Guild Wars 2

I’m putting this in a thread all its own, so it can have some pointed discussion.

The idea:

• Move trait unlock down to level 20 and give 2 trait points at that level (can shuffle around other level-based unlocks, if necessary).
• Unlock one pre-chosen Blue trait for the “achievement” of reaching level 20. Furthermore, show a recommended path to choose (the one where the Blue trait is unlocked).
• Give 1 more trait point every 5 levels after to reach the total of 14 (25, 30, 35, 40, etc.)
• Slash trait book prices down to 1/4 of current price and remove skill point cost.

Breakdown of Why:

• Assuming that the current system is designed to introduce new players to the trait system at a reasonable pace, moving the first unlock down 10 levels shouldn’t harm this – you still pace them. It will also give alt-making veterans quicker access to trait use.
• Giving 2 points for the first unlock is so that players can use their first “blank” slot as soon as possible. This is intended as more of a nod toward veterans than a boon for newbies, but because one Blue trait gets automatically unlocked, even newbies will have a guaranteed slot they can fill with something, without needing to understand trait books or buy one of them.
• Slashing the prices on trait books and removing the skill cost is mostly intended to be a plus for veterans. They will already know how trait books work and will be the most likely to utilize them before level 80. The reason for removing the skill cost is that we shouldn’t have it conflicting with the purchase of skills, which are, arguably, equally useful.

The goal here is to compromise between the needs of veterans and the need for introducing newbies to how the game works in a way that is not overwhelming.

Let me know what you think, or any modifications, etc., that you think would improve this idea.

Thanks.

Any thoughts on this?

Yeah. I think it’s gonna get merged with the traits megathread. It’s a good idea, don’t get me wrong, but anet doesn’t have time for the trait system.

Guhracie.3419:

Yeah. I think it’s gonna get merged with the traits megathread. It’s a good idea, don’t get me wrong, but anet doesn’t have time for the trait system.

Thanks for your input.

The reason I want this separate from the mega thread is because that thread is full of a lot of general complaints/ideas. I want to give them something more meaty and focused to chew on – something that will (potentially) alleviate a lot of the complaints without undermining the spirit of the original changes.

If people are not interested in talking about such a thing, then I am out of luck, but I’m hoping that they are. I know that talking about it doesn’t mean that Anet will instantly do something; it’s more to give the complaints some practical direction.

With the recent blog regarding the new player levelling up changes, I think that they’ve probably done a lot of work trying to make each level up rewarding. If you move things from 6’s to 5’s, I think it’ll mess with that system.

That said, something like this ought to work just as well and ought to not have a side effect of making the level-up rewards out of sync with whatever they plan:

18 x1, 24 x1, 30 x1, 36 x1, 42 x1, 48 x1, 54 x1, 60 x1, 66 x1, 72 x1, 78 x2, 80 x2

Labjax.2465:

Guhracie.3419:

Yeah. I think it’s gonna get merged with the traits megathread. It’s a good idea, don’t get me wrong, but anet doesn’t have time for the trait system.

Thanks for your input.

The reason I want this separate from the mega thread is because that thread is full of a lot of general complaints/ideas. I want to give them something more meaty and focused to chew on – something that will (potentially) alleviate a lot of the complaints without undermining the spirit of the original changes.

If people are not interested in talking about such a thing, then I am out of luck, but I’m hoping that they are. I know that talking about it doesn’t mean that Anet will instantly do something; it’s more to give the complaints some practical direction.

I’m not trying to disregard your idea. You’re right. There are plenty of complaints in that thread. But there are also a lot of good ideas that are months old, and I’m pretty unhappy about that. It’s worthy of discussion, but I don’t have the energy for doing it, myself, and given how merge-happy they’ve been with threads of this sort, I really think it’s unlikely to stand alone for long.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there are people who aren’t talked-out about this topic. You’ve got good ideas, and you’ve presented them well. It’s not that I lack respect for your ideas, it’s that I lack faith in anet’s response. I’m sorry if I sounded brusque.

Kaz.5430:

With the recent blog regarding the new player levelling up changes, I think that they’ve probably done a lot of work trying to make each level up rewarding. If you move things from 6’s to 5’s, I think it’ll mess with that system.

That said, something like this ought to work just as well and ought to not have a side effect of making the level-up rewards out of sync with whatever they plan:

18 x1, 24 x1, 30 x1, 36 x1, 42 x1, 48 x1, 54 x1, 60 x1, 66 x1, 72 x1, 78 x2, 80 x2

Maybe so. I’m not sure how important the numbers themselves are. Your take on it could work too.

The whole “giving 2 for the first unlock” is something that may be a bit confusing, giving 1 on every other unlock, but it’s something I feel would make veterans a lot happier with the system.

Your thought for 18×1 and 24×1 could work better to keep out the confusion, while making the first “blank” slot available distinctly sooner.

Guhracie.3419:

I’m not trying to disregard your idea. You’re right. There are plenty of complaints in that thread. But there are also a lot of good ideas that are months old, and I’m pretty unhappy about that. It’s worthy of discussion, but I don’t have the energy for doing it, myself, and given how merge-happy they’ve been with threads of this sort, I really think it’s unlikely to stand alone for long.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there are people who aren’t talked-out about this topic. You’ve got good ideas, and you’ve presented them well. It’s not that I lack respect for your ideas, it’s that I lack faith in anet’s response. I’m sorry if I sounded brusque.

No hard feelings – just figured I’d take the opportunity to explain my reasoning a bit more.

I thought about this for a bit, and it’s probably redundant to make another thread but here’s how I’d do it:

Traits unlock at level 15. You get one trait point at that level and another every 5 levels. At level 30 the Master traits open up and at level 60 the Grandmaster traits open up.

Three ways to unlock individual traits:
1) Objectives (like it is now).
2) Purchased tomes (like it is now).
3) New – PvE trait reward tracks.

There are a few types of tracks, all active at once.
i) Experience track: Every five levels you gain (including at level 80) grants you a random Adept trait that you have not already learned. If you own all Adept traits, this will grant a random Master trait. If you own all Master traits, it will be a random Grandmaster trait. The reasoning behind randomizing this is to still have incentive to complete specific trait objectives, though the trait you learn from this is always one you haven’t already earned. This track is also meant to encourage trying other builds, and ensures everyone has a decent selection of traits as they level up.

ii) Dungeon tracks: There’s one of these for each dungeon, and it’s not repeatable. Beat story mode for a dungeon and you get to choose any Adept tome. Beat an explorable path and you get to choose any Adept or Master tome. Beat all paths for a dungeon and you get to choose a Grandmaster tome.

iii) Explorer tracks: There’s one for each zone. Fully completing any zone in the game will grant a random trait in exactly the same way as reward track (i).

Tulki.1458:

I thought about this for a bit, and it’s probably redundant to make another thread but here’s how I’d do it:

Traits unlock at level 15. You get one trait point at that level and another every 5 levels. At level 30 the Master traits open up and at level 60 the Grandmaster traits open up.

Three ways to unlock individual traits:
1) Objectives (like it is now).
2) Purchased tomes (like it is now).
3) New – PvE trait reward tracks.

There are a few types of tracks, all active at once.
i) Experience track: Every five levels you gain (including at level 80) grants you a random Adept trait that you have not already learned. If you own all Adept traits, this will grant a random Master trait. If you own all Master traits, it will be a random Grandmaster trait. The reasoning behind randomizing this is to still have incentive to complete specific trait objectives, though the trait you learn from this is always one you haven’t already earned. This track is also meant to encourage trying other builds, and ensures everyone has a decent selection of traits as they level up.

ii) Dungeon tracks: There’s one of these for each dungeon, and it’s not repeatable. Beat story mode for a dungeon and you get to choose any Adept tome. Beat an explorable path and you get to choose any Adept or Master tome. Beat all paths for a dungeon and you get to choose a Grandmaster tome.

iii) Explorer tracks: There’s one for each zone. Fully completing any zone in the game will grant a random trait in exactly the same way as reward track (i).

Thanks for sharing. I like the spirit of this, though I’m not sure how I feel about large-scale revising of the trait-unlocking system. I’m largely of the opinion that if the book cost is reduced, it can stay as is, as an optional way to unlock, without needing extra design work.

That said, speaking hypothetically, I think the kind of system you’re proposing would feel more robust if it gave you a choice no matter which track, rather than a random unlock. Mainly because random unlock could wind up feeling like a frustrating game of “hope I get lucky this time or else I have to go buy what I need.”