Guild Wars 2

I am really inexperienced with forums, so I hope I’m doing this right.

Proposal Overview
Making musical instruments more fun to buy and use:
a) being able to play accidental notes (the black keys on a piano)
b) lowering the cooldown threshold when playing consequent chords fast
c) being able to compose and store melodies in-game to use
d) being able to play synchronized songs with other players

Goal of Proposal
a) To be able to play virtually any song in-game, since the range of melodies that can be played now is very limited and the instruments kind of expensive for that.
b) To create a new home for the huge music-playing community of Guild Wars 2, especially with the upcoming expansion and the introduction of Guild Halls.

Proposal Functionality
This archived post is in full detail :https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/audio/Enhancement-of-music-instruments/first#post4591289

Associated Risks
I can’t think of any.

If this isn’t the place to post this, feel free to move it or redirect me.

I am afraid you can not create your very own CDI, but you can post suggestions here.

Welcome to the forums, and good luck.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I am afraid you can not create your very own CDI, but you can post suggestions here.

Welcome to the forums, and good luck.

Should I rename the topic? Or it’s not a big deal?

I would. Only Chris Whiteside, Studio Design Director, creates CDI threads, usually.

And, now, they only appear in the CDI sub-forum.

Not a big deal, don’t worry. =)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I would. Only Chris Whiteside, Studio Design Director, creates CDI threads, usually.

And, now, they only appear in the CDI sub-forum.

Not a big deal, don’t worry. =)

Thanks for the heads up!

Good thread. It’s very positive.

In addition to the above, I’d also like to propose two suggestions to enrich the instrument system:

1.) The addition of a bass instrument of some sort. The current collection plays roughly within the same three octive range either in part or it’s entirety. A 2 or 3 octive bass instrument can add a fourth octive the the total GW2 range and be a unique playing experience while not diminishing the value of the other instruments.

Design/lore wise, it wouldn’t have to be as large and complicated as a tuba (though that would be pretty cool). A trombone/sackbut is a possible option. A little more compact, has a simple shape, and can fit in with the lore.

2.) Change the pitches of the Flute and Merriner’s Horn to play in C so that they can be played harmoniously with the bells/lute/harp.

yes, just what the instruments need. more automation. what a great idea

Erylian.8405:

Good thread. It’s very positive.

In addition to the above, I’d also like to propose two suggestions to enrich the instrument system:

1.) The addition of a bass instrument of some sort. The current collection plays roughly within the same three octive range either in part or it’s entirety. A 2 or 3 octive bass instrument can add a fourth octive the the total GW2 range and be a unique playing experience while not diminishing the value of the other instruments.

Design/lore wise, it wouldn’t have to be as large and complicated as a tuba (though that would be pretty cool). A trombone/sackbut is a possible option. A little more compact, has a simple shape, and can fit in with the lore.

2.) Change the pitches of the Flute and Merriner’s Horn to play in C so that they can be played harmoniously with the bells/lute/harp.

Sounds good! And pretty plausible as well.

They could just give us an item to write score-sheets in the MML (Music Macro Language) format.

For more information check this page out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Macro_Language
The format used today is under the ‘modern’ section but if you are curious about its history you can read up on the older formats.

To me implementing MML would be ideal, so if they were going to go in the direction of being able to write the music that you play out in game they should use an existing format instead of making their own.

The problem with including sharps and flats is you do run out of keys. You have to put them in weird places like class f1-f4. Restricting the dodge key seems risky as sometimes people bust out the instruments before a fight and might need to actually dodge.

Anyway, my ideal would be for Anet to put a new item in the store, allowing you to play MML, leaving the instruments in game to their limited capacity to play the naturals and switch octaves.

Rough implementation idea: Item would pull mml files from a folder in your guild wars 2 documents folder like Documents\Guild Wars 2\MML, and let you choose which one to play. Invalid characters are ignored, and size limits should be enforced. The other implementation is for arenanet to store the MML information server side, and we would have to write in the MML in the client itself.

Draygo.9473:

They could just give us an item to write score-sheets in the MML (Music Macro Language) format.

For more information check this page out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Macro_Language
The format used today is under the ‘modern’ section but if you are curious about its history you can read up on the older formats.

To me implementing MML would be ideal, so if they were going to go in the direction of being able to write the music that you play out in game they should use an existing format instead of making their own.

The problem with including sharps and flats is you do run out of keys. You have to put them in weird places like class f1-f4. Restricting the dodge key seems risky as sometimes people bust out the instruments before a fight and might need to actually dodge.

Anyway, my ideal would be for Anet to put a new item in the store, allowing you to play MML, leaving the instruments in game to their limited capacity to play the naturals and switch octaves.

Rough implementation idea: Item would pull mml files from a folder in your guild wars 2 documents folder like Documents\Guild Wars 2\MML, and let you choose which one to play. Invalid characters are ignored, and size limits should be enforced. The other implementation is for arenanet to store the MML information server side, and we would have to write in the MML in the client itself.

Reminds me of a specific MMO, which uses musical instruments very frequently and has this playback mechanic (you can store melodies in text format in a game folder and then use in-game commands to play them). Sounds great and simple, although I would really like this idea applied on all the instruments.

Maybe keep the live-playing as it is, but add the option to play accidentals on playback?

All I want is a different UI for which you can map keys differently while it’s enabled to play more notes without the awkward swap method, without removing the skill-based method.

For example, a new “music” panel that when activated “slides up” covering the skill bar and the health disc. With as many keys as a piano, buttons to swap between instruments, buttons to record, play and share ABC (or MML) files and a button for settings to map the keys while the panel is active. ABC files would have to be limited in size, or have some anti-spam control, though.
Players would also be able to share music by exchanging ABC files outside of the game, as they’ll be stoed in the Guild Wars 2 documents folder like screenshots and templates.

When entering combat, anything you were playing would be interrupted and the panel would slide down.

Instruments would still work like now changing skills and being usable for music, but by having they’ll unlock for the panel. So both systems would co-exist.

It could even be an account upgrade available in the gemstore for 2000 gems or so, that once unlocked gives 3 free instruments: whistle, kazoo and claps, and you improve the feature with more instruments you unlock by purchasing them in the gemstore.

MithranArkanere.8957:

All I want is a different UI for which you can map keys differently while it’s enabled to play more notes without the awkward swap method, without removing the skill-based method.

For example, a new “music” panel that when activated “slides up” covering the skill bar and the health disc. With as many keys as a piano, buttons to swap between instruments, buttons to record, play and share ABC (or MML) files and a button for settings to map the keys while the panel is active. ABC files would have to be limited in size, or have some anti-spam control, though.
Players would also be able to share music by exchanging ABC files outside of the game, as they’ll be stoed in the Guild Wars 2 documents folder like screenshots and templates.

When entering combat, anything you were playing would be interrupted and the panel would slide down.

Instruments would still work like now changing skills and being usable for music, but by having they’ll unlock for the panel. So both systems would co-exist.

It could even be an account upgrade available in the gemstore for 2000 gems or so, that once unlocked gives 3 free instruments: whistle, kazoo and claps, and you improve the feature with more instruments you unlock by purchasing them in the gemstore.

Seems we agree on the accidental note and music recording features. I’m not sure an investment of 2000 gems will be worth it though since:

a) other heavy-RP MMOs have this feature completely for free
b) instruments are already a bit overpriced (in my opinion) for what they are capable to offer at the moment
c) casual players (who will probably want to hang around and work on their music) are not likely to have enough gold to purchase the supposed “music pack”, if they can’t afford it with gems.

However, all ideas so far sound fresh and practical. Let’s hope we can attract some dev attention!

i really don’t get the point of it. you can listen to songs anywhere else, why should anet go through all this trouble just to let you auto-play a music piece? if you’re so desperate to listen to your favorite songs being butchered by terrible sound fonts there are millions of remixes on youtube. at least that way you won’t be pestering other people when you go afk in LA or DR

eugenics.2561:

i really don’t get the point of it. you can listen to songs anywhere else, why should anet go through all this trouble just to let you auto-play a music piece? if you’re so desperate to listen to your favorite songs being butchered by terrible sound fonts there are millions of remixes on youtube. at least that way you won’t be pestering other people when you go afk in LA or DR

Instruments are already a part of the game, and since they are, people who use them would like to be able to do so properly (my personal vision is kind of RP oriented, as in being able to play music with guildies in guild halls or something). It can also be a nice way to share your own composed melodies with others in-game.

However, I 100% agree with you that listening to someone spamming music while afk can be quite annoying, so thank you for your contribution: a “Mute Instruments” option in the Audio section

you’re being way nicer than i deserve after wording my posts so agressively. sorry.

i still disagree with just about any of the posts in this thread though. if anything i think they’ve accommodated the people who want automation enough by allowing macros and should start focusing on ways to make manual play enticing again, since it’s such a unique social thing in the game, i find. i’ve met some insanely talented musicians through Musician’s Guild of Tyria, Cmaj and Musical Necromancy making stuff way beyond what should be possible with the system, and i can’t even imagine what they could do with a more intuitive interface

eugenics.2561:

you’re being way nicer than i deserve after wording my posts so agressively. sorry.

i still disagree with just about any of the posts in this thread though. if anything i think they’ve accommodated the people who want automation enough by allowing macros and should start focusing on ways to make manual play enticing again, since it’s such a unique social thing in the game, i find. i’ve met some insanely talented musicians through Musician’s Guild of Tyria, Cmaj and Musical Necromancy making stuff way beyond what should be possible with the system, and i can’t even imagine what they could do with a more intuitive interface

No need to apologize, nice of you though (dam, the guild wars community never stops to amaze me with its friendliness).

As for the automation, although I would like to see it happen (not everyone is blessed with the talent of fast keyboard fingers), it’s not necessary to happen as long as we can at least play accidentals. I can’t stress enough how many songs and melodies can be ruined by this small detail.

One way to do it without screwing the keybinds to much is to put the shift in the F1 and F2.

Hit F1 then the key to play the note to play flat, F2 then the note to play sharp. Could make playing more difficult but you arn’t looking for another random key like dodge. For the naturals that don’t have a flat or sharp it just plays the natural above or below. So if you hit flat then C it would play B of the lower octave – which could be used to save switching octaves when going B→C and C→B.

I’m all for accidentals being playable. It makes me all Eb minor that it isn’t in.

I would prefer MML playback, can do some really neat stuff with it.

Well I guess the subject is pretty covered overall. Can’t think of anything new. I wonder if there is a way to get a comment from a developer about whether anything of the above is possible?

my problem with musical instruments is the big lag from the moment you play a note till the moment you hear it. It makes it impossible for me to play anything, unless i am not listening (and i do want to listen to what i am playing)

If we are to ask for things, how about implementing midi conectivity? So i can play the instruments from my keyboard controller. That would be fun, specially if i get to apply a LFO with a low pass filter to the lute, LOL.

I’d suggest a compose mode ,then you can save the track to your inventory

If you then swap to perform mode; you can drag the track you composed to a slot and play your finished composition.
there could be tracks for sale in the shop too

Basically you could swap between compose and perform mode as you’d swap weapons

Aenesthesia.1697:

my problem with musical instruments is the big lag from the moment you play a note till the moment you hear it. It makes it impossible for me to play anything, unless i am not listening (and i do want to listen to what i am playing)

If we are to ask for things, how about implementing midi conectivity? So i can play the instruments from my keyboard controller. That would be fun, specially if i get to apply a LFO with a low pass filter to the lute, LOL.

I didn’t suggest it because I don’t know if it is even possible for the devs to do something about the lag never mind the ability to use a MIDI keyboard.

But fixing the lag alone would be like Christmas.

yea I bought a flute and I thought my keyboard was broken when I got stuck playing 1 tune..good to know its lag

FOR THE LAG:

Devs, please allow the instruments to play their notes LOCALLY, this would allow us to hear the notes being played immediately and not be off by a whole second, making it impossible to play. If the notes play locally, client side, on our own machine, there should be no delay.

I would also add that the resulting sound that gets created and played in game should NOT be audible to the person playing the instrument, so they do not hear two copies of the note.

The lag on the notes is the only thing keeping me from playing and enjoying my instruments ! (I have the flute and the lute)

kaeru.7196:

FOR THE LAG:

Devs, please allow the instruments to play their notes LOCALLY, this would allow us to hear the notes being played immediately and not be off by a whole second, making it impossible to play. If the notes play locally, client side, on our own machine, there should be no delay.

I would also add that the resulting sound that gets created and played in game should NOT be audible to the person playing the instrument, so they do not hear two copies of the note.

The lag on the notes is the only thing keeping me from playing and enjoying my instruments ! (I have the flute and the lute)

That isn’t a bad idea.

However this would make things more difficult for guilds and groups that are dedicated to playing together if everyone hears their notes accurately but everyone else is lagged. At least when everyone lags the individuals can compensate.

But again….it’s not a bad idea. Especially for solo play. Even more so if it can be toggled on and off.

Just give us a bard class

Erylian.8405:

kaeru.7196:

FOR THE LAG:

Devs, please allow the instruments to play their notes LOCALLY, this would allow us to hear the notes being played immediately and not be off by a whole second, making it impossible to play. If the notes play locally, client side, on our own machine, there should be no delay.

I would also add that the resulting sound that gets created and played in game should NOT be audible to the person playing the instrument, so they do not hear two copies of the note.

The lag on the notes is the only thing keeping me from playing and enjoying my instruments ! (I have the flute and the lute)

That isn’t a bad idea.

However this would make things more difficult for guilds and groups that are dedicated to playing together if everyone hears their notes accurately but everyone else is lagged. At least when everyone lags the individuals can compensate.

But again….it’s not a bad idea. Especially for solo play. Even more so if it can be toggled on and off.

You do make an excellent point Erylian, thank you ! I do wish for a solution that can benefit group play as well. I still hope they take the localized play idea for solo players.

Well, I had not realised that lag is such a big deal but even if this is fixed, the problem with accidentals remains..