Guild Wars 2

Just a suggestion to change the “FINISH THEM!!” in Guild Wars 2.

1. Shorten animation and channel time of stomp by a large amount. Making stomp take something closer to 1 second instead of the current ~3secs.

2.Lower the amount of health players have while downed to roughly 1/3rd of what it is currently.

To be brief, I love the idea of down state and what it does for the game. It’s super fun and interesting and makes for some really interesting gameplay decisions; however, the game seems fast paced enough (the TTK is low enough) that a shorter stomp time and lower downed health seems viable. Currently when you get downed you feel way too tanky. I honestly feel like I have way more health when I’m downed then when I’m alive. Although this may not be true, the fact that I feel tanky while I’m bleeding on the floor about to die doesn’t really feel right.

Either way this is just a suggestion, I remember you guys changing the down state health back in the day, and then promptly changed it back due to it making no one ever stomped, they would only dps downed players. Lowering the channel time on stomp at the same time would probably alleviate this issue.

Side note, changing the animation to look like and actual stomp would be really cool too. To compensate for the short cast, a shorter animation would be needed anyways. It would also make sense to stomp on a persons face to finish them. The bright orb thing is kinda weird and doesn’t make much sense either. If it does make sense it is never explained why.

Edit: Also note, this would also have to lower the time it would take to resurrect someone.

tl;dr Suggestion to shorten stomp channel time and health in down state

Bad idea, the amount of play and counterplay that revolves around down’d players is very important to PvP.

Coulter.2315:

Bad idea, the amount of play and counterplay that revolves around down’d players is very important to PvP.

Oh I agree completely, but the same amount of “play and counterplay” can exist within that shorter time. The plays may be different, but I feel it would be better overall. Although I have no real proof of that, besides the Gears of War series which is almost entirely unrelated to Guild Wars 2 so it’s a terrible reference.

The thing is I’m certain they have tested this before. Most likely before the game even came out, like in beta and stuff. Thing is the game has changed a lot, and is about to change much more. This is kinda why I brought this up now. Although I would have gladly loved to see these changes tested on live even in the current version of the game.

Mind you this would also mean it would take shorter to resurrect someone from the down state.

They should just remove the rally system altogether. It is broken.

ChoChoBo.6503:

They should just remove the rally system altogether. It is broken.

How so?

The bright orb is “magic” and I like the effect.

I also like the current animations and feel they are just right – gives a chance for ressing/interrupting and so on…

ChoChoBo.6503:

They should just remove the rally system altogether. It is broken.

I disagree. If you would like to discuss why you think it’s broken and how that can be fixed then you’re in the right place though. As I said i actually enjoy the mechanic though and like the play/counterplay it brings to the game.

Curunen.8729:

The bright orb is “magic” and I like the effect.

I also like the current animations and feel they are just right – gives a chance for ressing/interrupting and so on…

Why would a shorter cast on stomp and rez change that? Currently with long cast time’s like on most heals, you can interrupt on reaction. Giving a stomp a similar cast as heal seems reasonable from my perspective.

Disagree with OP and here’s why.

A lot of you are just thinking about the ress time of the downed player, what about utility/elite skills that revive them? They would need shorter cast times too.
Downed state abilities would need a rework to add counter play to it too, some need a rework anyway. Reducing the stomp cast time would be chaos and you may aswell remove downed state from the game.

Haleydawn.3764:

Disagree with OP and here’s why.

A lot of you are just thinking about the ress time of the downed player, what about utility/elite skills that revive them? They would need shorter cast times too.
Downed state abilities would need a rework to add counter play to it too, some need a rework anyway. Reducing the stomp cast time would be chaos and you may aswell remove downed state from the game.

Realistically it’s not a huge amount of balance. Although it’s true a lot of things that center around the down state would have to be rebalanced, these sweeping balance changes to a single mechanic is totally something Anet would do, have done, and are doing.

Edit: In response to your suggestion to just remove it, that seems counter to your argument. As removing it would mean rebalancing or removing all of those things you mentioned. Rebalancing a shorter stomp would probably be just as difficult as removing it entirely.

Agree wholeheartedly. Making the downed state / rally system more “clutch” would certainly help the flow of PvP. Right now, combat on your feet is incredibly fast-paced and high-octane. But when downed-state stuff starts happening… combat slows to a crawl.

Not to mention the amount of frustration that takes place when you’ve downed 2 people solo— how many interrupts, teleports, stealths, etc. you have to get through to finish off two people who are just laying on the ground and bleeding out. It’s just such a long process. Doesn’t match the pace of normal combat. Especially in those awkward team situations when everyone is mashing their swords into one person’s face, desperately trying to cleave them down while their teammates are by their side stroking their leg as their health bar bounces back and forth. A quick pickup or a swift finish would be much more smooth, IMO.

TheDuck.4526:

Agree wholeheartedly. Making the downed state / rally system more “clutch” would certainly help the flow of PvP. Right now, combat on your feet is incredibly fast-paced and high-octane. But when downed-state stuff starts happening… combat slows to a crawl.

Not to mention the amount of frustration that takes place when you’ve downed 2 people solo— how many interrupts, teleports, stealths, etc. you have to get through to finish off two people who are just laying on the ground and bleeding out. It’s just such a long process. Doesn’t match the pace of normal combat. Especially in those awkward team situations when everyone is mashing their swords into one person’s face, desperately trying to cleave them down while their teammates are by their side stroking their leg as their health bar bounces back and forth. A quick pickup or a swift finish would be much more smooth, IMO.

Couldn’t have worded it better myself. Excellent points and exactly what I mean. Down state does not feel like it matches the pace of the rest of the combat in gw2.

Arkitech.9158:

Haleydawn.3764:

Disagree with OP and here’s why.

A lot of you are just thinking about the ress time of the downed player, what about utility/elite skills that revive them? They would need shorter cast times too.
Downed state abilities would need a rework to add counter play to it too, some need a rework anyway. Reducing the stomp cast time would be chaos and you may aswell remove downed state from the game

Edit: In response to your suggestion to just remove it, that seems counter to your argument. As removing it would mean rebalancing or removing all of those things you mentioned. Rebalancing a shorter stomp would probably be just as difficult as removing it entirely.

That was sarcasm and clearly so in how I wrote it.

The whole point of downed state is supposed to be slow, you’re bleeding out needing help, 3 seconds for a stomp is not much really, you can still stomp people in those 3 seconds, reducing it makes it meaningless.

Haleydawn.3764:

Arkitech.9158:

Haleydawn.3764:

Disagree with OP and here’s why.

A lot of you are just thinking about the ress time of the downed player, what about utility/elite skills that revive them? They would need shorter cast times too.
Downed state abilities would need a rework to add counter play to it too, some need a rework anyway. Reducing the stomp cast time would be chaos and you may aswell remove downed state from the game

Edit: In response to your suggestion to just remove it, that seems counter to your argument. As removing it would mean rebalancing or removing all of those things you mentioned. Rebalancing a shorter stomp would probably be just as difficult as removing it entirely.

That was sarcasm and clearly so in how I wrote it.

The whole point of downed state is supposed to be slow, you’re bleeding out needing help, 3 seconds for a stomp is not much really, you can still stomp people in those 3 seconds, reducing it makes it meaningless.

You see, I hear you saying that it’s pointless, but I don’t hear any reasoning behind it. I’ve already stated several reasons why it wouldn’t be pointless. For the sake on convenience I will restate them. Most healing skills, which have very obvious and considerably long animations, can be interrupted on reaction. A shorter stomp with a similar cast and animation would make sense in terms of counterplay and usefulness, if, everything else involving down state is balanced around it(down state health, resurrection utilities, down state abilities, etc.).
The amount of play and counterplay remains roughly the same, although to be truly sure it would have to be tested. The difference is you just have to do the play faster, which would make sense in gw2 seeing as everything in gw2 is faster.

3 seconds is a long time in this game.
People live and die in 3 seconds in Guild Wars 2.

Do you really believe that there is very little difference between a 1sec cast and a 3sec cast??

In the space of 3sec trying to stop the stomp you can strip stab and rupt, perform a stealth blast combo, burst the stomper, run in and save the down’d person from offpoint.

If you’re stomping you need to burn CDs to cover you for the 3secs, perform teleport/los moves to be safe, keep poison up and CC their allies, interupt res banners etc.

All this gameplay BECAUSE its a long time, dropping it to 1sec means all of this gets removed. Not good for the game, bad idea.

Coulter.2315:

Do you really believe that there is very little difference between a 1sec cast and a 3sec cast??

In the space of 3sec trying to stop the stomp you can strip stab and rupt, perform a stealth blast combo, burst the stomper, run in and save the down’d person from offpoint.

If you’re stomping you need to burn CDs to cover you for the 3secs, perform teleport/los moves to be safe, keep poison up and CC their allies, interupt res banners etc.

All this gameplay BECAUSE its a long time, dropping it to 1sec means all of this gets removed. Not good for the game, bad idea.

See what I’m saying is I can do all those things to a shorter cast time (i.e heal) and so can many other players. All of those mechanics would still be present.

Could possibly just remove the invuln time when you go down. That could be the only reason people are so tanky when they go down. Doesn’t make much sense to have invuln while you fall to the ground either.

ok, with the way traits have been changed the time to kill someone in down state is WAY faster, good thing IMO. And now Quickness is so prevalent and everywhere faster stomps happen all the time. I’m really enjoying this. Super fun. IMO this further reinforces my theory that spending less time in the down state is good for the game.

I do love when people ask for something to change with out thinking about all the changes to other skills. Lower the health of a downed will mean its quicker to just finish them by DPSing them down over stomping them. Think about skills that stealth you. Thief’s do this enough already and can finish a stomp before they come out of stealth. Rangers can do this too, but not as good as a thief. So if you want to balance things out, maybe ANet should take away the ability to stomp when stealthed or invulnerable or if you have stability.

Second thought, it’s not broken, so lets not “fix it”. There’s been enough of that already.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I do love when people ask for something to change with out thinking about all the changes to other skills. Lower the health of a downed will mean its quicker to just finish them by DPSing them down over stomping them. Think about skills that stealth you. Thief’s do this enough already and can finish a stomp before they come out of stealth. Rangers can do this too, but not as good as a thief. So if you want to balance things out, maybe ANet should take away the ability to stomp when stealthed or invulnerable or if you have stability.

Second thought, it’s not broken, so lets not “fix it”. There’s been enough of that already.

Kinda shows that you didn’t read anything I suggested. My proposal was to lower the downed state health AND speed up the stomp animation to compensate. But sure, criticize the suggestion without even seeing what it is. Oh, and btw, they actually did do what I suggested. As I said, with the most recent changes, quickness is everywhere. Stomps are faster, and everyone does more damage making people die in down state faster from cleave. And the game is more fun for it.

tl;dr I do love when people assume someone else hasn’t thought a suggestion through, especially when the entire thread is literally showing them thinking everything through.

Arkitech.9158:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I do love when people ask for something to change with out thinking about all the changes to other skills. Lower the health of a downed will mean its quicker to just finish them by DPSing them down over stomping them. Think about skills that stealth you. Thief’s do this enough already and can finish a stomp before they come out of stealth. Rangers can do this too, but not as good as a thief. So if you want to balance things out, maybe ANet should take away the ability to stomp when stealthed or invulnerable or if you have stability.

Second thought, it’s not broken, so lets not “fix it”. There’s been enough of that already.

Kinda shows that you didn’t read anything I suggested. My proposal was to lower the downed state health AND speed up the stomp animation to compensate. But sure, criticize the suggestion without even seeing what it is. Oh, and btw, they actually did do what I suggested. As I said, with the most recent changes, quickness is everywhere. Stomps are faster, and everyone does more damage making people die in down state faster from cleave. And the game is more fun for it.

tl;dr I do love when people assume someone else hasn’t thought a suggestion through, especially when the entire thread is literally showing them thinking everything through.

I did read your post, all of it. Its been quicker to DPS some classes than stomp them even before the patch. Some builds make you still a bit tanky when downed, and you can still rez people faster than people can be dpsed down or stomped. Maybe play more sPvP and you’d know this. Rather than making some half kitten suggestion.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Arkitech.9158:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I do love when people ask for something to change with out thinking about all the changes to other skills. Lower the health of a downed will mean its quicker to just finish them by DPSing them down over stomping them. Think about skills that stealth you. Thief’s do this enough already and can finish a stomp before they come out of stealth. Rangers can do this too, but not as good as a thief. So if you want to balance things out, maybe ANet should take away the ability to stomp when stealthed or invulnerable or if you have stability.

Second thought, it’s not broken, so lets not “fix it”. There’s been enough of that already.

Kinda shows that you didn’t read anything I suggested. My proposal was to lower the downed state health AND speed up the stomp animation to compensate. But sure, criticize the suggestion without even seeing what it is. Oh, and btw, they actually did do what I suggested. As I said, with the most recent changes, quickness is everywhere. Stomps are faster, and everyone does more damage making people die in down state faster from cleave. And the game is more fun for it.

tl;dr I do love when people assume someone else hasn’t thought a suggestion through, especially when the entire thread is literally showing them thinking everything through.

I did read your post, all of it. Its been quicker to DPS some classes than stomp them even before the patch. Some builds make you still a bit tanky when downed, and you can still rez people faster than people can be dpsed down or stomped. Maybe play more sPvP and you’d know this. Rather than making some half kitten suggestion.

I don’t know what point you are trying to make. If you have read the post you would know that we’ve gone over many utilities involving the down state and how compensation would be completely doable. The only other point I made was that due to the current trait changes increasing damage output considerably, and increasing the prevalence of quickness, my suggestion to lower health in the down state and increase the speed that you stomp have both somewhat came true. Also that I personally find this more fun.

If you’re saying my suggestion is a bad one, I’m sorry you feel that way, and I guess we just disagree. If you are saying my suggestion is not well thought out, please, test me. What have I not thought of?

Remind me again what incentive even exists to stomp a player?

Because it is risky, takes too long and almost always beneficial to let them bleed out as long as possible

So long as stealth stomps are removed idc either way.

But as the above poster stated, stomping is more a liability than worth, the only time to do it is to rally a teammate.