Guild Wars 2

Hi Team,

I love the work you guys do, and I am very excited for these upcoming changes in the April Feature Pack (especially the wardrobe – I’m going to be spending a lot of time with that one)!

I like that there will no longer be any cost to resetting traits – it makes things more flexible for players, especially new ones, and people can try out different things without being punished for it.
However I was discussing this change with a friend, and she brought up a valid point. Being able to reset traits at a whim anywhere on the map may have a negative effect on the online community.

If someone wants to join a group in a dungeon, it will now be easier to request others to alter their traits so that the character works best with their group. Not inherently terrible, just inconvenient.
But if we think about how this will grow culturally, it will soon become expected to just ‘alter your traits’ for particular events (e.g. Tequatl, Wurm) regardless of whether you want to or not – and that could lead to flaming or exclusion (similar to how rangers are currently treated in dungeons).
I have a hard time enough as it is remembering my current trait set, let alone trying to swap between three separate ones on the fly. I don’t want to have to be told how I must change my traits if I want to be of any use.

While not a huge set back, I think at least limiting trait resets to major cities will help counter this sort of culture. It’s inconvenient, yes, but it does not punish you in the same way that spending gold would.
EDIT: There have been good counters for this. My question now is how can we counter the possible toxic communication this new feature could foster?

I am grateful that it does not cost anymore, and I will certainly have fun testing and trying out new things thanks to this change!

tl;dr – I am concerned people will start trying to impose certain forms of play on others due to the upcoming ease of altering traits

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Black Dragon.1504:

If someone wants to join a group in a dungeon, it will now be easier to request others to alter their traits so that the character works best with their group. Not inherently terrible, just inconvenient.

Yeah, how dare people expect us to contribute meaningfully to group play when joining their groups.

This is probably one of the more reasoned concerns about anything in the features pack. Hopefully people don’t just dismiss it based on the thread title and read what you posted.

Anyway, i’ll be honest this never occured to me. I also dont’ really pug so i’m not really knowledgeable about trends but i do wonder how likely it is that people will demand others to retrait.

People ofc still won’t see your traits. The only time they would is if you’re using a trait like Spotter, Empower Allies or Strength in Numbers where it results in a buff for your team that everyone can see. Not to mention that this could occur now. There is afterall nothing stopping someone from leaving a dungeon to retrait. Tbh, i think you’d just be more likely to be kicked outright then someone demanding you to change your traits.

Btw, it wasn’t the gold cost that i disliked it was having to go to a specific npc to change my traits. I’m very much in favour of being able to change them anywhere.

The same players would demand this from team members, would be the same players who would kick anyone below “their” threshold of skill – which wouldn’t be the people you’d be teaming with any way.

I understand totally your concerns, but it wont be any more of a problem than it is now

The porblem is more along the way of “imposing” a certain build on someone just because they believe it will be “better” then the one the person is allready using.
It allows for more pressure to get someone into the supposed “better” meta, just because it is much easier now.

Yes, i can certainly see how this will be abused. There is no question about that, if you just take a look at the LFG tool.
All i see there is either selling dungeons or asking for a certain zerker cough set up and experience.

It is rather rare to see someone asking for a “normal” group there.

Randulf.7614:

The same players would demand this from team members, would be the same players who would kick anyone below “their” threshold of skill – which wouldn’t be the people you’d be teaming with any way.

I understand totally your concerns, but it wont be any more of a problem than it is now

Exactly.

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

I think in the long run it is better that we can trait wherever. Why? I think ArenaNet can make more interesting instances going forward and new permanent zones and also LS content because they can greatly vary the types of enemies we encounter so that we would want to change up our builds mid-dungeon for example in order to better negotiate a totally different encounter from the one we were previously at. That to me is better than having them only in major cities. Also, don’t group with people like that. Group with like-minded people.

Jaken.6801:

The porblem is more along the way of “imposing” a certain build on someone just because they believe it will be “better” then the one the person is allready using.
It allows for more pressure to get someone into the supposed “better” meta, just because it is much easier now.

Yes, i can certainly see how this will be abused. There is no question about that, if you just take a look at the LFG tool.
All i see there is either selling dungeons or asking for a certain zerker cough set up and experience.

It is rather rare to see someone asking for a “normal” group there.

There is a reason for that. It’s because the “regular” groups fill so fast they don’t last long on the lfg tool. The zerk groups who kick until they find the right party take longer to fill. You obviously are another person who doesn’t run meta but still doesn’t want to be excluded from the groups who do. If you don’t believe me, try making a group of your own for once and see how fast it fills with no restrictions. I have NEVER had a problem finding a group within 2 minutes.

You people be crazy…..

People already see problems even before they happens….does only GW2 community have this oracles??NO?

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

All you, or anyone else for that matter, has to do is not join those groups. Problem solved. It’s the same “issue” people seem to have with zerk groups. The answer there is the same, don’t join those groups. I really have a hard time believing anyone has a hard time finding a group for dungeon runs. I can throw up a lfg with no restrictions and the party fills in minutes. Seems like the problem lies more with the individual players who apparently can’t read and join the wrong groups all the time.

only allowing traiting in cities will have no affect on OP’s issue. The demands will still be there. Only under the OP’s system, it will take players that don’t have the required traits more time to get them. This will discourage new players from joining groups. I think Anet has the right idea.

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

DarcShriek.5829:

only allowing traiting in cities will have no affect on OP’s issue. The demands will still be there. Only under the OP’s system, it will take players that don’t have the required traits more time to get them. This will discourage new players from joining groups. I think Anet has the right idea.

Touche – that is a valid point.

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Reminds me… seeing as traits will be unlockable being told to change your traits in a dungeon may result in further embarassment if you’ve not unlocked the trait

sinzer.4018:

Reminds me… seeing as traits will be unlockable being told to change your traits in a dungeon may result in further embarassment if you’ve not unlocked the trait

Only for brand new characters. All existing characters will have their respective traits unlocked already.

sinzer.4018:

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

Elitists foster elitist tendencies, and no matter what you do, those people and tendencies will always exist. There is literally nothing you can do to stop them or blunt them.

The only thing you can do is ignore them. Don’t play with them, don’t try to play with them. Find those that fit your ideal and let them do their own thing away from you.

I can see this as a concern but my counter would be:

Dugeons: if people are asking or demanding you to re-trait for “their” benefit, they aren’t worth partying with. 9/10 they will probably be the cause as to why the dungeon fails to begin with because they have no idea what makes a decent group.

WvW: This already happens. Every time a group or commander is vocal about certain classes carrying certain weapons or using certain builds etc.. These groups tend to wipe continuously due to again, not knowing what makes for a decent group vs what your facing. Advice, leave the map for a different map until either that commander de-tags or leave the map themselves.

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

Who cares anyway if some people are “elitist’s”? There will always be people who aren’t fun to play. There is absolutely no way to stop people from being that way no matter how hard you may try. The solution to dealing with elitist people has always been the same: Join a different group. If people would simply do that, we wouldn’t have many of these problems people complain about.

As far as gear checking is concerned, I wish they would implement that feature. It’s the only way for ME to play the way I want. It would be nice to be able to know for sure that I was in a zerk only group anytime I want to be. Then I can play the way I want, just like the rest of you want to do. It could be as simple as putting up a post and the only way you can join is if your in full zerk. No kicking, no QQing since you wouldn’t even be able to join without the gear the party requires.

Black Dragon.1504:

(…)I have a hard time enough as it is remembering my current trait set(…)

That’s because changing traits was a pain and you settle for something that was usable and never looked at the panel again.

How do you know there isn’t something better for you on your professions?

Not saying a group should force you on a build, but don’t ask the devs to limit the retrait just on the major cities, you’ll see you can have a lot of fun experimenting before you get to the conclusion the meta builds are meta for a reason

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Yeah i don;t think it’d have much of an effect on its own. If it were paired with other systems it’d be a ball ache.

I like your attitude btw. I’m personally more concerned with reasons why someone chose particular trait set up. I don’t take “it’s the meta” as sufficient

You would be kicked anyway for not wearing zerkers. Teams that want to play efficiently will be looking for like minded individuals and you won’t be welcome. Teams that will not expect you to run a meta build won’t even ask you about it.

And why exactly would you even attempt the wurm if you are not running a good build?

cranked.3812:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

Who cares anyway if some people are “elitist’s”? There will always be people who aren’t fun to play. There is absolutely no way to stop people from being that way no matter how hard you may try. The solution to dealing with elitist people has always been the same: Join a different group. If people would simply do that, we wouldn’t have many of these problems people complain about.

I don’t think that’s enough. You could say the solution to any toxic behaviour is to ignore it but that’s not enough. You’re not going to fight racism by ignoring it. With elitists you should run in a different group and call them out on it. We need a friendly playerbase in order to help retain players.

cranked.3812:

As far as gear checking is concerned, I wish they would implement that feature. It’s the only way for ME to play the way I want. It would be nice to be able to know for sure that I was in a zerk only group anytime I want to be. Then I can play the way I want, just like the rest of you want to do. It could be as simple as putting up a post and the only way you can join is if your in full zerk. No kicking, no QQing since you wouldn’t even be able to join without the gear the party requires.

How would an inspect feature result in no kicks? You’d kick everyone you inspected who didn’t have the desired gear/traits.

Only way it’d affect me is i wouldn’t have to link my gear everytime someone wants to know what the skin is :p

Black Dragon.1504:

I have a hard time enough as it is remembering my current trait set, let alone trying to swap between three separate ones on the fly.

Simple solution = bring back savable build templates

I can understand the OP’s concern, but people already kick players from groups if they’re not running the meta. There still are, and still will be, groups who don’t really care what builds you’re running as long as you’re contributing and stuff is getting done in a reasonable time. (I for one never enforce builds or gearchecks for dungeon/Fractal runs. I’m more concerned if people know what to do, and if not, I can teach them.)

I do hope that ANet had the foresight to allow us to save/load build templates though. Manually changing your traits each and every time you want to play a different role would get annoying really fast. I don’t want to have to spend 5 mins changing my Ele’s build every time I transition from open world to dungeons to WvW.

Izaya.2906:

Black Dragon.1504:

If someone wants to join a group in a dungeon, it will now be easier to request others to alter their traits so that the character works best with their group. Not inherently terrible, just inconvenient.

Yeah, how dare people expect us to contribute meaningfully to group play when joining their groups.

I’d strongly sympathise with you if this game actually had a chance to fail anything ever.

Pugging, particularly via an LFG tool, could be seen as the root of all toxic behavior in MMO group content. If players had to find their own groups from people on their friends list, then everyone would be playing with people they agree with. Maybe we should remove the LFG tool and prohibit grouping with anyone not on one’s friend list.

See how that works? Denying or removing features is not the cure for player behavior.

sinzer.4018:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Yeah i don;t think it’d have much of an effect on its own. If it were paired with other systems it’d be a ball ache.

I like your attitude btw. I’m personally more concerned with reasons why someone chose particular trait set up. I don’t take “it’s the meta” as sufficient

It’s the same reason my guardian wont run anything other than PVT. Especially when I’m running a dungeon for the first time. PVT means I’m going to live longer during mistakes or late actions. Take lupi in arah for example. He’s got an attack that wall of reflection CAN work against, often to spectacular results. I’ve fought lupi a grand total of 0 times before I was invited on that run. I have no clue what his tells are, and still dont, yet I was willing to walk into that aoe circle and be ready to drop WoR on that skill of his. I’m looking at 20k hp on my guardian, and I’m losing roughly half that by the time I can drop the wall. If I was zerker, I’d be eating dirt.

In fact, there was a point in that fight I was the only one not downed and had to tank lupi while picking people up. I dare anyone in zerker to do that.

I make it a point to avoid people that want x build for x dungeon path as much as possible. In fact, I try to find people that just want to do them for fun and maybe even try goofy things to get through the dungeon. For me that’s more fun than speed runs for the loots.

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Yeah i don;t think it’d have much of an effect on its own. If it were paired with other systems it’d be a ball ache.

I like your attitude btw. I’m personally more concerned with reasons why someone chose particular trait set up. I don’t take “it’s the meta” as sufficient

It’s the same reason my guardian wont run anything other than PVT. Especially when I’m running a dungeon for the first time. PVT means I’m going to live longer during mistakes or late actions. Take lupi in arah for example. He’s got an attack that wall of reflection CAN work against, often to spectacular results. I’ve fought lupi a grand total of 0 times before I was invited on that run. I have no clue what his tells are, and still dont, yet I was willing to walk into that aoe circle and be ready to drop WoR on that skill of his. I’m looking at 20k hp on my guardian, and I’m losing roughly half that by the time I can drop the wall. If I was zerker, I’d be eating dirt.

In fact, there was a point in that fight I was the only one not downed and had to tank lupi while picking people up. I dare anyone in zerker to do that.

Do it all the time. Its calling dodging. Lupi has tells that are pretty obvious. I would hate to point out if you hadn’t been running PVT that those zerkers you picked up might not have been down in the first place. If you are in doubt you can go to youtube and search for Lupi Solo and you will see that soloing him isn’t exactly difficult.

Edit: Even saved you the trouble of doing the search. Enjoy

Talyn.3295:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Yeah i don;t think it’d have much of an effect on its own. If it were paired with other systems it’d be a ball ache.

I like your attitude btw. I’m personally more concerned with reasons why someone chose particular trait set up. I don’t take “it’s the meta” as sufficient

It’s the same reason my guardian wont run anything other than PVT. Especially when I’m running a dungeon for the first time. PVT means I’m going to live longer during mistakes or late actions. Take lupi in arah for example. He’s got an attack that wall of reflection CAN work against, often to spectacular results. I’ve fought lupi a grand total of 0 times before I was invited on that run. I have no clue what his tells are, and still dont, yet I was willing to walk into that aoe circle and be ready to drop WoR on that skill of his. I’m looking at 20k hp on my guardian, and I’m losing roughly half that by the time I can drop the wall. If I was zerker, I’d be eating dirt.

In fact, there was a point in that fight I was the only one not downed and had to tank lupi while picking people up. I dare anyone in zerker to do that.

Do it all the time. Its calling dodging. Lupi has tells that are pretty obvious. I would hate to point out if you hand’t been running PVT that those zerkers you picked up might not have been down in the first place. If you are in doubt you can go to youtube and search for Lupi Solo and you will see that soloing him isn’t exactly difficult

Seems you missed the part where I said it was the first time I’d even ran the dungeon, nor did I have the time to bother looking that kitten up in the middle of a run. Kthxbai Mr. Elitist.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Talyn.3295:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Yeah i don;t think it’d have much of an effect on its own. If it were paired with other systems it’d be a ball ache.

I like your attitude btw. I’m personally more concerned with reasons why someone chose particular trait set up. I don’t take “it’s the meta” as sufficient

It’s the same reason my guardian wont run anything other than PVT. Especially when I’m running a dungeon for the first time. PVT means I’m going to live longer during mistakes or late actions. Take lupi in arah for example. He’s got an attack that wall of reflection CAN work against, often to spectacular results. I’ve fought lupi a grand total of 0 times before I was invited on that run. I have no clue what his tells are, and still dont, yet I was willing to walk into that aoe circle and be ready to drop WoR on that skill of his. I’m looking at 20k hp on my guardian, and I’m losing roughly half that by the time I can drop the wall. If I was zerker, I’d be eating dirt.

In fact, there was a point in that fight I was the only one not downed and had to tank lupi while picking people up. I dare anyone in zerker to do that.

Do it all the time. Its calling dodging. Lupi has tells that are pretty obvious. I would hate to point out if you hand’t been running PVT that those zerkers you picked up might not have been down in the first place. If you are in doubt you can go to youtube and search for Lupi Solo and you will see that soloing him isn’t exactly difficult

Seems you missed the part where I said it was the first time I’d even ran the dungeon, nor did I have the time to bother looking that kitten up in the middle of a run. Kthxbai Mr. Elitist.

No, I didn’t miss that part at all. You said you challenged a zerker to Run in on the first time. The very first time I ran Arah I was a zerker guardian, my group kill him just fine. If someone does there research or takes the time to learn about a dungeon before hand you can see the attack etc. But I guess its so much easier to let the group carry you then to actually do your home work. Call me an Elite if ya like, its hardly an insult.

If changing your build is what you’re concerned about OP I have some bad news. These changes have been implemented specifically so people can start changing up their builds and play style.

This is about going out of your comfort zone and learning new things.
If you don’t want to change – that is your choice – but the rest of the player base will leave you behind and not take you on runs.
Why should people carry an inflexible person that doesn’t spec to be better at doing the content at hand then a player that’s flexible and willing to learn?
The answer : they shouldn’t.

This update gives us adaptability. If you can’t handle your traits I suggest screen caps to save your various builds.

Also trait templates would be great.

I understand your point, I’ve met some pretty annoying people who would definitely demand you to change your traits if you want to participate in a dungeon run. I usually just make my own group for anyone who wants to join, it’s a lot easier&stress free(except if you happen to meet some new players and they keep rushing forward without listening).

I think a good solution would be the ability to SAVE your trait settings. I mean that’s what they have in TF2, you can have 4 different sets saved at a time. I don’t think there are any negative sides to this neither, so I would love if anet implemented that sort of thing.

wha wha whaaaat? so you refuse to change traits, when it literally costs nothing, and will help your team? are you really that lazy?

Talyn.3295:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sinzer.4018:

cranked.3812:

Black Dragon.1504:

cranked.3812:

What are you talking about?

First off, don’t join those groups of players who ask you to change traits. If you are excluded from a group, make your own and have fun playing the way YOU want, with like-minded individuals.

Secondly, making it only work in major cities partially defeats the purpose of making it doable anywhere in the world since you would have to go to a place that the trainers were in in the first place. The only thing that would change at that point is the small cost associated with the reset would go away. This also would not stop people from “forcing” you to go to a major city to change stats to play with them.

Lastly, I still don’t understand why people like you simply cannot live with being excluded from some groups even when it’s just as easy to make your own group and let others play the way THEY want.

Don’t worry – I don’t plan to join a group of people like that. It’s not myself I am concerned about (I am happy to ignore those kinds of people), it’s the effect on the community that my concerns lie.

But I know my ‘solution’ is hardly solid (just a minor inconvenience if that) – but if anyone has any other suggestions then that would be great.

What effect on the community?

It can help foster elitist tendencies. It’s why we don’t have an inspect feature. I don’t think itd have much of an effect in that regard though.

It wont. There’s no way to share what traits you’ve got other than you informing them. If they demand xyz traits, fiddle around for 5 minutes, and tell them you changed your stats when you really didnt. Most of the time they wouldnt even be able to tell. A large majority of people just dont care about changing their stats. If you dont like the fact I run 30/25/0/5/10 on my ele, go trip on a pile of crap and land face first into a puddle of chunky vomit. I’ll change it when I kitten well want to.

Yeah i don;t think it’d have much of an effect on its own. If it were paired with other systems it’d be a ball ache.

I like your attitude btw. I’m personally more concerned with reasons why someone chose particular trait set up. I don’t take “it’s the meta” as sufficient

It’s the same reason my guardian wont run anything other than PVT. Especially when I’m running a dungeon for the first time. PVT means I’m going to live longer during mistakes or late actions. Take lupi in arah for example. He’s got an attack that wall of reflection CAN work against, often to spectacular results. I’ve fought lupi a grand total of 0 times before I was invited on that run. I have no clue what his tells are, and still dont, yet I was willing to walk into that aoe circle and be ready to drop WoR on that skill of his. I’m looking at 20k hp on my guardian, and I’m losing roughly half that by the time I can drop the wall. If I was zerker, I’d be eating dirt.

In fact, there was a point in that fight I was the only one not downed and had to tank lupi while picking people up. I dare anyone in zerker to do that.

Do it all the time. Its calling dodging. Lupi has tells that are pretty obvious. I would hate to point out if you hadn’t been running PVT that those zerkers you picked up might not have been down in the first place. If you are in doubt you can go to youtube and search for Lupi Solo and you will see that soloing him isn’t exactly difficult.

Edit: Even saved you the trouble of doing the search. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFMNAX6iFNc

I think you’re wrong that Aiden being in PVT is the reason the zerkers were downed. 4 zerkers 1 PVT? Yeah no, the PVT player isn’t going to be that much of a detriment. As you point out, Lupi is soloable. Those zerkers got downed because of their own incompetence.

If anything it encourages being helpful to newbies about how to build their character because the new player can try the traits being recommended in the same dungeon. Picking your first traits is always a daunting process for a newbie especially if you don’t use outside resources. This would allow veterans the chance to improve newer player builds without slowing down a dungeon experience for the rest of the party.

Of course there will probably be conflict between player who stubbornly refuse to change their build and people who demand you run whatever’s in the meta exclusively but I don’t that’s any different then now and you can’t always not to choose to party with such people and you really should.

I like the convenience in it. Being a total noob now you can easily redo your traits without leaving a dungeon or being kicked. As long as the people RECOMMEND a trait change and aren’t kittens about it.

GW1 worked the same way (way to go backwards not including this from the beginning, ANet), and it wasn’t really an issue. Worst I recall is stuff like demanding that you take a revive skill, and that people generally attempt to fit particular roles so you don’t just get wiped out (IE, someone needs to be able to heal, someone needs lots of AoE, someone needs to spike down big enemies, etc).
This game doesn’t even rely on roles though, and everyone can innately revive each other.

I find a lot of “Elite” players funny. I joined a 49 fractal group last night that failed once on getting the wisps in swamp…immediately a guy quit out saying the whole group sucks…and we should all learn fractals before coming back in. We put up a new LFG and then we got another new player…succeeded on the wisps on the very next attempt, and had a nearly flawless run all the way through…doing mossman, aetherblades, thaumanova and finally Mai Trin with no wipes or issues at all…

…I wonder how MR Elite did on his next group…we were better without him.

There are "Elite"s who are idiots and will do nothing but grief, and there are “Elites” who simply play the game and don’t complain about it when there is a slight setback or someone not running the meta.

Even did a speed run in AC which was advertised as such “level 80’s only, experienced, speed run”…about 1/2 way through we realized that one of our group had obviously never done the dungeon before. Rather than kicking…we explained the rest of the dungeon and took a pause at each section to explain what was coming next. It was still a fast run…though not as fast as everyone knowing….but at least I think we gained another player now that knows what he is doing for next time.

My point is that the “idiot Elites” will find any excuse if something doesnt go right. I had a guy yell at me for not wearing and wielding ascendeds on a speed run…he didn’t realize that I hate the ascended looks and had re-skinned everything….I linked my gear…he quickly shut up…especially when I solo’d the next boss when he and the rest of the party went down (and I wear zerker).

I can handle being told to switch to a certain build for a dungeon run. My concern is that with the ability to reset traits ANYWHERE, people are going to be asking to switch the entire team’s stat-distribution and build before every specific BOSS fight just to eke out a little more of an advantage.

Instead of “LF1M must be X build”, it’ll be “What kind noob are you? You didn’t research the three different builds and gear sets you need to counter the specific mechanics of each of the bosses in this run?”

The trait-reset can stay free, but it should really be limited to within towns, or at least NOT inside dungeons.

Bad Decision Dino.1386:

I can handle being told to switch to a certain build for a dungeon run. My concern is that with the ability to reset traits ANYWHERE, people are going to be asking to switch the entire team’s stat-distribution and build before every specific BOSS fight just to eke out a little more of an advantage.

Instead of “LF1M must be X build”, it’ll be “What kind noob are you? You didn’t research the three different builds and gear sets you need to counter the specific mechanics of each of the bosses in this run?”

The trait-reset can stay free, but it should really be limited to within towns, or at least NOT inside dungeons.

LOL, I actually do this to the minor extent already allowed (switching my pull-down traits) and switching my skills depending on the fight. It really does make a difference…I’ve tried explaining this to guildmates and the ones who have tried it are usually amazed at what just little tweaks can make for each fight…so I am excited to be able to make big tweaks in between fights.

I don’t expect that the trait reset fee has ever stopped people who demand certain setups for inclusion in their party from doing so.

I don’t expect that removing the trait reset fee will cause people who don’t demand certain setups to start doing so.

We do need an option to save builds in templates so we can switch as needed. Hopefully with the move towards easy trait resetting, this is also in the works.

I don’t believe that will be so common since the meta for dungeon will always be a DPS build along with zerker armor, trinkets and weapons. It will be too much of a fuzz to keep track on what is most efficient on every boss in every dungeon so if there’s some, excuse my language, douchbags who wants someone who retraits on runs. Just don’t join the group.

Utilities are enough to keep a diverse and efficient run whether you should chose alot of condi removal, blast finishers etc. etc. and as of now I really don’t see alot of people moaning about me as a mesmer to have Mantra of Resolve instead of Null Field as a condi removal. And even so, utilities are far more easier to change than retrait to a whole other build.

No it’s not worth it. At least not in dungeons.