Guild Wars 2

How much junk do you have lying in your inventory from the living story? Bank? How much? Chances you probably have stacks horded away for “when your going to use it”, or it has just accumulated in the last 10 minutes of playing.

It’s not really about the spam, but the diminishing feeling of satisfaction from those items. Remember that first exotic you bought after much hardship and work? Satisfying, right? Remember those 347 stacks of presents you had to open…? Not so much. Let’s elaborate…

Things given way too much:

Tomes of Knowledge / Scrolls of knowledge: these should be a very, very rare occurance. Instead you get ~10-20 every login. There is no such thing as leveling up any more or working to get to level 80. Just open that bank and spam click.

Gold: Those days when getting gold was tough are gone. Just do a couple dungeons and your given 1-1.5g every path. I remember when the game first came out, and it felt so rewarding to buy that next piece of exotic gear. Now it’s like, “Cool, did a couple dungeons and got 50g. I may as well start another ascended armor set.” Gold has pretty much lost all value since it has lost its rewarding feel.

Junk: (particularly living story junk): who doesn’t have 5 or 6 stacks of bandit crests, abundance of presents, oodles of snowflakes, mounds of key, piles of new snowfall runes, millions of silky sand, and an amass of winters day weapons all seemingly unwilling to be sold out of your inventory. I get it, ‘tis the season and all that, but it’s beyond ridiculous.

Dust, Fragments, and Dragonite: supposedly these are supposed to be “endgame” tier 6 materials, but they are hands-down the most abundant materials in the game. Even if each current drop yielded 0-1 instead of ~10 they would still be overflowing inventories everywhere.

Conclusion
A little reward goes a long way, but when given in excess it no longer is a reward. The “reward” at launch was seeing that work pay off and feeling that fullfilment. I firmly belive that reducing all rewards would eventually make those rewards feel, once more, rewarding. I’m not saying everything should be a grind, absolutely not. But it’s evident that ANET doesn’t understand meaningful and fulfilling reward system. In fact, I would say it’s going the totally wrong direction (see above).

Solution
1. Reduce the spam. You’re not rewarding, you’re just making the player complacent.
2. Before new content is released, (b)limit (/b) how many junk items will be added and have a absolute way of removing them (Remove on map exit? Are they even necessary? If a player plays for one hour does he need 300 superior Sigils of mischief and 700 minor, or should he/she maybe recieve 1, if they’re lucky?)

Thoughts?

To add to this:
If you compare dungeons to say teq:
Dungeon:
first time- all chests, 26s+20 tokens, 1-3 gold.
Alts – no chests, 26s, 20 tokens. No gold.

Teq:
First:
fine, masterwork, rare, exotic, ground chests
Alt:
Fine, masterwork, rare, ground chests.

Loot for repeating dungeons is much heavier nerfed than repeating world bosses.

1) ToK and Scolls : I have use for all of them even if I alreayd have 8 character at 80. You can make gold out of them and I’m always in need of more skill point. I want more of these.

2) Gold : What is wrong with gold? I always have a project in the background, a legendary, an achievement, a nice skins, etc. Yup ppl used to have way less gold, but they used to not knowing how to make gold when the game started. You where not doing 1 gold at the end of a path in the pass, but every single veteran or higher were giving you gold back then. They were ways to make as much gold as today in dungeon, but ppl didn’t know them back then, that’s all.

3) Bandits Crest, Snowflake, Gift, keys and Silky Sands. I use them all, there is no problem with them. The new runes I agree are pretty pathetic and they went a bit crazy with the amount of winters weapons in the gifts.

4) Tier 7 material. On that I can’t agree more. I would prefer they gave us more ways to spend them because not everyone have them in large quantity, someone not doing dungeon or silverwaste won’t have that much of them for an armor and weapons. Mawdrey 2 and the Star of gratitude is of great help.

I don’t think that’s a big problem in the game. Most of the time its because ppl don’t know that a excellent use of some of the item exist in the game. But for some staff Anet just blow it up with a way too large source or not enough ways to use them. I see two major problem

- Under use of the wallet for all the new currency they add in the game.
- Way too many different currency in the game make then harder to balance so they don’t lose their value.

While I agree with the very general thrust of the OP, he or she keeps going on about what seems to be his or her specific sense of fulfillment upon it all.

I dunno mate. I can’t sympathize, and I don’t rationally see this being a problem they’re ever going to address by any sort of total system rework.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

To add to this:
If you compare dungeons to say teq:
Dungeon:
first time- all chests, 26s+20 tokens, 1-3 gold.
Alts – no chests, 26s, 20 tokens. No gold.

Teq:
First:
fine, masterwork, rare, exotic, ground chests
Alt:
Fine, masterwork, rare, ground chests.

Loot for repeating dungeons is much heavier nerfed than repeating world bosses.

There is a limit to the amount of times you can do teq in one day so the nerph on dungeons seems reasonable

BlkPrince.2854:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

To add to this:
If you compare dungeons to say teq:
Dungeon:
first time- all chests, 26s+20 tokens, 1-3 gold.
Alts – no chests, 26s, 20 tokens. No gold.

Teq:
First:
fine, masterwork, rare, exotic, ground chests
Alt:
Fine, masterwork, rare, ground chests.

Loot for repeating dungeons is much heavier nerfed than repeating world bosses.

There is a limit to the amount of times you can do teq in one day so the nerph on dungeons seems reasonable

You seem to have missed the key point.
Both reduced loots were on alts. Yes this limits the number of times you can repeat it. This applies to everything that is once/day/char.

edit:
I guess there is the number of times/day teq spawns.

But compare the second time around:

teq: 80% of the chests (realistically probably around 70% of the loot)

Dungeon:
33% of the tokens.
20% (or less) of the gold
0% of the chests along the way.

if I play 4 hours a day I can make 8 to 10 gold maximum. If it got nerfed any lower I could not make enough money to get anything that I want.

CASUAL FRIENDLY MMO…. never forget. :P

Artemis Thuras.8795:

You seem to have missed the key point.
Both reduced loots were on alts. Yes this limits the number of times you can repeat it. This applies to everything that is once/day/char.

edit:
I guess there is the number of times/day teq spawns.

But compare the second time around:

teq: 80% of the chests (realistically probably around 70% of the loot)

Dungeon:
33% of the tokens.
20% (or less) of the gold
0% of the chests along the way.

Ya but there is 24 dungeons path that give tokens. Ok there is like 6 of those paths that are not that nice to do with pugs and its hard anyway to get pugs for them anyway. That’s still 4-5 hours with a decent group. Unless you are telling me you that you do them all everyday and you want to do more, that’s a non issue.

Come on, Tequatl fine/masterwork/rare chests are more or less only useless greenies, I’d prefer one single exotic chest over 10 of the lesser ones. Ground chest seems to be bugging since I often can’t loot it with an alt.

Millions of silky sand? Simply use it. Sell everything that is sellable. It’s of course really enervating how many wintersday thingies aren’t worth more than 2 copper, but so you simply throw that away. It’s not like you HAVE to keep it.
If you have many bandit crests, use them for something you need. Or just throw them away if you have everything / aren’t interested in those rare bags.

I disagree with some of OPs complaints. Love tomes and scrolls, can always turn skill points into money. Gold, well I can never have enough of that. Bandit crests? Turn them into bags of gear to get more salvageable items for materials..

Wintersday gift rewards I think pretty much everyone has agreed have been underwhelming and too much clicking.

Ascended mats take up a lot of space, that I agree on as well.

As far as the reward system goes, I think the more challenging content should actually have rewards increased, not the rest of the rewards decreased.

Quality > quantity.

I’d rather have one rare and useful item every once and then, say, 2-3 per day or week, and feel extremely satisfied with it, than getting spammed with clickable junk that spams more clickable junk that overloads my intentory with valueless runes, valueless skins and valueless materials. You can’t even sell them when they are sellable, because of how common they are.

When you have items like Mawdrey II, that consume massive amounts of “precious” materials for even more junk, and players are satisfied to transform overly common non-tradeable junk for tradeable junk, then you know the reward system in this game is not doing something right.

One man’s junk another NPC’s treasure.

Thaddeus.4891:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

You seem to have missed the key point.
Both reduced loots were on alts. Yes this limits the number of times you can repeat it. This applies to everything that is once/day/char.

edit:
I guess there is the number of times/day teq spawns.

But compare the second time around:

teq: 80% of the chests (realistically probably around 70% of the loot)

Dungeon:
33% of the tokens.
20% (or less) of the gold
0% of the chests along the way.

Ya but there is 24 dungeons path that give tokens. Ok there is like 6 of those paths that are not that nice to do with pugs and its hard anyway to get pugs for them anyway. That’s still 4-5 hours with a decent group. Unless you are telling me you that you do them all everyday and you want to do more, that’s a non issue.

The issue is quite simple:
It made it harder to find groups because people can only do each path once.
No one wants to redo to help their friends/guildies out.

This one thing is why dungeons are seen as unpopular. They are in no way worth repeating.
world bosses can be repeated without too much diminishing return.

Alternatively, we could make teq only give you spoons for repeat completions?
Grey junk items at others?
After all, there are other world bosses you could do, and that can take a few hours to do a full rotation.
Sounds perfectly fine to me

Fix’d!

Tomes of Knowledge / Scrolls of knowledge: We have way to less of these! Even if Anet would give me 3 stacks right now, I would need way more! I hope Anet will increase the way’s to get more of these!

Gold: Legendary’s and other stuff are unbelievable expensive. Anet should give way better loot and more gold for doing things once a day. And yes Anet shouldn’t give anything for doing something twice a day!

Junk: (particularly living story junk): Anet should give us way more of the things you call “junk”. You can trade it to nice things, it’s fair to farm. And you can hold it and save for thing you really want. If bank space is your problem -> Go to the gemshop and buy more space (and support the game through this)!

Dust, Fragments, and Dragonite: We have not enough of them! Anet should give us way more. If you don’t like them, then use the star of gratidute or mawdrey2. If these are to expensive or boring for you, just destroy it!

Conclusion
We have way to less loot, anet should give us more!

Solution
1. Give more loot, so people can get ingame more and cheaper stuff. Good thing is that more bank and bag slots will be sold as more different stuff we need to collect!

DiogoSilva.7089:

When you have items like Mawdrey II, that consume massive amounts of “precious” materials for even more junk, and players are satisfied to transform overly common non-tradeable junk for tradeable junk, then you know the reward system in this game is not doing something right.

I think you are right.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Quality > quantity.

I’d rather have one rare and useful item every once and then, say, 2-3 per day or week, and feel extremely satisfied with it, than getting spammed with clickable junk that spams more clickable junk that overloads my intentory with valueless runes, valueless skins and valueless materials. You can’t even sell them when they are sellable, because of how common they are.

When you have items like Mawdrey II, that consume massive amounts of “precious” materials for even more junk, and players are satisfied to transform overly common non-tradeable junk for tradeable junk, then you know the reward system in this game is not doing something right.

Spot on.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

The issue is quite simple:
It made it harder to find groups because people can only do each path once.
No one wants to redo to help their friends/guildies out.

This one thing is why dungeons are seen as unpopular. They are in no way worth repeating.
world bosses can be repeated without too much diminishing return.

Alternatively, we could make teq only give you spoons for repeat completions?
Grey junk items at others?
After all, there are other world bosses you could do, and that can take a few hours to do a full rotation.
Sounds perfectly fine to me

Dungeon was repeatable with profit and they changed it on purpose. But whatever, I don’t like to repeat stuff over and over again. I like doing some dungeons, then pvp, then going at silverwaste, then doing a fractal, etc. This system is perfect for me because I want to do a lot of different thing and not the same thing over and over again.

Sigils/Runes are the worst culprit. Specifically Minors. And this was an issue BEFORE Wintersday.

I feel like the minor tier of upgrades should have 5-7 different types tops. Wait till you get to the major tier before you start introducing the many upgrade bonuses.

When I was a new player I was overwhelmed by the sheer number of rune choices and generally opted to throw on whatever I picked up rather than actually looking into what does what.

If you want something to streamline to make the NPE less confusing, reduce the number of stats for these things at the green tier. That way even veterans can be happy about the change as they can make 5-7 neat stacks rather than however many we have now.

this happens because no life people abuse good rewards , like Silverwastes right now

I’ve been pretty satisfied with the reward system so far. Worth noting: I have a life outside of GW2.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Things given way too much:

Tomes of Knowledge / Scrolls of knowledge: these should be a very, very rare occurance. Instead you get ~10-20 every login. There is no such thing as leveling up any more or working to get to level 80. Just open that bank and spam click.

Thoughts?

ok about that ! how the HELL! u get 10-20 Tomes of Knowledge every log in ?

UnitedChaos.8364:

Gold: Those days when getting gold was tough are gone.

When was getting gold tough??

Gold accumulates too fast? Refreshing change of pace from the usual.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Quality > quantity.

I’d rather have one rare and useful item every once and then, say, 2-3 per day or week, and feel extremely satisfied with it, than getting spammed with clickable junk that spams more clickable junk that overloads my intentory with valueless runes, valueless skins and valueless materials. You can’t even sell them when they are sellable, because of how common they are.

When you have items like Mawdrey II, that consume massive amounts of “precious” materials for even more junk, and players are satisfied to transform overly common non-tradeable junk for tradeable junk, then you know the reward system in this game is not doing something right.

I agree. ANet is spamming rewards left and right…which is a fast food approach to game design. The rewards are trivial and of little value because most of it is unusable and unwanted.

I don’t craft or do fractals; yet I have copious amounts of account bound crafting materials, some of which have no assigned crafting bank slot so have to take up space elsewhere. Other than destroying the mats, which I detest that idea, I keep getting more of this useless “ascended junk”.

For people who say, “Well just get Mawdrey 2 or SoG!” Please, just stuff it, I’m not going to “craft” in order to get rid of crafting materials I don’t use because I don’t craft. Neither am I going to spend the roughly 100-150 gold on materials to make Mawdrey 2.

As for SoG…I don’t do jumping puzzles, if I wanted to play an arcade game, I’d play an arcade game.

Finally, it should be noted, that both SoG and Mawdrey 2 only get rid of ridiculously small amounts of only a couple of the problematic material types.

ANet put in the Mystic Forge for a good reason, they need to make it even more useful.

Just let me put four stacks of this crap in the Mystic Toilet for RNG rewards already!

Problem solved.

Conaywea.5062:

this happens because no life people abuse good rewards , like Silverwastes right now

I’m really annoyed that people keep making this type of argument. The same thing is said of EotM, “Players created the problem, they are greedy just want karma/XP trains, yada yada…”

Give me a break! Players do what players always do in games, they optimize and maximize potential. Game designers, you know those guys that actually DESIGN the game, have to be able to predict and understand how players play games.

So please, give this silliness a rest.

Just accept the reality that players will play the ever-loving freak out of a game as it is delivered to them. Dev intentions are ultimately meaningless, it’s only the design that matters, and only the design can effectively change things.

A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, both would sink and the scorpion would drown.

The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that no change can be made in the behaviour of the fundamentally vicious.

Kuldebar.1897:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Quality > quantity.

I’d rather have one rare and useful item every once and then, say, 2-3 per day or week, and feel extremely satisfied with it, than getting spammed with clickable junk that spams more clickable junk that overloads my intentory with valueless runes, valueless skins and valueless materials. You can’t even sell them when they are sellable, because of how common they are.

When you have items like Mawdrey II, that consume massive amounts of “precious” materials for even more junk, and players are satisfied to transform overly common non-tradeable junk for tradeable junk, then you know the reward system in this game is not doing something right.

As for SoG…I don’t do jumping puzzles, if I wanted to play an arcade game, I’d play an arcade game.

It’s literally 15 minutes of your time to help fix one of your storage issues…

I don’t like everything in-game either but when something so easy gives me such benefits I’m willing to sacrifice a little bit of my day to get it done.

Novuake.2691:

CASUAL FRIENDLY MMO…. never forget. :P

^^ This.

Also OP, how is this a suggestion? It seems you are just complaining about your personal view on the matter. Not everyone is you. Not everyone has a mountain of “junk” items or gold for that matter, not everyone plays the same amount as you do, I think you can see where this is going.

I do not see anything wrong with his the game rewards players. Do I want better drops? Sure I do, who dosnt want the game to shower them in pecursers? I’m sure if I didn’t have a wife and child, I could just spend any time I had free playing the game to get to the point where I have things that other people would love to have and see it as junk. Maybe you just need to slow down a bit? Not go so all out on things and get stacks of items you don’t want. Play a diffrent game mode? I personally don’t find WvW that much of a money maker, I’m sure there are ways to make coin in WvW, I just don’t play it all that much to find out the most effective way to make coin doing it.

Goose.8195:

It’s literally 15 minutes of your time to help fix one of your storage issues…

I don’t like everything in-game either but when something so easy gives me such benefits I’m willing to sacrifice a little bit of my day to get it done.

But it won’t “fix” it.

3-6 stacks of 50 a day; let’s be nice and say 300 empyreal fragments a day…considering the current inventory I have of the stuff plus my accrual rates; I may as well be paying off 30k in credit card debt by making minimum payments.

Don’t give me a thimble and have me start bailing water on a sinking ship; and certainly don’t call that thimble a “fix”

Kuldebar.1897:

Goose.8195:

It’s literally 15 minutes of your time to help fix one of your storage issues…

I don’t like everything in-game either but when something so easy gives me such benefits I’m willing to sacrifice a little bit of my day to get it done.

But it won’t “fix” it.

3-6 stacks of 50 a day; let’s be nice and say 300 empyreal fragments a day…considering the current inventory I have of the stuff plus my accrual rates; I may as well be paying off 30k in credit card debt by making minimum payments.

Don’t give me a thimble and have me start bailing water on a sinking ship; and certainly don’t call that thimble a “fix”

That’s why I said “help fix.” Obviously it won’t alleviate the problem entirely, and really isn’t a great solution, but in the time you’ve spent on here today you could have had it done.

Unlike a sinking ship you can simply drag your thousands of “unneeded” fragments off the inventory screen in about 2 minutes and press the “delete” button. Problem “solved.”

Goose.8195:

Unlike a sinking ship you can simply drag your thousands of “unneeded” fragments off the inventory screen in about 2 minutes and press the “delete” button. Problem “solved.”

Except that I won’t ever do that until I actually have to do so, because games do get patched after problems are presented and NOT swept under the rug.

Where some people see no problem, many players do.

ANet made the decision to account bind these mats and give them no vendor monetary value. Before adding silly band-aid “fixes”, why not just do a little table editing in the loot database?

If ANet doesn’t want to go that route, the Mystic Toilet is another alternative.

Look, the time that was spent creating the SoG quest and item to get rid of ONE TYPE of excess crap item…could have been spent on adding a Mystic Forge RNG recipe so that we could dump four stacks of this stuff into it at a time.

SpyderBite.6274:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Gold: Those days when getting gold was tough are gone.

When was getting gold tough??

Back during the first days and months of GW2. The days when collecting silver was an accomplishment. Gold was exciting.

Azhure.1857:

SpyderBite.6274:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Gold: Those days when getting gold was tough are gone.

When was getting gold tough??

Back during the first days and months of GW2. The days when collecting silver was an accomplishment. Gold was exciting.

^ This. Gold was not always as easy to acquire. I can usually get 10 gold a day without even trying, not something I was doing on my first 80 two years ago.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Tomes of Knowledge / Scrolls of knowledge: these should be a very, very rare occurance. Instead you get ~10-20 every login. There is no such thing as leveling up any more or working to get to level 80. Just open that bank and spam click.

Don’t know what you are doing but other than the recent login rewards I got maybe 2 ToK in the two plus years I’ve played and maybe 5 SoK a week. So I think what activities you play really slewed your opinion on the drop rate.

Gold: Those days when getting gold was tough are gone. Just do a couple dungeons and your given 1-1.5g every path. I remember when the game first came out, and it felt so rewarding to buy that next piece of exotic gear. Now it’s like, “Cool, did a couple dungeons and got 50g. I may as well start another ascended armor set.” Gold has pretty much lost all value since it has lost its rewarding feel.

Well not everyone run dungeons everyday or every week … or ever.

Junk: (particularly living story junk): who doesn’t have 5 or 6 stacks of bandit crests, abundance of presents, oodles of snowflakes, mounds of key, piles of new snowfall runes, millions of silky sand, and an amass of winters day weapons all seemingly unwilling to be sold out of your inventory. I get it, ‘tis the season and all that, but it’s beyond ridiculous.

If you are a crafter, it’s great. So you’re not a crafter. Sell them, toss them into the forge. Make lemonade from your perceived lemons.

Dust, Fragments, and Dragonite: supposedly these are supposed to be “endgame” tier 6 materials, but they are hands-down the most abundant materials in the game. Even if each current drop yielded 0-1 instead of ~10 they would still be overflowing inventories everywhere.

Again, it’s because you are only/primarily doing activities that award those. As for excess, that’s why the devs created Mawdrey II. If you can be bothered to craft it. Of course I assume your character(s) are fully ascended out.

The conclusion I see is that your focused play style on the type of activities that maximize your gold earning rate has slewed your idea of what are “common”/worthless drops. For players who aren’t so single minded as you, they are most certainly not “common”.

I dont see 10-20 scrolls/tomes per login. I also dont see 50g for doing two dungeons . Perhaps OP you are just extremely lucky.

Consume all button. If they’re going to give us all this crap then at least let us use it without clicking 1 million times…

I throw all of my excess away because the alternatives are gold sinks in and of themselves. Recouping the gold spent crafting Mawdrey is laughable. I have mats I can’t sell to the merchant or trade with other players and they are materials I have zero use for? Cool! I throw them away. That in and of itself is poor design.

I agree with an above poster that there should be Mystic Forge recipes for things that are in abundance. A lot of the reason we get so much junk that is highly useful for a time is so they can sell us more bank and bag space. You hoard these items because you have to grind them and then when you no longer have a use for them you still see the items as necessary. They aren’t. Throw the stuff out when you don’t have a use for it anymore. I am not going to reward lazy design and buy more storage space when the items I am trying to store have no use to me. That’s ludicrous. If you want me to buy more storage space, make it worth my while.

Kuldebar.1897:

Azhure.1857:

SpyderBite.6274:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Gold: Those days when getting gold was tough are gone.

When was getting gold tough??

Back during the first days and months of GW2. The days when collecting silver was an accomplishment. Gold was exciting.

^ This. Gold was not always as easy to acquire. I can usually get 10 gold a day without even trying, not something I was doing on my first 80 two years ago.

Both of you areright on the money. pun intended