Guild Wars 2

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

JustTrogdor.7892:

Again, another thread where everyone can argue and it will mean nothing. If Anet has a vision for mounts I am sure they will act on it or not based on their ideas. It isn’t like mounts are something Anet has never heard of. You all can argue with each other all you want. Feel free to waste your time and efforts going back and forth. In the end every post in this thread is a waste of time including my own. Have fun bickering for no reason aside from getting the last word.

While I would hope Anet does read the forums I do get the feeling they don’t as well. That is also why I wanted to be less active and I really have said everything that I feel had to be said about the game in the forums already.

It is that I came back because of the megaserver-problems and then did get active in 3 other threads.

Btw, sometimes talking with players can help. For example if they start to see things different they might spend money different what can change the game. For example if they buy less gems because they see how that effects parts of the game in a way they do not like it. Just as an example I feel string about.

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

This is where I say that in this environment " Slippery slope" is not a fallacy. While people may not have started with " cosmetics only". there is a dynamic. Those that wish cosmetics only mounts will push what they want, those of us against mounts entirely will say " Ok, but only if I can hide them from My sight on log in."

THIS will then be a clarion call for those wnating speed boost…perma – speed boost…etc.. to come in and say " they gave an inch…charge!!!!"

On a side note, when I went to bed… we were amicable, and agreeable..I come back, and all hell broke loose..what the **** ???

Devata.6589:

Btw, sometimes talking with players can help. For example if they start to see things different they might spend money different what can change the game. For example if they buy less gems because they see how that effects parts of the game in a way they do not like it. Just as an example I feel string about.

It isn’t like this is the first multi-page thread about mounts so I doubt at this point things will be seen differently. There are so many threads on this it isn’t even funny with the same old arguments. It is the same old stuff rehashed over and over with almost the same posters trying to get the last word. You know what they say, “you can __ in one hand and and wish in the the other and see what is filled first.”

I have come to believe that handled properly… and balanced with other speed skills, traits, runes and sigils.. ( a Lot of work )…speed boost mounts are a possibility. And even I would go along… handled properly.

I feel if all it is gonna be is a Pure gem store item, it needs to be cosmetics only, and hideable… Give me a " Hide mounts" option On Log in. I don’t wanna see them.

Speed boost mounts Unless balanced against all other speed skills, traits, runes and sigils will be overpowered.

Suddenly, unless properly balanced across all speed skills, traits, runes and sigils, it will be necessary for EVERYONE to buy a speed boost mount. Even those that hate them.

THIS is my main objection to speed boost mounts that are not properly balanced.

The problem is, a Lot of people that want a speed boost mount want one Like In other MMO’s.. Perma-speed boost at will all over the place whenever they wanna Mount.

That is too overpowered.

Yes they can.

The whole point of having a mount is to have a quicker form of travel on an aesthetically pleasing model. They always follow a specific set of rules to keep the practicality and aesthetics at optimal levels; for example disappearing when entering incompatible areas, speed boosts, etc. Take WoW for example. You have mounts like Vial of the Sands which turns you into an exotic mount allowing you to take on a passenger. But it is only like this because there is no other way to get around save for a few portals. Also every continent is FREAKING HUGE.

In a game where there is already a method of quick travel, mounts would lose their practical purpose leaving only aesthetic value available. To fix this, you could remove waypoints but you can’t simply remove them because they are currently the main source of travel. Removing them drastically changes the mechanics of the game. You only do something like that in a beta. Otherwise it causes a kittenstorm within the playerbase. You could keep the waypoints, but then players would waypoint and then use their mount to close the gap. The problem of advantages remain.

Which means to consider Swiftness and 25% running speed passives. Every profession has access to swiftness or some form of speed boost. Asking for a mount with a speed boost produces an unfair advantage because you don’t need to grant yourself swiftness, take up a trait/skill slot or use movement skills to move faster. Your mount is a free speed boost. Then you get off and you have your combat skills. This makes players feel they won’t be able to keep up if they do not have one. So whether getting a mount is optional or not, it is mandatory to have one in order to keep up. So adding things like the broom and drill is fine but adding a speed boost to that will change the mechanics of the game because having a mount would be more practical.

You could bypass that by requiring the player to actively apply the boosts while mounted for better speed. But then you’de have to consider what it would take to balance between normal speed mechanics and mount speed mechanics so that one isn’t superior than the other. Since profession each have different levels of movement access, only the slower professions would find little need to buy a mount. Could anet make a buck off of it? I don’t know but most of the early anti-mount comments tend to get quicker thumbs than the OP.

Other minor details like lore, immersion, etc. is solely up to the developers but again, that debate should only be decided on during beta. And again this game is not in beta. Further debate after the fact is relative but overall fruitless since anet has shown that they already have priorities they will not deviate from.

If this was still beta, you would have a much better chance at getting mounts. But since the game mechanics have already been decided you are stuck with the broom, the drill and at least half of the playerbase saying it isn’t a good idea.

The reasons I posted above plus the playerbase wall are both preventing you from getting mounts and until someone comes up with more logical reasons other than “Lore”, “Immersion”, “Other MMOs have them”, “They look cool”, “emotions” and “Your argument is invalid because I say so” mounts will never happen.

That’s what every argument for mounts boils down to and none of them are good enough. And it isn’t because I say so, it is because almost nobody on the pro-mount side ever thinks about it. They just want. Consider what anti-mounts have to say before writing them off as wrong, because they are not.

InB4promountdisectsmycommentandlolnopeseverything.

Zacchary.6183:

That’s (mainly) the problem. Emotion is irrational and will drive itself into a ditch unless logic steps in the way and says, “Hey, you are going to drive yourself into a ditch. Stop or you are going to get screwed.”

Likewise, most of these people who want mounts are entirely disregarding how mounts would affect other players. The players who are saying it is a bad idea list the reasons why while those for mounts are simply telling them “your argument is invalid” without stating why.

And like every mount thread, those who try to reason gradually realize that reason and logic isn’t going to work so they start appealing to emotion as well. Discussions and debates are worthless at this point because it boils down to “yes mounts”/“no mounts” comments.

But let me ask you this: if people wanted mounts, why don’t we see the broom or drill very often? Why isn’t anet making more of them, perhaps bigger ones at that?

Most people do not want “mounts” as in " cosmetic mounts." They want a speed boost with the mount. They disregard that Anet has balanced speed. therefore a Mount that has a speed boost must similarly be balanced just as elementalist air attuned staff #4 has to be balanced with mesmer focus # 4.

Most players Not all…I have seen reasonable players on the other camp…but they get drowned out by those that just want a speed boost,… refuse to acknowledge or even respect that the mere existence of a speed boost mount that is not correctly balanced will affect other players.

Any that do not, are either engaging in wishful thinking, disregarding properly formed objections because they rather talk about something else..or being completely disingenuous.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

This is where I say that in this environment " Slippery slope" is not a fallacy. While people may not have started with " cosmetics only". there is a dynamic. Those that wish cosmetics only mounts will push what they want, those of us against mounts entirely will say " Ok, but only if I can hide them from My sight on log in."

THIS will then be a clarion call for those wnating speed boost…perma – speed boost…etc.. to come in and say " they gave an inch…charge!!!!"

On a side note, when I went to bed… we were amicable, and agreeable..I come back, and all hell broke loose..what the **** ???

Did hell break lose?

Anyway. Don’t think this has to do with the slippery slope. Most people always wanted ‘real’ mounts. That also means being able to collect them. So more then one. That is also why you mostly see it implemented like that in other mmo’s. There aren’t many, if any, mmo’s where mounts are purely cosmetics.

Devata.6589:

How would that shift any balance when mounts or non-combat mounts?

Because guards don’t have any single option for perma speed. 99% of the speed I use is out of combat for my guard, why am I being punished when other classes aren’t? I have to assume it’s balance related. No other reason makes sense why guards don’t have perma speed when others do. In fact if you look under “Movement speed” in the wiki, Guard isn’t even listed on the page.

It would seem to change some aspect of gameplay to give Guards something they didn’t have before.

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Devata.6589:

How would that shift any balance when mounts or non-combat mounts?

Because guards don’t have any single option for perma speed. 99% of the speed I use is out of combat for my guard, why am I being punished when other classes aren’t? I have to assume it’s balance related. No other reason makes sense why guards don’t have perma speed when others do. In fact if you look under “Movement speed” in the wiki, Guard isn’t even listed on the page.

It would seem to change some aspect of gameplay to give Guards something they didn’t have before.

Yeah it has indeed to do with balance but I think mainly with balance for during the fights as most if not all those speed-boost also increase your speed during a fight. Non-combat mounts would not.

I don’t see why it would be bad or unbalanced if all classes / professions could travel just as fast in non-combat situations.

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

This is where I say that in this environment " Slippery slope" is not a fallacy. While people may not have started with " cosmetics only". there is a dynamic. Those that wish cosmetics only mounts will push what they want, those of us against mounts entirely will say " Ok, but only if I can hide them from My sight on log in."

THIS will then be a clarion call for those wnating speed boost…perma – speed boost…etc.. to come in and say " they gave an inch…charge!!!!"

On a side note, when I went to bed… we were amicable, and agreeable..I come back, and all hell broke loose..what the **** ???

Did hell break lose?

Anyway. Don’t think this has to do with the slippery slope. Most people always wanted ‘real’ mounts. That also means being able to collect them. So more then one. That is also why you mostly see it implemented like that in other mmo’s. There aren’t many, if any, mmo’s where mounts are purely cosmetics.

Here’s a question for you.

How would you suggest balancing Speed-boost mounts so that they are balanced across all speed skills, traits, runes and sigils? Balancing is necessary so that those of us that do not want mounts do not feel that we have to own a Mount, and simply saying " you don’t need to if you do not want to." will not satissfy those that do not want mounts In the game.

Seriously, what limitations are you willing to accept to balance the mounts you want? And just saying " Collecting them." doesn’t qualify since this is something you want added to the game.

I have heard many before you say what limits they would accept.

What limits would you accept for a speed boost mount?

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

This is where I say that in this environment " Slippery slope" is not a fallacy. While people may not have started with " cosmetics only". there is a dynamic. Those that wish cosmetics only mounts will push what they want, those of us against mounts entirely will say " Ok, but only if I can hide them from My sight on log in."

THIS will then be a clarion call for those wnating speed boost…perma – speed boost…etc.. to come in and say " they gave an inch…charge!!!!"

On a side note, when I went to bed… we were amicable, and agreeable..I come back, and all hell broke loose..what the **** ???

Did hell break lose?

Anyway. Don’t think this has to do with the slippery slope. Most people always wanted ‘real’ mounts. That also means being able to collect them. So more then one. That is also why you mostly see it implemented like that in other mmo’s. There aren’t many, if any, mmo’s where mounts are purely cosmetics.

Here’s a question for you.

How would you suggest balancing Speed-boost mounts so that they are balanced across all speed skills, traits, runes and sigils? Balancing is necessary so that those of us that do not want mounts do not feel that we have to own a Mount, and simply saying " you don’t need to if you do not want to." will not satissfy those that do not want mounts In the game.

Seriously, what limitations are you willing to accept to balance the mounts you want? And just saying " Collecting them." doesn’t qualify since this is something you want added to the game.

I have heard many before you say what limits they would accept.

What limits would you accept for a speed boost mount?

Not sure how ‘collecting them’ would be a balance?

Anyway. What I am willing to accept.

No mounts in city’s,

No combat mounts in PvE, (so you can also not use the speed to your advantage during fights)

A max speed of x . I think max 3 times that what you can get with normal boost (that is 33 %? So then max 99 would be a good compromise. Of course if the max speed without mounts increase that of mounts increases as well.

No flying mounts. (But yes for low hovering mounts including really hovering (so not that you bumb in to a very low object because you see yourself hover above it but are in fact on the ground)). Think of some of the tonics that make you ‘fly’ but without the bumping into object you hover above.

I don’t care for a ’don’t show mounts options". Think it would be strange but if people want that I don’t care.

The problem of having the speed-boost for people that don’t want a mount. (your main question I think) Speed shoes. It would then work exactly the same as mounts do but without really seeing the mount but giving you a speedy gonzales like animation. That would then be the easiest to get by an NPC cheapest in game ‘mount’.

I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you
But I get the feeling that you don’t like it
What’s with all the screaming?
You like monkeys, you like ponies
Maybe you don’t like monsters so much
Maybe I used too many monkeys
Isn’t it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

- Skullcrusher Mountain – Jonathan Coulton

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

Devata.6589:

Not sure how ‘collecting them’ would be a balance?

Anyway. What I am willing to accept.

No mounts in city’s,

No combat mounts in PvE, (so you can also not use the speed to your advantage during fights)

Not a limitation, since most of us do not want any mounts at all.. combat mounts of any sort are not a Limitation since it is MORE than what is acceptable, not less. Trust me, Combat mounts for many are a complete non-starter.

A max speed of x . I think max 3 times that what you can get with normal boost (that is 33 %? So then max 99 would be a good compromise. Of course if the max speed without mounts increase that of mounts increases as well.

Again not a limitation was thinking along the lines of what can be attained with speed boost. Not 99 . See this is part of the problem, you are not willing to accept limitations, you simply want boosts. A Limitation is not " well we can get 33 now, and I REALLY would Love 200 % speed boost so let’s compromise on 99 %" is Not a compromise at all.

No flying mounts. (But yes for low hovering mounts including really hovering (so not that you bumb in to a very low object because you see yourself hover above it but are in fact on the ground)). Think of some of the tonics that make you ‘fly’ but without the bumping into object you hover above.

Not a limitation. Hovering mounts when players do not want mounts at all? and the devs said " No flying mounts"?

I don’t care for a ’don’t show mounts options". Think it would be strange but if people want that I don’t care.

The “Don’t show” only applies to “Cosmetic non-speed boost”mounts since the difference between seeing them, and not seeing them is fine.. but seeing a person zipping at 50 % speed boost without a Mount is ridiculous.

I want to end on a positive note so let me add this here. When I asked about limitations I meant things Like… " while riding a speed boost mount, it uses up one of the 7 – 9 skill slots like the engineer weapon bundles, and totally eliminates all your 1-5 combat skills with 1. Dismount. Also, while using the mount are able to sustain damage if attacked, and vulnerable to being " Knocked off." To be described. No auto-dismount upon being injured, must manually dismount. If a player does not manually dismount they will not be able to attack, and are still suffering from Vulnerability, and may become confused. If confused will suffer an extra stack of confusion."

“Upon being Knocked off…. your Mount will auto-dismount you, and you will sustain falling off mount damage” THESE are Limitations. All the things you mentioned only appear to you as limitations since they are less than what you hope for, which is what I suspected.

The problem of having the speed-boost for people that don’t want a mount. (your main question I think) Speed shoes. It would then work exactly the same as mounts do but without really seeing the mount but giving you a speedy gonzales like animation. That would then be the easiest to get by an NPC cheapest in game ‘mount’.

This actually might work. I do Like the idea of speed shoes. But I would Not want it as a gem shop item. Or an NPC purchased item. It would also add to the game as if would be something that the a player has to do in – game. I really have an issue with " pay2win" and if it is In the gem store, or purchaseable for just gold from an NPC… it can be seen as " pay2win" Make it something that you need to quest for. I have already given a good idea of what such a quest might be like.

I think that while those of us NOT wanting mounts that are reasonable… are not that far apart from those that want mounts … that are reasonable… usually compromise means being willing to accept LESS… Not starting from a Position where you demand a LOT, then being willing to accept only a Little less, that still amounts to a LOT.

Usually that is something that just makes the other side feel as if you just want to run all over them…Kinda Like." hey i could have put you on a torture rack..but I’ll compromise, I’ll just Kick your teeth in, and leave you with a Black eye. See Compromise."

First, you could increase speed cap without mounts.

Second, you don’t really need to increase speed caps i think, however some classes need to have it available via straits or weapons like other classes (warrior: horn+signet of rage).

Third, mounts can be cool, but as long as its just one mount avail to all however Arena Net decides. All the variations in Mounts in wow for example, well the mount elitism and grind for all ensues…

Fourth, more processing power required, especially if in a zerg I’d imagine which could affect some players.

Xfile.3598:

Fourth, more processing power required, especially if in a zerg I’d imagine which could affect some players.

The rest of the issues I have no opinion about except for an idea I will add after I express My opinion about the above.

I am concerned that extra processing needs for mounts may make the game unplayable to many players without high-end machines. it seems to me to be too high a cost for what would amount to " fluff".

That being said this is a way I could see it being worthwhile.

Put it in an expansion to the game. I have read that gw2 is NOT taking expansions off the table.

The way it works is, as speed boost mounts may be seen as “pay 2 win” if on the gem store, or just an “Npc purchase” purely for gold….

Make it a Long quest chain:

1. you need to go to a higher level zone ..someplace level 40 to 50 and find a specific NPC that makes constructs that would be mountable. There would be 5 different NPC’s One for each race. No one has to get the mount for their specific race…but each constructed mount is created so it " feels" Like it comes from the race in question… Steam-punk for charr… Gizmo-ey for asura… Bio-engineered for Sylvari…etc….

2. You need to persuade the NPC to even consider it, by doing a few quests…similar to " faction" gain In other games.

3. Once convinced… he needs components… and drops off specific mobs… this sends you to buy components off NPC’s, and Hunt down specific NON world boss Mobs…

I can see maybe champions for this… but Nothing below veteran for main parts.. maybe some parts off common mobs… ( think EQ Epic… Just Not as hard. Maybe WoW flying Mount. But Not purchased off an NPC)

4. All required parts are “Soul Bound on acquire”.

5. Repeated trips to and fro… from the NPC.

6. The ultimate result is a speed boost mount that gives slightly higher speed than a swiftness skill, and allows auto-dismount on being attacked. NOT for WvW. Or dungeons. Also you get a title and achievements. " Formula X Experimental pilot."

Of course this is all just an idea .. some things can and should be adjusted…but all in all.. if it appears On the gem store… except as something purely cosmetic… it would be pay2win for me.

Just a thought.

PS you can collect all 5.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

runeblade.7514:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

Simple, keep all the speed boost mounts out of WvW, or PvP, only for PvE.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

Yeah it’s a balancing thing for in combat. But if mounts are non-combat mounts it means there is no difference with the current state in combat.

What is the balance part then? Once class / profession should arrive later? That would maybe make a little sense in WvW while still not much and when seeing zergs run I don’t see specific classes fall behind (because everybody speed-boosts each other). But in PvE that would not make any sense at all. If you there sooner manly depends on where you are and how fast you load when using a waypoints. If that really was a balancing thing some classes would have longer loading screen just to slow them down.

So yes it’s a balancing thing for in combat but no it’s not a balancing thing for out of combat. And so non-combat mounts would not mess with that at all.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

~

This actually might work. I do Like the idea of speed shoes. But I would Not want it as a gem shop item. Or an NPC purchased item. It would also add to the game as if would be something that the a player has to do in – game. I really have an issue with " pay2win" and if it is In the gem store, or purchaseable for just gold from an NPC… it can be seen as " pay2win" Make it something that you need to quest for. I have already given a good idea of what such a quest might be like.

I think that while those of us NOT wanting mounts that are reasonable… are not that far apart from those that want mounts … that are reasonable… usually compromise means being willing to accept LESS… Not starting from a Position where you demand a LOT, then being willing to accept only a Little less, that still amounts to a LOT.

Usually that is something that just makes the other side feel as if you just want to run all over them…Kinda Like." hey i could have put you on a torture rack..but I’ll compromise, I’ll just Kick your teeth in, and leave you with a Black eye. See Compromise."

With all due respect, I think your definition of ‘limitations’ is a little strange or better said wrong with the actual meaning of the world. A limitation means “not more then x.. or maximum y”. What you gave as examples are detailed ways of implementation. Yes that is also a limitation as that means nothing else then that would be allowed but it’s not how you would describe general limitations. So sorry if you did not like my answers but I was describing limitations to mounts (in general).

If you want to talk about implementations and how those limitations would be implemented thats fine and I am willing to talk about that.

For example, you say my limitation of ‘non-combat mounts’ is not a limitation however much of you explanation matches with that. About getting kicked of when you get in combat but also how you have no skills.. or at least no combat skills.

So let me go in on that. Yeah I am fine with having no combat skills when on a mount or maybe just very weak one that would only be able to kill a critter. I don’t see why there wound not may be other skills like “wiggle tale of mount” but no combat. Yeah I also don’t mind that you can be kicked of a mount and then be dazed for 1 or 2 seconds. In fact thats how it works in most MMO’s. I would not want the mount to instantly stop or kick you after after getting one hit because that would be extremely frustrating. I already find the ‘slow down when in combat’ extremely annoying in the current game and when you get immobilizes just while walking pass one it’s even worse. So if you would have that even more with mounts it would be likely even more frustrating. But yeah you can get stopped after 2 or 3 hits (and slow down after the first hit) and then you can get kicked of after another 2 hits if you don’t dismount manually. I would leave the dodge option in to at least avoid getting that first hit. (That is how I now reduce that irritation of getting slowed down when passing some mob because he hits me). How much you can that dodge is purely depended on your traits and stuff, not on your weapons or skills as those are invalid on non-combat mounts.

I would not have a mount cost one of the skill slots. You are self one of the people who talks about balancing problems. Well that would likely introduce balancing problems.

Hope this experimentation fits more with your definition of ‘limitations’. About the speed shoes. I don’t mind if they are behind a quest. Personally I would love that even more. I figured you would prefer it being easy accessible from an NPC so you would not be forced to do much for it if you did not really want that. But put it behind a quest, fine by me.. No even better by me as I prefer having such things (mounts, mini’s skins and so on) behind specific content so you can specifically work towards what. Have said much about that in another thread.

About the hovering, there are already many hovering tonics in the game including one hovering mount (the broom) only difference would be you would no bumb into something that is below you.. simply because that is silly. So Anet obvious has nothing against hovering. Not bumping in to anything just depends on the way they implement it. They might also have done that to prevent people to jump on things they are not mend to be jumped on. That however would be simply fixed by having the mount not hover higher then what you would be able to jump and don’t allow ‘jumping’ with that hovering mount.
It’s something completely different as flying.
It could however then be a problem for the ’don’t show mounts’ option as your coordinate wound indeed show you hover. So that option would then have to go I think.

As the game engine currently can’t handle vast amounts of people, from a completely technical standpoint I’d say a big no to Mounts. There are also lore reasons and a heated discussion wether horses exist or not, this can be solved easily by not adding Horse mounts (duh)

Mounts cannot be universal, a Charr can’t have access to the same ones as an Asura for obvious reasons. One way to “fix” this is by making them work like Cultural gear, I dislike this approach for multiple reasons, most important one being, I don’t want the mount to be one new Item in my inventory that I click on to summon my mount. Then if we add multiple mounts for multiple occasions, you can see the problem, it’s badly handled in lots of other games with mounts and I don’t want that clutter in Guild Wars 2 as well. There is also the issue of “speed boosts”, and other mount stat boosts, that is already under discussion.

How do I propose we solve the above issues? By making “Mounts” skills. We already have transform and summoning skills in the game, why not combine them and make a Transform + Combine skill, that is also a racial skill, so each race gets their own new Mount skills.

The same way most professions get a speedbuff signet, now all professions will get a “Mount” skill, used to give a speed boost much like the one you get from those signets.

This “Mount” system is tied to the existing horizontal progression of the game (getting Mounts like you get new Skills), and also gives the abilitiy to add some unique mounts, with interesting capabilities but use the Elite Slot instead.

Balance here comes from the fact that you “sacrifice” a skillslot, a utility skill for a regular mount and maybe an Elite slot for something more Exotic. The acquisition of them is already in the game, they could even use something like the new trait system, to get a mount you need skillpoints + to complete a specific task.

Ties in correctly with the current horizontal progression system we have, gives a boost WHILE also having a drawback (much like the speed signets or runes that provide swiftness etc).

What? Some of you say certain professions don’t have access to speed signets? Let’s solve that “problem” by making these new skills, both Racial and Profession specific.

As an icing to the cake, and to provide some extra cash to Arenanet, they could allow new Mount SKINS on the Gem store.

And now that I think about it, Skill reskins on the Gemstore would be a nice addition altogether (like making Guardian Spirit weapons glow purple instead of Blue) but it’s for another discussion.

Finally, what kind of mounts can we have? Here are my suggestions:

Humans: a Watchwork Mount, after the Scarlet incident, Watchknights are now back under Human control, why not use some specially created Watchworks as mounts? This will be summoned through a portal, like those the Watchworks appeared from during Scarlet’s invasions.

Charr: a Tank-like mount, like those Tanks we see around Charr places, or around Orr during the PS, only a bit smaller. This can be summoned in a way similar to the Asura golem.

Asura: We already have a possible mount-canditate, the Golem Suit, of course it needs reword (there needs to be a way to SEE the Asura)

Sylvari: a Sylvan mount, just like the Pale Tree created Sylvan Hounds to accompany sylvari, she could create some different version capable of being a mount. Leafy- but similar to Horse instead of Dog.

Norn: not quite sure about Norn, need some help with them

So in short, we keep Mounts in a way Balanced gameplay-wise, out of the Gem store (with only reskins on the store), we stay “in-lore” and everyone wins.

How is that?

@maddoctor.2738
Just about your last statement. Skins should also be available in the open world. Not in the gem-store. If they want more money they realease a new expansions that ontroduces new mounts (skins) in the game.

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it’s definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don’t believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone’s opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

Flash.6912:

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it’s definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don’t believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone’s opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

Deja Vu. I did just read that already.

To the people who want mounts, the rendering engine already chokes with more than 50-100 people in an area (as can be seen by the loss of FPS). It is ludicrous to suppose that mounts WON’T make this situation worse, it will. Also, you then have just slammed the door on the players who don’t have TOTL systems. There is no rendering system that allows you to turn off rendering of mounts – please give an example if there is.

As I said, in a previous comment, this is a slippery slope type of addition. First people just want cosmetic mounts. Then, after a while, they want a permanent speed boost (say 33%). Then alter it will be 66% speed boost. Finally they will want combat. It is not a trivial addition, to a game, to add mounts, in a game that is not designed to have them. A.Net would more than likely have to rework the game engine just to allow it to happen – that is not trivial.

I love the comments, ‘Oh mounts are a simple additions’ – how do you know? You are assuming a lot. The GW2 game engine IS based on the GW1 but highly modified and GW1 did not have mounts. As I said in a previous post, the Stone Summmit and the Necrid Horseman were rendered as one piece, not two separate pieces. If you kill one, they both die and do not detach – where if the mount dies, the rider fights on or if the rider dis, the mount runs away (that is how it would be if they were rendered separately). I added a screenshot of 2 dead Necrid Horsemen to help with my argument

Devata.6589:

@maddoctor.2738
Just about your last statement. Skins should also be available in the open world. Not in the gem-store. If they want more money they realease a new expansions that ontroduces new mounts (skins) in the game.

Of course skins should also be available in the open world. But judging by their current ideas they put new skins on the gemstore.

And with my idea, the “basic” Mount skin will be available in-game. The gem store skins will be their way of monetizing the mounts.

runeblade.7514:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

It was in WvW subforum, but was about general gear and class balance.

Devata.6589:

Yeah it’s a balancing thing for in combat. But if mounts are non-combat mounts it means there is no difference with the current state in combat.

It was specifically about out of combat mobility (i believe it started with people asking for +25% speed signet for guardians).

Astralporing.1957:

runeblade.7514:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

It was in WvW subforum, but was about general gear and class balance.

People think that PvE and PvP are separate and they are not. One affects the other, so the balance is very delicate to handle.

Devata.6589:

… snip…

If you want to talk about implementations and how those limitations would be implemented thats fine and I am willing to talk about that.

For example, you say my limitation of ‘non-combat mounts’ is not a limitation however much of you explanation matches with that. About getting kicked of when you get in combat but also how you have no skills.. or at least no combat skills.

Yeah I also don’t mind that you can be kicked of a mount and then be dazed for 1 or 2 seconds. In fact thats how it works in most MMO’s. I would not want the mount to instantly stop or kick you after after getting one hit because that would be extremely frustrating. I already find the ‘slow down when in combat’ extremely annoying in the current game and when you get immobilizes just while walking pass one it’s even worse. So if you would have that even more with mounts it would be likely even more frustrating. But yeah you can get stopped after 2 or 3 hits (and slow down after the first hit) and then you can get kicked of after another 2 hits if you don’t dismount manually. I would leave the dodge option in to at least avoid getting that first hit. (That is how I now reduce that irritation of getting slowed down when passing some mob because he hits me). How much you can that dodge is purely depended on your traits and stuff, not on your weapons or skills as those are invalid on non-combat mounts.

I would not have a mount cost one of the skill slots. You are self one of the people who talks about balancing problems. Well that would likely introduce balancing problems.

About the speed shoes. I don’t mind if they are behind a quest. Personally I would love that even more. I figured you would prefer it being easy accessible from an NPC so you would not be forced to do much for it if you did not really want that. But put it behind a quest, fine by me.. No even better by me as I prefer having such things (mounts, mini’s skins and so on) behind specific content so you can specifically work towards what. Have said much about that in another thread.

About the hovering, there are already many hovering tonics in the game including one hovering mount (the broom) only difference would be you would no bumb into something that is below you.. simply because that is silly. So Anet obvious has nothing against hovering.
It’s something completely different as flying.
It could however then be a problem for the ’don’t show mounts’ option as your coordinate wound indeed show you hover. So that option would then have to go I think.

I think your Point of Hovering is spot on, and while I can see that dodging while Mounted would be important… we’d need a better animation than a foreward roll.

> . <

One thing that I find annoying about speed boost mounts is, the tendency that some players use it when agroed to run fropm mobs they themselves irritated, and then run them to other people that are fighting other mobs.

I can understand feeling frustrated by being slowed down when you enter combat, or get hit by another mob. My concern is, to what extent a mounted player will be able to do this… run away from Mobs they irritated, and then train them to another player, that is simply minding their business…. Also, some players will do this out of pure mischief. So I feel, if you agro a mob, you should be the one to handle it, …Not have the option of outrunning it with speed boost that might then leave it near another player to handle that may already have his hands full.

Player A is running along, gets 2 Centaur Archers On his rear end… runs away trying to escape, and accidentally runs Into a warrior… zips into Player B already fighting a warrior and trampler…. Player A runs into him…past him…outraces his 2…. and drops them on Player B’s lap.

Not exactly cricket is it?

Implimentations. For me… using up one of the 7-9 slots IS balancing. Just as the engineer needs to equip Grenades. Or the Med Kit. It’s the price you pay for constant speed boost.

As to wanting it behind quest content. This is the type of stuff I lived for when I Played EverQuest. Doing the quest for speed shoes. Or having to fight tough Mobs to pick up scattered fragments of spell scrolls etc.

I really dislike that tendency other games have of locking content in a gem store. Frivolity, weapon and armor skins.. Box o’ Fun… etc.. costumes and town clothes..ya..that is fine…

I can understand that Anet doesn’t want to put something in game that some casuals may point to and say " hey how come I cannot have that?? I don’t have 3 or 4 Hours to do this quest!"

I feel that games are better when content is locked behind other content, and Have to be unlocked by playing the game…and not in a gem store, Unlockable with a Credit Card…:-) Nice to see we agree there :-)

To be honest mounts are about the most tackiest thing you can have in an mmorpg, usually the animation doesn’t look that great and since Tyria has a ton of slopes and mountains so the mounts look ridiculous when they are on an angle standing on nothing. Oh yeah and i don’t want to see massive blobs of horses and other creatures obscuring traders and vendors with them all clipping into each other it just looks completely unrefined and sloppy.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

~

I would not have a mount cost one of the skill slots. You are self one of the people who talks about balancing problems. Well that would likely introduce balancing problems.

About the speed shoes. I don’t mind if they are behind a quest. Personally I would love that even more. I figured you would prefer it being easy accessible from an NPC so you would not be forced to do much for it if you did not really want that. But put it behind a quest, fine by me.. No even better by me as I prefer having such things (mounts, mini’s skins and so on) behind specific content so you can specifically work towards what. Have said much about that in another thread.

About the hovering, there are already many hovering tonics in the game including one hovering mount (the broom) only difference would be you would no bumb into something that is below you.. simply because that is silly. So Anet obvious has nothing against hovering.
It’s something completely different as flying.
It could however then be a problem for the ’don’t show mounts’ option as your coordinate wound indeed show you hover. So that option would then have to go I think.

I think your Point of Hovering is spot on, and while I can see that dodging while Mounted would be important… we’d need a better animation than a foreward roll.

> . <

One thing that I find annoying about speed boost mounts is, the tendency that some players use it when agroed to run fropm mobs they themselves irritated, and then run them to other people that are fighting other mobs.

I can understand feeling frustrated by being slowed down when you enter combat, or get hit by another mob. My concern is, to what extent a mounted player will be able to do this… run away from Mobs they irritated, and then train them to another player, that is simply minding their business…. Also, some players will do this out of pure mischief. So I feel, if you agro a mob, you should be the one to handle it, …Not have the option of outrunning it with speed boost that might then leave it near another player to handle that may already have his hands full.

Player A is running along, gets 2 Centaur Archers On his rear end… runs away trying to escape, and accidentally runs Into a warrior… zips into Player B already fighting a warrior and trampler…. Player A runs into him…past him…outraces his 2…. and drops them on Player B’s lap.

Not exactly cricket is it?

Implimentations. For me… using up one of the 7-9 slots IS balancing. Just as the engineer needs to equip Grenades. Or the Med Kit. It’s the price you pay for constant speed boost.

As to wanting it behind quest content. This is the type of stuff I lived for when I Played EverQuest. Doing the quest for speed shoes. Or having to fight tough Mobs to pick up scattered fragments of spell scrolls etc.

I really dislike that tendency other games have of locking content in a gem store. Frivolity, weapon and armor skins.. Box o’ Fun… etc.. costumes and town clothes..ya..that is fine…

I can understand that Anet doesn’t want to put something in game that some casuals may point to and say " hey how come I cannot have that?? I don’t have 3 or 4 Hours to do this quest!"

I feel that games are better when content is locked behind other content, and Have to be unlocked by playing the game…and not in a gem store, Unlockable with a Credit Card…:-) Nice to see we agree there :-)

Yeah we agree about that. In fact one of the reason I was so interested in GW2 was because it was B2P. So you may expect them to make mainly mainly with game and expansion sales simply to avoid those sort of things. Sadly ArenaNet did make a 180 pretty much and is now just focusing on the cash-shop to generate money. So we do get that sort of cash-shop related problems.

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

Devata.6589:

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

There is a difference between outrunning a mob using a 10 second quickness, and using a constant speed buff. Especially since the way most anti-mount players would accept any mount at all is if it is for out-of-combat travel.

So if you get near a mob while travelling, you need to be slowed down… so that you deal with it. This is part of limits.

And the difference between, outrunning 90 % of Mobs using a combat speed buff…and 95 % of mobs using an out-of-combat travel mount is OP.

That 5 % that is being dumped on someone’s lap is 5 % too many for many people that do not even want to see a mount in the game to begin with.

There is such a thing as “Leaving well enough alone.” And knowing when asking too much may get ya nothing at all. Remember these mounts are not combat mounts… these are travel mounts… the compromise between the Combat mounts you want, and the cosmetic only mounts that many players on my side do not even want.

Cue in Obligatory song:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

There is a difference between outrunning a mob using a 10 second quickness, and using a constant speed buff. Especially since the way most anti-mount players would accept any mount at all is if it is for out-of-combat travel.

So if you get near a mob while travelling, you need to be slowed down… so that you deal with it. This is part of limits.

And the difference between, outrunning 90 % of Mobs using a combat speed buff…and 95 % of mobs using an out-of-combat travel mount is OP.

That 5 % that is being dumped on someone’s lap is 5 % too many for many people that do not even want to see a mount in the game to begin with.

There is such a thing as “Leaving well enough alone.” And knowing when asking too much may get ya nothing at all. Remember these mounts are not combat mounts… these are travel mounts… the compromise between the Combat mounts you want, and the cosmetic only mounts that many players on my side do not even want.

Cue in Obligatory song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw

I mean it does not make a huge difference for the player that gets the mob attacking him because somebody else pulled him, if the other guy did that on a mount or he did it by foot.

He still gets attacked by it and the number of times that happen should not increase a lot because we can already outrun 90% of the mobs.

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

There is a difference between outrunning a mob using a 10 second quickness, and using a constant speed buff. Especially since the way most anti-mount players would accept any mount at all is if it is for out-of-combat travel.

So if you get near a mob while travelling, you need to be slowed down… so that you deal with it. This is part of limits.

And the difference between, outrunning 90 % of Mobs using a combat speed buff…and 95 % of mobs using an out-of-combat travel mount is OP.

That 5 % that is being dumped on someone’s lap is 5 % too many for many people that do not even want to see a mount in the game to begin with.

There is such a thing as “Leaving well enough alone.” And knowing when asking too much may get ya nothing at all. Remember these mounts are not combat mounts… these are travel mounts… the compromise between the Combat mounts you want, and the cosmetic only mounts that many players on my side do not even want.

Cue in Obligatory song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw

I mean it does not make a huge difference for the player that gets the mob attacking him because somebody else pulled him, if the other guy did that on a mount or he did it by foot.

He still gets attacked by it and the number of times that happen should not increase a lot because we can already outrun 90% of the mobs.

I disagree. As a player that has been in games where I had a couple of Mobs under control, to simply have someone ride up…. being chased by a bunch of Mobs, that subsequently peel off the mount rider, then zero in on me, It makes a huge difference. You can choose to believe what you wish. But speaking as someone that has had this happened to me…. death through my own incompetence I can handle, and i can just go ’ hey, you win some, you lose some." But when someone rides up to you…. and then rides away, and the Mobs that were chasing him, turn to beat me down…. It does make a difference.

I can understand why you do not wish to think so, the reason is self-serving. If you simply cover your ears with your fingers and go " lalalalalalala" then you do not have to hear what happens.

Here is why this should concern you. This is a legitimate gripe that players have with speed-boost mounts. And while I can understand you rather discount the complaint and not deal with it, if you seriously expect the devs to take you seriously, you need to take the complaint seriously. Because they are taking it seriously.

You will not come across your best with your callous attitude.

Well folks, prepare to be amazed.

I think I found the solution to the Mount Debate. After 20 pages of back and forth with the constant reitteration of the same old talking points from so many other threads, you may rest your weary head, I have solved the problem.

We allow Mounts in the game but only the Invisible Horses from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

• Now anybody who wants a mount can have one.
• There is no swiftness balancing issue as the mounts can not travel any faster then the rider.
• Those who don’t want mounts in the game are happy as they can not see them anyway.
• There is no problem with the Pay to Play crowd because there would be no cost for this new mount in gems or gold.
• ANet would have to add 2 new emotes into the game though /mount & /dismount, hopefully this is not too much Dev time

So there you have it problem solved for everyone in one fell swoop of an unladen swallow.

Now, where did I put those coconut halves?

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

Well folks, prepare to be amazed.

I think I found the solution to the Mount Debate. After 20 pages of back and forth with the constant reitteration of the same old talking points from so many other threads, you may rest your weary head, I have solved the problem.

We allow Mounts in the game but only the Invisible Horses from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

• Now anybody who wants a mount can have one.
• There is no swiftness balancing issue as the mounts can not travel any faster then the rider.
• Those who don’t want mounts in the game are happy as they can not see them anyway.
• There is no problem with the Pay to Play crowd because there would be no cost for this new mount in gems or gold.
• ANet would have to add 2 new emotes into the game though /mount & /dismount, hopefully this is not too much Dev time

So there you have it problem solved for everyone in one fell swoop of an unladen swallow.

Now, where did I put those coconut halves?

+20 for originality. Sign me up. I can get behind this. And if the devs wanna toss in a broom with a Horse head On it, that a person can go " giddy-up" I’m good with that too.

I would only be okay with mounts if my Asura could put a saddle on a Charr…or better yet, my Charr could put a saddle on an Asura….MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Nerelith.7360:

runeblade.7514:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

Simple, keep all the speed boost mounts out of WvW, or PvP, only for PvE.

I can support this.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Astralporing.1957:

runeblade.7514:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

It was in WvW subforum, but was about general gear and class balance.

People think that PvE and PvP are separate and they are not. One affects the other, so the balance is very delicate to handle.

Toys and some/most/all karma consumables do not work in WvW. There are traits and skills that are different in WvW, sPvP and PvE. So you are wrong, PvE and PvP is separate.

runeblade.7514:

Nerelith.7360:

runeblade.7514:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

I don’t care about WvW.

Talk about PvE instead.

Simple, keep all the speed boost mounts out of WvW, or PvP, only for PvE.

I can support this.

I can see both sides of this issue, but I like this idea. Just leave mounts exclusive to PvE. Though I’m not sure where they’d go in combat. Like, would players instantly stow them like a ranger’s pet the second they enter combat? I suppose that could work.

Either way, I think mounts would offer a nice alternative to travel, especially when players wouldn’t mind taking the “scenic route.” It’d also be a boon to RPers as well, as I’m sure traveling long distances on mounts would be more appealing than simply blipping from one waypoint to the next.

Solution: How about we just keep mounts out of PvE, sPvP, and WvW…but allow them in all other game modes?

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

There is a difference between outrunning a mob using a 10 second quickness, and using a constant speed buff. Especially since the way most anti-mount players would accept any mount at all is if it is for out-of-combat travel.

So if you get near a mob while travelling, you need to be slowed down… so that you deal with it. This is part of limits.

And the difference between, outrunning 90 % of Mobs using a combat speed buff…and 95 % of mobs using an out-of-combat travel mount is OP.

That 5 % that is being dumped on someone’s lap is 5 % too many for many people that do not even want to see a mount in the game to begin with.

There is such a thing as “Leaving well enough alone.” And knowing when asking too much may get ya nothing at all. Remember these mounts are not combat mounts… these are travel mounts… the compromise between the Combat mounts you want, and the cosmetic only mounts that many players on my side do not even want.

Cue in Obligatory song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw

I mean it does not make a huge difference for the player that gets the mob attacking him because somebody else pulled him, if the other guy did that on a mount or he did it by foot.

He still gets attacked by it and the number of times that happen should not increase a lot because we can already outrun 90% of the mobs.

I disagree. As a player that has been in games where I had a couple of Mobs under control, to simply have someone ride up…. being chased by a bunch of Mobs, that subsequently peel off the mount rider, then zero in on me, It makes a huge difference. You can choose to believe what you wish. But speaking as someone that has had this happened to me…. death through my own incompetence I can handle, and i can just go ’ hey, you win some, you lose some." But when someone rides up to you…. and then rides away, and the Mobs that were chasing him, turn to beat me down…. It does make a difference.

I can understand why you do not wish to think so, the reason is self-serving. If you simply cover your ears with your fingers and go " lalalalalalala" then you do not have to hear what happens.

Here is why this should concern you. This is a legitimate gripe that players have with speed-boost mounts. And while I can understand you rather discount the complaint and not deal with it, if you seriously expect the devs to take you seriously, you need to take the complaint seriously. Because they are taking it seriously.

You will not come across your best with your callous attitude.

I think you did not get me.

I totally understand you completely dislike it if that happens to you. I know the feeling of being upset when you die because of something like that.

I get furious at this game often when I die because mobs that I already killed multiple times keep respawning before I killed the complete group. Thats similar in that it’s out of your control and should not happen.

So I get that feeling, and I get it why you dislike it if people can do it.

The only part I do not get is that this can already happen now without mounts and then why it would be more upsetting with mounts. It’s just upsetting with or without mounts but why is it more upsetting to you with mounts? That part I really don’t get. Has nothing to do with not wanting to know I really don’t get that.

Devata.6589:

I think you did not get me.

I totally understand you completely dislike it if that happens to you. I know the feeling of being upset when you die because of something like that.

I get furious at this game often when I die because mobs that I already killed multiple times keep respawning before I killed the complete group. Thats similar in that it’s out of your control and should not happen.

So I get that feeling, and I get it why you dislike it if people can do it.

The only part I do not get is that this can already happen now without mounts and then why it would be more upsetting with mounts. It’s just upsetting with or without mounts but why is it more upsetting to you with mounts? That part I really don’t get. Has nothing to do with not wanting to know I really don’t get that.

It is more upsetting with mounts because the constant speed buff would allow griefers to just run up..agro a few Mobs.. then run with them to you… then outrun them after they agroed on you.

Maybe they MIGHT be able to do this with the skills they have now…but… maybe the 10 second quickness is Not enough… maybe they need to use a few dodges, and maybe they don’t get vigor, or stamina back, before they themselves gert trounced by their train.

A constant speed boost mount, makes it easier to train, …. makes it easier to grief others. As long as you have a constant speed buff that allows you to outrun mobs that then get agroed on other players just minding their own Businss…you need to understand this griefing is … One of the consequences of a speed boost mount.

And simply saying " But you shouldn’t care, because…..if you do that is silly of you to care, and it’s Nothing to do with me or My desire for speed boost mounts…. sucks to be you."

Ummm…That is Not Likely to win you any converts. Fact is, while I was of half a Mind to go with the " speed boost mounts" idea before. I now see what i was saying was correct.

“Slippery Slope” when it comes to speed boost mounts is NOT a fallacy here.

Suddenly people want combat mounts as well… and No slow down ehen agrowed… and if they agro something that they outrun and it attacks someone fighting something else.." sucks to be them..and they should not care that i was Mounted, and if they do, I Just don’t understand why they care, because ..I don’t.’??

hmmm…. Not sure that is the type of attitude this game needs.

hip.8435:

Solution: How about we just keep mounts out of PvE, sPvP, and WvW…but allow them in all other game modes?

I don’t support this.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

I think you did not get me.

I totally understand you completely dislike it if that happens to you. I know the feeling of being upset when you die because of something like that.

I get furious at this game often when I die because mobs that I already killed multiple times keep respawning before I killed the complete group. Thats similar in that it’s out of your control and should not happen.

So I get that feeling, and I get it why you dislike it if people can do it.

The only part I do not get is that this can already happen now without mounts and then why it would be more upsetting with mounts. It’s just upsetting with or without mounts but why is it more upsetting to you with mounts? That part I really don’t get. Has nothing to do with not wanting to know I really don’t get that.

It is more upsetting with mounts because the constant speed buff would allow griefers to just run up..agro a few Mobs.. then run with them to you… then outrun them after they agroed on you.

Maybe they MIGHT be able to do this with the skills they have now…but… maybe the 10 second quickness is Not enough… maybe they need to use a few dodges, and maybe they don’t get vigor, or stamina back, before they themselves gert trounced by their train.

A constant speed boost mount, makes it easier to train, …. makes it easier to grief others. As long as you have a constant speed buff that allows you to outrun mobs that then get agroed on other players just minding their own Businss…you need to understand this griefing is … One of the consequences of a speed boost mount.

And simply saying " But you shouldn’t care, because…..if you do that is silly of you to care, and it’s Nothing to do with me or My desire for speed boost mounts…. sucks to be you."

Ummm…That is Not Likely to win you any converts. Fact is, while I was of half a Mind to go with the " speed boost mounts" idea before. I now see what i was saying was correct.

“Slippery Slope” when it comes to speed boost mounts is NOT a fallacy here.

Suddenly people want combat mounts as well… and No slow down ehen agrowed… and if they agro something that they outrun and it attacks someone fighting something else.." sucks to be them..and they should not care that i was Mounted, and if they do, I Just don’t understand why they care, because ..I don’t.’??

hmmm…. Not sure that is the type of attitude this game needs.

Justify slippery slope with more slippery slope.

Oh look, yet more assumption, in fact pretty much two solid pages of it.

Nobody knows anything at all about how mounts will be implemented, therefore:

1. You do not know whether players will be able to use them to drag aggro and grief. In fact if the system worked with mounts as it works on foot I can guarantee you this wouldn’t be any more possible with mounts than it is without.
2. You have no idea what mounts will look like, where they will be permitted, their size, shape, color, culling level, anything at all. And therefore do not know that mounts will be an ‘eyesore’, and no, having been an eyesore in other games says absolutely nothing about this one.
3. You do not know whether mounted speed would imbalance combat, PvP, or WvW.
4. If mounts are available in combat, you have no idea how that would even work, what gameplay it would add or what it would damage.
5. You’ve no idea how they would affect the economy as you have no idea how they would be obtained.
6. You’ve no idea at all about how much development time they would take. Quit making up bullcrap on this, none of you are game developers, quit pretending to be.

7. Most of all, you have no idea how many players want or do not want mounts. One group of forumites, obviously and heavily influenced by herd poisoning, says nothing at all about the opinions of the playerbase at large on the subject.

Conncept.7638:

Oh look, yet more assumption, in fact pretty much two solid pages of it.

Nobody knows anything at all about how mounts will be implemented, therefore:

1. You do not know whether players will be able to use them to drag aggro and grief. In fact if the system worked with mounts as it works on foot I can guarantee you this wouldn’t be any more possible with mounts than it is without.
2. You have no idea what mounts will look like, where they will be permitted, their size, shape, color, culling level, anything at all. And therefore do not know that mounts will be an ‘eyesore’, and no, having been an eyesore in other games says absolutely nothing about this one.
3. You do not know whether mounted speed would imbalance combat, PvP, or WvW.
4. If mounts are available in combat, you have no idea how that would even work, what gameplay it would add or what it would damage.
5. You’ve no idea how they would affect the economy as you have no idea how they would be obtained.
6. You’ve no idea at all about how much development time they would take. Quit making up bullcrap on this, none of you are game developers, quit pretending to be.

7. Most of all, you have no idea how many players want or do not want mounts. One group of forumites, obviously and heavily influenced by herd poisoning, says nothing at all about the opinions of the playerbase at large on the subject.

This post destroys all anti-mount arguments.

runeblade.7514:

Conncept.7638:

Oh look, yet more assumption, in fact pretty much two solid pages of it.

Nobody knows anything at all about how mounts will be implemented, therefore:

1. You do not know whether players will be able to use them to drag aggro and grief. In fact if the system worked with mounts as it works on foot I can guarantee you this wouldn’t be any more possible with mounts than it is without.
2. You have no idea what mounts will look like, where they will be permitted, their size, shape, color, culling level, anything at all. And therefore do not know that mounts will be an ‘eyesore’, and no, having been an eyesore in other games says absolutely nothing about this one.
3. You do not know whether mounted speed would imbalance combat, PvP, or WvW.
4. If mounts are available in combat, you have no idea how that would even work, what gameplay it would add or what it would damage.
5. You’ve no idea how they would affect the economy as you have no idea how they would be obtained.
6. You’ve no idea at all about how much development time they would take. Quit making up bullcrap on this, none of you are game developers, quit pretending to be.

7. Most of all, you have no idea how many players want or do not want mounts. One group of forumites, obviously and heavily influenced by herd poisoning, says nothing at all about the opinions of the playerbase at large on the subject.

This post destroys all anti-mount arguments.

No it doesn’t. Fact is, I am pretty certain that short of a Lot of balancing… which the devs will not do for a mear fluff item Like Mounts…. Speed Boost Mounts are not gonna happen this year.

may not happen next year. Of course this is where everyone will say " are you One of the dev team?"

the reasons why speed boost mounts will never be added to this game have already been enumerated. Mostly because the best that MOST…Not all..but MOST “Pro-mount” proponents will give as reasons for it are " I want it, and it’s cool."

and I sincerely doubt that Anet will rebalance all it’s classes and WP system, because some people think." it will be cool."

This destroys all Pro-mount arguments.

Ok, it really doesn’t… but then again, neither did the post before destroy all anti-mount arguments.

Nerelith.7360:

No it doesn’t. Fact is, I am pretty certain that short of a Lot of balancing… which the devs will not do for a mear fluff item Like Mounts…. Speed Boost Mounts are not gonna happen this year.

Conncept.7638:

3. You do not know whether mounted speed would imbalance combat, PvP, or WvW.

Oh you’re ‘pretty certain’, well that changes everything!

You don’t have any idea what speed boost mounts will come with a mount, it could be minuscule or huge, be specific to certain areas, available under certain condition, heck mounts could be completely combat-based with no speed boost at all. And if so, you’ve no evidence at all to say whether or not it would be imbalanced.

Nerelith.7360:

the reasons why speed boost mounts will never be added to this game have already been enumerated. Mostly because the best that MOST…Not all..but MOST “Pro-mount” proponents will give as reasons for it are " I want it, and it’s cool."

Yes they have been enumerated, and subsequently proven to be false because they are ALL based entirely on assumption. You know what isn’t? Believing it would be fun. Neither is believing it wouldn’t be fun, but inventing nonsensical ‘evidence’ to prove that point rather than just standing by what you think is petty.

When you get any REAL evidence of how mounts would be implemented, and with that the flaws they would have, then you’ll have a point, but until then, you have nothing but hot air and blind repetition of an opinion you likely only hold because it is popular to do so.

Nerelith.7360:

and I sincerely doubt that Anet will rebalance all it’s classes and WP system, because some people think." it will be cool."

Your ‘doubts’ do not matter any more than your ‘pretty certainties’. Anet just added a map last patch, they’re not going to balance for it, never going to put it in tournament rotation. Know the only reason they added it? Because players thought it would be ‘cool’ and ‘fun’ to have a death match map.

It’s a game, a desire for it to be ‘fun’ is a far more legitimate argument than closed-minded unexplainable hatred, if you want every system to be placed for a perfectly logical reason, look elsewhere.