Guild Wars 2

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT
tl;dr: Pls make events’ requirements reasonably “achievable”

First, I just want to say Thank You, for the awesome game. I have been a long-standing player since the start of the game, and have enjoyed it so far. I do have some gripes, both personal and others shared by some in the community, but I seldom whine as I always believe that there’s no perfection in the world. Gw2 is not perfect, but it is perfect for the way I want to spend my free time. That being said, I would like to appeal to how you guys develop new and challenging contents.

Revamped Tequatl and new Wurm at Bloodtide
My biggest gripe on these world bosses is not that they are difficult but rather, the minimum requirement to defeat them is “very high”. I have participated in them, and they did require coordination and knowledge of the game. I have completed and killed Tequatl, and all I can say is that, the encounter is awesome.

So, what do I mean by “minimum requirement” is “very high”? Simply put, to defeat these world bosses, Anet mentioned that a minimum of 80 geared people are needed

Source: http://dulfy.net/2013/08/31/gw2-pax-anniversary-bash-coverage/

However, to ensure success, a full zone is a definite must. And oh, not only that, full zone of decently geared players who knows how to dodge, how to use all their skill at the right time, and to properly follow the instructions to the letter. Not to mention, there’s no room for failure (i.e. failing Battery defense in Tequatl even once, means defeat).

These events are open world, and correct me if I am wrong, open world means these events are accessible (and doable) to all players in the open world, no matter if they have a guild or not, guesting or not, as long as they are in the area and willing to spend the effort to learn the fight. These open world events prior to new Wurm and revamped Teq fit the bill quite nicely.

For example, in my server, if we don’t have enough people doing Shatterer or no one is handling those mortars, we face failure and defeat. However, we don’t need a full zone to defeat Shatterer, we just need a coordinated team for that. The same goes for Taidha, I haven’t seen 5 people defeat her, at least, not yet, and yet, for 10-15, she’s doable but can still fail (depending on randoms and how geared the others are), and 20+ gives more leeway for success. Fire Shaman is actually a good example too, assuming the players fighting him are not all Lv80, he does pose a good challenge.

Moving to Wurm and Teq, now these new world bosses, just doesn’t fit the bill of being open-word, mainly because:
a) A full zone is needed, which negatively impacts low pop server and also time-of-day participation
b) Fully geared players are needed, which negatively impacts starting players

To further reinforce the idea of what my gripe is:
If a group of 20 or so players are skilled enough to complete the content, then the event should be doable and not merely rely on 80+ players to dish out the necessary DPS to kill the boss.

Proposed solutions:
a) Merged PvE zone for all servers
No change for for WvW players!!! The overflow system is already in place so it wouldn’t be overly difficult. When players log in, the server they login doesn’t affect PvE, only the WvWvW affiliation. The PvE server can create dynamic overflows as it sees fit, and all players join the same zones. This will solve, or at least alleviate, lack of population to other servers.

To solve the issue of World Boss events, DEs can be synced across all Oflows (which Anet has done already as well with Scarlett Invasion, Teq, Wurm, and Marionette). Other non-meta DEs can be independently start/stop per oflow.

b) Live Up to your promises, and Make World Bosses Scale Better, Make them Reasonable
Ok, if that proposal above is too radical, too hard to implement, or maybe costs a lot to do, then a simpler solution is make the world bosses scale better.

I have already stated several examples above: Shatterer, Taidha, and maybe some other world bosses too. Make the “minimum” requirement a truly minimum one, make these “open” world bosses, a truly “open” one: accessible to both new and vet players.

Make the boss require coordination, strategy, timing, and preparation. Make the world boss scale in difficulty, as numbers of participants go up. Make this world boss impossible to solo, even with 5 players, but make it doable with 10 or 15 players (20 will be pushing it though, but still better than the current full-zone requirement).

Scaling World Bosses to meet a truly “minimum” requirement with needed coordination, strategy, and participation, will make these encounter better rather than a simple: full-zone, gear-check approach. Limits elitism too (i.e. you’re bads, get out of the zone). No need to tweak any server, both small and big communities can do the contents, it requires no hoops to complete (no guesting required).

Why did I say Anet should live up to their promises? Colin himself mentioned this:
“Events scale in difficulty, so the more—or less!—players who show up, the number of creatures spawning and their levels change, bosses become more or less powerful, and so on, to help make the experience fun, regardless of the number of players participating. You never have one-too-many people doing an event and making it trivially easy; any player can always just jump right in and help out and have a good time, since the game takes them into account in balancing the difficulty. This also means years after the game releases, if you’re in an area where the population isn’t super high, you can still do all of the content available in the game world (except for the very hard group events), because it can scale down to single-player difficulty. One of my great frustrations with some of the event systems developed in the past is that while I loved the content, if no one else was around, I simply could not play it later in the game’s life cycle because of the lack of players. This frustration is removed with our scaling system on normal events.”

Source: http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/dynamic-events-dev-journal-colin-johanson

The above quote is what I am wanting to happen again, and Anet is (or was) well aware of this situation, where low pop server can hamper a player’s access to content.

In summary: make World Bosses doable with “minimum requirement”, but not diminishing the need for coordination, strategy and active participation (i.e. no afk 11111).

If I have to choose, I’ll go for Anet living up with their promises. They have broken their promise about Ascended, and this “full zone” requirement is another. Players are already disgruntled with Anet’s direction making a full turn around and I am afraid that if Anet continue to do this sort of events, that it will turn away many of their fans.

For the community, if you support this, pls say so and +1 my post so that Anet will see it. I am not asking anything NEW (except for proposal 1) that will be game breaking, nor will it impact any current guild or server.

If you don’t support it, and have a better suggestion, pls share.
If you think I am wrong, let me know, and provide a constructive feedback.

However, if you’re just going to say “meh” or simply say “your suggestion is bads” (or similar remarks) without any recommendation , then I will just ignore it and will report that to moderator to make sure we sanitize the reply to be those that pertains to the topic and will not add unnecessary clutter to the discussion.

tl;dr: Pls make events’ requirements reasonably “achievable”

Definite support – and I expect you’ll see more support, since when people are still proposing alternatives for the ruined (new) tequatl. The wurm faces the same issues.

+1

Anet released the new content for the elite hardcore crowd. That means the achievements were geared towards them. But that doesn’t mean the Casual player can’t participate. Our groups are very open to help new players with Teq or the Wurm. We teach them what to do, and they end up succeeding. All achievements are “achievable”. What matters is individual and group skill.

Also, each server has their own PvE zones. Your suggestion for a shared map is bad. Because a map can only hold a finite amount of players, you create endless problems if you have 100,000 players trying to get into a map that hold only 150. Shared PvE zones would mean players from one server might realistically never play with their friends or guildies on the same popular map. If you want to play somewhere else, you can guest to that server. If the server maps are full, you have shared Overflows. The current system, while inconvenient at times, is the best option.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Anet released the new content for the elite hardcore crowd. That means the achievements were geared towards them. But that doesn’t mean the Casual player can’t participate. Our groups are very open to help new players with Teq or the Wurm. We teach them what to do, and they end up succeeding. All achievements are “achievable”. What matters is individual and group skill.

Also, each server has their own PvE zones. Your suggestion for a shared map is bad. Because a map can only hold a finite amount of players, you create endless problems if you have 100,000 players trying to get into a map that hold only 150. Shared PvE zones would mean players from one server might realistically never play with their friends or guildies on the same popular map. If you want to play somewhere else, you can guest to that server. If the server maps are full, you have shared Overflows. The current system, while inconvenient at times, is the best option.

I read about the Elite Hardcore, and that is why I point Anet back to their plan about making the game doable for everyone without the hoops [no matter how easy the hoops is like guesting and/or joining specialized guild]. I posted Colin’s own words, and that’s how I based my proposal. I also emphasize this:

20 Elite Hardcore players willing to do everything and anything they can do to complete the event [buffs, foods, summons, gear, practice, dedication]. This is what Colin mentioned, and I hold Colin to this.

As for the single PvE, I mentioned that overflow will still exist the way it is now. So at no one time will 100,000 players be playing at single overflow. The system exists now, Anet just need to improve it.

i dont think open world is supposed to mean easy, it just means its open to anyone to join and attempt. I think there is a place for teq and wurm, i also think there is a place for mari level difficulty events.

To be honest most other events in the game are a little too far on the easy side if you have the numbers. Many of the big events are just about getting a hit in before it dies, or standing around AAing.

I do think needing 80 players minimum isnt good, leads to overflow issues. I think there should be midrange difficulty content more often, and requiring fewer minimum players. After all groups of <80 people want something somewhat challenging/interesting as well.

phys.7689:

i dont think open world is supposed to mean easy, it just means its open to anyone to join and attempt. I think there is a place for teq and wurm, i also think there is a place for mari level difficulty events.

To be honest most other events in the game are a little too far on the easy side if you have the numbers. Many of the big events are just about getting a hit in before it dies, or standing around AAing.

I do think needing 80 players minimum isnt good, leads to overflow issues. I think there should be midrange difficulty content more often, and requiring fewer minimum players. After all groups of <80 people want something somewhat challenging/interesting as well.

I may have misword anything, but as far as I recall, I never mentioned nor want for an “easy” boss. I used examples such as minimum requirement being reasonable and achievable, that both “elite groups/guild” and “pug” can do, given the chance that these players spend the time and effort to learn and master the mechanics.

DeathMetal.8264:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Anet released the new content for the elite hardcore crowd. That means the achievements were geared towards them. But that doesn’t mean the Casual player can’t participate. Our groups are very open to help new players with Teq or the Wurm. We teach them what to do, and they end up succeeding. All achievements are “achievable”. What matters is individual and group skill.

Also, each server has their own PvE zones. Your suggestion for a shared map is bad. Because a map can only hold a finite amount of players, you create endless problems if you have 100,000 players trying to get into a map that hold only 150. Shared PvE zones would mean players from one server might realistically never play with their friends or guildies on the same popular map. If you want to play somewhere else, you can guest to that server. If the server maps are full, you have shared Overflows. The current system, while inconvenient at times, is the best option.

I read about the Elite Hardcore, and that is why I point Anet back to their plan about making the game doable for everyone without the hoops [no matter how easy the hoops is like guesting and/or joining specialized guild]. I posted Colin’s own words, and that’s how I based my proposal. I also emphasize this:

20 Elite Hardcore players willing to do everything and anything they can do to complete the event [buffs, foods, summons, gear, practice, dedication]. This is what Colin mentioned, and I hold Colin to this.

As for the single PvE, I mentioned that overflow will still exist the way it is now. So at no one time will 100,000 players be playing at single overflow. The system exists now, Anet just need to improve it.

its simply not possible to make one content everyone loves. The best you can hope for is a variety of choices. There are a lot of people, not just the elite, who cant be satisfied with events on the level of jormag or shatterter. I mean i like to tear through things easily and effeciently sometimes, but i also like challenges and interesting mechanics that arent the same everytime. I dont think anyone should expect all content to fit their paradigm.

I view “elite, hardcore” content in the same light I view dueling…I’m not particularly interested, but I don’t mind if it’s added to the game. In both cases, though, I’d MUCH rather them be added to hidden from view in instances rather that marring a beautifully crafted open world.

The root issue with open-world raid bosses will always boil down to the flaws with the Overflow system and timers. It makes the setup needlessly frustrating to coordinate (trying to funnel everybody into a single overflow) and the hours in between retries compounds the issue.

Being able to select the instance you’re going to enter would go a long way towards making these encounters feel less frustrating. It would also make setting up considerably easier. And theoretically, you wouldn’t need to have people sit in a single area doing nothing, as they’d simply be able to jump back into the selected instance closer to spawn time.

There’s another thread calling for a combination of making the bosses in question somewhat more open world friendly, (100+ people fully geared with consumable is NOT friendly) while adding instanced modes for them that require significantly more coordination. Possibly making them guild missions instead of flat instances (though I see making them like dungeons, but for ~50 people a very do-able thing)

As an example of the hardcore events being doable, Deso and BG servers have defeated the new Mega Wurm. TTS (which is serverless due to our members being from all over) came close. The mechanics are there. People just need to learn them, and at the same time, know how to play as a group.

Everything in this game, no matter how difficult, can be completed. Just some things take a lot longer.

stale.9785:

There’s another thread calling for a combination of making the bosses in question somewhat more open world friendly, (100+ people fully geared with consumable is NOT friendly) while adding instanced modes for them that require significantly more coordination. Possibly making them guild missions instead of flat instances (though I see making them like dungeons, but for ~50 people a very do-able thing)

The new Wurm wasn’t meant to be friendly…

Tequatl and the worm are designed to be difficult to complete and are targeted for hardcore players. Why shouldn’t those guys get something to do in the game as well? Not everything in the game is supposed to be for everyone, but there should be something for everyone. And those event accomplish exactly this, while not excluding players.

I don’t approve of the ‘one-world/one-server’ idea. You will never know who you will end up playing with…for anything. Overflows throw you in with different people all the time for the more-popular-at-the-time events. I’d hate to see that happen for everything. Some of us do have a bit of server pride, and not just for WvW.

As for large-scale events? I’m not sure what the solution is, but I will always be an advocate for more choice. I enjoy the Marionette, which pretty much requires 125 people, even if we don’t succeed each time. I’d hate for it to be dumbed-down. The easier they become, the less sense of accomplishment.

I agree that not all contents are for everyone, one of the developers have mentioned that already. I also agree that certain events are made more harder, and I have no problems with that.

However, what I am proposing for, at least my personal favorite, is that an event should scale, with minimum players in mind. Colin have mentioned it already, and I have quoted his own words, and he knows the issue about it.

I do not want easy boss, nor do I want to take away the fun from large guild nor take away the challenge from the most dedicated players. However, what I would like to see is a boss that scales in difficulty based on the number of players, with minimum requirements that are achievable across all time zones, across all servers.

Even the most hard core elite players/guild, can’t do Teq in all his spawn time because even the most hard core guild can’t muster the numbers needed to kill him.

I welcome extremely hard content, however, I’m not interested fighting with the Overflow system or getting stuck with random people who have no idea what they have to do.
Also, the drops are so extremely disappointing that there’s almost no motivation to do these events. If each Wurm kill gave you 1 Token and you could trade 10 for a unique skin, that would be great.

I don’t object to hard or “elite” content. I do believe it should be instanced and in an environment that the user can control.

Make Teq and the Wurm instanced – create instances for each of the other meta bosses. Increase the difficulty of the encounters, have them reward karma, gold, items and a chance at new skins. (Use it as a chance to bring back GW1 skins as rewards, perhaps. Always looking for a chance to sneak some horizontal progression in there.)

Leave the bosses as they exist in the open world, bring Teq closer to it’s previous state, and make the wurm something closer to the current world bosses.

Everybody wins. Guilds and organized groups get hard content, with rewards for being coordinated. Open world gets bosses that don’t require map saturation and allow for people who aren’t optimized/organized. I fail to see how this is a bad approach.

Just my $0.02