convenience of a Legendary being able to swap stats, is somewhat hindered by the fact that you can not obtain, slot and unlock a Superior Sigil into each individually owned Legendary you may have, and then swap between them at your own leisure afterwards.

Let’s make that proposition clear here, so that there should be no misunderstanding in regards to this wish; If you own two Bolts. Let’s call them Bolt A and Bolt B. If you were to slot a Superior Sigil of Energy into Bolt A, it would consume it, unlocking it as a potential Superior Sigil to swap with on Bolt A and Bolt A alone. If you would like to have the option to be able to swap with the same Sigil type on Bolt B, you would need to obtain another one and unlock it on that as well.—Every, individual, Legendary, would need to get a Superior Sigil, and consume it, in order to have it as a swap option for that specific Legendary and that Legendary alone.

Think about it for a second here. A player with a Legendary is semi-punished for having one weapon, even though they can swap stats. There’s more to a build than the stats alone. If you wish to go from a Condition oriented build, to a Power one, you may very well suddenly sit on a Condition oriented Superior Sigil on a Power oriented weapon. If you had just two Ascended weapons covering those build orientations instead, you would not need to swap a Superior Sigil out at all, as you have already slotted the one(s) you want on the Power oriented one, and the ones you want on the Condition oriented one. The time and Gold it took you to make those Ascended, comes nowhere near what it would take to make that one Legendary. So why should a player who invested a whole lot more time and/or Gold, have to spend even more Gold and/or time, if they wish to hop between builds more than once in a blue moon? Why is it so bad if a Legendary is actually.. convenient. From a inventory standpoint. And practically that alone. They aren’t more powerful than someone who makes two-three Ascended. They are barely more powerful than those who wish to just stay with Exotic. You could buy 1000+ of certain weapon types in Exotics, per one Legendary. Keep that in mind.

A Legendary is a convenience item, as well as a pretty skin. Let’s make them actually proper convenient, huh? Not this “halfway there” thing where your Superior Sigil options are severely limited by needing to slot things that fits into both WvW and PvE alike, and both Power- and Condition oriented builds.

Lt;dr

1. Sigil market will crash.

• The suggestion that a person must aquire and equip the sigil to be able to swap to it would appropriately fix this concern. Currently no one except extreme elitists are constantly swapping around expensive sigils. Therefore this change will have very minimal, if any impact on the sigil market.

2. This would make legendaries a “must have.”

• The change that allowed legendaries to have selectable stats was a much larger change than the proposed sigil change. They did not move into the “must have” category. Furthermore people purchase legendaires primarily for the skin. This is obvious when you look at precursor prices for legendaries that have more ugly skins or less particle effects/footprints ect. Those prices would all be the same if legendaries were moving into the “must have” category due to the stats being able to be selected.

3. In 2012 Anet said that ascended and legendary are supposed to best in slot; that this proposed change gives legendary a huge advantage over ascended so Anet won’t do this.

• Anet already changed their stance on this as you can now select stats on a legendary. If Anet stuck with this stance they would have had you choose the stats one time for you legendary.

4. This would save a person too much space if they had a legendary.

• This may be slightly true for the minority of the player base. Few people are crafting multiple ascended with multiple sigils and always carrying around these multiple weapons and sigils. Either way this is not a significant advantage and space issues can be remedied in so many ways you can figure it out.

5. The cost of legendaires will sky rocket along with their matts because this change is too OP

• Again people are primarily buying these weapons for the skin as you can tell by prices of lack luster skins.

6. Other points to consider

• this change is much less significant than the change where legendary weapons became stat selectable. It costs so much more to craft multiple ascended weapons with different stats than to just simply change out sigils once and awhile.
  • most people aren’t changing out their sigils constantly; they simply use their legendary skin on an exotic if they want to have different sigils for something like WvW
  • if you aren’t running WvW there is very little point to ever changing your sigils or stats on your weapon except for possibly slaying sigils which are very cheap.
  • it takes so much time and energy to craft a legendary. You can easily craft 10 times the amount of ascended for the effort it takes to make one legendary. Therefore some horizatonal advantage to a legendary is not asking too much.
  • there are very few dissenters in this thread but they keep posting the same points over and over while mostly ignoring the counter arguments.

Maybe just make extractors be more gem attractive … helps everyone.

Andraus.3874:

Lt;dr

1. Sigil market will crash.

• The suggestion that a person must aquire and equip the sigil to be able to swap to it would appropriately fix this concern. Currently no one except extreme elitists are constantly swapping around expensive sigils. Therefore this change will have very minimal, if any impact on the sigil market.

2. This would make legendaries a “must have.”

• The change that allowed legendaries to have selectable stats was a much larger change than the proposed sigil change. They did not move into the “must have” category. Furthermore people purchase legendaires primarily for the skin. This is obvious when you look at precursor prices for legendaries that have more ugly skins or less particle effects/footprints ect. Those prices would all be the same if legendaries were moving into the “must have” category due to the stats being able to be selected.

3. In 2012 Anet said that ascended and legendary are supposed to best in slot; that this proposed change gives legendary a huge advantage over ascended so Anet won’t do this.

• Anet already changed their stance on this as you can now select stats on a legendary. If Anet stuck with this stance they would have had you choose the stats one time for you legendary.

4. This would save a person too much space if they had a legendary.

• This may be slightly true for the minority of the player base. Few people are crafting multiple ascended with multiple sigils and always carrying around these multiple weapons and sigils. Either way this is not a significant advantage and space issues can be remedied in so many ways you can figure it out.

5. The cost of legendaires will sky rocket along with their matts because this change is too OP

• Again people are primarily buying these weapons for the skin as you can tell by prices of lack luster skins.

6. Other points to consider

• this change is much less significant than the change where legendary weapons became stat selectable. It costs so much more to craft multiple ascended weapons with different stats than to just simply change out sigils once and awhile.
  • most people aren’t changing out their sigils constantly; they simply use their legendary skin on an exotic if they want to have different sigils for something like WvW
  • if you aren’t running WvW there is very little point to ever changing your sigils or stats on your weapon except for possibly slaying sigils which are very cheap.
  • it takes so much time and energy to craft a legendary. You can easily craft 10 times the amount of ascended for the effort it takes to make one legendary. Therefore some horizatonal advantage to a legendary is not asking too much.
  • there are very few dissenters in this thread but they keep posting the same points over and over while mostly ignoring the counter arguments.

All of your assumptions is under the impression of Legendary is still a “cosmetic”
When it’s just cosmetic people pay this much already, if it becomes way beyond just cosmetic, how can the price not affected? Stat change doesn’t change much before they add legendary armors and trinkets yet. If it’s just weapon it doesn’t affect much.

Last note: Just because you don’t care about being at maximum efficiency doesn’t mean other people don’t care. Like I said you can craft multiple ascended for different sigil combination and just put on the legendary skins. You do not need to make 2nd Bolt to do that. It’s in your wardrobe. You guys already mentioned how much cheaper to craft an ascended, so why not just craft one for different sigil choices? Because you’re lazy? Because it waste space? See that’s the exact concern I have. If legendary weapons solve all these issues, then it becomes a mandatory to anyone who want to maximize their performance. (Well if you say people don’t care about being good, then I’m really sad about the community)

Your counter-arguments are all under the impression about legendary weapon still being just a cosmetic. (which clearly is not the case anymore when the sigil swap is available) And your reasoning is all about this “inconvenient thing legendary has” which clearly does not exist when you can just use wardrobe and apply the same skin to any weapons, which is still legendary skin. Idk why people want to stick with wielding legendary when they have wardrobe. I thought you guys said it’s all about cosmetic right? Or is that an excuse or lie? You want way more than cosmetic right?

Aomine it’s hard to understand what you are saying. Legendary is already more than just a skin. I don’t have any other assumption about that…. It’s more than just a skin and people are not paying more for it. I’m sorry we will have to agree to disagree that the value of the weapon lies in the skin not the ability to change stats or sigil. And again changing stats is more advantageous than a simple sigil change as it is so expensive to craft multiple ascended weapons. However even with the stat change ability this didn’t change people’s mind’s in purchasing a legendary as they are going for the skins as I will explain once again here shortly why people are going for the skins over the perks of it being legendary.

Again… I am being very clear on this…. Since you don’t seem to understand this. The legendary weapons are already not just cosmetic. I don’t know how you missed that in all my comments. Maybe you are just skimming I don’t know. It is already about more than just cosmetic but it isn’t offering any real advantage that people are buying legendaires just because of being able to change stats (which again has already been implemented sorry) and the proposed ability to change sigils. Again if people wanted the legedary weapons for this advantage with changing stats, which is a much bigger deal than just changing sigils, then all the weapons would be comparable in price but they aren’t. Focus is around 150g for precursor while the legend or zap is closer to 1000g. There is much less of a demand for lack luster skins. If you’re argument was calid then the prices would be comparable. I’ve said this 3 or 4 times now. Please read my posts I am reading all of yours.

Also max effiecency is bersker in PvE. I use sigils of bloodlust, force and accuracy. Please tell me how my full ascended scholar rune berserker armor and legendary/ascended weapons wih these sigils is not efficient. Yes if I would do WvW I agree there are better builds than berserker but I’m not making a whole new weapon just to change out the sigil. I’m not lazy I just don’t do WvW more than once a month so it isn’t worth it. If you do both a lot then I can see it being a decent investment or you simply keep a stash of sigils around. Or go with sigils that match up or can work with both builds

So in summary your argument is: The majority of the player base thinks that legendaries look cool, they can change stats, but they can’t change sigils so forget it they aren’t getting one. And once a sigil swap ability would be implemented everyone would change their mind and decide to buy one. Besides you who else is thinking this?

Andraus.3874:

Aomine it’s hard to understand what you are saying. Legendary is already more than just a skin. I don’t have any other assumption about that…. It’s more than just a skin and people are not paying more for it. I’m sorry we will have to agree to disagree that the value of the weapon lies in the skin not the ability to change stats or sigil. And again changing stats is more “OP” than a simple sigil change as it is so expensive to craft multiple ascended weapons.

Again… Since you don’t seem to understand this. The legendary weapons are already not just cosmetic. I don’t know how you missed that in all my comments. Maybe you are just skimming I don’t know. It is already about more than just cosmetic but it isn’t offering any real advantage that people are going to buy legendaires because of being able to change stats (which again has already wen implemented sorry) and the proposed ability to change sigils. Again if people wanted the legedary weapons for their advantage in changing stats, which is a much bigger deal than just changing sigils, then all the weapons would be conparable in price but they aren’t.

Also max effiecency is bersker in PvE. I use sigils of bloodlust, force and accuracy. Please tell me how my full ascended scholar rune berserker armor and legendary/ascended weapons wih these sigils is not efficient. Yes if I would do WvW I agree there are better builds than berserker but I’m not making a whole new weapon just to change out the sigil. I’m not lazy I just don’t do WvW more than once a month so it isn’t worth it. If you do both a lot then I can see it being a decent investment or you simply keep a stash of sigils around. Or go with sigils that match up or can work with both builds

You’re not being at max efficiency, your using “universal sigils” like everyone does because we don’t want to waste spaces/ effort for real max efficiency (10% monster specific, 10% sigil of night). In normal condition, it’s a waste of space in any other situation (already mentioned that it could potentially wasted 20 spaces and 20 ascended crafting). If legendary is able to switch sigil at will, you will outperform all the ordinary people because you totally skip this issue of space management.

There’s one post I agree upon though, that “insert 5 sigils maximum on the legendary to switch around”. It is a much reasonable offer compare to having the ability to switch around 30 sigils.

After the time and money I put into my Legendary, it honestly doesn’t feel as though it was worth it. I honestly feel ripped off by it. Great, it can swap stats out of combat. I was already carrying around 3-5 weapon and armour sets as an Engineer anyway. So what?
In fact, I was doing infinitely better with those 3-5 weapons. I had one rifle set up for DPS, one for support and the other to beef my tanking where it was required. Now? I just have one Legendary with a healing sigil in it; I don’t care if I bring my group down, that’s less expensive than re-slotting back and forth for DPS. And forget doing that. Dropping four gold on my DPS Sigils each and every time I bolster my group’s DPS? In your dreams.

While it’d be great to have every Sigil I could afford bound into the thing, I’d say 5-10 Sigils to rotate between would be wonderful. Enough slots to cover any reasonable builder’s bases.

So you change to sigils of accuracy if you are running a class that reflects and you are fighting something that reflects? Then you switch back to force or monster slaying sigils? I do hope you are doing that or you aren’t reaching your highest DPS potential the few extra percent damage makes all the difference.

Also I already discussed this point as well. Space issue is not an issue. It is workable to have all the slaying sigils you want in your inventory, slaying potions, and even an extra armor set if you need PVT for like running through Arah trash mobs and still have room loot. These sigils are also very cheap which is why some people will switch these sigils in for max DPS. Anyone can do this tho most people won’t bother. When it comes down to it armor and stats don’t matter nearly as much as skill and a couple percent extra damage, which by the way doesn’t scale as well with certain skills making other sigils like accuracy better in certain occasions, is not worth the effort.

What if kinda legendary sigils and runes? I totaly want to craft “swapable” sigils and runes

Aomine.5012:

You’re not being at max efficiency, your using “universal sigils” like everyone does because we don’t want to waste spaces/ effort for real max efficiency (10% monster specific, 10% sigil of night). In normal condition, it’s a waste of space in any other situation (already mentioned that it could potentially wasted 20 spaces and 20 ascended crafting). If legendary is able to switch sigil at will, you will outperform all the ordinary people because you totally skip this issue of space management.

There’s one post I agree upon though, that “insert 5 sigils maximum on the legendary to switch around”. It is a much reasonable offer compare to having the ability to switch around 30 sigils.

So you’re arguing that you’ll outperform other people because of space management. Doesn’t that make extra bag slots and 20 slot bags pay to win with your argument then?

We’re not outperforming people if we choose to slot those sigils as those people could easily just prepare beforehand and go to the bank and keep their extra sigils and weapons there. All this does is make it more convenient if someone made a legendary. Statwise everyone is capable of doing that with the current set up. It is not making a sigil and stat swappable legendary any stronger than someone who just uses an ascended and replaces the sigils. They are of equal strength. You’re arguing that somehow compressing your inventory to have more inventory space suddenly makes you overpowered.

If space management equaled overpowered then having 8 bag slots, 8 20 slot bags, a perma merchant, a perma bank access, and a copper fed salvage o matic means you’re now the strongest player in the game since you have the best possible space management available now.

Dragonax.6487:

Mourningcry.9428:

Have to disagree with this.

The stat swapping utility of a Legendary is already enough of a benefit over a standard Ascended item. This already provides a significant edge over having to craft multiple ascended weapons for multiple builds. Especially when taking account bound into consideration.

Having to purchase/replace sigils to accommodate a build is a pittance compared to having to craft an entire ascended weapon. Also, unless you’re at the tippy-tippy-top of record setting performances, use of rare sigils over exotics would be just fine for frequent build changes (often 1%-3% variance between exotic and rare). Or even taking a loss of maybe 5% performance by not swapping at all is hardly even a material consideration for general use.

And if, for arguments sake, that level of min/max performance is a consideration, having to craft additional ascended weapons – (edit) in addition to already having a legendary – is also a pittance compared to the collaborative armor/runes/trinkets/(edit)infusions which would be necessary as well to achieve that performance.

And yes, this comes from a legendary user.

For the price of 1 legendary, you can craft 30-40 ascended weapons. With all of those ascended, you can have every combination of stats with a big variety of Sigils and builds + you can have weapon of every type and put them on every character so u won’t have to move them around.

To conclude: Even with the Sigil swapping feature, 30-40 ascended are still far more convenient than 1 legendary if u don’t care about the skin.

It seems like you are only looking at the expensive legendaries. This isn’t the case for all of them.

Aomine.5012:

You guys already mentioned how much cheaper to craft an ascended, so why not just craft one for different sigil choices? Because you’re lazy? Because it waste space? See that’s the exact concern I have. If legendary weapons solve all these issues, then it becomes a mandatory to anyone who want to maximize their performance.

Why should someone who already invested a huge amount of Gold and/or (a combination of that and) time, need to craft even further weapons, when the weapon has a functionality to allow it to change stats when out of combat? That functionality is hampered by the lack of an ability to obtain, consume and unlock the option to swap Sigils outside of combat as well.

How is it different, when a player who has one Legendary; buys two Sigils, one for a Power- and one for a Condition based build, slotting them into their Legendary, consuming them in the process. And when another player who has crafted two weapons as Ascended, one for a Power- and one for a Condition based build, purchases a Sigil for each, as suitable to their build purposes? Both players needed to buy two Sigils. Both players can swap stats outside of combat. But with how the system currently exists for a Legendary owner, they need to either “forfeit” (read: ignore) the entire ability to swap stats outside of combat and invest even further time and/or money into making an Ascended weapon (which arguably does not take that long, but it’s the principle of an entire mechanic to the Legendary weapons being hampered here), or constantly keep replacing Sigils as they swap between builds. That is not very convenient is it?

A Legendary is a inventory convenience, besides a sweet skin with neat effects (and that being variably considered so based on opinions per weapon type of course). It does in no way make it mandatory to own one if you can unlock the ability to swap a Sigil on it, as you would need to buy just as many as the next person would. To me, it seems more like there’s an “envy” going on here, from people who doesn’t have the willpower (or maybe even a desire) to make a Legendary weapon, and them being annoyed at inventory management conveniences granted to those who does have the willpower (and desire) to make one (or more).

As if inventory space makes you more powerful than another player.. If inventory space makes you more powerful, then news flash, the Gem Store is selling “Pay-2-Win” Inventory and Bank slot expansions! Start rioting with your pitchforks today! There’s convenience permanent gathering tools as well (which aren’t very cost effective if you were to spend the Gems on Gold and use those Gold on gathering tools in-game), so that you don’t need to carry one or two extra sets of tools in your inventory. There’s convenience salvage items, again not being cost effective, but saving you inventory space. There’s a Permanent Bank/Merchant/Trading Post and Mystic Forge available in the game too, which I happily own to have the convenience of not needing to visit specific locations when I need to perform tasks involving either, though they take up space of course. But let’s riot at convenience! It makes you more powerful!

To those that argue for the space issue. Most people who swap between builds will usually swap weapons as well. At best one weapon will be used in two, max. 3 builds. So at worst one legendary would equal three ascended weapons. That’s when you can talk about space and price, but the improvement with a legendary would still be marginal.