Guild Wars 2

Viking Jorun.5413:

Buffing one class due to a new item being added that nullifies the way said class stands out isn’t power creep.

You just defined power creep. Buff mesmers and then mesmer + runes of perplexity will be a whole new level of over powered.

Martolly.2576:

hi for the “apply on interrupt” what actual abilities count as this?

Thank you sorry if it was already posted above.

Any skill that applies a Control Effect and pops up with an Interrupt on your screen. Fear is not a control skill, it’s a condition.

Mada.5319:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Buffing one class due to a new item being added that nullifies the way said class stands out isn’t power creep.

You just defined power creep. Buff mesmers and then mesmer + runes of perplexity will be a whole new level of over powered.

Except Mesmer’s have had so few buffs and so many nerfs that it’d be hard to make them overpowered with this rune.

If you look at it, the main way of getting Confusion on an opponent is either being Shatter (scales with damage, not condition damage), Glamour (relatively long cooldown for 5 seconds of Confusion, 8 when traited/fooded, condition damage build), or by being an Asura with Pain Inverter AND being one of the above.

If you were, however, a Shatter Mesmer, you could stack about 20 Confusion on a really bad enemy if you were able to micro-manage and position well. Of course, you’re still going to be a Direct Damage dealer, not a Condition Damage dealer.

If you were a Glamour Mesmer, you’re most likely not going to have access to a full arsenal of Interrupts.

A full arsenal of Mesmer Interrupts is:
Utilities
Signet of Domination (1s Cast, 3s Stun, kitten Cooldown) (Traited: 36s Cooldown)
Mantra of Distraction (0s Cast, 1s Daze, 5s Cooldown + 2.75 Precast + 30s Cooldown Between 2 Charges) (Traited: 3 Charges, 24s Cooldown Precast)
Technobabble (3s Daze, kitten Cooldown, Asura Racial)

Shatters
Diversion (0s Cast, 1s Daze, kitten Cooldown, up to 4 hits) (Traited: Diversion is AoE, You can explode as well, 36s Cooldown)

Weapons
Counter Blade (1s Daze, 15s Cooldown) (Traited: 12s Cooldown)
Illusionary Wave (450 Knockback, 30s Cooldown) (Traited: 24s Cooldown)
Magic Bullet (2s Stun, 2s Daze, 25s Cooldown) (Traited: 20s Cooldown)
Chaos Storm (1s Daze, 0-25 Unpredictable Daze, 35s Cooldown) (Traited; 28s Cooldown)
Temporal Curtain (600 Pull, 25s Cooldown) (Traited: 20s Cooldown)

So you’ll have, at most, access to 12 interrupts (2 weapons, + 3 mantra shots, + signet, + racial, + iPersona shatter).

If you count getting 5 dazes on 5 targets with a Chaos Storm (highly improbable, and impossible to stack the interrupts as it’ll perma-daze them), you will have 36 interrupts.

If we count single target only, you can potentially maintain Confusion on an opponent, but you’d have to trait specifically for interrupting (all the Interrupt traits are spread out across multiple diverse, annoying traitlines).

The reason why we’re complaining is because these Runes outshine any form of Confusion a Mesmer can inflict, and we, before this Rune, had access to the most methods of inflicting Confusion.

This one Rune basically throws any Confusion Mesmer out the window because there’s no way we can keep up with it. (Note: If you were to run with full interrupts as your build, you’d have no method of dealing damage as you’d want to trait into them for cooldown reduction, and your build would look something like 10/20/30/0/10 or 0/20/30/0/20 or 20/0/30/0/20 or 20/0/20/0/30.)

What selan’s argument is saying is that we got our Confusion nerfed because applying Confusion in an AoE to a zerg is OP, then Anet goes and releases a Rune that allows people to apply Confusion in an AoE to a zerg. Wait a minute…

Tl;dr: I don’t care that everyone has access to Confusion, that’s not my problem. My problem is that there is no purpose in being a Confusion Mesmer (which used to be a build, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away).

Esplen – You are right, these runes do allow AoE confusion to be applied to a zerg and I fully agree that if mesmers aren’t allowed to do that, then no rune should allow players to do that either, regardless of class. A simple ICD on the 6-piece bonus would alleviate that.

The issue I have with selan’s argument is that she has claimed directly that this rune will make confusion on the mesmer useless or that we will be relegated to “portal bots.” She also talks about confusion on mesmers with a sense of entitlement, as if it should be a condition exclusive to a few professions. The fact is, these runes are useful for a number of classes/builds and many mesmers are making great use of them. The added confusion duration benefits us more than other classes because we have skills for applying conditions other than the runes. We have a vast number of interrupts as well. Signet of Domination, Magic Bullet, Distortion, and Chaos Storm can all be used in a condition build without sacrificing anything, unlike a hammer warrior using these runes.

I find selan’s hyperbolic rhetoric about how this rune destroys mesmers to be completely counterproductive. If people want to discuss this rune, they should be talking specifically about which classes and builds are abusing the rune and how/why it should be altered. Many people have already done that in the various threads about this rune, and I thank them for that. However, there are others who are peppering the discussion with doomsday remarks about how this is the end of the mesmer. Such opinionated remarks only serve to derail any objective conversation about the rune.

Also, while I have mourned the passing of the confusion mesmer, I believe that stacking one condition is inherently flawed because of the way cleansing works. Confusion stacking was only effective because it did so much damage, even with just a few stacks. Was a 50% nerf too much? Probably. But it did need to be toned down, and the amount of confusion a mesmer could apply to a zerg was ridiculous. Once again, they over-nerfed glamour builds, but the fact remains that, based on the decisions the devs have made thus far with confusion, confusion was not meant to be the sole source of damage for any build.

TL;DR: I’m confident that these runes will be brought in-line so as not to provide overwhelming AoE confusion. However, if we want to actually talk about how this rune needs adjusting, we need to move past all the subjective, incredibly biased language about how this rune is somehow destroying the mesmer class.

Viking Jorun.5413:

selan.8354:

Palu.3405:

Rodigee.7139:

What in the world is happening in this thread?

Mesmers do not own confusion. Have you ever heard of engineers? These runes are not an attack on mesmers. Yes, these runes give whoever uses them a good source of confusion ( including mesmers…). I think this is a good thing because they open up a lot of new and interesting condition builds.

Thank you! I don’t understand how or why some people think confusion (or any condition, for that matter) belongs to just one class. It’s like complaining about the fear from Runes of the Nightmare because “fear is a necro thing.”

This rune does not hurt mesmers in any way. We have just as much access to it as any other class. In fact, because we have lots of interrupts, a trait that increases confusion duration by 33%, and skills that inflict confusion, we gain more by using these runes than any other class.

Selan has already been very vocal about his concerns about this rune on the mesmer forum (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/New-Rune-for-condi-mesmers/first). While there’s nothing wrong with bringing this topic to a larger audience for discussion, I would challenge him and anyone else who thinks these runes are overpowered to actually try them out on the classes you think they would be overpowered on. Provide the community with a video of the runes in action, or at least with a numerical summary of what they did and why they’re unbalanced.

I’ve been using these runes since the patch, and while they’re a nice dps increase for me, I’ve yet to see them do anything overpowered. Maybe I’m using them wrong, but it seems to me that any skilled opponent I’ve faced so far simply cleanses the confusion or stops spamming skills for a while.

first of all im a girl, secondly warriors had fear since beginning of the game. i never said that confusion is an only mesmer thing, but as it is right now it does what a confusion mesmer does, but way better. they nerfed bb trait on mesmers to make it harder to stack confusion and along comes a rune. plus none of our confusions evr lasted for 10 seconds. all of them have 3-5 seconds. and if u wantproof, go to wvw forums and check the sreenshots of warriors and thieves with that rune.

a mesmer has to give up a lot if he wanted to be able to viably stack confusion. we have no dps in return,especially as glam mesmers. thats why im concerned as a confusion mesmer has been replaced by a rune!
btw no need to point me out.gotta see that as a confision mesmer since start and way befor glam mesmers, this rune makes me very upset!

So buff the mesmer, don’t nerf the rune. On another note, engineer Asura have always been able to stack confusion better than mesmers when they use p/s and pain inverter. That’s including after the PI nerf.

erm buff the mesmer and nerf the rune i would say, it is too powerful as it is.

@palu u dont need to rant about me like that. just to make thisng clear i never said it was a mesmer ONLY thing, i said it was a mesmers specialty, which if u look up the classes description made by anet, makes sense right?
yes, i am upset over an overpowered rune and no i never said its is a class only condition, but every class is sorta specialized in certain conditions. some are better with applying bleeds, some are great with poision and yes engis and mesers were great with confusion and if u would have red what i answered u would know that i already mentioned that engis are better in confusion apply than us.

the issue i have is that we do have the ability to infilct confusion on a zerg, but we give up a lot for that to be viable and after everything we tried after the hard nerf, here comes the rune, that does it wayy better, longer and unlimited withoud icd’s.
so yeah this hurts me as a mesmer as we were nerfed so hard and now they bring out a rune that gives what they took from us to other classes, but better! that is how it feels for me and thats not ok!