Guild Wars 2

So there are a few people complaining about getting unfairly kicked in dungeons and I am pretty sure things like that happen more often then we’d like to think so I am just going to submit this idea.

Basically, when you go to kick someone you get a popup window asking to select a reason from a dropdown window. Once you give that reason, the vote kick will pop up stating the reason beside the player to be kicked. Once the player receives enough votes, they are kicked and receive mail stating who kicked them for the reason they specified.

At that point the player has the option to report the player who initiated the kick for “kick abuse” if they feel that they were booted out of the dungeon for an illegitimate reason.

Discuss. :P

What stops you from reporting the player that kicked you in the current system?
Also, what makes you think that the person who is kicking, will pick the honest reason?

Belzebu.3912:

What stops you from reporting the player that kicked you in the current system?
Also, what makes you think that the person who is kicking, will pick the honest reason?

1.) Because there is no indication to the kicked player as to who kicked them. Most of the time the player’s chats during the instance are removed only reinforcing the fact there is no indication to the who kicked and why.

2.) I am actually counting on it because otherwise the player will get suspended (or w/e anet decides should be the punishment).

100% support, just add the same rules as the current report system, fraudulent reports are against the rules and can be punished. That would help avoid some false kick abuse reports. (I don’t think many people who get kicked are happy about it, so there would need to be a deterrent from just auto reporting when kicked)

The current system of wiping your chat so you couldn’t even have a chance at reporting for abuse is just silly. Really I see no reason for the chat to be cleared, though it is true some players abusing the current system are doing so with others on a voip program so they wouldn’t leave any chat in the log anyway. This suggestion would solve that issue so I’m 100% for it!

While I am all for this, it should be noted I think the kicked from party thing is actually alot less widespread then it looks on the forums. It’s true not everyone who gets kicked for no reason will come post; it’s also true that even fewer runs that are completed with no issues will be posted here.

A ratio of how many complete runs with pugs/lfg system vs how many kicks would be interesting to see.

I don’t agree with this suggestion.

It’s everyone’s choice to decide who they want to play with, and that’s why you have kick option. Also if 2 other persons agree with you, it legitimizes it. If they don’t, then you can always leave of course.

I already think it sort of annoying when you create a party that you do not really have control over it anymore as it was before, but I understand some people were abusing it to scam players so I agreed with that move to some extend and even to have 50% of the party agree on kicks, but I’ll never agree with punishing player for deciding who they want to make a party with.

Usually, people don’t get kick for no reason.

Lady Minuit.3186:

I don’t agree with this suggestion.

It’s everyone’s choice to decide who they want to play with, and that’s why you have kick option. Also if 2 other persons agree with you, it legitimizes it. If they don’t, then you can always leave of course.

I already think it sort of annoying when you create a party that you do not really have control over it anymore as it was before, but I understand some people were abusing it to scam players so I agreed with that move to some extend and even to have 50% of the party agree on kicks, but I’ll never agree with punishing player for deciding who they want to make a party with.

Usually, people don’t get kick for no reason.

It’s everyone’s choice who they decide to play with, that’s true… But joining someones party then kicking them out? How do you explain that? They made the choice to join that persons party, then kick him or her?

Just because someone else agrees with you, does not mean it’s legit. See this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-Party-Kicking-Mechanic-is-Unfair/first

The people complaining about being kicked that want a system like this are not being kicked for valid reasons, they are being kicked by players who are abusing the current group system.

Is I said befor, the amount of completed runs with out issue probably exceeds the amount of kick/abused runs. However if you search the forums it’s clearly obvious people are being kicked for no valid reason.

About a year or two ago, I suggested something like this, but I’ve reconsidered.

• This would delay party reformation for legit kicks, without slowing down griefers much.
• The game now tells you who initiated the kick and who seconded it.
• You still need to take screen shots and create a support ticket to report this sort of abuse.

So, even though there’s nothing objectionable about such a system, I’d prefer to see other changes to party/lfg instead of this.

I’m struggling to the see the benefit of your suggestion, or perhaps I’ve got the wrong end of the stick.

I don’t see how a selection box containing things like “AFK”, “Not Fulfilling Objectives” for example, is going to increase the validity of the reasoning why somebody was kicked.

Somebody who abuses the kick-system is still going to choose one of the allowed options. It won’t necessarily give the kicked member a good understanding of what happened either as kicking is often subjective, and so is a lot of the terminology behind it.

One person’s AFK is different to another’s- I’ve seen plenty of people being accused of being AFK just because they’re generally doing less damage, whereas to me an AFK person is actually not actively playing the game.

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Because there is no indication to the kicked player as to who kicked them. Most of the time the player’s chats during the instance are removed only reinforcing the fact there is no indication to the who kicked and why.

doesn’t it show who kicks who now? it’s a system message so it doesnt get cleared when you are kicked. You can report by right click the name there.

Kicking is rarely an actionable offense. People can kick from a party for all sorts of legitimate reasons (at least according to the rules, whatever you may think morally), and many of those aren’t easy/possible to tell from the game logs. Anet is usually only only going to take action against someone with a confirmable record of griefing by kicking.

Maybe I’m a bit naive, but I can’t understand why Anet can’t simply stealth police this type of thing using meta data that they undoubtedly capture in the game.

When a player initiates a kick the system should capture that data. Players that have the highest kick initiation rates should be investigated to determine if they are exhibiting undesired behavior. I’d be willing to bet there are players that deviate from a statistical norm for the game.

These threads persist because of continued player frustration around being kicked for bad reasons. I for one tend to avoid dungeons and fractals because you just never know if you’re going to run into someone who get’s kick happy at the instant something isn’t perfectly to their liking. Anet should be applauded that they have made improvements, but I for one would have more comfort if I knew there were reviews going on using the intelligence and data that should be readily available to them.

NTDK.4897:

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Because there is no indication to the kicked player as to who kicked them. Most of the time the player’s chats during the instance are removed only reinforcing the fact there is no indication to the who kicked and why.

doesn’t it show who kicks who now? it’s a system message so it doesnt get cleared when you are kicked. You can report by right click the name there.

Of course it does show votes now. The OP should do some research.

Personally I don’t care about reason of a kick because it changes absolutely nothing. Someone votes for kick for whatever, the others accept or not. Trust me, people won’t bother reading it.

They have reasons in WoW. I read where people troll parties by selecting the healer and giving the reason to kick as, low dps. The group then kicks their healer for low dps.

In other words, people don’t comprehend what they are reading. They see a kick appear for reason X and just kick. Having stated reasons doesn’t stop people from joining in on a kick. They’ll just do it anyway.

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Because there is no indication to the kicked player as to who kicked them. Most of the time the player’s chats during the instance are removed only reinforcing the fact there is no indication to the who kicked and why.

Yes there are indication, the chat is cleared, the message of who kicked and the voters doesn’t.

yolo swaggins.2570:

2.) I am actually counting on it because otherwise the player will get suspended (or w/e anet decides should be the punishment).

Can you imagine how much manual verification ANet devs need to do to check if each reason to kick is actually true, they need to check chat and actions of the kicked and kicker for every party kick report they get, there is no way to automate this … yet.

To clear up this discussion a little bit:

- Yes I havn’t done any dungeons in a while because I keep getting partied with random elitists that keep ruining the experience for me. So if it tells you who kicked then that update is completely new to me.

- I don’t know what makes you guys think that this function is going to have petty reasons like “low DPS” and “afk”. Blizzard designed their kick reasons around raiders. If anet was going to do this they would most likely make reasons based off the ToS so it’ll be more like “Verbal Abuse” and “Logged Off/Client Crash”.

- I am starting to think you guys are not really thinking about the impact this will do for random kicks. The players are going to kick for stupid reasons, but if they kick a player for one of the reasons provided when the kicked player never did it, then hey, the kicker just abused the kick system. Things like account logs for the party, chat, lfg postings and the timestamps on all of them could help determine who was wrong if a Kick Abuse report was made. But if people get punished for making BS kicks, people will stop making BS kicks.

- And I doubt it is going to be an issue to add onto their workload because Arenanet’s Support is the best i’ve ever seen in any company ever. The most this suggestion would do is add a new area of reports. Kickers will have options to kick with, but kickees will only need a single button, “Report Kick Abuse”. The report will most likely send those few things I’ve described (and then some) in the 3rd point to support because that’s really all you need to determine who did what and why. They will review it just like any other report. I doubt that applying this to the kick function would require gigantic amounts of verification because it’d be no different from what they’ve been doing.

And if there is a record of reported kicks without a legitimate reason, its still considered kick abuse.

there no necessary for it.
the reason by kicking:
1) not communicate with other players and keep doing their own way
2) join the party by not reading the detail. (joined zerker party with low dps. ) (newb joined a exp party)
3) afk for long
4) aggressive with other players.

yolo swaggins.2570:

I don’t know what makes you guys think that this function is going to have petty reasons like “low DPS” and “afk”. Blizzard designed their kick reasons around raiders. If anet was going to do this they would most likely make reasons based off the ToS so it’ll be more like “Verbal Abuse” and “Logged Off/Client Crash”. . Snip

When I was giving the example of a healer being kicked for low dps, I was using that as an example of how people don’t read and comprehend the reasons for kicking someone else (sort of how you didn’t read and comprehend the point of my post). Not as a suggestion for one of the reasons to put in this game. It was to highlight the fact that if a kick is put up, the reasons stated won’t matter to a lot of people. They will kick anyway, so putting a reason won’t stop others from kicking.

Since people can lie on a kick reason statement, it won’t help ANet if there is a dispute. They could always claim the reason was a dispute and was in voice chat.

just make the person who starts the party the party LEADER who cannot be kicked (but if they leave then they are no longer the leader)

I would be ok with this if one of the option is: – He’s a Ranger

spiritus.7983:

I would be ok with this if one of the option is: – He’s a Ranger

you are the problem we need to fix…..in gw2 every1 can play every role and nobody is excluded from a party based on a profession

the only solution is to make the party leader in total control

“kicked for being a casual”

“kicked for being trash”
:D

whats wrong with ranger????
u said that because you never played ranger before.
players shouldnt be kick by their profession.

spiritus.7983:

I would be ok with this if one of the option is: – He’s a Ranger

Duke Nukem.6783:

spiritus.7983:

I would be ok with this if one of the option is: – He’s a Ranger

you are the problem we need to fix…..in gw2 every1 can play every role and nobody is excluded from a party based on a profession

the only solution is to make the party leader in total control

that won’t work either, because people will invite folks, kick them, and then sell the spaces (not a lot of folks will do this, just enough)

No system is perfect. The one we have now is pretty good, except for some griefers (who should be dealt with anyhow) and the occasional accident. Forcing everyone else to give a reason for kicking slows everyone else down, without offering a commensurate benefit.

ANet already has plenty of systems that are setup to deal with the more extreme cases and the community generally complains about the inconvenience:

• anti-mail flooding makes it harder for guild leaders to send notices to e.g. all members who haven’t logged in 3 months
• anti-spamming prevents leaders from posting instructions/waypoints for drytop, etc
• anti-RMT has generated a lot of complaints that we can see in active threads

tl;dr this would be another mechanic that inconveniences everyone in order to prevent a problem caused by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It might be more sensible to focus attention on that tiny fraction.

JUN YANG.4328:

there no necessary for it.
the reason by kicking:
1) not communicate with other players and keep doing their own way
2) join the party by not reading the detail. (joined zerker party with low dps. ) (newb joined a exp party)
3) afk for long
4) aggressive with other players.

There is also:
1.) Selling paths (which can easily turned into a scam)
2.) Because not zerker (every other situation)
3.) Because not using meta
4.) Using players to get to a certain point and then kicking them so friends can finish for the reward.
5.) Because nobody is carrying the kicker

This along with Just a flesh wound’s WoW example and anything related are really stupid reasons to kick but they happen regardless. This suggestion deters it and helps players to be less of a kitten.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

When I was giving the example of a healer being kicked for low dps, I was using that as an example of how people don’t read and comprehend the reasons for kicking someone else (sort of how you didn’t read and comprehend the point of my post). Not as a suggestion for one of the reasons to put in this game. It was to highlight the fact that if a kick is put up, the reasons stated won’t matter to a lot of people. They will kick anyway, so putting a reason won’t stop others from kicking.

Since people can lie on a kick reason statement, it won’t help ANet if there is a dispute. They could always claim the reason was a dispute and was in voice chat.

Like how you completely didn’t read my post when I said that it doesn’t matter what they fail to read and kick for? That regardless of how braindead they are its still abuse and that anet would most likely do something about it? The part that really gets anything done with this suggestion is when the player who was kicked decided to report kick abuse. Because simply kicking won’t compile a report.

That kind of positive punishment will eventually sink in and people will start being more cautious about how they go about using kick.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr this would be another mechanic that inconveniences everyone in order to prevent a problem caused by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It might be more sensible to focus attention on that tiny fraction.

I agreed with alot of your comment until the tl;dr. First off, it only inconveniences those prone to kicking (which at some point they’ve kicked for stupid reasons and griefed a player), which is the target group for this suggestion. Even if they are a tiny fraction, they cause enough of an impact that “wrongly kicked” threads are common meaning that there is an obvious problem and it is not being fixed. And if such a small percentage is kittening this many people off, then yes, concentrate on them.

The way reports are done in gw2, this suggestion can aid those who use it properly because if the kicked player was in the wrong, not only will anet see it in the logs but the player will also get hit with report abuse.

Its like the police. They stop me from driving as fast as I want but they also stop me from killing people and myself with my car. 5 seconds of inconvenience for upheaval of a deep-rooted 2-year problem sounds like a good deal to me. But that’s just me.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr this would be another mechanic that inconveniences everyone in order to prevent a problem caused by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It might be more sensible to focus attention on that tiny fraction.

yolo swaggins.2570:

I agreed with alot of your comment until the tl;dr. First off, it only inconveniences those prone to kicking (which at some point they’ve kicked for stupid reasons and griefed a player), which is the target group for this suggestion. Even if they are a tiny fraction, they cause enough of an impact that “wrongly kicked” threads are common meaning that there is an obvious problem and it is not being fixed. And if such a small percentage is kittening this many people off, then yes, concentrate on them.

The way reports are done in gw2, this suggestion can aid those who use it properly because if the kicked player was in the wrong, not only will anet see it in the logs but the player will also get hit with report abuse.

Its like the police. They stop me from driving as fast as I want but they also stop me from killing people and myself with my car. 5 seconds of inconvenience for upheaval of a deep-rooted 2-year problem sounds like a good deal to me. But that’s just me.

I fear I might have expressed my point poorly then; the tl-dr matches the rest of the post.

The proposed system inconveniences anyone who has a friend that runs off due to RL, but forgets to sign off or drop the party. It inconveniences people who invite their alternate accounts to the party. So it will inconvenience legit players.

That’s why I made the specific comparisons to other existing systems that are also designed to throttle bad behavior and yet also inconvenience legit players. All such mechanics are designed to punish those with bad intentions, but they also have predictable (and unanticipated) negative effects on everyone else, too.

However, there are some huge differences between party kicking and the other issues these mechanics are designed to address.

• Spamming etc would be done on a massive scale, if not for throttling; party kicks are done on a tiny scale.
• Any individual spam etc has a big impact on the entire community, whereas party kicking only affects a maximum of two people at a time.
• There aren’t many good tools for dealing with spamming et al; throttling is very effective against them. In contrast, every anti-illegit-kick mechanic only handles a portion of the issue.

I don’t mean to minimize the issue to those getting kicked, especially to those who are looking for a fifth to complete a long run or even those selling paths. It’s a big deal to those individuals, the kind of thing dispiriting enough to reduce overall enjoyment of the game.

That’s why I suggested (again, in the tl-dr) that ANet should spend resources to deal with it, that don’t affect the kicking mechanic. Since the number of people doing this is small, I think it’s far better that ANet put more effort into punishing those who abuse it. There would be far less griefing and instance-thieving if folks knew there were near-immediate and substantial consequences.

tl;dr this would be another mechanic that inconveniences everyone in order to prevent a problem caused by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It would be more sensible to focus resources on that tiny fraction.

Absolutely not. If someone is REALLY being abusive, use the report feature. Not knowing what to do, being casual, being elitist, being they wrong class, the wrong gear, the wrong level, not enough power/ap are NOT reasons Anet support should be getting “abuse” spam cloging up their tickets.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the GM have better things to do with their time then going over “I was grief kicked because I didn’t have 5k AP” tickets.