Aye, the direct effect would be stabilizing precursor prices initially, but that would send ripples through the economy. Like was pointed out, what about rare/exotic prices on the TP? Mithril Prices?
Aye, the direct effect would be stabilizing precursor prices initially, but that would send ripples through the economy. Like was pointed out, what about rare/exotic prices on the TP? Mithril Prices?
Meh, people are gamblers. Currently they have 2 guaranteed ways to get a pre:
1. Buy gems with real money, convert to gold, buy from TP.
2. Farm gold, buy from TP.
Yet people still try for the RNG. They still think they can beat market prices and that’s why so many people throw tons of rares/exotics in the forge.
Why would they discontinue their gambling if pres were introduced to the gem store?
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
To those still thinking about this, take the extreme case.
What if ANET introduced pres for 1,000,000 gems? Does anyone think this would have any real effect on the market at all? If the answer is no, which I think it logically should be, then you have to concede that if the price is high enough supply and demand won’t be affected in any meaningful way.
actually it isn’t quite the same thing. The precursors listed on the market were drops from somewhere in the game. Precursors drop at an incredibly rare rate. If precursors were added to the gem store, that rate would increase significantly (especially since the OP suggested keeping the precursors as a drop in all loot tables).
Your analogy isnt quite as accurate as you would hope. in the real world, there is only a limited (and likely low) amount of the aforementioned rare swords (otherwise they would not be rare). In the game world, the items are generated from nothing. Because of this, the precursors themselves would no longer be rare. to be fair though, allowing precursors to be crafted would also cause them to lose their rarity as well.
I dont see them doing this though since they have never released an exotic item on the gem store.
Check your assumptions.
I’m not seeing an issue with the assumptions/facts.
Facts:
*Precursors on the TP were drops somewhere in the game (whether from the forge, a chest, or a random mob)
*Precursors have an incredibly rare droprate
OP suggested keeping the droprate the same throughout the world, so adding pres to the gem store MUST increase the droprate (unless noone buys one from the gemstore).
Assumption- some one will buy a precursor if it is offered in the gemstore- that one is valid (OP would probably buy one if no one else)
Your analogy is somewhat a straw man arguement. The issue isnt that you can exchange gems and gold. The issue is that precursors and the ways to get them. You didnt mention where these swords came from, but there must be a limited amount of them, as with all RL things. When they run out, there are no more. In the game world, there is no limit to precursors other than the RNG limit imposed. Unless they limited the amount that could be purchased from the gem store (TERRIBLE IDEA), there would be NO limit to the supply.
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Jewelcrafting to 500!
Aye, the direct effect would be stabilizing precursor prices initially, but that would send ripples through the economy. Like was pointed out, what about rare/exotic prices on the TP? Mithril Prices?
Meh, people are gamblers. Currently they have 2 guaranteed ways to get a pre:
1. Buy gems with real money, convert to gold, buy from TP.
2. Farm gold, buy from TP.
Yet people still try for the RNG. They still think they can beat market prices and that’s why so many people throw tons of rares/exotics in the forge.
Why would they discontinue their gambling if pres were introduced to the gem store?
It wouldn’t stop, simply saying that if the pre’s took any kind of price cut in the suggested new system that it would have effects on other things notably the rare/exotics and the components to make them.
Adding precursors to the gemstore does seem as if it would all but guarantee an increase in supply. To what degree we cannot know at this point but an increase would be so very likely as to be essentially a certainty.
Only if the price was lower than current market value.
If I want a precursor that isnt dropping for me then I would buy one from the gemstore resulting in one more precursor in the game than existed before.
Im not sure why Anet, if they were inclined to put precursors in the gemstore at all, wod waste their time putting them in at a price point where it would be cheaper to buy gems to convert to gold to then buy from another player.
Ultimately the reason for this to not happen is that either the direct option to purchase precursors from the gemstore would fail because if the buy gems-convert to gold-buy from another player option was less expensive, resulting in wasted dev time implementing the direct conversion….or the market for players purchasing from other players would collapse if it was less expensive to buy gems with gold and use them to get the item from the gemstore.
One result of adding precursors to the gemstore is a waste of dev resources because it wouldnt be used and the other would only work at the expense of players who managed to get a precursor to drop. Imagine that one in a million drop, perhaps the only precursor youll ever get being one that you cant use…and not being able to sell it.
Adding precursors to the gem store is a lose/lose situation for players IMO.
actually it isn’t quite the same thing. The precursors listed on the market were drops from somewhere in the game. Precursors drop at an incredibly rare rate. If precursors were added to the gem store, that rate would increase significantly (especially since the OP suggested keeping the precursors as a drop in all loot tables).
Your analogy isnt quite as accurate as you would hope. in the real world, there is only a limited (and likely low) amount of the aforementioned rare swords (otherwise they would not be rare). In the game world, the items are generated from nothing. Because of this, the precursors themselves would no longer be rare. to be fair though, allowing precursors to be crafted would also cause them to lose their rarity as well.
I dont see them doing this though since they have never released an exotic item on the gem store.
Check your assumptions.
I’m not seeing an issue with the assumptions/facts.
Facts:
*Precursors on the TP were drops somewhere in the game (whether from the forge, a chest, or a random mob)
*Precursors have an incredibly rare droprate
OP suggested keeping the droprate the same throughout the world, so adding pres to the gem store MUST increase the droprate (unless noone buys one from the gemstore).
Assumption- some one will buy a precursor if it is offered in the gemstore- that one is valid (OP would probably buy one if no one else)
Your analogy is somewhat a straw man arguement. The issue isnt that you can exchange gems and gold. The issue is that precursors and the ways to get them. You didnt mention where these swords came from, but there must be a limited amount of them, as with all RL things. When they run out, there are no more. In the game world, there is no limit to precursors other than the RNG limit imposed. Unless they limited the amount that could be purchased from the gem store (TERRIBLE IDEA), there would be NO limit to the supply.
Good, you got the assumption right, but the conclusion is still wrong. At a high enough price, no one would buy pres from the gemstore. What is that price? Any price such that the gems you get from your real money are worth more gold than the market pre price but are not valuable enough as gems to buy the pre from the gemstore.
Let me be clear here. It’s my opinion that pres should not be sellable. That they are indicates to me that ANET is monetizing them without being explicit about it. Putting them in the gemstore would just make the deception less… deceiving to people who can’t understand the equalities of currencies.
The idea of the gem store was originally for convenience items and cosmetics. Clearly precursors are a cosmetic.
This would stabilize the prices which would lessen inflation. It would lead to more people buying gems, which Anet would like.
They should still be available as random drops-kind of like the hair style kits can be bought or found as rare loot .
Seems like a simple fix to a vexing problem.
Actually precursors have multiple purposes and their primary one is as a material to make a legendary. Extremely rare mats of any kind available on the Gem Shop sort of violates the notion that you needn’t buy anything off of the Gem Shop. It’s a short cut.
Of course there will be players saying that you could buy gold with cash via gems and then use that gold to buy a precursor. Fine. But you are buying a precursor that already dropped within the game with gold that already dropped within the game, not creating either from scratch. On top of that converted gems help lower the exchange rates while still bringing in income to ANet.
Let me be clear here. It’s my opinion that pres should not be sellable. That they are indicates to me that ANET is monetizing them without being explicit about it. Putting them in the gemstore would just make the deception less… deceiving to people who can’t understand the equalities of currencies.
Personally I think that pres should be sellable. I am also of the opinion that having them be sellable means that they are a part of the game’s monetization. To be frank thats not really a matter of opinion. You, and I, are absolutely correct in this regard. On the other hand I do not believe there is anything deceptive about the current setup.
Let me be clear here. It’s my opinion that pres should not be sellable. That they are indicates to me that ANET is monetizing them without being explicit about it. Putting them in the gemstore would just make the deception less… deceiving to people who can’t understand the equalities of currencies.
Personally I think that pres should be sellable. I am also of the opinion that having them be sellable means that they are a part of the game’s monetization. To be frank thats not really a matter of opinion. You, and I, are absolutely correct in this regard. On the other hand I do not believe there is anything deceptive about the current setup.
Yes, and yet as this thread is testament, some people don’t “get it.”
Why would people convert to gems to get the pre and not just buy with the gold they just farmed?
Not everyone farms gold.
There are people in this game that want instant gratification in this game with no work or effort involved and are willing to pay real money for it instead of farm. Nothing wrong with that as it drives markets. I promise legendaries are one of the biggest of the the biggest driving factor behind gem->gold conversions.
I’m well aware, and those people can already pay real money for the pres. The person I quoted is arguing under the premise that pres would ONLY be available in the gem store, which wasn’t the OPs original suggestion.
And that was my mistake. However, I do still hold to the premise that it would have far reaching effects on the TP as a whole if offered in the gem store as well as the TP.
But then the question is what would the price in gems be? 2,000? 5,000, 10,000? If it were to reflect the current TP prices for Dusk it would be somewhere around (please someone double check my maths) 9,480 gems. (15g 60s for 100 gems, and current TP price 1479g min sale offer. Would be 1479/15.60*100?) using gold > gem conversion or $177 USD. (.12 USD for 1g, 1479*.12)
I am not very good at math, so can someone either verify this, or provide a formula for the conversion of gold to gems.
Putting precursors on the Gemstore is basically “pay to win” something Anet will never do. And if precursors are “clearly cosmetic” what stops them from just selling the skin instead of the exotic?
“Don’t be discouraged, darling. You can’t help being inferior.”
What would happen to the market in general if Precursors were added as an exclusive gem store item? I have a feeling that the prices of many items will actually climb (i.e. rare/exotic weapons, T5 and T6 mats) even though there would be less demand. My reasoning is that although there is less demand for such items, it would cut out a gold sink, which allows for more gold in circulation, which leads to prices being higher. And of course the gold>gem conversion would skyrocket, as more people would farm gold to convert to gems to but precursors. At least thats my assesment. Any thoughts?
The market would be empty, due to lack of server support… because our office would be burned to the ground by an angry mob.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
Euhm, precursors are already behind a pay wall. What the OP suggests changes nothing, other then the prevents of precursors going up in price even further (which they steadily are right now).
I’m not saying that I approve of precursors on the gemstore, but you are overreacting.
Putting precursors on the Gemstore is basically “pay to win” something Anet will never do. And if precursors are “clearly cosmetic” what stops them from just selling the skin instead of the exotic?
You can already pay for gems, sell them for gold and instantly win your legendary on TP ;-)
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
Euhm, precursors are already behind a pay wall. What the OP suggests changes nothing, other then the prevents of precursors going up in price even further (which they steadily are right now).
I’m not saying that I approve of precursors on the gemstore, but you are overreacting.
I don’t think I am. Adding in a new source of precursors outside of the game will prevent, and lower, the current prices of precursors on the market. However, with such an addition WILL have far reaching effects on the market. Supply and demand issues, prices, gem conversion rates, etc.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Why would people convert to gems to get the pre and not just buy with the gold they just farmed?
Not everyone farms gold.
There are people in this game that want instant gratification in this game with no work or effort involved and are willing to pay real money for it instead of farm. Nothing wrong with that as it drives markets. I promise legendaries are one of the biggest of the the biggest driving factor behind gem->gold conversions.
I’m well aware, and those people can already pay real money for the pres. The person I quoted is arguing under the premise that pres would ONLY be available in the gem store, which wasn’t the OPs original suggestion.
And that was my mistake. However, I do still hold to the premise that it would have far reaching effects on the TP as a whole if offered in the gem store as well as the TP.
But then the question is what would the price in gems be? 2,000? 5,000, 10,000? If it were to reflect the current TP prices for Dusk it would be somewhere around (please someone double check my maths) 9,480 gems. (15g 60s for 100 gems, and current TP price 1479g min sale offer. Would be 1479/15.60*100?) using gold > gem conversion or $177 USD. (.12 USD for 1g, 1479*.12)
I am not very good at math, so can someone either verify this, or provide a formula for the conversion of gold to gems.
It seems likely to have either next to zero impact on the player to player/TP market (if the TP option was cheaper) or it would destroy the player to player/TP market( if the gemstore option was cheaper). There would be no real reason to spend development resources to add the gemstore option if it were going to operate at the same cost as the TP option.
Buy gems then sell them for gold then buy whatever precursor or legendary you want on TP
This.
It’s what I did to get my Bifrost. Sure I basically bought 80% of all I needed and crafted the rest, so I still did some work on it, but yeah you can basically buy gems and convert to gold so precursors and legendaries have always been available to buy from gemstore when you really think about it.
Not sure why everyone’s making a mountain out of a molehill when it’s always been available from gemstore via real life money > buy gems > convert to gold > buy precursor/legendary. Whether you pay for it with gems or gold, it doesn’t really matter, it’s the same thing really.
I think what people WANT to see is more ways of obtaining said precursor/s through doing treasure hunts and stuff, and earning it that way rather than being able to outright buy one with real life money.
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
Euhm, precursors are already behind a pay wall. What the OP suggests changes nothing, other then the prevents of precursors going up in price even further (which they steadily are right now).
I’m not saying that I approve of precursors on the gemstore, but you are overreacting.
I don’t think I am. Adding in a new source of precursors outside of the game will prevent, and lower, the current prices of precursors on the market. However, with such an addition WILL have far reaching effects on the market. Supply and demand issues, prices, gem conversion rates, etc.
You really are overreacting though.
Someone can already pay real-life money for gems → convert gems to gold → use gold to buy precursor from the TP.
There are already people buying precursors for real-life money that they convert to gems that they convert to gold. The only effect that the OP’s suggestion will have is that it cuts out the middleman (the person selling the precursor on the TP) for people who want to buy a precursor for real-life money.
the only effect I see this OP’s suggesting having is that the prices of the precursors on the TP might drop (depending on how expensive Anet would make the gemstore precursors). Lets be honest, the prices of the precursors on the TP are getting ridiculously out of hand, so I don’t see that as a bad thing.
I think that you should be able to craft precursors. but that they should be harder to get than a Ascended and that you should have to have 500 in the appropriate discipline. or that it should be like the luminescent armor
Hate to burst a few bubbles but Legendary weapons can be bought on the TP with gold. People can buy gems with RL money and convert it to gold. People can therefore buy Legendary weapons with RL money.
If P2W is being able to buy your way into the BiS gear, then GW2 has been P2W when it comes to weapons since day 1.
ANet can control the rate at which players get legendaries by controlling the precursor drop rate. Everything else is either used for other recipes or made with things used in other recipes.
If they put the precursors on the gem store, it means that unless ANet makes the incredibly expensive such that most players would just buy from the trading post or gamble instead, they would lose their ability to control the rate players get legendaries. And drive up the costs of the mats used to make legendaries. And it wouldn’t surprise me if one of them needed silk.
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
Euhm, precursors are already behind a pay wall. What the OP suggests changes nothing, other then the prevents of precursors going up in price even further (which they steadily are right now).
I’m not saying that I approve of precursors on the gemstore, but you are overreacting.
I don’t think I am. Adding in a new source of precursors outside of the game will prevent, and lower, the current prices of precursors on the market. However, with such an addition WILL have far reaching effects on the market. Supply and demand issues, prices, gem conversion rates, etc.
You really are overreacting though.
Someone can already pay real-life money for gems -> convert gems to gold -> use gold to buy precursor from the TP.
There are already people buying precursors for real-life money that they convert to gems that they convert to gold. The only effect that the OP’s suggestion will have is that it cuts out the middleman (the person selling the precursor on the TP) for people who want to buy a precursor for real-life money.
the only effect I see this OP’s suggesting having is that the prices of the precursors on the TP might drop (depending on how expensive Anet would make the gemstore precursors). Lets be honest, the prices of the precursors on the TP are getting ridiculously out of hand, so I don’t see that as a bad thing.
Although do buy gems and convert to gold to buy precursors, with this, more people will be using gold to convert to gems. Which, as said before, will result in higher gem prices. Fewer people will be using gems to convert to gold, which help keep prices down. Also, with the addition of precursors to the gem store, more people will be more inclined to purchase them and make Legendaries, which would increase the demand of all sorts of other things. It’s more then just reducing the cost of precursors on the TP. Any change to the economy like this, even just the aquisition of precursors will have a dramatic effect on the economy as a whole. Look at the introduction of Ascended gear.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s already possible to buy legendaries and the precursor by converting real money into gems and converting this gems back to in game currency.
As far as the game goes now – Anet is possible to somehow control how many precursors are available on the market. That’s possible be adjusting the drop chance through loot and the kitten toilet.
If there would be the possibility to simply buy the precursor on the gemstone, there would be a clear advantage over “normal-casual” players. They woul undoubtedly create a Pay to win situation.
Also the long term effect would have a tremendous outcome on the whole gems policy and the way items will be traded and at which prices.
It would also say that it’s pretty difficult to add craft able legendarily now – current precursors and their crafted legendaries would just skyrocket. Same goes for the matts. There are two possibilties creating new ways of obtaining them by just over farming everything (making everything cheaper) or playing the trading post. Creating exorbitant prices due to high demand and low supply.
Just saying – the way currency exchange, changed over the last 8 months is crazy. Adding new things can be great, but adding things which alre clearly stupid – will just destroy the current prices on the trading post even more.
As it was already said numerous times, what we have now and what OP is proposing is not the same. Yes, we can already buy precursors with credit card => gems => gold. However, right now the price of the precursors is controlled by the flow of the market. If they were put in the gem store, either the price would be more or less fixed, or the gem exchange would crash. And if the price is fixed, this means prices of other things will change drastically.
As far as I know, right now the only options on the gem store are:
– Buy an item that is not dropped elsewhere
– Buy an item you can’t trade to anyone
– Buy gold
That means that currently, there’s no way to simply generate a new item in the economy. All items you can buy with gold have either dropped to someone else, entering the economy legitimately, or cannot drop at all and have been bought by someone else. I an no economist, but I believe there is a very good reason for that.
I agree with OP, precursors could be sold from the gem store.
I expect the price to be somewhere around 10,000 gems. (and every now and then they could have a 10% off sale)
did you really think they would make it easier to buy with $$ than with gold?
Any change to the economy like this, even just the aquisition of precursors will have a dramatic effect on the economy as a whole. Look at the introduction of Ascended gear.
While the introduction of Ascended gear definitely had an effect on the TP market, it didn’t have any devastating effects. The economy changed but is it worse now than it was before? I personally don’t think so.
As for the gem-to-gold and gold-to-gems conversion rates, they tend to fluctuate a lot on a weekly basis, I don’t think the introduction of gemstore precursors will have a huge permanent effect on it. Maybe temporary, but not permanent.
I agree with OP, precursors could be sold from the gem store.
I expect the price to be somewhere around 10,000 gems. (and every now and then they could have a 10% off sale)
did you really think they would make it easier to buy with $$ than with gold?
LMAO 10,000 gems? That doesn’t make any sense. That would make gem store precursors more expensive then simply getting gems, converting them to gold and then buying the precursor from the TP.
8,000 gems would make more sense. That would make the gemstore precursors a little cheaper than the TP precursors, but not by a lot.
I agree with OP, precursors could be sold from the gem store.
I expect the price to be somewhere around 10,000 gems. (and every now and then they could have a 10% off sale)
did you really think they would make it easier to buy with $$ than with gold?
LMAO 10,000 gems? That doesn’t make any sense. That would make gem store precursors more expensive then simply getting gems, converting them to gold and then buying the precursor from the TP.
8,000 gems would make more sense. That would make the gemstore precursors a little cheaper than the TP precursors, but not by a lot.
:) I’m glad the point was not missed.
Why would you expect it to be cheaper if you pay to win instead of play to win? Look at everything else they sell that you could get in-game. 600 gems for a exotic weapon? why would you pay that instead of buying one for 2g? even BL tickets; you get 2 tickets every ~50 keys, so which would you rather spend to get one of those skins: 2100 gems or 80g?
The only trouble with the suggestion is that the amount of gems would have to be dynamic, so it could be increased or decreased as the maximum-priced-precursor changes.
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
How’s this pay to win? PvP stats are equalised and legendaries don’t offer much of a stat difference tonother gear.
I could understand you saying it’s pay to win if gear stats were a massive factor in pvp, or if legendary gear offered insane stat boosts, but they don’t
Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
How’s this pay to win? PvP stats are equalised and legendaries don’t offer much of a stat difference tonother gear.
I could understand you saying it’s pay to win if gear stats were a massive factor in pvp, or if legendary gear offered insane stat boosts, but they don’t
Of course it’s not. But as I said earlier, the legendaries are about the skins. And for many the aqusition of skins is “winning” the game. If you make these skins (precursors into legendaries) buyable through the gem store, then for many the game becomes “pay to win”. With the stats being maxed with ascended, stats don’t really matter, as it’s only a ~5% difference between exotic and ascended. It’s the ascended skins that make them more desirable, rather then the stats.
So the skins is what I was referring to when I said “pay to win”.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Precursors in the gem store = Pay to win. Period. There really is no other way to look at it. Crafting a legendary is the end game, but now you put it behind a pay wall. A move like this would be a terible, terrible, terrible, most horrible and Grenth blasted idea ever.
No.
How’s this pay to win? PvP stats are equalised and legendaries don’t offer much of a stat difference tonother gear.
I could understand you saying it’s pay to win if gear stats were a massive factor in pvp, or if legendary gear offered insane stat boosts, but they don’t
Of course it’s not. But as I said earlier, the legendaries are about the skins. And for many the aqusition of skins is “winning” the game. If you make these skins (precursors into legendaries) buyable through the gem store, then for many the game becomes “pay to win”. With the stats being maxed with ascended, stats don’t really matter, as it’s only a ~5% difference between exotic and ascended. It’s the ascended skins that make them more desirable, rather then the stats.
So the skins is what I was referring to when I said “pay to win”.
I think I get the gist of the point here. Although I don’t have any “skin” in this argument one way or the other (sorry for the pun)…a couple of points seem relevant.
First, I can already use real money to buy a precursor. All I have to do is buy gems and convert to gold and purchase it on the TP. While there may well be philosophical implications beyond my understanding, practically speaking…at least for the purchaser, it is largely transparent…buy from the gem store or buy from the TP with gold obtained through the gem store (exchange). So, if having the precursor in the gem store is “pay to win” then…it is already pay to win…just with an extra step involved.
The second point, though, would give me pause about putting them in the gem store. In all likelihood, this would impact the prices of precursors on the TP and would affect both buyers and sellers. I am neither a buyer nor seller of precursors so it does not much matter to me one way or the other. But…all things considered, I would probably go with not having them in the gems store…not because of “pay to win” issues but rather the potential to impact the game economy.
Its almost like that already. There is nothing awesome about precursors or legendaries anymore because they’re a common day occurance.
For the sake of stability, putting accountbound precursors in the gemstore is only going to hurt precursor demand. However, speculating that its going to have a massive hit on the market is an overstatement. There are not that many people who feel a legendary as a beautiful weapon or a means of accomplishment, but more as endgame or a badge showing off how much of a life you don’t have or how much RNG has tipped in your favor.
It wouldn’t matter very much if precursors were put in the gemstore at around TP price because you can already buy them with cash. And even then, I doubt many players will go through with buying one. They might be popular but they aren’t THAT popular.
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“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
