Guild Wars 2

I am spending more time in my bags than actually playing the game. Why? Because you give us so much loot you’d make the Borderlands game designers jealous.

So here’s a simple suggestion that would greatly improve QoL…
Remove Minor runes/sigils from the game entirely.
They are utterly useless, nobody use them and their vendor value makes it so that discarding them entirely is more money effective than selling them because the time you’ll save from having to go to a vendor every time you fill your bags is worth more than those runes/sigils.

snaplemouton.1294:

I am spending more time in my bags than actually playing the game. Why? Because you give us so much loot you’d make the Borderlands game designers jealous.

So here’s a simple suggestion that would greatly improve QoL…
Remove Minor runes/sigils from the game entirely.
They are utterly useless, nobody use them and their vendor value makes it so that discarding them entirely is more money effective than selling them because the time you’ll save from having to go to a vendor every time you fill your bags is worth more than those runes/sigils.

no, just no. If you are still leveling in the original way (without tombs, etc. Just events and exploration), then you use them. Even keyruns use them frequently and some ppl throw them into the forge (and sometimes get sth. nice). If you dont want them salvage with a kit with a low rate of getting these (0-10%).

I don’t know of anyone who ever bothered with minor runes when leveling. It’s more of an hindrance to juggle with runes before level 80 than anything.
Key runs shouldn’t even be a thing in the first place and Sigil of speed is the only minor sigil that is used for it.
Using the mystic forge for them is the only excuse to keep em in game and even that is a sad excuse. 20% chance to get a major rune/sigil out of 4 minor and 20% to get superior out of a major will take you on average 400 minor runes to get even 1 superior. And the chance to get a Superior worth a kitten (Like Scholar) is close to none.

Better option.

Allow players to create a customized list of “junk.” They can add anything they want to it. Anything on that list will be sold to vendors when you hit the “Sell Junk” button.

Rhyse.8179:

Better option.

Allow players to create a customized list of “junk.” They can add anything they want to it. Anything on that list will be sold to vendors when you hit the “Sell Junk” button.

You still have the problem of Minor runes/sigils clogging up your inventory.

I delete them because I don’t want to go find a vendor in the middle of an event.

Never bothered with minor sigils/runes while leveling, not even with my first character, if the weapon have a somewhat nice sigil it’s fine, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to change them until major sigils are available. Minor runes are completely useless.

If you don’t bother it’s your attitude. I do use them and maybe many others too (who knows).

snaplemouton.1294:

Key runs shouldn’t even be a thing in the first place

I’m curious about this part – can you eloborate?

Tornupto.2304:

If you don’t bother it’s your attitude. I do use them and maybe many others too (who knows).

honestly you must be the only one

the same topic reappears every month or so. The problem exists for years, yet nothing has been done because
1) it may be difficult to program something like that without breaking something else (just speculation, no idea)
2) having trouble with space may drive you to buy more bags, thus spending gems, thus greater probability to use real money (you get my point)

last couple of months I also find myself destroying the small runes cause it is just faster than finding a vendor. Specially in multi-loot Tarir the problem is real, you have to clear inventory at least twice. Oh well…

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

snaplemouton.1294:

Key runs shouldn’t even be a thing in the first place

I’m curious about this part – can you eloborate?

Do I really have to elaborate on why it’s bad design that the game reward people for leveling a character to level 10, deleting it and repeating the process non stop?

snaplemouton.1294:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

snaplemouton.1294:

Key runs shouldn’t even be a thing in the first place

I’m curious about this part – can you eloborate?

Do I really have to elaborate on why it’s bad design that the game reward people for leveling a character to level 10, deleting it and repeating the process non stop?

The reward (BL-Key) is just once a week.

give the infinite salvage tools an option to set them to:
- dont salvage any ugprades -

that would be awesome

because any sane person that would want to salvage an expensive upgrade would only ever use the black lion salvage kit
for everything else the upgrades you salvage feel like 100% useless junk to 50% of the community… (and 100% of people that i know)
any efficient playing person is more annoyed of those salvaged upgrades than happy about those few coppers that are by far not worth the annoyance in my opinion

A check box for “auto discard minor runes” would go a long way while keeping them in the game for those who would use them.

There is already a button to automatically deposit all mats. Why not same button to sell instantly all junk items? That won’t solve the minor runes problem (if there’s one), but it would certainly save time and space in the inventory. Of course you would still need to go to a vendor to buy supplies (kits, tools etc.).

Asclepios.4295:

There is already a button to automatically deposit all mats.

I did not know this. You may have made my day if I can find it.

I make money off them … don’t get rid of them. A lot of times even the minor ones will sell on the TP for more than 5 times the merch price for them. Sometimes it’s a whole lot more than that.

Hesacon.8735:

Asclepios.4295:

There is already a button to automatically deposit all mats.

I did not know this. You may have made my day if I can find it.

On the top right corner of your inventory, there is a menu to manage it. Deposit all mats is the first option.

Asclepios.4295:

Hesacon.8735:

Asclepios.4295:

There is already a button to automatically deposit all mats.

I did not know this. You may have made my day if I can find it.

On the top right corner of your inventory, there is a menu to manage it. Deposit all mats is the first option.

Oh, I thought you meant a material was collected and it got deposited without me thinking about it.

What I would like to see is a vendor button for minor runes and junk/trophy items. No matter where you are you can hit the vendor option and runes and junk leave your inventory and the coppers/silver from them appear in your wallet.

This would allow you to clear out your inventory at will without making a special trip to a vendor and would allow those who mystic forge or TP sell the runes to do so. It also would mean that salvage kits wouldn’t need to be reworked to not produce runes.

I like the extra dribble of income from vendoring the trophies and minor runes.

Also, vendoring such things is very vital to the economy as it is a source of creating gold. People tend to think it’s not much, but it actually is… such as in the AB Octovine, I usually get enough trophies and minor runes to make 1 to 1.5 silver (sans any shiny baubles)… if the majority of the people are also selling and getting as much or more (like those doing multi-map), then that’s easily a gold or two being introduced into the economy every Octo event from minor runes and trophies alone… yeah, I get there’s a lot of assumptions in all of what I just said.

There’s always a merchant nearby in the HoT maps where metas are concerned. And those few times when there’s not, someone always summons one.

MMOs are not about making playing be as efficient and quick as possible; they are designed to keep you in the game and playing as long/often as possible. It’s something the player must adjust to, ‘cause the game isn’t going to adjust to the player. This includes taking the time to sell to vendors and/or manage your inventory.

~EW

I have suggested this before, and I still want it. Give the functionality to Copper/Silver fed (at the very least) salvage kits to right click them and toggle between “Salvage Runes/Sigils” or “Delete Runes/Sigils”. If you select Delete, you will get a little icon, similar to how a item gets when it is damaged/broken to notify you that it’s selected. You could also get an extra string of warning when using a kit that is selected “Delete” when salvaging Exotics+, as you may really not mean to delete runes from those.

@EW A couple gold per octovine event is a trivial amount compared to the 2 gold per player per day doing dailies. I doubt it impacts the economy at all.

I would be happy if we could mark them as junk somehow.

A better suggestion!!!

Make all Minor, Major and Superior Sigils SALVAGABLE into Dust

Minor Sigil salvaged = Chance to obtain Tier 1-3 Dust
Major Sigil salvaged = Chance to obtain Tier 4-5 Dust
Superior Sigil salvaged = Guaranteed Tier 6 Dust

this way would become especially the Sigils of all tiers more valuable, because if you have no use for a sigil, then you know at least, you can make something useful in form of materials (dust) out of it … and especialyl the sigils that have nearly to no value would receive then more value based on the values of the dust that you can get out of the sigils when you salvage them …

Means, all for example Tier 6 sigils that have currently no value, because the sigils are so useless, no butt wants them ever worth like only maybe 1 silver or so would then suddenly have at least the worth of the Tier 6 dust you could get out of that sigil, when you salvage it …

OriOri.8724:

@EW A couple gold per octovine event is a trivial amount compared to the 2 gold per player per day doing dailies. I doubt it impacts the economy at all.

I would be happy if we could mark them as junk somehow.

It’s not about comparing how much gold is created, it’s about considering the various sources which noticeably impact the game’s economy. The octovine was just an easy example of a single slice in time done by a couple/few hundred players. You could compare that specific slice of time to the one for the dailies. But trophies, minor sigils/runes, and other things vendored happen at a constant basis throughout the game day by ALL players (thousands). Where as the dailies are a one-and-done per player in a day (at a large spike of gold), and they’re not necessarily done by all players. Both means create a lot of new gold… dailies are just more in-your-face about it.

Vendoring doesn’t create a trivial amount of new gold, even when the amount is trivial to a specific player. Not in this MMO, and not in any other.

~EW

Just keep them till you have 4 and throw them in the Mystic forge. Many will become Major Runes you can use or actually sell for profit.
I dedicate 15 spots in my bank for the most commonly looted ones and then take hundreds to the Forge and walk away with many useful major runes I use or reForge for Superior Runes.

Removing sigils and runes would further imbalance crafting. They’re important for the people that do need them. I do agree there is too much inventory management in HoT, but making HoT map currencies to open treasure chests would help. Some tips that can help you combat inventory management:
1) Do not salvage and/or open chests or bags until you’re ready to take a break.
2) Use sigils for the Mystic Forge so they have further use to you instead of cheap copper sales.
3) Deposit all collectables after each event is concluded.
I hope that helps!

Feels like people just don’t want this to happen because they are scared of changes. Not because they make “money” out of it or because they have a “use” for the minor sigils/runes.
Even if I suggested to make sigils and runes into collectibles so we could clear our inventory of all that crap and still have the sigils or runes, I can guarantee you people would say: “No! I enjoy having to deal with so much crap in my inventory!” Even if that would be a complete lie.
People are assuming too much things here. It won’t destroy the economy, not even one bit. The 16 copper from 99% of the minor sigils/runes won’t do kitten to the economy and the couple silvers from the other 1% of sigils/runes won’t do kitten either.
The mystic forge isn’t a secret way to make money out of sigils/runes, if you get a Superior Scholar rune out of minor runes, you better go buy a lottery ticket right away before your luck fade away.

Minor sigils/runes AREN’T VITAL to the economy, they are junk that have very little to no value with some very odd and far between exception.
Compared to the frustration they offer when clogging up your inventory and constantly having to delete them or find a vendor to get rid of them, removing them entirely (Or making them collectibles for those cry babies who still want them) would be an improvement to the game.

People disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing. You can see people here aren’t actually doing anything with their minor sigils/runes and just throw them to the vendor.

I never ‘throw my minor rune/sigils to the vendor’, nor do I delete them.

I don’t care if the Devs institute some options for them, but please don’t speak for me, or deign to know what I’m thinking or doing.

@Snaplemouton: here’s a vid about MMO economies done by Extra Credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

It mostly focuses on inflation and managing inflation, but there’s also a lot of other useful info about MMO economics that you seem to not yet understand. It’s good information to have regardless if the video isn’t completely on the same topic as this thread.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

@Snaplemouton: here’s a vid about MMO economies done by Extra Credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

It mostly focuses on inflation and managing inflation, but there’s also a lot of other useful info about MMO economics that you seem to not yet understand. It’s good information to have regardless if the video isn’t completely on the same topic as this thread.

~EW

Wow, resorting to a video with vaguely relevant info to prove a point that doesn’t apply as much here.

1 – If people vendor around 100000 sigils a day that’s about 160 gold being added to the economy, I don’t know if this estimate is over or under the reality, but even 10 times this quantity are almost irrelevant compared to the gold generated from other sources, mainly dailies and dungeons. and baubles from map rewards. Probably less than 2% of the gold generated in a day.

2 – Considering the current situation it’s more likely that removing minor sigils will REDUCE inflation.

As they are now, they are just an annoyance to waste time on inventory management.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

@Snaplemouton: here’s a vid about MMO economies done by Extra Credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

It mostly focuses on inflation and managing inflation, but there’s also a lot of other useful info about MMO economics that you seem to not yet understand. It’s good information to have regardless if the video isn’t completely on the same topic as this thread.

~EW

Less sigils/runes = less gold in game = less inflation = gold now has higher value

Removing Sigils/Runes won’t make gold have too much value and even if it does, they can always reduce the Waypoint cost by 0.1% to reduce gold value and keep a semblance of balance regarding economy.

I understand economy and I certainly understand that removing minor runes/sigils can be done. They have all the data they need. If after a month of no minor runes/sigils gold start having too much value, they can sink it back by reducing the cost on a service that sink said gold.

There is something called “Fun” that is usually the biggest problems for any MMO. Improving the quality of life of players without overdoing it is usually a great way to improve “Fun” for the majority of players.
Managing inventory in the middle of an event ISN’T FUN.

Orpheal.8263:

A better suggestion!!!

Make all Minor, Major and Superior Sigils SALVAGABLE into Dust

Minor Sigil salvaged = Chance to obtain Tier 1-3 Dust
Major Sigil salvaged = Chance to obtain Tier 4-5 Dust
Superior Sigil salvaged = Guaranteed Tier 6 Dust

this way would become especially the Sigils of all tiers more valuable, because if you have no use for a sigil, then you know at least, you can make something useful in form of materials (dust) out of it … and especialyl the sigils that have nearly to no value would receive then more value based on the values of the dust that you can get out of the sigils when you salvage them …

Means, all for example Tier 6 sigils that have currently no value, because the sigils are so useless, no butt wants them ever worth like only maybe 1 silver or so would then suddenly have at least the worth of the Tier 6 dust you could get out of that sigil, when you salvage it …

I’m so totally for this to happen. The only times I get the TP error message is putting up kitten ed minor sigils/runes for sale. I’d much rather be able to salvage em down into dust which I at least have a use for.

@snaplemouton: ANet is purposely trying to inflate the economy right now. I was hoping you’d catch on to that. And, they’re succeeding. To what ends, I don’t know, but I doubt it’s to phase out the gold created by vendor trash. It’s as important have a source of gold creation as it is to have a gold sink, and to suggest removing something vital to gold creation w/o thinking of the economic influence is not looking at the bigger picture. It’s likely not as simple as turn off valve 1, and turn up valve 2 (even though EC simplified it to that extent, oh well). Those are the points I’ve been trying to make.

@nsleep: It’s a shame you didn’t bother reading what I said around that link, when I admitted that it wasn’t about this topic specifically, but had some pertinent concepts important to understand. But, thanks for taking the time to watch it… EC is one of those series very important to gaming and the gaming communities.

~EW

snaplemouton.1294:

I don’t know of anyone who ever bothered with minor runes when leveling. It’s more of an hindrance to juggle with runes before level 80 than anything.
Key runs shouldn’t even be a thing in the first place and Sigil of speed is the only minor sigil that is used for it.

I use them when leveling.

For the runes, I generally go with 6 different ones that each give +10 Power. +60 power at low levels makes a huge difference.

For Sigils, I tend to go with Speed and Bloodlust. Even after it was nerfed, Minor Sigil of Bloodlust gives +50 power once you’ve built it up. Add that to the runes, and you’ve got +110 power while you’re running around at level 10-39. (Can’t buy helm/shoulders before then, and at level 40 you’re ready to move on to better ones.) It makes things a LOT easier.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

IMMOs are not about making playing be as efficient and quick as possible; they are designed to keep you in the game and playing as long/often as possible. It’s something the player must adjust to, ‘cause the game isn’t going to adjust to the player. This includes taking the time to sell to vendors and/or manage your inventory.

I disagree with this. GW2 generally (not always, but generally) has broken ground since launch by trying to make things more efficient and easier for the player with QoL improvements to avoid situations like this.

Things like deposit items, salvaging on the go, waypoints, fast access to banks, crafting tabs accessing all your storages. These are just some way the game is adjusted for its players, so the players are spared the hassle. It is an important pillar of this game.

Scrapping them entirely like one suggestion earlier would be silly, I have used them and I know plenty who do. I have met swathes of players who don’t even equip rares and exotics and so are still using these at 80. So they are used.

The easiest solution would probably be a tab in the mats storage and then we could dump them later.

The other possibility is to add a function to the TP which acts identical to an NPC vendor. I find the NPC vendor a bit outdated anyway – it makes little sense for a random soldier in the jungle to want my junk. IF the TP had an “NPC vendor” option when we right clicked, it would prob solve the issue outright.

Excelvior.8520:

Tornupto.2304:

If you don’t bother it’s your attitude. I do use them and maybe many others too (who knows).

honestly you must be the only one

the same topic reappears every month or so. The problem exists for years, yet nothing has been done because
1) it may be difficult to program something like that without breaking something else (just speculation, no idea)
2) having trouble with space may drive you to buy more bags, thus spending gems, thus greater probability to use real money (you get my point)

last couple of months I also find myself destroying the small runes cause it is just faster than finding a vendor. Specially in multi-loot Tarir the problem is real, you have to clear inventory at least twice. Oh well…

He is not the only one. When leveling new characters I use weapon sigils all the time. I also have no problem at all with bag space or selling runes to a vendor.

Best suggestion I’ve seen here though is to make the runes and sigils salvageable. But completely removing something that even a few people use just to make things easier for people that don’t pay attention to their bag space and plan accordingly is a bad way to go.

What about reworking the rune/sigil system so that minor runes are worthwhile?

Even better…
A collection in the bank for sigils and runes. They are not crafting mats but we do get a lot of them, would love it if they deposited into the bank at the very very bottom out of the way. That way you can collect them and sell them in bulk in the future.

Also a sell from Bank option would be nice, to left click and list the item in your bank to the TP without having to take it out and such.