Guild Wars 2

Last times, I’ve been distraught by the “optionality” of every other build than Direct damage and Direct damage Support.*
Rather than “optional”, those builds have almost no effect on results, when compared to DPS and DPS-support.

Supporting others is also psychological. Having no effect on results equals that you’re useless, this is mostly because of the PvE content designs.

First thing: GW2 Trinity.

• DPS can provide support and CC, but they focus solely on DPS, while effects of CC and Support are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal damage and CC, but they focus solely on Support, while effects of DPS and CC are less potent. This is Support role.
• CC can deal damage and provide support, but they focus solely on CC, while effects of DPS and Support are less potent. This is CC role.

Open PvE and Group events:

Playing as healer support HAS ALMOST NO EFFECT ON RESULTS, Mobs rarely use boons SO BOON MANUPULATIONS ARE USELESS IN MOST CASES, Conditions damage REQUIRES MORE TIME TO CREATE RESULTS BUT MOBS ARE SLAUGHTERED TOO FAST and CC isn’t much use due to heavy scale up and ANY MOBS LESSER THAN CHAMPION RARELY POSE SERIOUS THREAT THAT SHOULD BE CCED.

Also that two good mob ranks are treated as “trash” ranks, Veteran and Elite, these two could be given toned down versions of higher rank mobs abilities, giving builds, other than DPS and DPS-support, targets to utilize their abilities against.

This applies mostly on “Zhaitan Campaing” (PvE, PvP and content that came in same “box”), which is designed to be easy and uses “Play how I want” concept.
Unfortunate fact is that it’s too easy and doesn’t have any form of solid Tutorial, which means alot of players don’t even know what “dodge” means and some think that Aggro doesn’t exist.

Repeating again: Any other build other than Direct damage or Direct damage Support, don’t have much of effect on results, which means players play as DPS builds to kill mobs fast, create all the required results, because the mobs use same overall design everywhere.
Rather than “optional”, those builds are useless, since they cannot create results to match that what DPS and DPS-support can.

The release of Season 2 LS did bring out more elaborate combat, giving more use for dodging, healing, CC, boon manipulation and Conditions.

Direct damage and direct damage support builds are still usable, but other builds now have more SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON RESULTS, making them more viable.

My suggestion is not to remove “play how I want”, but to update the old content, bring variety and stuff into it, this will cause healing, CC, Boon manipulation and Conditions to create more significant results in combat, so that they can match Direct damage and direct damage support.

(Edited with highlights, since some players seem to think I’m talking about forcing players to play roles and then proceed to ignore this main topic-post…)

The content would be still possible to complete with any build, but the less used builds will create results to match the now best builds.

Example:

• Mobs apply 3-5-10 stacks of might or retaliation on themselves, having boon manipulations ready can reduce the damage these might stacks or retaliation creates.
  One can still kill these mobs without Boon Manipulation skills.
• Mobs have more armor, direct damage builds cannot defeat them fast enough, conditions will chew through it however.
  One can still kill these mobs without Conditions.
• Mobs of lesser ranks (Veterans and Elites) will use abilities that can devastate groups if left unattented, bringing CC can prevent them from using these abilities.
  One can still kill these mobs without CC skills.
• Mobs apply constantly conditions so that singular player’s own abilities cannot stop these, healer support can provide “First Aid” and help the players to live through this.
  One can still kill these mobs without Healing skills.
• Mobs create Area denial pressure, players can quickly exhaust their defensive abilities, unless there’s player that can provide helpful boons.
  One can still kill these mobs without Helpful Boons.

• Even if mobs would use any of those, players still can defeat them with any build they choose to use. Though results are be better if every type of builds are present in the combat scenario.

Also, since “Zhaitan Campaing” is technically “SUPER EASY MODE”, where you can get rewarded so easily that you don’t have to use utilities or dodge functions.
My suggestion is NOT about making it like 1-hit-you’re-dead.

With correct adjustment, which were used on the season 2 Mordrem, bosses and giant beetles, it’ll be still EASY, but not ridiculous “SUPER EASY MODE”, where all mobs use universal design which is best dealt with high powered Direct Damage builds.

In fractals you got some of those things already that you want.
In several fractals there are mobs that give boons to eachother (Ascalonian/Grawl one)
Mobs can be lv83, so they have more hp/defence.
Some bosses can be “cc’d” (crowd control, 1 boss isn’t a crowd) with immoblize.
(Mossman/Archdiviner/Mai Trin are made easier that way)
Uncategorized fractal has Harpies that can knock you from a platform and in Cliffside you can fall off if you get hit by the blowing wind or fireball. Ya, Stability/Projectile reflects are useful.
And then we got all the mistlock instabilities.
Wanna hear whats funny? The majority of the fractal lvls on LFG are advertising for the less annoying mistlock instabilities.
So in the beginning players might enjoy your suggested changes, in the end players prefer the easy ways.

ps. condition still cap at 25 and don’t work on structures

luzt.7692:

So in the beginning players might enjoy your suggested changes, in the end players prefer the easy ways.

Yeah, since Zhaitan Campaing offers the easiest possible, some encounters can be done without even dodging once.
And it’s typical that some players look for exploitable flaws, for a easy gains.

I’ve seen some players complain about the new mordrem too, about that it’s too much their use of short duration retaliation, heavy DoT and area denial.

Sometimes I wonder if the bosses that can be pretty much “cced” with immobilize, which causes that they cannot do stuff properly, who knows, ANet tested cripple, immob and chill immunity on the new season 2 event bosses in Dry Top, who knows if they extend that further to new content, and even old content.

Including that Fractals, they’re designed to be fully optional (It was added into the game later, so it’s not technically part of Zhaitan Campaing, nor does it have any ties with story mode either, like the dungeons that came with Zhaitan Campaing), unlike other content. Since crafting Ascended is not must game content, if I don’t craft ascended, I can’t play most of it, only the 1-10 levels.

Not to mention the lack of tutorial about the game combat mechanics, which I also mentioned…

Sounds like the OP is trying to sneak the trinity system into this game.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sounds like the OP is trying to sneak the trinity system into this game.

The Trinity does exist, but most content is designed to be too easy, which is why part of community refuses to acknowledge GW2 Trinity of “Support, CC and DPS”. Those just say that there’s only DPS and DPS Support. CC has limited use, since there are not many mobs to CC, majority are just Champs, which are pretty much immune in open world PvE (intended design to prevent stun locks, players are not always very coordinated in open PvE champs).

You can do nearly all content with only DPS and DPS support, due to the simple design.

Playing Healer Support, CC, Heavy Conditions and Boon manipulation are useless in majority of content (Mainly Zhaitan Campaing), as I’ve pointed out before, there are not enough mob varieties to make a difference, nor are there mobs that really do put players to fully use the combat system.

The release of S2 living story:

• Introduced Three-Toed-Tootsie and Giant Beetles, which are very vulnerable to CC. CC builds are very effective.
• Extended use of Heavy armor in form of common mob “Mordrem Husk”, which chops off 75% from direct damage. Conditions will chew through them quick however. Conditions can deal the full damage since zerkers cannot chop these mobs too quick.
• Mordrem Hounds will buff nearby mobs with High Power Retaliation, boon removal has use, since the hounds can reapply it quite fast. On other hand, Hounds are spikers, dealing huge single attack damage, especially on the back. Boon manipulation is good to have, or the players will need more help if they fail to kill these fast enough.
• Mordrem Trashers have devastating DoT and AoE attacks, which act as Area Denial. Players can choose to dodge and attack, or bring Healer Support to reduce the damage from DoT and AoE that chip health off, or CC to prevent these mobs from using their abilities.
• Jungle Tendrils utilize heavy area denial, possessing powerful melee attack and inflict conditions, Veterans and above will bombard areas with poison so standing on 1 spot is instant down, second volley of poison means death, dodging their attacks and strategically attack them (Melee or ranged) will kill them.

So, yes, I’m trying to introduce the GW2 Trinity into more use.

Except your suggestions would make it almost necessary to have those type of roles. Those roles of support, CC, and damage can be performed by all members at the same time. You don’t need to waste a slot for someone to specifically do that role.

Oh. The GW2 trinity was more of a joke at the expense of the typIcal MMO trinity. Nobody ever tries to invite players to groups based on those roles. It’s only the people that are stuck in the trinity mindset, and unwilling to accept that this games does not follow that, who try to do that.

Many of us love GW2 because of the lack of a trinity system. What you’re attempting to do is bring it back. No thanks.

Ayrilana.1396:

Except your suggestions would make it almost necessary to have those type of roles. Those roles of support, CC, and damage can be performed by all members at the same time. You don’t need to waste a slot for someone to specifically do that role.

Oh. The GW2 trinity was more of a joke at the expense of the typIcal MMO trinity. Nobody ever tries to invite players to groups based on those roles. It’s only the people that are stuck in the trinity mindset, and unwilling to accept that this games does not follow that, who try to do that.
Many of us love GW2 because of the lack of a trinity system. What you’re attempting to do is bring it back. No thanks.

Since I pointed out that the other “optional” roles have almost no effect on results…

Since the LS2 brought out the mobs.

And I’m not talking about dedicated slots. Support Healer, CC, Heavy Conditions and Boon Manipulations are underused and unrewarding mechanics, since Zhaitan Campaing mobs melt too fast when using Direct damage only, which is the reason players denounce the GW2 Trinity of “Support, CC and DPS”.

Again, Support Healer, CC, Heavy Conditions and Boon Manipulations are not limited to what they do, they can still deal damage, since dealing damage is requirement for contribution, mechanic to prevent dedicated roles.

I also mentioned that you can still defeat the LS2 mobs without Healer Support, CC, Heavy Conditions and Boon manipulation. This is integral to “play how I want”.

My suggestion is to cause these builds to have more effect on results, which means mobs are slightly more resistant against Direct Damage and Direct Damage support builds. They are not impossible to defeat, only abit harder.

Same would apply the other way, if there’s no Direct Damage or Direct Damage support, it’s abit harder for them too.

The GW2 Trinity exists, but Zhaitan Campaing content doesn’t give it reasons to be used, except as DPS and DPS Support.

Trinity system does not exist in the game. I think that you’re confusing what’s in the game with what a trinity system really is. Also, you’re buffing enemies so that people that want to play a specific role can do so. How is that not trying to introduce the trinity system into the game?

Ayrilana.1396:

Trinity system does not exist in the game. I think that you’re confusing what’s in the game with what a trinity system really is. Also, you’re buffing enemies so that people that want to play a specific role can do so. How is that not trying to introduce the trinity system into the game?

More like you’re confused…

I never talked about dedicated roles. I talked about having more effect with some builds, but are not the requirement to play the game.

To support these ideals, they replaced the conventional “holy trinity” system of DPS, healer, and tank with a more adaptable system of damage, control, and support.

Most classes have direct access to DPS, support, and CC. What you’re attempting to do is shift the everything so that having support and CC is now more required.

I found something:

FrostSpectre.4198:

• “Play how I want” would be Solo only. Players can no longer decide what build they use, since it could be incompactible with the group.

• Group events would be slightly harder, depending on the content, if there’s not atleast 1 of each from the Trinity.

At least one of each from the trinity. Sounds awfully like roles to me.

In your posts, you comment about how husks make having berserkers useless for as you need condition damage. You state that this kind of thing should be spread across all old PvE content. What this does is force players to have to have players to perform that specific role.

Roles and builds are the same thing. What you’re trying to do is make it so that specific build are required.

Ayrilana.1396:

Most classes have direct access to DPS, support, and CC. What you’re attempting to do is shift the everything so that having support and CC is now more required.

I found something:

FrostSpectre.4198:

• “Play how I want” would be Solo only. Players can no longer decide what build they use, since it could be incompactible with the group.

• Group events would be slightly harder, depending on the content, if there’s not atleast 1 of each from the Trinity.

At least one of each from the trinity. Sounds awfully like roles to me.

In your posts, you comment about how husks make having berserkers useless for as you need condition damage. You state that this kind of thing should be spread across all old PvE content. What this does is force players to have to have players to perform that specific role.

Roles and builds are the same thing. What you’re trying to do is make it so that specific build are required.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Last times, I’ve been distraught by the “optionality” of every other build than Direct damage and Direct damage Support.
Rather than “optional”, those builds have almost no effect on results.

Read this topics original post completely before posting…

I was mentally abit disappointed, on how playing healing support, CC, conditions and boon manipulations never did reward me, having no effect on results, since the job was better done by Direct Damage or Direct Damage Support, which can make the difference due to the too simplified design ANet used…

Now, it’s you who’re forcing the idea of dedicated roles and using that as an excuse to say that builds other than Direct Damage and Direct Damage Support should not have effect on combat scenarios.

Read my original post again.

This is a revised with “play how I want” in mind, before I was mentally disappointed on not making a difference with full cleric gear and healer-dmg support build, while I could have played full berserker and do better, even without using dodge.

My suggestion is to give more significant results when playing with Healer support, CC, Conditions and Boon manipulation builds. It’s always been about combination of stuff, not dedicated as you think it is.

You can still play any build you want in this suggestion, solo and group. You can play full berserker DPS build or full Cleric Healer Support build (Do note, playing GW2 trinity still means everyone does damage, even if the build used is Support or CC, and not a focused DPS build) and still make a difference everywhere.

Zhaitan Campaing is best done with full berserker, DPS or Support type. You don’t even need to use other combat mechanics, like dodge in most content, group or solo…

Again repeating:
GW2 trinity of “Support-CC-DPS” doesn’t mean that Support and CC don’t deal any damage, since those that set up their characters to solely to support or CC will not gain any contributions (Unless partying, but again, they’re dead-weight, since they’re dedicating their builds too much on 1 aspect)

Example: My Healer-DMG support Elementalist can heal, buff and deal damage. I even get full contribution on world bosses, however, due to poorly designed easy content, it’s like I want to do worse than others that use DPS or DPS-support builds, since the mobs don’t create situation where my healing or buffing would affect the results, and that I’m doing less damage than PVT gear builds.

The problem, at the end of the day, is that especially when it comes to open world content, the vast majority of players WANT faceroll easy content. Otherwise they complain endlessly that the content is “too hard” and “not fun.”

Do you read your own posts?

The trinity system in other games had players use specific roles to do content. In GW2, you’re forcing that system onto players by having tem need to be support, CC, or DPS. Currently all players can perform all three but you’re trying to make it so that enemies are buffed in such a way that one type is more effective than the other. At the end of your original post, you state that players are better if they have every role present.

Just for clarification, build is the same thing as role. Players bring a specific build to do a specific thing. Players have a DPS build to do DPS and players do a staff camping cleric guardian with a healing build to do healing support. These players use these builds to specialize in one particular aspect. How is that not a role? I’ll stress again that builds are roles. There can be multiple builds that fit within a role.

One example you have was that husks are best dealt with by taking condition damage. You want more of this throughout the game. You give enemies devaestatibg attacks where it would be very beneficial to have someone in a healing/support role (build). Do you not see what you’re trying to do? You’re crafting situations where one role/build is more preferred over another. Players are then forced to spread out the composition of their groups to encompass all three of the roles (builds) to be effective/efficient.

You say that pure DPS roles (builds) will still be able to do all content. Well all other roles (builds) currently can still do all content so long as they do enough damage. If they’re still doing Damage like you said (I did not say they wouldn’t) then they’ll get credit. If they’re in a group with other players in evenly split roles (builds) like you want, they’ll get credit even easier.

chemiclord.3978:

The problem, at the end of the day, is that especially when it comes to open world content, the vast majority of players WANT faceroll easy content. Otherwise they complain endlessly that the content is “too hard” and “not fun.”

Yeah, pretty much the Zhaitan Campaing to blame, which set the bar too “high” for players. Answer would be pretty much update that content, so that there is no content to support Super Easy mode…

Ayrilana.1396:

Do you read your own posts?

You haven’t read this topics post, instead you read my past topic posts and keep that as essential to this one. What an idiot, old topics have no weight…

I however admit, that I wrote those due to mental dissapointment, because when I played builds other than DPS and DPS-support, I were just useless, since the mobs weren’t capable of creating the situation where my support actually made difference.

And I used Healing-Conjure-Boon Support Elementalist, I did get maximum rewards, but I was more of dead weight, as my healing or boons didn’t do much difference compared to full berserker Staff Conjure elementalist, that I played very selfisly, but healing only ME and dealing damage, I did better than as Support Elementalist.

Get your information correct, this is not about forcing players to play specific roles. This is about making the difference with any build and not only solely with DPS or DPS-support.

The trinity system in other games had players use specific roles to do content. In GW2, you’re forcing that system onto players by having tem need to be support, CC, or DPS. Currently all players can perform all three but you’re trying to make it so that enemies are buffed in such a way that one type is more effective than the other. At the end of your original post, you state that players are better if they have every role present.

Get your information correct, this is not about forcing players to play specific roles. This is about making the difference with any build and not only solely with DPS or DPS-support.

Just for clarification, build is the same thing as role. Players bring a specific build to do a specific thing. Players have a DPS build to do DPS and players do a staff camping cleric guardian with a healing build to do healing support. These players use these builds to specialize in one particular aspect. How is that not a role? I’ll stress again that builds are roles. There can be multiple builds that fit within a role.

GW2 trinity is not about dedicated roles, it’s about combination of abilities and damage dealing, but has slight nodding on making priority of desired mechanics, like Support, CC or DPS.

• DPS can provide support and CC, but they focus solely on DPS, while effects of CC and Support are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal damage and CC, but they focus solely on Support, while effects of DPS and CC are less potent. This is Support role.
• CC can deal damage and provide support, but they focus solely on CC, while effects of DPS and Support are less potent. This is CC role.

Get your information correct, this is not about forcing players to play specific roles. This is about making the difference with any build and not only solely with DPS or DPS-support.

One example you have was that husks are best dealt with by taking condition damage. You want more of this throughout the game. You give enemies devaestatibg attacks where it would be very beneficial to have someone in a healing/support role (build). Do you not see what you’re trying to do? You’re crafting situations where one role/build is more preferred over another. Players are then forced to spread out the composition of their groups to encompass all three of the roles (builds) to be effective/efficient.

I made it clear that you can kill the Husks with any build, but Conditions would perform best against them.
You can use CC or Support against them and win if you use the combat mechanics, since the Zhaitan Campaing doesn’t teach you to use the combat mechanics.

Get your information correct, this is not about forcing players to play specific roles. This is about making the difference with any build and not only solely with DPS or DPS-support.

You say that pure DPS roles (builds) will still be able to do all content. Well all other roles (builds) currently can still do all content so long as they do enough damage. If they’re still doing Damage like you said (I did not say they wouldn’t) then they’ll get credit. If they’re in a group with other players in evenly split roles (builds) like you want, they’ll get credit even easier.

I have tested that, I can easily to not use any thing other than the weapon skills to kill nearly every mob and boss (there’s more to the context, saying “boss” doesn’t mean 1vs1, if you do, you should get some help for yourself), while also staying alive.

The mobs of Zhaitan Campaing cannot create situations that requires more use of other builds, other than DPS and DPS-support, since these mobs don’t have:
Heavy Armor, Heavy DoT, Area Denial or Buffing.

The mobs are 100% same, from beginning to end, even when scaled up.

Get your information correct, this is not about forcing players to play specific roles. This is about making the difference with any build and not only solely with DPS or DPS-support.

No need to resort to insults please. You’ll just end up getting your thread locked.

I have read your posts in this thread and 99% of my posts have been about what is in this thread. I only quoted one of your posts from a previous thread because I felt it helps to provide context into what you’re trying to suggest. Based on what I read in this thread, I felt that post was applicable.

True, you stated that all builds will be able to finish all content which was a change from your previous post except my most recent post clarified where I was going with that particular argument that you missed or haven’t realized.

Let’s say that we get an enemies type that is 75% resistant to conditions. What impact would this have in condition damage players trying to do content that contain this? They’ll find that their build is less desired. Sure they can complete the content just fine but they’re no longer effective. Reverse it and give an enemies type 75% resistance to physical damage. You know have condition damage players more desired for content that involves this content type. Of course not all content would focus solely on this enemies type so in either scenario, at least one or two slots would be reserved for the build type that was most effective.

I’m really hoping that you’re seeing where I am coming from. Your suggestions are making CC and Support builds more effective or desired at the expense of DPS builds. If you gave an enemy type a lot of movement skills similar to the moa in Dry Top, and have it so that it’s just easier for players to have someone that specializes in CC, then you’re causing players to have a CC specialized player in their group to minimize the time and pain they would have had without one.

This game was built around all classes/players providing all three forms (DPS, support, CC). Them working together and covering each other’s weaknesses is what makes groups effective. Support and CC is less important in this game compared to DPS. I am in no way saying that they should be ignored but just that they should not be a focal point for a person to pursue over DPS.

I’m not going to address your repetitive paragraph that you have throughout your recent 2-3 posts as you misunderstood my arguments and I believe the first part of this post should have clarified that for you.

In regards to your statement about GW2 trinity not being about roles, I never said that it was but said you were pushing towards that direction with your suggestions. Meh, the rest is just repeating the same thing so I won’t address the rest as well.

I completely support adding mechanics that require CC and Support. However, this must not come at the expense of other builds which are then made less effective. It should not come to the point where players are better off getting someone in their party with a build that specializes in CC or Support rather than DPS that could also provide it. CC and support is more of a secondary focus than a primary.

Would you guys quit hounding him, you didn’t read his posts at all because it is very clear that he is asking old content to be designed as new content. And where is all the complaints about the new content? Oh right, people are saying its too easy.

So let me ask you, if people are whining that new content is too easy, what do you think that makes of old content? Where you can go anywhere in open world PvE on a full zerk damage build and kill any mob in one or two hits?

PvE is facerolling easy, the new updates have helped, but those kinds of improvements need to be backported to the rest of Tyria. The OP talked almost nothing about roles but just that the current PvE implementation does not allow “play how you want”, it forces all characters into DPS because nothing else is effective.

Yes, you can play how you want, but it does not change the results significantly unless you are on a full zerker damage or damage/support build.

I have never seen something so deliberately misinterpreted.

Hannelore.8153:

Would you guys quit hounding him, you didn’t read his posts at all because it is very clear that he is asking old content to be designed as new content. And where is all the complaints about the new content? Oh right, people are saying its too easy.

So let me ask you, if people are whining that new content is too easy, what do you think that makes of old content? Where you can go anywhere in open world PvE on a full zerk damage build and kill any mob in one or two hits?

PvE is facerolling easy, the new updates have helped, but those kinds of improvements need to be backported to the rest of Tyria. The OP talked almost nothing about roles but just that the current PvE implementation does not allow “play how you want”, it forces all characters into DPS because nothing else is effective.

Yes, you can play how you want, but it does not change the results significantly unless you are on a full zerker damage or damage/support build.

I have never seen something so deliberately misinterpreted.

Finally someone who read the first post of this topic…

Thank you.

Posts by Ayrilana very obviously kept read my past topics and not this one…

Even if I admitted that: I was mentally disappointed on how builds other than DPS and DPS Support couldn’t create difference on results.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Posts by Ayrilana very obviously kept read my past topics and not this one…

Even if I admitted that: I was mentally disappointed on how builds other than DPS and DPS Support couldn’t create difference on results.

No. I only used one post from a previous thread for reasons that I have already explained why.

What you’re trying to do is buff content so that people who do CC and Support can have more of a role. You’re not trying to only buff the difficulty. Just look at your first post of this thread. In fact, look at the very first sentence.

Here’s a screenshot as I don’t feeling like going through the effort to quote just that on my phone.

Ayrilana.1396:

FrostSpectre.4198:

Posts by Ayrilana very obviously kept read my past topics and not this one…

Even if I admitted that: I was mentally disappointed on how builds other than DPS and DPS Support couldn’t create difference on results.

No. I only used one post from a previous thread for reasons that I have already explained why.

What you’re trying to do is buff content so that people who do CC and Support can have more of a role. You’re not trying to only buff the difficulty. Just look at your first post of this thread. In fact, look at the very first sentence.

Here’s a screenshot as I don’t feeling like going through the effort to quote just that on my phone.

Because playing as Support or CC roles have no purpose in majority of content, they can’t do anything about the results.

Still, I forgot to mention about the difficulty, Zhaitan Campaing is SUPER EASY.
Updating it would only make it EASY, not 1-hit-death-NINJAGAIDENFTW"…

Of course, it means buffing content, but Zhaitan Campaing is already “stand-here-use-attack-skill-and-win”, I should say “SUPER EASY MODE”, while we don’t use the whole combat system.

You can defeat the varied mobs with any build, but builds that fall to Support and CC categories will have more effect on results. I’ve repeated many times that Support and CC cannot create differences compared to DPS and DPS-support, this is from experience, since I’ve played alot with Support and CC builds.

• DPS can provide support and CC, but they focus solely on DPS, while effects of CC and Support are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal damage and CC, but they focus solely on Support, while effects of DPS and CC are less potent. This is Support role.
• CC can deal damage and provide support, but they focus solely on CC, while effects of DPS and Support are less potent. This is CC role.

You don’t have to form a party with 1 of each roles, you can use full berserker if you want to and win, but with other roles present, the experience and results will vary more.

Instead Zhaitan Campaing mobs are the following: High HP-Spike DMG-0 Armor.

This is speculation: Ranks might use numbers as multipliers, example x2 or so. Multiplying small number grows less than multiplying bigger number, that’s basic math.
I really hope the ranks do work this way, if they don’t, they would work like “+++HP and DMG, with +0.01 on armor”

Sorry, I don’t like repeating myself

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Question-Plans-on-old-group-content/first#content

etc

oxtred.7658:

Sorry, I don’t like repeating myself

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Question-Plans-on-old-group-content/first#content

etc

Unfortunately that is irrelewant topic…

I’ll admit this though, when I wrote those old topics about PvE Content, I was mentally disappointed on how playing builds that fall into category of Support and CC just didn’t create results that match DPS and DPS-support.
I wasn’t thinking clearly that time and felt that playing builds other than DPS and DPS-support, were useless (Which they still are in majority of content, even on lvl 80 areas), since mobs didn’t possess anything else other than “High HP-Spike DMG skills-0 Armor”, which is used as base on majority of the “Zhaitan Campaing” content.

This new topic here, is about making Support and CC builds to have more impact on results, so that they can match DPS and DPS-support builds.

• DoT can’t deal damage, if mobs die too quick. (If there are mobs that don’t die too quick, conditions would actually deal dmg)
• CC has no use if mobs that are good targets for it are always protected by Unshakable (Still this is important on preventing Stun-lock). (If there are mobs that have powerful abilities and are ranked Elite or Veteran, CC would have more use)
• Healing can’t create difference if mobs cannot deal damage, either that they’re killed too quickly or their abilities deal pitiful dmg-per-second. (If there are mobs that inflict DoT, healing can create breathing room against them and give their own condition removals time to recharge, spike damage is different matter, that healing cannot prevent without defensive boons)
• Boon manipulation do nothing, if the mobs just don’t use boons. (If there are mobs that apply boons, even if the boons provide small bonus to mobs dps, having boon removal would actually make a difference.

This is not about making GW2 into hardcore super hard 1-hit-you’re-dead crap.

This would move the difficulty from “SUPER EASY MODE” into “Easy”, when following the concept of “Play how I want”, which is relevant in this suggestion too.

Even if mobs would use more Heavy armor, Heavy DoT, Area Denial AoE, Healing and Boons, you can still use any build you want and win, SOLO and GROUP content. Be it full berserker or mixed Cleric-Soldier, you can make results that are similar to each other.

The suggestion would also create more learning experiences, if mobs actually create more situations to force players to use all of the combat mechanics. Of course, it’d be good if ANet creates a consistent Tutorial area with hints, information and demonstrations about the mechanics players can use.

Your points are still the same. You still don’t understand defiance. Granted, a lot of people don’t. You still see healing as a superior support. By just changing your vision of the game, you’ll see the support and control you’re asking for.

oxtred.7658:

Your points are still the same. You still don’t understand defiance. Granted, a lot of people don’t. You still see healing as a superior support. By just changing your vision of the game, you’ll see the support and control you’re asking for.

Unshakable (Still this is important on preventing Stun-lock)

Oh well, gotta write the same set of points on how “optional” are builds, other than DPS and DPS-support.

First GW2 Trinity:

• DPS can provide support and CC, but they focus solely on DPS, while effects of CC and Support are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal damage and CC, but they focus solely on Support, while effects of DPS and CC are less potent. This is Support role.
• CC can deal damage and provide support, but they focus solely on CC, while effects of DPS and Support are less potent. This is CC role.

• Healing, works better as to relieve pressure on players and speed up recovery of players so that they can return back to full combat effectiviness.
  “Zhaitan Campaing” majority of mobs however deal spike damage with singular attacks, these attacks are best mitigated with dodging and blocking, healing is useless against this.
  (So healing makes no difference since mobs don’t create situation where they can affect the results, like DPS and DPS-support builds can. Use healing to make 0 results.)

• CC, basic idea is that you use them to control your foes, controlled foes cannot perform actions.
  “Zhaitan Campaing” mobs, anything below Champion are trash mobs with insignificant abilities. Champs and above have Unshakable, that in open world PvE scales up so much that CC is useless, while in dungeons it’s same problem of trash mobs below champion rank, since there are no other targets to use these skills on.
  (Because of the lack of any other target that requires stuns and the fact that you have to sacrifice something to get strong CC effects, mainly damage output, CC is pretty much useless in open world PvE, but has limited usefulness in dungeons, unlike DPS and DPS-support. Use CC to make no results.)

• DoT, literally burns through armor, but these require alot of time to deal the full damage.
  “Zhaitan Campaing” mobs use universal design of “High HP-Spike DMG-0 Armor”, as HP works as a buffer against conditions and the mobs have 0 armor, the most effective method to kill these mobs, is to use high powered Direct Damage builds, trying to use conditions cannot deal enough damage to match the Direct Damage output.
  (Since players can kill 0-armor-mobs faster with Direct Damage, conditions will never be able to dishout enough damage ticks to match them, unlike DPS and DPS-support. Use Conditions to make no results.)

• Boon manipulation, used to destroy, convert or steal enemy’s source of advantage, unfortunately these skills usually deal slightly less damage than damage oriented skills.
  “Zhaitan Campaing” mobs very rarely use boons, so it’s waste of utility or weapon slot, which could be used for another high damage oriented skill.
  (Since they don’t and skills with conversion/destruction/stealing deal less damage, unlike DPS and DPS-support. Use Boon manipulations to make no results.)

My suggestion is to bring out the variety to mobs in “Zhaitan Campaing” and end this eternal “you’re useless if you don’t use DPS or DPS-support builds”.

• Game will still be “Play how I want”, only that using any other build than DPS and DPS-support will have more impact on results, unlike what they do now. You’ll stop being useless if you want to help your buddies, to do that you have to sacrifice some dps or survivability.
• +*Group content* or Solo content, you can still complete them with any build you want to use.
• It should eliminate the issue of “SUPER EASY MODE” and +*bring GW2 to Easy difficulty*. Mobs will stop from being “Stand here and press 1 to kill”.+
• It will never make content impossible to do, you can still +use any build you wish. You can bash that heavy armor mob with full berserker and kill it eventually, tho conditions would finish it off slightly faster.+
• Also that it will make other builds more viable to use on every content. You can still play any build you want and even have party full of berserkers, but results will be different if you used other builds and party setups.
• If a good Tutorial is implemented, players can learn the combat mechanics and have situations to use them, rather than having the functions and never use them.

1. People will gravitate toward the most optimal build, and there will always be a most optimal build. Not much to be done about that. (Besides, I think you exaggerate how useless non-DPS roles are)

2. Old PvE content shouldn’t be worked on because that’s a waste of time compared to making new PvE content.

At issue is a matter of design philosophy. Those who are insistent on having a specific “role” are GOING to be disappointed.

The game is designed that for maximum effectiveness that you are expected to deal DPS, Support, AND control, depending on the situation you’re in. This has run into two issues…

1) Content that is so faceroll simple that only a small handful of people in any large zerg really need to provide anything beyond damage.

2) That BECAUSE of the expectation to provide all three roles in one character, there’s only one role that really increases substantially through gear, damage.

Andred.1087:

1. People will gravitate toward the most optimal build, and there will always be a most optimal build. Not much to be done about that. (Besides, I think you exaggerate how useless non-DPS roles are)

2. Old PvE content shouldn’t be worked on because that’s a waste of time compared to making new PvE content.

1. Yes, this suggestion won’t stop that, but atleast non-DPS builds can create results to match DPS builds, than what they do now in majority of “Zhaitan Campaing”.
I’m not exaggerating, I play and test many builds over time and I tend to sway into support role for majority of time.

2. Yes, I know, but hopefully at some point they are updated.