Guild Wars 2

This problem keeps coming back. In the Druid reveal, an ArenaNet dev described the abundancy of the Berserker game to be “not super healthy for the game”. Coupled with Druid’s focus on healing the Berserker argument returns.

The Zerker Question

• “When one stat combo is undeniably the fastest, most efficient means to complete your content goals, why choose anything else?”

The debate generally revolves around a core problem: TTK (time to kill). Everything else (control, support, healing, ((de))buffing, etc.) becomes a secondary concern to a zerk build. Most zerker builds will accomodate the minimum necessary support skills & traits into their build to help them and their group nuke down whatever it is they’re nuking as fast and as efficiently as possible. This is a proven strategy with a high success yield. Personally, I’ve tried a lot of stat combos and role attempts, and always come back to the efficiency of the zerk model.

The Proposal

Normalise Berserker attributes across all equipment by making it baseline. Make the Berserker stat combination baseline on Weapons, Armour, Backpieces and Jewellery. Remove Power, Precision and Ferocity from every stat combination on these items.

This means speccing into full power/precision/ferocity is still a matter of traits (and food & nourishment) but allows for wider access to the subroles found within traits and skills, increasing diversity. Essentially I’m advocating the logical conclusion of ANets unholy trinity. Everyone is DPS and something else.

It might make more sense to make this a purely PvE change as I’m not sure it would have a positive impact on WvW or PvP. Anyone with a lot of experience in those game modes can correct me there.

The Pros

• Anyone who wishes to focus on their damage can still achieve strong results via selecting +damage/crit/etc. traits and damaging/damage-buffing utilities and, of course, weapon.

• Other roles now compliment the central DPS pillar of the profession, rather than sacrificing it.

• The many zerk players won’t be left out in the cold when “challenging” content looks to push players further into role niches.

• Allows more new attribute qualities again. (eg. Boon duration, Condition duration, etc.)

The Cons

• I would guess ANet would want to rebalance some traits/skills in lieu of these changes and that is probably the biggest obstacle to this change.

• Mobs across the board should have their damage increased.

• Power creep. (pun unintended)

• Everyone going ZerkSoldier would just continue the problem under another name and I’m not sure how to address that. Suggestions welcome.

• Rebalancing of the leftover stats on some stat combinations, others need to be merged/deleted. Allowing players to choose their new stat combinations on their items might seem problematic to ANet and confusing to newer players.

tl;dr Making everyone a zerker plus whatever stat combo completely nullifies the zerk debate and allows us more freedom in diversifying our builds.

I assume you’d have to remove every stat combination that included Power, Prec or Fero too?

Eg. Would you be able to select Assassin’s, Sinister, Cavalier, Soldier’s, Celestial etc gear?

This system with the current choices would just get everyone running Assassin’s I guess. Also you’ll need to rebalance Condi specs (again).

Imagining you removed lots and lots of choices and ended up only with combinations of Vit, Tough, Heal, Condi and maybe 1 of the Power, Prec, Fero you’d just end up with Condi/(whatever defensive stat is best for you)/(whatever left over DPS stat is for you) gear chosen across all profs. Again for maximum DPS.

The issue has never been the gear but the encounters and how efficient active defense is at dealing with all current sources of damage.

Anet want to keep the active defense and frankly they cannot remove it anyway as DODGE is such a core mechanic, the change to any meta will always revolve around the encounters and core mechanics – gear is just going to be “choose the highest DPS you can get away with and complete the content.” Its a secondary consideration and dictated by the design.

Coulter.2315:

I assume you’d have to remove every stat combination that included Power, Prec or Fero too?

Eg. Would you be able to select Assassin’s, Sinister, Cavalier, Soldier’s, Celestial etc gear

dace

Remove Power, Precision and Ferocity from every stat combination on these items.

You are right on the quality of the (existing) content. Dodging has always been the crutch upon which every zerker leans. Which is why I haven’t posted this before. From what I’ve seen of HoT (Druid, Revenant ((Ventari)), the first zone of HoT, Raids having a need for roles) ANet are taking content steps to address the balance. I’m not sure it’ll be enough which is why I think, on the back of the xpac, the game is in a good position for a fundamental revision of one of its core aspects.

One way to keep this relevant in older (existing) content is the increased damage from mobs and probably a reduced delay in their attack sequences (at least for those who only attack once every 3 seconds).

dace.8019:

Coulter.2315:

I assume you’d have to remove every stat combination that included Power, Prec or Fero too?

Eg. Would you be able to select Assassin’s, Sinister, Cavalier, Soldier’s, Celestial etc gear

dace

Remove Power, Precision and Ferocity from every other stat combination on these items.

You are right on the quality of the (existing) content. Dodging has always been the crutch upon which every zerker leans. Which is why I haven’t posted this before. From what I’ve seen of HoT (Druid, Revenant ((Ventari)), the first zone of HoT, Raids having a need for roles) ANet are taking content steps to address the balance. I’m not sure it’ll be enough which is why I think, on the back of the xpac, the game is in a good position for a fundamental revision of one of its core aspects.

One way to keep this relevant in older (existing) content is the increased damage from mobs and probably a reduced delay in their attack sequences (at least for those who only attack once every 3 seconds).

I agree with what you’ve said about mob attacks and design so far. I’m not sure your change will actually help the situation unless you add Condi Duration, Boon Duration (these both can be made Condi/Boon Specific), possibly Energy Regen, Profession Mechanic Regen (these are just examples fromt he top of my head) as gear stats. New stats will be required to add back depth.

If we implement your change without adding more depth to the stat choices we end up with everyone being Zerker but with more Condi damage and 2 defensive stats (Toughness and Healing for Med/High base HP and Vit and Healing for Low Base HP – Healing for both because most classes accidently splash out group heals through Regen or random effects, if they don’t Tough and Vit). This will not make the game any more diverse than it is currently.

Remember in EVERY MMO gear is always ‘the maximum DPS you can get away with and complete the encounter.’ (Unless you’re only making this change to force the current set of people who refuse to take a damage efficient build into taking a damage efficient build – remember you’re going to turn all those people who say "I don’t want to be a Zerker, I want to be a Cleric’ into a Zerker – whether they want it or not).

Coulter.2315:

I’m not sure your change will actually help the situation unless you add Condi Duration, Boon Duration (these both can be made Condi/Boon Specific), possibly Energy Regen, Profession Mechanic Regen (these are just examples fromt he top of my head) as gear stats. New stats will be required to add back depth.

I thought of that (under the Pros section):

dace

Allows more new attribute qualities again. (eg. Boon duration, Condition duration, etc.)

The idea of a zerk baseline affords a return of old attributes and brand new ones (control duration? and for the new roles, something like Taunt duration?) allows for a soft inclusion of classic trinity instead of a full-on profession defining mechanism, which actually on the surface of it seems to be aligned with ANets intentions.

There will be no trinity, being it soft or hard, or any kind of specialised roles in a group as long as the content is not asking for it.

Why should I do an encounter in 2mins when I can finish it in 1min?
Why should I bring a healing/support character when we can manage without one?

As long as the encounter doesn’t specifically require you to have a dedicated support (e.g. you need aegis every X seconds on boss Y else you can’t kill it, and the character that provides aegis takes 20k damage), then nothing will change, maybe just the gear set name.

VaLee.5102:

There will be no trinity, being it soft or hard, or any kind of specialised roles in a group as long as the content is not asking for it.

Which has now been confirmed as something ANet are attempting to deliver (in HoT).

VaLee.5102:

Why should I do an encounter in 2mins when I can finish it in 1min?
Why should I bring a healing/support character when we can manage without one?

Exactly; assuming my solution could be implemented, you wouldn’t need to make that choice. You’d have the DPS of a zerker (from equipment) with the bonus of an extra optional soft role via equipment (and your build). You can focus on being damage orientated and just pick up damaging traits/utilities/weapon skills. Essentially it means if you did decide to dish out lots of heals you wouldn’t utterly kitten your damage, however you would reduce it a bit. HoT has promised us a need for healing, and other roles, at least in some portions of its content: this proposal means that those roles could be filled without giving up all (or in many cases any) damage.

Of course, the existing GW2 base game doesn’t require this in any shape or form, however a rebalance across the board (with some fine tuning) by increasing the damage of all mobs and reducing their idle time between attacks (at least for those with excessive idle intervals of 3+ seconds) might be capable of delivering this on its own.

I suggested this in a different form a long time ago and they ignored it then, like they are likely to ignore it now. I was saying that they should just have one gear set, pretty much a GW2 uniform for PvE. Something they can actually balance around and not have to go to the extremes in mob/encounter design…trying to kill full nomads and trying to make mobs last longer/be a challenge for zerk. I like your suggestion of moving stats onto base stats entirely. I would suggest they do this for all stats. Essentially make gear cosmetic only. It kind of takes the fun and accomplishment out of gearing your character, but at least it solves the fundamental problem they are having with balance.

“trying to kill full nomads and trying to make mobs last longer/be a challenge for zerk. "

The problem there is we equip zerk to make fights shorter and mob health should be balanced around celestial since it has all of each stat. If it’s balanced assuming players have berzerker then those in soldier’s or other gear will take too long to kill things even with full ascended (map mobs should be balanced around masterwork stats.)

Did it ever come to anyone’s mind that you can still have a zerker class in your roster? Not the entire group?

One heavy glass cannon, such as a staff ele, would be useful still. But not an entire group of them.

dace.8019:

Which has now been confirmed as something ANet are attempting to deliver (in HoT).

One can only hope at this moment, I guess we’ll see next week with the raids beta.
If that first boss can be killed with 10 zerkers then we’ll know the answer.

Agreed; it’s why I’ve said “attempting to deliver” as I am somewhat (though not completely!) sceptical that ANet will pull it off, at least to the extent that they apparently envision.

It’s worth mentioning that I don’t expect (nor hope) that the letter of this suggestion be taken for literal implementation. That it would be a compelling thought experiment that might turn out to have application, or (more likely) have component pieces that could be repurposed for another project towards a similiar end, is about the extent of it.