Guild Wars 2

much to my surprise, you convinced me… I actually think removing it could improve the experience

Even though I hardly use consumables I would rather not get rid of them. It doesn’t happen often because I mainly forget about them, but sometimes after I was shamefully defeated for whatever reason, I like to bite in a cookie and try it again.

So in a sense you might be able to lower the difficulty, but it comes at a price for a limited time.

They are a sort of restricted boons that last longer.

Thanks @proviticus.4183. I think it would as well.

I like the added customizability of F&N buffs; I find that I use different foods situationally depending on an anticipated encounter, and it’s nice using one that has a radius so I can support others in the group.

I also really like the Cooking discipline; it is the most realistic one I’ve found so far, and it is a great deal of fun to do. I find that I’m spurred to explore more just to find ingredients, so it gives great potential to enhance gameplay. But, as a luxury discipline, it takes more money and effort to do it, so it’s fair that it produces some consumables that are desirable for others to be marketable. However, the fact that F&N is not required is a fair compromise away from the “hard core requirement” to always have it.

My main problem, as with most of the crafting, is that people level up so quickly that the midrange items just aren’t really useful in themselves if you want to make money, so there is pressure to barrel through to max level if moneymaking is your goal.

Zalyn.9534:

I like the added customizability of F&N buffs; I find that I use different foods situationally depending on an anticipated encounter, and it’s nice using one that has a radius so I can support others in the group.

I also really like the Cooking discipline; it is the most realistic one I’ve found so far, and it is a great deal of fun to do. I find that I’m spurred to explore more just to find ingredients, so it gives great potential to enhance gameplay. But, as a luxury discipline, it takes more money and effort to do it, so it’s fair that it produces some consumables that are desirable for others to be marketable. However, the fact that F&N is not required is a fair compromise away from the “hard core requirement” to always have it.

My main problem, as with most of the crafting, is that people level up so quickly that the midrange items just aren’t really useful in themselves if you want to make money, so there is pressure to barrel through to max level if moneymaking is your goal.

But -
-Is it really adding to your overall experience?
-Does it make things too easy?
-Do I always use it? Why?
-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?
-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?
-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

I like the customization they offer.

In terms of making content “easy”, the vast majority of the content is already easy, with or without them. If we are going to remove anything that makes it “easier” then are we also going to remove ascended gear, superior runes and sigils? Most of which is not actually needed to complete the content and is instead used to do it more efficiently?

In terms of “balance” with regards to wvw. Well unless you are going to make it like spvp and remove gear disparity altogether, i’m unsure as to the point really. Moreover, if someone has not taken the opportunity to utilize them, well it’s really their fault and no one elses.

In terms of “balance” from a design perspective. I’d rather Anet learned how to balance them instead of removing them altogether.

sure, why don’t we dumb the game down even more. how about removing traits also?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Increases balance in WvW.
(Since F&N isn’t a requirement not every body uses it. For example, you come across a player who is using F&N while you aren’t. Your defeat usually is quick and painless.)

If you’re losing 1v1 to a player using food and you’re not, it’s not because of the food. That player obviously cares about maximizing his performance while you obviously don’t, which probably carries over to other aspects of your gameplay.

I know it wasn’t directed at me, still all the same.

But -
-Is it really adding to your overall experience?

Yes

-Does it make things too easy?

No

-Do I always use it? Why?

No

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?

I don’t 1v1

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?

I have lots from this and that, but if then craft myself.

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

No, I don’t really check, but if the topic comes up I offer if anyone wants.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I don’t think it trivializes content, rather makes it too easy. I know it’s great for other things than end-game, like making Queensdale even easier.

I don’t think it takes much skill to double click an item either, thus, doesn’t enhance my game. If there was, say, a button that when pressed by me electrified the floor and stunned the enemy, I find that more enticing than double-clicking a item. That is content, not food.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I don’t think it trivializes content, rather makes it too easy. I know it’s great for other things than end-game, like making Queensdale even easier.

I don’t think it takes much skill to double click an item either, thus, doesn’t enhance my game. If there was, say, a button that when pressed by me electrified the floor and stunned the enemy, I find that more enticing than double-clicking a item. That is content, not food.

Please tell me how this response is at all relevant to my reasoning for wanting to keep nourishment in the game for leveling reasons. Basically all you’re saying is that trivializing content =/= making content easier. But then you contradict that later on. What.

mcarswell.3768:

sure, why don’t we dumb the game down even more. how about removing traits also?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Increases balance in WvW.
(Since F&N isn’t a requirement not every body uses it. For example, you come across a player who is using F&N while you aren’t. Your defeat usually is quick and painless.)

If you’re losing 1v1 to a player using food and you’re not, it’s not because of the food. That player obviously cares about maximizing his performance while you obviously don’t, which probably carries over to other aspects of your gameplay.

Skill is a major factor, I 100% agree.

Let’s delve deeper. If there was a 1v1 between two players, same class, same build, equal experience; but one uses F&N. We both agree that the F&N user would win, correct? So does double clicking an item makes that player better? I don’t feel that is very skillful.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I don’t think it trivializes content, rather makes it too easy. I know it’s great for other things than end-game, like making Queensdale even easier.

I don’t think it takes much skill to double click an item either, thus, doesn’t enhance my game. If there was, say, a button that when pressed by me electrified the floor and stunned the enemy, I find that more enticing than double-clicking a item. That is content, not food.

Please tell me how this response is at all relevant to my reasoning for wanting to keep nourishment in the game for leveling reasons. Basically all you’re saying is that trivializing content =/= making content easier. But then you contradict that later on. What.

Sorry for the poor reply.

Sure, F&N is helpful for leveling up. I offered a different solution at the end of my original post about allowing only <80 characters to use. Would you agree with that?

I’m very aware that mine is not a popular position, but I would prefer the game had little to no stats that are not inherent to one’s character. I’d lose stats on gear, and food/nourishment. I’m also aware that removing “extra” stats would kill the MMO genre, which seems to be at its core about collecting such crap.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I agree. Not sure why this would be viewed as a good idea unless the OP would also like them to remove all stats from gear entirely because that’s essentially what his logic requires when taken a step further. If you want to do that to improve the game remove all stats because stats give an artificial boost to only certain players who have them so why not, it would make the game all about skins 100% and people wouldn’t need stats on gear to progress. While we’re at it remove all sigils, boons, and runes. Who needs them right? They are just in the way and only causes problems for the players who can’t afford them, do people need to make them or buy them? Are they making them to make the game easier? Why have sigils/runes/stats on gear at all? Will it improve the game without them?

The next logical step you see in the line of reasoning.

UnitedChaos.8364:

(…)
Skill is a major factor, I 100% agree.

Let’s delve deeper. If there was a 1v1 between two players, same class, same build, equal experience; but one uses F&N. We both agree that the F&N user would win, correct? So does double clicking an item makes that player better? I don’t feel that is very skillful.

So there are these two titans, both equally skilled, fighting for two hours already, no one can win. Well, one get’s tired because he did not have that energy drink that gives you wings – the other one wins.

Was this thread intended for the PvP section?

UnitedChaos.8364:

Let’s delve deeper. If there was a 1v1 between two players, same class, same build, equal experience; but one uses F&N. We both agree that the F&N user would win, correct? So does double clicking an item makes that player better? I don’t feel that is very skillful.

So customization options should be decreased simply because someone cba to use the F&N available to them and as such that have a statistical deficiency against someone who has bothered?

In the same situation the guy with ascended will have a statistical edge over the guy with exo, or the guy with exo will have one over the guy with rares. Or the level 80 over the level 70. Now unless we are going to remove gear and levels as a factor in wvw and make it like spvp, then the idea of removing F&N is somewhat odd.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I don’t think it trivializes content, rather makes it too easy. I know it’s great for other things than end-game, like making Queensdale even easier.

I don’t think it takes much skill to double click an item either, thus, doesn’t enhance my game. If there was, say, a button that when pressed by me electrified the floor and stunned the enemy, I find that more enticing than double-clicking a item. That is content, not food.

Please tell me how this response is at all relevant to my reasoning for wanting to keep nourishment in the game for leveling reasons. Basically all you’re saying is that trivializing content =/= making content easier. But then you contradict that later on. What.

Sorry for the poor reply.

Sure, F&N is helpful for leveling up. I offered a different solution at the end of my original post about allowing only <80 characters to use. Would you agree with that?

Sorry I don’t. I could get behind a reworking of these consumables (perhaps if their buffs are NOT scaled in low level combat they probably ought to be) but I can’t get behind saying that all level 80 food should just be nixed altogether.

My dragonfly starcakes are for RP purposes too.

Fenrir.3609:

I like the customization they offer.

In terms of making content “easy”, the vast majority of the content is already easy, with or without them. If we are going to remove anything that makes it “easier” then are we also going to remove ascended gear, superior runes and sigils? Most of which is not actually needed to complete the content and is instead used to do it more efficiently?

In terms of “balance” with regards to wvw. Well unless you are going to make it like spvp and remove gear disparity altogether, i’m unsure as to the point really. Moreover, if someone has not taken the opportunity to utilize them, well it’s really their fault and no one elses.

In terms of “balance” from a design perspective. I’d rather Anet learned how to balance them instead of removing them altogether.

I agree with Fenrir. The point about WvW is excellent, and I will go further and make the unstated point that these disparities SHOULD exist in WvW. It is what separates WvW from sPvP and makes having both game modes such a great compromise to the pvp community. There are many players who want a pvp environment where they DO benefit from their gear, etc.

Not to minimize OP’s point (it is certainly a valid idea and worth consideration), but I can’t help but feel that it boils down to “some people can’t be bothered to always use consumables and why should they be punished?” Well, I would just point out that many, many people (most, even?) can’t be bothered to adjust their traits or even spend the points, and I’m sure most people can’t be bothered to slot runes and insignias or upgrade their 30 lvls-too-old gear. The huge disparities these things create are no different. Each player decides for themselves how efficiently to play and what is enjoyable. Personally, I only use food when I think of it, and only for the extra xp. But I aspire to use it correctly if and when I come across difficult content. For me, the added complexity is added fun potential.

One more thing: If people are concerned that consumables are “required” in the sense that groups won’t accept them otherwise, please find other groups or make your own group. Time and time again I find that there are more than enough like-minded players for the more casual crowd.

tigirius.9014:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I agree. Not sure why this would be viewed as a good idea unless the OP would also like them to remove all stats from gear entirely because that’s essentially what his logic requires when taken a step further. If you want to do that to improve the game remove all stats because stats give an artificial boost to only certain players who have them so why not, it would make the game all about skins 100% and people wouldn’t need stats on gear to progress. While we’re at it remove all sigils, boons, and runes. Who needs them right? They are just in the way and only causes problems for the players who can’t afford them, do people need to make them or buy them? Are they making them to make the game easier? Why have sigils/runes/stats on gear at all? Will it improve the game without them?

The next logical step you see in the line of reasoning.

Understandable.

I guess I just feel forced to use it, rather than want to; and this feeling doesn’t sit well with me. What may seem like a strategical use of items and timing to me feels just like “kill faster with food”.

I do think that the food and potion design could be significantly improved.

If it were my call, potions would only be of the “slayer” variety and would come with a variety of “offsets” (due to those caustic chemicals, don’t ya know?).

An example would be:
1. Vapid Potion of Undead Slaying
a. +5% Damage to Undead
b. +5% Defense Against Undead
c. -10% Endurance Regeneration

or

2. Limp Potion of Undead Slaying
a. +5% Damage to Undead
b. +5% Defense Against Undead
c. -10% Combat Movement Speed

Instead of changing the % with each tier, you would uncover different offsets allowing you to customize your potion usage based on your spec.

Food should provide no direct damage buffs but should instead be based around increasing Karma, Gold, Magic Find and granting random Boons and providing resistances to specific conditions.

Potions and Food should keep their Exp boosts.

mtpelion.4562:

I do think that the food and potion design could be significantly improved.

If it were my call, potions would only be of the “slayer” variety and would come with a variety of “offsets” (due to those caustic chemicals, don’t ya know?).

An example would be:
1. Powerful Potion of Vapid Undead Slaying
a. +5% Damage to Undead
b. +5% Defense Against Undead
c. -10% Endurance Regeneration

or

2. Powerful Potion of Limp Undead Slaying
a. +5% Damage to Undead
b. +5% Defense Against Undead
c. -10% Combat Movement Speed

Instead of changing the % with each tier, you would uncover different offsets allowing you to customize your potion usage based on your spec.

Food should provide no direct damage buffs but should instead be based around increasing Karma, Gold, Magic Find and granting random Boons and providing resistances to specific conditions.

Potions and Food should keep their Exp boosts.

This is a great alternative!

This is why I created this topic.

But it seems I have merely offended half of the topic participants, ha.

I think you would want to be careful not to create too many “niche” consumables. In a sense that the offsets might punish certain playstyles more than others.

I’m sure some people would like to play around with that and create new “metas” for their profession.

I light of the OP I would think that this would be a lot harder to balance though (granting random boons etc).

This is something I’ve been thinking about recently as well. At one point, before launch, Arena Net said they didn’t like the idea of people having to spend time preparing to have fun, when they could be having fun.

Stopping by the crafting station or TP to make sure you are stocked up, adds nothing to the game but a little bit of constant tedium. It doesn’t add any depth or difficulty. Neither does having to remember to open up your inventory periodically and click on a consumable to stay optimal.

I don’t expect t Arena Net will remove them, however, as cons are tied into the crafting system, and Arena Net keeps making stabs at trying to make crafting worthwhile.

Gibson.4036:

This is something I’ve been thinking about recently as well. At one point, before launch, Arena Net said they didn’t like the idea of people having to spend time preparing to have fun, when they could be having fun.

Stopping by the crafting station or TP to make sure you are stocked up, adds nothing to the game but a little bit of constant tedium. It doesn’t add any depth or difficulty. Neither does having to remember to open up your inventory periodically and click on a consumable to stay optimal.

I don’t expect t Arena Net will remove them, however, as cons are tied into the crafting system, and Arena Net keeps making stabs at trying to make crafting worthwhile.

Fantastic! I’m not alone!

In this thread OP wishes to change the game because " he feels forced" to use something he doesn’t like.
Emphasis on “he feels”. That’s your problem, not the game’s.

N&F as you call it is necessary to provide another layer of improving and making your character unique. You use it to get better at what you want to do.

Your argument that it “trivializes” and “makes the game too easy” doesn’t really hold up at all because the same could be said about almost anything in the game:

-Waypoints make things easier and trivialize content.
-Armor pieces make things easier and trivialize content – let’s remove helms then.
-Weapons make things easier and trivialize content – let’s cut their damage in half and restrict players to one weapon set. That would certainly make things tougher.
-Runes and sigils make things easier and trivialize content – let’s remove them.

Hell – let’s cut players stats while we’re at it because why not.

See where this is going? By your logic anything that helps players progress could be held to the same standard as the F&N you’re so desperate to remove.

To conclude – a strong no to your proposal.

Rouven.7409:

I think you would want to be careful not to create too many “niche” consumables. In a sense that the offsets might punish certain playstyles more than others.

I’m sure some people would like to play around with that and create new “metas” for their profession.

I light of the OP I would think that this would be a lot harder to balance though (granting random boons etc).

I totally agree that this would be too hard balance. Interesting idea though.

Harper.4173:

In this thread OP wishes to change the game because " he feels forced" to use something he doesn’t like.
Emphasis on “he feels”. That’s your problem, not the game’s.

N&F as you call it is necessary to provide another layer of improving and making your character unique. You use it to get better at what you want to do.

Your argument that it “trivializes” and “makes the game too easy” doesn’t really hold up at all because the same could be said about almost anything in the game:

-Waypoints make things easier and trivialize content.
-Armor pieces make things easier and trivialize content – let’s remove helms then.
-Weapons make things easier and trivialize content – let’s cut their damage in half and restrict players to one weapon set. That would certainly make things tougher.
-Runes and sigils make things easier and trivialize content – let’s remove them.

Hell – let’s cut players stats while we’re at it because why not.

See where this is going? By your logic anything that helps players progress could be held to the same standard as the F&N you’re so desperate to remove.

To conclude – a strong no to your proposal.

Sorry to have offended you by having an opinion.

Gibson.4036:

This is something I’ve been thinking about recently as well. At one point, before launch, Arena Net said they didn’t like the idea of people having to spend time preparing to have fun, when they could be having fun.

Food does not prevent you from having fun. It is not required in any area of the game.
Just like ascended armor and weapons. IF you have it you’ll get a nice boost but if you don’t you’re not going to feel much of a difference and can still do anything you want whenever you want it.

I always thought the food system was clunky and just weird-I used to use it, but having to click every 30mins got annoying fast. I don’t think they should totally remove it-just a bit of redesign. The +x%dmg against certain foe and -x%dmg from certain foes ones could be consolidated into the slayer achievements (can be made to fit thematically-the more you fight a certain monster the more efficient you get at offense and defense) for example and condition duration increase could be added to the rune system. Really it’s just the karma, gold and mf buffs that fit and wouldn’t bother me. I suppose some ppl like seeing buffs cover from their heal skill to their elite but I’m not one of them-I prefer an elegant system than a clunky one; to play in a cohesive game world rather than with bunch of spreadsheets.

I don’t think the food system will be changed though-can live your fantasies through suggestions in threads like these but that’s the best you can hope for.

I can understand how it sometimes feel’s like others are trying to force you to do something you may not want to OP. However, that is also not an excuse to make Anet remove it either. Others enjoy the min-max, mix it up customization that these things provide. Just like in GW1, if you don’t want to use a consumable, then just don’t freaking do it. Don’t let others dictate your play.

Personally, I craft my own consumables, but I rarely use them. Typically just I forget that I have them. When I do remember, it is fun to play around with some of the boosts from them. However, I’ve never popped a consumable just because someone I should be using ‘x.’

/no to this suggestion I see no need to remove these from the game

This seems like a slippery slope to me. Replace “food and nourishment” with “runes and sigils” and the same things you’re claiming apply.

Anyway, to answer the questions you posed…

-Is it really adding to your overall experience?

Yes, particularly because of the crafting component. I love cooking. It is unique among the crafting disciplines because it’s deeper. Artificer/huntsman/weaponsmith are always the same. Every tier you use X amount of that tier’s wood, Y amount of that tier’s metal, Z amount of that tier’s blood or bone or claw or teeth. Boring. The same goes for tailor/leatherworker/armorsmith. Jeweler is a bit different but still very repetitive. Cooking does have some of that repetition, yes, but it’s also more in depth because once you get to the higher level foods you have recipes that use multiple layers of other recipes. I really like that and I really like cooking and I would hate for that to go away.

-Does it make things too easy?

No. The argument could be made that it makes things slightly faster and therefore slightly easier, but I would not say too easy. If a person isn’t very skilled (yet) and they die because they fail to dodge or block or get out of red circles…food isn’t going to suddenly save them.

-Do I always use it? Why?

Most of the time, yes. Sometimes the buff wears off and I don’t notice so I’m without the food and nourishment until I realize I need to eat again. As for the why…the same reason why I always use armor and trinkets and runes and sigils: they help maximize my potential. (That’s not the same as saying they are required.)

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?

I don’t keep track of these things so I don’t really know. I’m pretty confident in saying that class/build/player skill/fight context (am I fighting open field or in a cramped space, has it been long enough since my last engagement that all of my skills come off cooldown) has orders of magnitude more to do with whether or not I win 1v1s than food ever would.

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?

As I discussed above, yes, I craft my own for fun and also for some profit by selling on the TP.

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

Yes, I do offer if the person says something along the lines of they ran out, or they’ll be right back because they need to go back out of the dungeon because they forgot food. However, if other people aren’t using food I don’t really care because, again, I don’t really feel it’s a requirement. Of course, when I’m pugging I also actively avoid the groups who demand full zerk, full meta, 100k+ AP and two decades of GW2 experience. For those groups, food probably is a requirement…but you’re not forced to join those groups if you’re looking for a more relaxed experience.

So, in summary, I absolutely disagree with the idea of removing food and nourishment. If food, and by implication cooking, was removed it would have a negative impact on my game experience.

Imbune.5497:

I always thought the food system was clunky and just weird-I used to use it, but having to click every 30mins got annoying fast. I don’t think they should totally remove it-just a bit of redesign. The +x%dmg against certain foe and -x%dmg from certain foes ones could be consolidated into the slayer achievements (can be made to fit thematically-the more kill fight a certain monster the more efficient you get at offense and defense) for example and condition duration increase could be added to the rune system. Really it’s just the karma, gold and mf buffs that fit and wouldn’t bother me. I suppose some ppl like seeing buffs cover from their heal skill to their elite but I’m not one of them-I prefer an elegant system than a clunky one; to play in a cohesive game world rather than with bunch of spreadsheets.

I don’t think the food system will be changed though-can live your fantasies through suggestions in threads like these but that’s the best you can hope for.

Agreed. The earlier alternative of +xdamage, -xrecieved would be a nice adjustment to the current, and a nice balance between the trolls above and the initial idea.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Harper.4173:

In this thread OP wishes to change the game because " he feels forced" to use something he doesn’t like.
Emphasis on “he feels”. That’s your problem, not the game’s.

N&F as you call it is necessary to provide another layer of improving and making your character unique. You use it to get better at what you want to do.

Your argument that it “trivializes” and “makes the game too easy” doesn’t really hold up at all because the same could be said about almost anything in the game:

-Waypoints make things easier and trivialize content.
-Armor pieces make things easier and trivialize content – let’s remove helms then.
-Weapons make things easier and trivialize content – let’s cut their damage in half and restrict players to one weapon set. That would certainly make things tougher.
-Runes and sigils make things easier and trivialize content – let’s remove them.

Hell – let’s cut players stats while we’re at it because why not.

See where this is going? By your logic anything that helps players progress could be held to the same standard as the F&N you’re so desperate to remove.

To conclude – a strong no to your proposal.

Sorry to have offended you by having an opinion.

You haven’t offended me. It’s just that I’m getting tired of threads where every week or so somebody tried to reinvent the wheel and remake the game.

Let’s be honest with ourselves here – there are different categories suggestions can be put in : some that are good, some that are bad and some that are so far off even the person suggesting it should know it’s never going to happen.

Your suggestion – regardless of how well thought out and well written it was is in that third category.
Anet isn’t going to simply go 180 on everything they’ve got up until now and just delete a significant game mechanic because you dislike it.

I too would have suggestions in mind – similarly I’d like nothing more than 4 of the 5 races to be cut out and GW2 being all about humans just like GW1 was. It would make for a much better game in my opinion because :

-Armor and weapon clipping could be easily fixed.
-New armor sets could be produced faster
-Lore would become more consistent and could potentially tie in better with GW1 lore.
-PvP would be a better place since we’d only have one set of animations ( small pesky asura chars are an issue with their small animations).

And that list could go on.

But I’m not going to make a thread about it because I know it’s so far out there that there’s no way it’ll work.

Nice idea! However i dont see this getting removed as they sell metabolic primers in store to increase food to 12hours.

Is it really adding to your overall experience?
Yes. I like the option of having little situational buffs that complement different builds.

Does it make things too easy?
No. Omnomberry bars have yet to flood my inventory with precursors, and even the most powerful slayer potions don’t turn me into an unstoppable juggernaut in dungeons. It’s a very slight advantage at best. Which foods do you find make content incredibly easy? Clearly, I’ve been using the wrong buffs. Lol.

Do I always use it? Why?
For most dungeons and exploring, absolutely. I run dungeons daily and the slayer potions are dirt cheap. I usually buy a stack at a time, and they last pretty long.

Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?
TP only. Crafting is tedious.

Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?
I sometimes used to do this as a newbie, particularly when the group was struggling to complete a dungeon path. Recently I find that most of the community has improved significantly, so it’s rarely needed. Often, I’m the only player using any food buffs at all.

Interesting points overall, but I’ve never thought of consumables as anything but a positive addition to the game. At worst, I remember being bummed at the cost of some of the nicer ones.

-Is it really adding to your overall experience? : In combat, not really. But it give you one more option to specialized your build. With gear, trait, sigils and runes, F&N are just a additional way to improve or optimize you build with is a good part of my experience in the game. In WvW, this even more part of the game since this can bring stuff that you would have a hard time to get like less condition duration on you or less received damage when stunned, etc. And in WvW, you really feel how it play a role and allow you to change your build to synergize with your F&N.

-Does it make things too easy? Its better stats, of course it make things easier. Does it make stuff trivial? Not at all. This is not the main aspect that could make stuff ‘’too easy’’. With the trait, gear, infusion, vulnerability, damage modifiers, might, fury, sigils and runes. F&N are only a small part of a big picture.

-Do I always use it? Why? : I rarely use in it in PvE, except when i think about it or when I’m doing a serious speed run. But in WvW I alway use it. Why? Because i’m part of a group that count of one another. In a serious speed run I expect the others to bring their best and I’ll do the same. Same things with WvW raid, I count of my other raid member to bring their best and be better than the ennemy and F&N helps in that regard.

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it? I rarely check that out. I’m playing a backstab thief, so I keep my attention on the weapons and movement of the other guy, but on my thief i don’t often use F&N, even if that would give me a good advantage. If i was a condi or stun player, then i would definitively check for those nasty Food that could make my build really bad lol.

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP? It depend. Some food cost less when you craft it, other cost more if I craft it. I usually check it out before ordering or crafting a good stack of those. If its only for a try to something quick, then i usually buy it.

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why? Depend on the content. On high level fractal, when i’ll give my friends some at specific fractal like dredge or volcano, because these can be longer or harder if you don’t have enough damage.

I wouldn’t mind too much if they remove it from the game, but i still think that it’s a good thing in the game. Just for the additional choice you make on your build.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Zalyn.9534:

I like the added customizability of F&N buffs; I find that I use different foods situationally depending on an anticipated encounter, and it’s nice using one that has a radius so I can support others in the group.

I also really like the Cooking discipline; it is the most realistic one I’ve found so far, and it is a great deal of fun to do. I find that I’m spurred to explore more just to find ingredients, so it gives great potential to enhance gameplay. But, as a luxury discipline, it takes more money and effort to do it, so it’s fair that it produces some consumables that are desirable for others to be marketable. However, the fact that F&N is not required is a fair compromise away from the “hard core requirement” to always have it.

My main problem, as with most of the crafting, is that people level up so quickly that the midrange items just aren’t really useful in themselves if you want to make money, so there is pressure to barrel through to max level if moneymaking is your goal.

But -
-Is it really adding to your overall experience?
-Does it make things too easy?
-Do I always use it? Why?
-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?
-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?
-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

Hey, you just asked us to keep those questions in mind, not put them in our post. I did keep them in mind, if you read my comment for comprehension. Why don’t you put up a poll if you want specific questions, and only those answered?

1. My entire comment points to it adding to my overall experience. But that question is kind of irrelevant to justify any one game feature.

2. No, it doesn’t make things too easy. I leveled to 80 without trying or ever staying at level in about two weeks just by organically following stories and events. I’m old school and enjoy the journey of leveling – WoW was much harder. I also solo most content; when there is more than one person on “group” events, they are frankly too easy. That has nothing to do with F&N. Red herring.

3. I pretty much always eat food because I’m leveling up cooking and need to free up inventory space. As I mentioned in my post, most foods aren’t very marketable for a reasonable profit unless you get to high end stuff. So I get to eat a lot of my own cooking (much like RL – I’m an amateur chef).

4. I don’t PvP. Irrelevant.

5. This question doesn’t make sense – you imply a comparison between “crafting for fun” and “buying off the TP.” Yes, I craft “for fun” (I play this game “for fun”) and I don’t buy any premade food off the TP. I do buy some rare ingredients from the TP, which stimulates the economy, and I sometimes sell components (which can’t go in collections and take up inventory), also stimulating the economy.

6. I don’t group much, so I don’t do this. If I were grouping with someone and had a stack of food, of course I would offer. But I don’t see what this question has to do with your issues with the F&N feature.

There, have I now justified the existence of F&N adequately to you in precisely the format that you want since you aren’t open to reading about people’s experiences in more than 140 characters?

Zalyn.9534:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Zalyn.9534:

I like the added customizability of F&N buffs; I find that I use different foods situationally depending on an anticipated encounter, and it’s nice using one that has a radius so I can support others in the group.

I also really like the Cooking discipline; it is the most realistic one I’ve found so far, and it is a great deal of fun to do. I find that I’m spurred to explore more just to find ingredients, so it gives great potential to enhance gameplay. But, as a luxury discipline, it takes more money and effort to do it, so it’s fair that it produces some consumables that are desirable for others to be marketable. However, the fact that F&N is not required is a fair compromise away from the “hard core requirement” to always have it.

My main problem, as with most of the crafting, is that people level up so quickly that the midrange items just aren’t really useful in themselves if you want to make money, so there is pressure to barrel through to max level if moneymaking is your goal.

But -
-Is it really adding to your overall experience?
-Does it make things too easy?
-Do I always use it? Why?
-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?
-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?
-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

Hey, you just asked us to keep those questions in mind, not put them in our post. I did keep them in mind, if you read my comment for comprehension. Why don’t you put up a poll if you want specific questions, and only those answered?

1. My entire comment points to it adding to my overall experience. But that question is kind of irrelevant to justify any one game feature.

2. No, it doesn’t make things too easy. I leveled to 80 without trying or ever staying at level in about two weeks just by organically following stories and events. I’m old school and enjoy the journey of leveling – WoW was much harder. I also solo most content; when there is more than one person on “group” events, they are frankly too easy. That has nothing to do with F&N. Red herring.

3. I pretty much always eat food because I’m leveling up cooking and need to free up inventory space. As I mentioned in my post, most foods aren’t very marketable for a reasonable profit unless you get to high end stuff. So I get to eat a lot of my own cooking (much like RL – I’m an amateur chef).

4. I don’t PvP. Irrelevant.

5. This question doesn’t make sense – you imply a comparison between “crafting for fun” and “buying off the TP.” Yes, I craft “for fun” (I play this game “for fun”) and I don’t buy any premade food off the TP. I do buy some rare ingredients from the TP, which stimulates the economy, and I sometimes sell components (which can’t go in collections and take up inventory), also stimulating the economy.

6. I don’t group much, so I don’t do this. If I were grouping with someone and had a stack of food, of course I would offer. But I don’t see what this question has to do with your issues with the F&N feature.

There, have I now justified the existence of F&N adequately to you in precisely the format that you want since you aren’t open to reading about people’s experiences in more than 140 characters?

I was just looking for more information from you to further see your side. Try not to take so much offense to such a simple request. As I said to the other, I’ll try not to have an opinion anymore.

I’m against anything that narrows down the build possibilities even further. That’s it. Also, can’t wait for ascended cooking. :P

I like the extra variety they give to my builds in various situations on various toons.

Do they make a difference 1v1- no. There is no such thing as a perfectly even match up between two players, one will always be better than the other or just get lucky with a proc or slight lag from a skill, or a missed roll, or badly aimed whatever.

Food boosts can make a difference in surviving in larger fights.

They are a part of the game, and nothing any player says will make the slightest difference, they are here to stay.

UnitedChaos.8364:

I was just looking for more information from you to further see your side. Try not to take so much offense to such a simple request. As I said to the other, I’ll try not to have an opinion anymore.

I didn’t take offense to the request. I took offense to your lack of interest in actually having a discussion about the topic. This isn’t about seeing my side since your questions frame the issue far too narrowly to adequately understand why people would be in favor of F&N. Again, if you were doing a poll, that would make sense, but if you want a discussion, then you should show the courtesy of reading people’s responses and perspectives to learn what they’re sharing.

I disagree with the proposal for reasons already explained by other posters.

I don’t think these boosts should be taken away, because what else are you going to make with the Chef profession other than dyes?

Also, food and maintenance boosts don’t guarantee victory, and you don’t necessarily need them for any part of the game to be successful. The only time I use them is for a temporary Magic Find or Experience Boost. I’m hardly an expert at certain aspects of this game, but I manage without them other than this.

95% of the time I don’t buff my chars with food. Largely because it’s not something that I’ve found to be necessary except in events like Wurms or Tequatl, and even then I rarely pop it in Tequatl.

Now, as for what F&N do for you. It was an interesting component that Anet tried to introduce such that it buffed you in combat. However, much of it makes little sense. Food by itself makes sense in that your characters need nourishment. Perhaps if food was used less as a buff but more as a restorative, not so much as a healing potion or a mana potion, but more of something to keep your endurance topped up. This isn’t meant to say that our stamina should degen over time, but just thinking out loud.

Diablo 2 had such a system meaning that you couldn’t continuously run for extended periods of time. Although immersive, it actually renders itself as more of a tedious non-necessary feature that held back your progression. It certainly would be immersive if your character, in mid run, suddenly grumbled “hmmm, sun is setting. Going to need food soon.”

Food in itself is a necessary component of an immersive world. How it impacts you in a world such as GW2 is very much open for debate. Statistically, it’s a law of averages. You boost your dps and thus shorten the time it takes to do various things. But when you look at it in the long run, the fractional increase in your dps does not usually equate to a substantial decrease in time taken to complete content. For instance, does a +10% damage to ghosts equate to a 10% decrease in time to do an AC run? Does +5% increase to your power equate to -5% decrease in time taken to do a dungeon. Even if the answer is yes, is that time noticeable? it takes you 10min to do a COF run, would you notice a 1min difference?

Azrael.4960:

95% of the time I don’t buff my chars with food. Largely because it’s not something that I’ve found to be necessary except in events like Wurms or Tequatl, and even then I rarely pop it in Tequatl.

Now, as for what F&N do for you. It was an interesting component that Anet tried to introduce such that it buffed you in combat. However, much of it makes little sense. Food by itself makes sense in that your characters need nourishment. Perhaps if food was used less as a buff but more as a restorative, not so much as a healing potion or a mana potion, but more of something to keep your endurance topped up. This isn’t meant to say that our stamina should degen over time, but just thinking out loud.

Diablo 2 had such a system meaning that you couldn’t continuously run for extended periods of time. Although immersive, it actually renders itself as more of a tedious non-necessary feature that held back your progression. It certainly would be immersive if your character, in mid run, suddenly grumbled “hmmm, sun is setting. Going to need food soon.”

“Norn needs food badly.” (sorry, had to do it)

You identified an important point of tension between realism and gameplay – food makes sense to have in a world since it is such an important part of our lives. But to make it necessary (as IRL) does feel tedious and disruptive to the playing experience many are looking for. So instead it usually supplies a buff of some sort.

WoW in early versions (Beta? Early release? Can’t remember) would have fatigue kick in if you played too long – your XP gain would go down and possibly other stats would drop a bit. That was removed because people didn’t want to be “punished” for playing too long. But that is one way to implement a need for food (or to suggest that players take a break if they’ve been playing too long).

(I think you meant Diablo 3?)

Azrael.4960:

Food in itself is a necessary component of an immersive world. How it impacts you in a world such as GW2 is very much open for debate. Statistically, it’s a law of averages. You boost your dps and thus shorten the time it takes to do various things. But when you look at it in the long run, the fractional increase in your dps does not usually equate to a substantial decrease in time taken to complete content. For instance, does a +10% damage to ghosts equate to a 10% decrease in time to do an AC run? Does +5% increase to your power equate to -5% decrease in time taken to do a dungeon. Even if the answer is yes, is that time noticeable? it takes you 10min to do a COF run, would you notice a 1min difference?

I am still in mid-range food since I’m leveling the discipline, but I often use it as an insurance policy – things like reduced stun damage make me feel like I’m taking a few more steps to protect myself. I don’t follow numbers closely (instead go by feel), so I don’t know if the buffs actually help me significantly. But I like stimulating myself to think about what stats or boons I want to boost when I choose which food to eat.

I do think that food that increases the chances of avoiding downed status (or recovering more quickly) would have nice utility while giving visible benefits in terms of time saving.

The only thing I would “consider” removing (concerning this topic) would be the armour and strenght booster from the store. Just because they take up spots in my inventory. I should just start using all that stuff, I always wait for that moment that never comes.

Firstly, cons were not required in GW1. Much like what you have to say about food in GW2, they made things easier – but required? No. Did lots of people use them to make things easier? Yes. Was it a set in stone requirement? No. Cons in GW1 did have a lot more of an effect on a group’s performance in high-end content than it has here in GW2, that much is true. However, it was still possible to do the content without consets.

Secondly, I wholeheartedly disagree with removing consumables from the game. I was going to make a list of refutations to counter each of your arguments, but I don’t have the time and it all pretty much boiled down to one thing. Food and oil is a min-max strategy that is fairly balanced. A couple of food items could use some slight tweaking, but as a whole it is fine in my opinion.

As for your comments about food and oil in WvW, it is fine the way it is. If you can’t kill someone 1v1 because they are using slight damage buffs, you should probably review how you messed up in the fight and practice more. In open field fights, food and oil is part of the strategy and serious WvW based guilds will use different food/oils depending on the player’s role in the group.

Cooking was the most fun I had leveling a crafting profession (I discovered recipes on my own without any sort of guide when I first did it) and I would hate for new players to be denied this experience along with the opportunity to be able to min-max their builds if they choose to.

Food/oil is a personal choice and if you don’t like it you don’t have to use it. The effect it has is minuscule in most situations, but for those who like to min-max their builds it is fun to test out and play around with. I think it’s a little ridiculous to call for content to be removed from the game when the majority of new content we get is temporary.

Have to disagree, if anything I would like to see additional F&N options as well as other categories of consumables. Anytime you are able to allow people to further customize their characters with options that are interesting and of value you extend game play as people can try content one way and then re-try content with an altered character. In that light more categories of consumables would further options for customization. Now another aspect to this is that consumables are also a trade line that helps the game rotate funds and items in and out of the game as their resources need to be refreshed since once used are gone. To crafters and traders that makes those lines of some additional interest over others potentially.
2 cents, good hunting!