Guild Wars 2

Could you please add one or two slimmer bodies for male Norn to choose from?

It is a shame that one can have a normal looking female Norn, yet all males have to look like shapeless chunks.

1/4 less of arm and torso girth as well as feet width would make a huge difference already. (I wouldn’t mind more human looking shapes, either, like Norn females have.)
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Edit 1: Attachment #1 shows what I have in mind:

Edit 2: Attachment #2 shows how misshapen and asymmetric the male Norns’ body structure is, while their females all look divinely perfect. I don’t mind the amount of extra muscles, but the anatomical inferiority is quite a disgrace.

I second this!

/15 charr can cancan.

But we already have that, its called Human

mazut.4296:

But we already have that, its called Human

Well, you either make a race more “bulky” looking in general, for both male and female versions, or you at least offer the option to allow male characters to look as “super model” as their female counterparts.

I don’t think that yeti-sized feet, strangely shaped muscles and a general Neaderthal look (body-wise) should be reserved for only one gender… that makes no sense from a genetic point of view, especially since Norn boys look as “normal” as their girls.

Ashantara.8731:

mazut.4296:

But we already have that, its called Human

that makes no sense from a genetic point of view, especially since Norn boys look as “normal” as their girls.

It totally can make sense, puberty and other hormonal changes can theoretically cause the shape of growing bodies to change dramatically. It’s a stretch in this case, but making statements like this just makes it obvious you know jack kitten about genetics.

Ariurotl.3718:

Ashantara.8731:

mazut.4296:

But we already have that, its called Human

that makes no sense from a genetic point of view, especially since Norn boys look as “normal” as their girls.

It totally can make sense, puberty and other hormonal changes can theoretically cause the shape of growing bodies to change dramatically. It’s a stretch in this case, but making statements like this just makes it obvious you know jack kitten about genetics.

Look. No need to insult me for not being a biologist. The last time I was confronted with the basics of genetics, it was in high school about a quarter of a century ago.

Still, I doubt it is very “realistic” for a whole humanoid race to have males look that far off from their female counter-parts, especially when they look 100% identical before puberty. And in particular since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders. (And frankly, I have traveled the real world quite a bit and have never spotted any such grave physiological differences between men and women in any of the corners of our beautiful planet, either. Characteristics like basic bone structure, height etc. are usually being shared physiological characteristics for the respective region.)

Ashantara.8731:

Ariurotl.3718:

Ashantara.8731:

mazut.4296:

But we already have that, its called Human

that makes no sense from a genetic point of view, especially since Norn boys look as “normal” as their girls.

It totally can make sense, puberty and other hormonal changes can theoretically cause the shape of growing bodies to change dramatically. It’s a stretch in this case, but making statements like this just makes it obvious you know jack kitten about genetics.

Look. No need to insult me for not being a biologist. The last time I was confronted with the basics of genetics, it was in high school about a quarter of a century ago.

Still, I doubt it is very “realistic” for a whole humanoid race to have males look that far off from their female counter-parts, especially when they look 100% identical before puberty. And in particular since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders. (And frankly, I have traveled the real world quite a bit and have never spotted any such grave physiological differences between men and women in any of the corners of our beautiful planet, either. Characteristics like basic bone structure, height etc. are usually being shared physiological characteristics for the respective region.)

That’s apples to oranges.

You’ve traveled the real world but you’re only looking at one species. Humans. Norns may look like humans but they are not human. (Norns are native to Tyria and humans were brought over from a different planet). Norns are a separate species (humans and Norns can not interbreed) and males/females of a species can look similar as adolescents but markedly different as adults.

Since there are only humans on this planet I can’t show a picture showing marked sexual dimorphism among humanoids but there are other species that have this feature.

Example. Elephant Seals. The sexes look the same when young, but markedly different as adults.

Adult male and female

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashantara.8731:

Ariurotl.3718:

Ashantara.8731:

mazut.4296:

But we already have that, its called Human

that makes no sense from a genetic point of view, especially since Norn boys look as “normal” as their girls.

It totally can make sense, puberty and other hormonal changes can theoretically cause the shape of growing bodies to change dramatically. It’s a stretch in this case, but making statements like this just makes it obvious you know jack kitten about genetics.

Look. No need to insult me for not being a biologist. The last time I was confronted with the basics of genetics, it was in high school about a quarter of a century ago.

Still, I doubt it is very “realistic” for a whole humanoid race to have males look that far off from their female counter-parts, especially when they look 100% identical before puberty. And in particular since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders. (And frankly, I have traveled the real world quite a bit and have never spotted any such grave physiological differences between men and women in any of the corners of our beautiful planet, either. Characteristics like basic bone structure, height etc. are usually being shared physiological characteristics for the respective region.)

That’s apples to oranges.

You’ve traveled the real world but you’re only looking at one species. Humans. Norns may look like humans but they are not human. (Norns are native to Tyria and humans were brought over from a different planet). Norns are a separate species (humans and Norns can not interbreed) and males/females of a species can look similar as adolescents but markedly different as adults.

True, but he was responding to someone using real world justification for their views on the matter.

Ashen.2907:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashantara.8731:

Ariurotl.3718:

Ashantara.8731:

mazut.4296:

But we already have that, its called Human

that makes no sense from a genetic point of view, especially since Norn boys look as “normal” as their girls.

It totally can make sense, puberty and other hormonal changes can theoretically cause the shape of growing bodies to change dramatically. It’s a stretch in this case, but making statements like this just makes it obvious you know jack kitten about genetics.

Look. No need to insult me for not being a biologist. The last time I was confronted with the basics of genetics, it was in high school about a quarter of a century ago.

Still, I doubt it is very “realistic” for a whole humanoid race to have males look that far off from their female counter-parts, especially when they look 100% identical before puberty. And in particular since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders. (And frankly, I have traveled the real world quite a bit and have never spotted any such grave physiological differences between men and women in any of the corners of our beautiful planet, either. Characteristics like basic bone structure, height etc. are usually being shared physiological characteristics for the respective region.)

That’s apples to oranges.

You’ve traveled the real world but you’re only looking at one species. Humans. Norns may look like humans but they are not human. (Norns are native to Tyria and humans were brought over from a different planet). Norns are a separate species (humans and Norns can not interbreed) and males/females of a species can look similar as adolescents but markedly different as adults.

True, but he was responding to someone using real world justification for their views on the matter.

Not sure of your point. It’s still comparing 2 different species on Tyria and one species on Earth.

Ok people lets stop trying to be your so called realism into the game but he has a point the builds are extremely small or extremely large it is sensible to have a happy medium and anyone who argues that is being childish.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That’s apples to oranges.

You’ve traveled the real world but you’re only looking at one species. Humans.

Sure, respond to only one part of my argumentation, the one that I was given as an additional example after my actual reference to Tyria. I wrote: “[…] since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders.”

So…

Anyway, it’s pointless to argue with people who don’t understand my OP. I merely asked for more options for male Norn, as females do look like kittening humans, so I want to at least be able to create a male Norn who does not have weirdly shaped werebear body. That was my whole point.

P.S. Let’s face it, Guild Wars’ Norn are a spitting image of Warcraft’s Orcs in regard of their physiology: females have “sexy” bodies while males look like bulky muscle packs with short legs, huge feet and hands, and a tiny head on top of their ridiculous bodies.

Ashantara.8731:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That’s apples to oranges.

You’ve traveled the real world but you’re only looking at one species. Humans.

Sure, respond to only one part of my argumentation, the one that I was given as an additional example after my actual reference to Tyria. I wrote: “[…] since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders.”

So…

Anyway, it’s pointless to argue with people who don’t understand my OP. I merely asked for more options for male Norn, as females do look like kittening humans, so I want to at least be able to create a male Norn who does not have weirdly shaped werebear body. That was my whole point.

P.S. Let’s face it, Guild Wars’ Norn are a spitting image of Warcraft’s Orcs in regard of their physiology: females have “sexy” bodies while males look like bulky muscle packs with short legs, huge feet and hands, and a tiny head on top of their ridiculous bodies.

since all other humanoid races on Tyria sport similar characteristics between their two genders.

Sorry, but that’s irrelevant to any argument about sexual dimorphism. Other species and whether or not they’re sexually dimorphic doesn’t mean that a totally different species can or can not be dimorphic.

Anyway, it’s pointless to argue with people who don’t understand my OP. I merely asked for more options for male Norn, as females do look like kittening humans, so I want to at least be able to create a male Norn who does not have weirdly shaped werebear body. That was my whole point.

Completely possible, if ANet allows. Whether or not a species is dimorphic says nothing about the individuals. That is, it’s perfectly possible for a male Norn to be small and skinny (or a female Norn to be bulky and muscled for that matter).

(By the way, humans are mildly sexually dimorphic. They just aren’t as markedly dimorphic as Norns).

Edit: I wasn’t saying that smaller male Norns wasn’t possible. I was pointing out that your arguments about sexual dimorphism was incorrect. For the record, I agree that more body sizes, including small males, would be a good thing to add.

I want better human male beards.

I wish they would fix the feet of the male norns. It looks like a guy wearing clown shoes I have tried so hard to play male norn but I cant do it. Every time I make a male norn I end up switching it to female which is a shame. I want to experiance the male and female side of the norn.

Regardless of what’s possible or probable biologically, I agree it would be fantastic to have male Norns be as proportional to human males as female Norns are to human females. It makes sense to me. I’d be among the first to buy more character slots to create towering male Norn models! As they are, I have no interest in them. Bodies too deformed, heads too small for the bodies. Just unappealing.

I just edited my original post to show what I mean.

I don’t want a 1:1 human male body. I like the extra muscle, that’s a typical Norn trait.

I just want a nicer overall shape (see screenshot comments for details) and a better body-head-ratio.

Ashantara.8731:

I just edited my original post to show what I mean.

I don’t want a 1:1 human male body. I like the extra muscle, that’s a typical Norn trait.

I just want a nicer overall shape (see screenshot comments for details) and a better body-head-ratio.

This is what super-strong guys tend to really look like: http://nightflight.com/wp-content/uploads/CHICAGO-WRESTLING-2a.jpg

It’s a world different from what you are asking for, and much closer to … yup, the model that is in use today for male norn.

I think Norn need thicker legs more than thinner torsos.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

This is what super-strong guys tend to really look like: http://nightflight.com/wp-content/uploads/CHICAGO-WRESTLING-2a.jpg

It’s a world different from what you are asking for, and much closer to … yup, the model that is in use today for male norn.

But we already have such Norn bodies! (Although their heads are still too tiny even at maximum size, compared to the two human males in your example, and their feet are still ridiculously huge, which has zero to do with body muscle mass…)

All I am asking for is the addition of ONE (or two) slimmer model(s), like the one in my OP’s edited screenshot.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Example. Elephant Seals. The sexes look the same when young, but markedly different as adults.

Adult male and female

Did I not, repeatedly, explicitly point out that I was talking about humanoids, not animals? ^^

Sartharina.3542:

I think Norn need thicker legs more than thinner torsos.

Only if they adjust females to match that appearance.

I don’t know why people keep arguming with me. I am not asking for the current bodies to be altered, I am asking for an additional option.

Ashantara.8731:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Example. Elephant Seals. The sexes look the same when young, but markedly different as adults.

Adult male and female

Did I not, repeatedly, explicitly point out that I was talking about humanoids, not animals? ^^

I see you want to continue this discussion after I stopped talking about it and I agreed with you about adding new body types. Very well, since you want to bring it back up, lets talk about it some more. I’ll answer each post you make to me.

Unless you are somehow making the argument that it can only effect humanoids your post has no point. Any species can have sexual dimorphism.

And again, Humans have sexual dimorphism. It’s just not as extreme as Norns.

So that’s a humanoid with sexual dimorphism. You don’t see it because you’re used to men being on average stronger and taller than women and apparently you’re thinking of it as an all or none, large difference thing like Norns. But it’s a gradient. Some species are mildly dimorphic, some medium and some are greatly dimorphic. Humans are mildly dimorphic.

Okay, let’s not argue about that, let’s focus on the aesthetics.

I already stated that it is not the amount of muscles per se that I mind as much as I mind the weird looking body shape (head-body-ratio, feet-body-ratio, leg length, posture etc.).

To make this more clear and demonstrate the truly crooked, misshapen aspects of the male Norn body, I have made this little graphic for you (see attachment). I hope you see the misshapen dissymmetry — that bothers me the most, which is also why I would prefer a hyper-muscular version of the male human body shape (which is symmetrical and has normal size ratios) over that of a male Norn.

Besides the male Norn head being too small, I agree about those over-sized feet. They look ridiculous. But perhaps the worst offender of their anatomy lies in the chestal region… To me, male Norns look like caricatures of elderly body builders. They remind me more of dwarves (squat bodies, arms and waists too big, etc.), really, than humans.

Female Norns look like goddesses to me. I dream of one day being able to create an equally god-like male Norn.

Nikal.4921:

Besides the male Norn head being too small, I agree about those over-sized feet. They look ridiculous. But perhaps the worst offender of their anatomy lies in the chestal region… To me, male Norns look like caricatures of elderly body builders. They remind me more of dwarves (squat bodies, arms and waists too big, etc.), really, than humans.

Female Norns look like goddesses to me. I dream of one day being able to create an equally god-like male Norn.

Couldn’t have said it better. Thank you. (And I agree on their chests, yuck!)

Besides those factors, as the last screenshot I posted proves they are anatomically misshapen. And this is an afront compared to their female “goddesses” (as you referred to them correctly).

On the head size part, do you find it too small even if you make it larger in character creation? I’ve only got one male norn so I don’t recall offhand if for some reason they don’t have the head size sliders that other races get, but you can really alter the shape a lot with those sliders.

A friend made this really handsome male norn early in the game; I think his head has been slimmed. Sorry for partially blocking him with my human there. Overall I think he’s a lot closer to what the OP is looking for than one might think a norn can get.

Id love that!!! I wonna make norms and they thematic is cool to me but i always found them too bulky and well.. too kitten y. Anet could also make money off of this by allowying us to by these body shapes in the gemstore. Cashcashcashgrab in the gemstore.. oops sorry for that one xD i got lost in the rythm

Donari.5237:

On the head size part, do you find it too small even if you make it larger in character creation?

Yes. I already answered that before when I stated “even at max size”.

You picked one of the “bigger” faces and hair that makes the head look larger. If someone wants a different face and haircut, the heads really do look tiny. Had a similar issue with my female Norn, I have to admit: Picked not the thinnest body, and when I used “flatter” hair, the head looked disproportional to the body; had to pick a different hair style to “fix” that issue.