Guild Wars 2

So, as I killed Teq for the… however many times, I started thinking, “I wish Teq just dropped a token of sorts. Then after i collected like 100 tokens I could trade them in for one of his Sunless weapons.” So, I am bringing this idea to the table. I imagine it has been mentioned before, but for the people like me, with no drop luck, this would be a fantastic addition. In fact, I have not gotten a single ascended chest drop, ever. I also have a lvl 80 of each class, So it’s not like I am new to the game either (around 13k achievement points).

So, back on topic, a generic currency for all world bosses (just the revamped) would be nice. So you might get one for Teq, three for Triple,Trouble (based on the number of heads), and one for Shatterer. Even based on possibly obtaining 5 per day, and them costing 100, that would be 20 days to get a piece. Or maybe make it 150 per, which would up to to 30 days. For a casual player like myself, I would be looking at a few months to get one weapon. But, at least every kill I knew I was getting closer to finally obtaining it. As it stands right now, I might never get them.

Another thought, the purchased items could also be just the skin. This would allow for the actual weapon to remain part of the drop, but at least gives the chance to unlock the skin for boss exclusive weapons.

I know this raises the issues of hoarding the currency and spending it when new skins are implemented. Maybe a cap could be placed. So, you would only be able to hold 150, which would get you one skin piece.

But, that’s just my thoughts as I wait for the reset to kill Teq again…

I know this raises the issues of hoarding the currency and spending it when new skins are implemented.

Why is that an issue? A problem with WoW honor is you can’t save it for the next season. If you played enough to earn 1,000 tokens why shouldn’t you have them?

I like the idea. I don’t really think it’s necessary to introduce a new item drop for every boss, though. Many of the bosses already drop boss-specific loot with some regularity (not including the ultra rare treasure hunter stuff). Most of those items could probably be adapted for use with these new ideas of yours. Teq, for example, could just use the Carved Bone Spoons that many of us hoard.

And if there’s any concern of this affecting the TP, just set everything related to the purchase of that weapon/armor skin as account bound and voila.

+1!

Agemnon.4608:

I know this raises the issues of hoarding the currency and spending it when new skins are implemented.

Why is that an issue? A problem with WoW honor is you can’t save it for the next season. If you played enough to earn 1,000 tokens why shouldn’t you have them?

The problems I would see is if there was a generic currency for world bosses, then they revamp or add a new one with special drops, people could just buy the drops/skins the first day. I do agree though that if you earn the tokens, you should be able to keep them. But setting a cap would encourage people to buy the skins (for an example) as they reached the cap. Then they could collect more for another.

Unneccessary.

Rare drops are a healthy part of loot games. Part of the reason loot in GW2 is often seen as not very exiting is the homogenization of drop tables in the first place. In GW1, there were a large variety of skins, some more rare than others, but what mad that cosmetic drop system shine was that the vast majority of skins only dropped in specific parts of the world.

Killing a specific world boss shouldn’t equate to a sure run at rare skins. It should equate to reasonably sure run at common boss themed items and an overall loot value consistent with the effort.

The reason token systems exist in dungeons is that those skins are thematically tied to a piece of content specifically designed to be repeated for tokens, and that all of the unique rewards afforded by those tokens are sufficiently numerous that repetition of the content (multiple paths) should be rewarded by a choice of items.

World bosses are not dungeons. They’re short events specifically designed to prevent repetition. Rare drops from those events are meant to encourage people to do them on occasion for the off chance at cool loot, but really just because the payout versus time spent is lucrative. Moving to a universal token would encourage people to abandon all but the easiest bosses. Implementing your token system would effectively remove triple trouble from play.

The idea that you should have a guaranteed chance at acquiring any item in the game, especially when those rewards are purely cosmetic, is harmful to the overall design of a loot based title, and is equivalent to removing loot from mobs entirely and putting every item on a vendor.

Token systems do not create fun loot systems. They do not allow rare items to retain their value. They make loot boring. GW2 already has a large loot interest problem. We don’t need to be looking for ways to make the loot even less exciting.

I understand where your coming from, and I do agree with some of it. Triple Trouble is by far the hardest of the current world bosses (thinking of Teq, TT, and Shatterer). That is why I mentioned it having a higher reward. Also, there are tons of other skins available in the game, I was just mentioned the world boss ones.

But along the same lines of “those skins are thematically tied to a piece of content specifically designed to be repeated,” people repeat world bosses every day, like someone would do with a dungeon, for a reward. The dungeon is just scaled to be faster and more efficient at the token farm.

I have to disagree with “token systems do not create fun loot systems” though. Again, I was referring to world boss drops specifically. Tokens allow players to work towards a reward, instead of facing the chances of never progressing. They bypassed the almost-impossible drop chances of precursors by setting up a scavenger hunt system. This token idea is along the same lines. Even if it was boss specific, killing Teq 200 times (just using a number) should allow you some progress towards a weapon.

Right, but the point is that dungeon tokens work because there are a massive variety of unique items yo can buy with them, AND there are three paths per dungeon, AND dungeons paths are (design wise) lengthy encounters. Yes you can speedrun them. Yet you can skip through most of the mobs. However that’s not the intent of the design, and the only reason it persists is because Anet realized the player base wanted shorter group content and abandoned further balance/mechanics updates to dungeons.

Play a dungeon as intended, actually killing the mobs, and you’ll discover that its often a much longer encounter than a world boss. it’s longer specifically because its designed for repetition. Repeating the same three hours of content is far less grind headache inducing than repeating the same 30 minutes.

Both systems, Tokens and Rare drops exist to patch an unfortunate reality of theme park style MMOs: The developers can’t create content faster than the players consume it. In a perfect world, you’d only do any given fight once, there’d be no incentive to repeat it because there would always be a new piece of content.

However, that dream is a functional impossibility due to the tinme it takes to create that content always being far longer than the time it takes to play it, so we have to incentivize repetition so that the content feels valuable.

Rare drops create an urge, due to rarity, to repeat the content because there’s a chance at immediate payoff. Tokens create a progress bar. Tokens say ‘you have to complete this x times to get Y item’ while drops say ‘you can complete this because its fun, and you might get this cool thing on top of all the normal things’

The problem with tokens is that it speaks to a sense of entitlement. The idea that just because a player wants a thing, they should be able to get it through brute force. They remove luck, and thus rarity from the equation. once you implement a token for a given item there is no going back. The item’s rarity declines in a linear fashion over time.

As much as people claim they only want skin X because it looks nice, people want that skin because of its real or percieved rarity. Drop chances are real rarity, while popularity ot items is percieved rarity. Some people prefer stuff like newbie skins dyed in expensive colors for instance. That’s not because the skins are rare, but because it has the net effect of making hteir appearance unique compared to those around them.

This isn’t about showing off, but rather a sense of ownership over one’s character. the ability to customize, to no be a faceless clone of other players in the world.

Those two concepts, real and percieved rarity are closely related. As goes one so goes the other. The less real rarity an item has, so too falls the perceived rarity of it. No atter why a given player wants it, for bragging right or pure aesthetics, the net result is an item that becomes less desirable to everyone.

Token systems are appropriate for functional items. They level the playing field so that players aren’t limited to luck just to stand on equa footing with their peers, and this ensures a larger overall population is equipped to tackle the latest and greatest content at all times, and nobody gets left out.

However, GW2’s economy isn’t built around functionality. It’s built around cosmetics. It is built around the concept of percieved rarity. For that reason, having rare drops is MORE important in GW2 than most other games. Rarity and rarity alone, not stats or utility, is the sole reason for players ot acquire new items after the first few months of play.

Sure, you might want a specific item, and it may seem nicer if you, personally, could acquire it easier, but ask yourself why you want it in the first place. You desire it out of a sense of percieved rarity. Because it will make your character look cool, or unique, and not just like everyone else. Taking rarity out of the equation and just turning it in to a grind with a rare chance of a shortcut harms the core mechanism that makes you want loot, and thus derive enjoyment from repeating content, in the first place.

My gaming philosophy might be different than most. I do agree with what you are saying. I know for the masses the rarity factor of weapons is enticing, but my views are not based on rarity. So, giving the question of “why you want it in the first place” applies purely to my own cosmetic aesthetics. Playing a Necromancer in Arah armor, dyed black and green, the Sunless weapons would look great. Had I found another armor I liked more, and different colors, I would gravitate towards a different weapon. But that is just me.

Ultimately I know where your coming from and I’m no stranger to MMO games (been playing them since Vanilla Everquest), but there has to be a system that works in everyone’s favor. Maybe gated behind achievements and kills. Even if it is a one-time you-pick reward for your efforts, at least all the kills and struggles would not be in vain.

I think it’s a great idea to get 1 chest at the completion of all Teq achievements that would grant you one sunless weapon (whether chosen or random.) The activities in HoT offer more than a mastery point for achieving gold, why not offer a little something more for world bosses? When something has to repeated many times over just to get a mastery point, at least make it worth more than one measly mastery point.