Guild Wars 2

So apparently some player was suspended for griefing the maize balm farm:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2l21xk/actually_game_master_can_ban_for_preventing_maize/

The guy repeatedly killed ambients that the farmers had “reserved” for themselves.

Are we to read from this that repeatedly killing champs that champ farmers have “reserved” for themselves is suspension-worthy griefing as well?

…that all those QD champ farmers who were complaining about champs being killed out of order repeatedly were actually the ones in the right?

Question, since I don’t do that farm. I thought that area was instanced. How was he getting into the other people’s instance to grief them?

This is very bad news for the game. Does this mean Anet are going to side with the abusive farmers every time now, as opposed to players who play the game as intended? In other farms such as Coil, Blix and the Queensdale champ train, players who played the game normally were targetted with death threats, insults and harassment.

Now Anet seems to have done a u-turn (again) and is supporting the farmers and BANNING people who play the game normally?

There are so, so many players who – on a daily basis – log into the game and proceed to break most of the rules in the ToC. When such players are reported, Anet does exactly nothing at all about it. How on earth can they justify suspending someone for “griefing” (a term which farmers apply to anybody who interrupts their farm, no matter the reason) when the guy was just killing monsters? Does that mean that level 80s who kill all the event monsters in a starter zone before a new player can tag them should be banned too?

This is a bizarre and worrying case. One particularly strange thing is that an Anet employee commented on the case (I thought it was their policy not to comment on actions taken on other players’ accounts?) in a public forum.

The whole maize farm thing is a complete mess – it’s a sign of a company that goes back on its own rules. Frankly, Anet have lost the plot, and are quickly becoming the laughing stock of the MMO community.

Astral Projections.7320:

Question, since I don’t do that farm. I thought that area was instanced. How was he getting into the other people’s instance to grief them?

Where this occurred was the area in Rata Sum people have been using that is open to everyone.

As for this topic. Its a strange thing to me. I assume they made this item as a “fun” item. But it turned into such a huge deal when in the players hands. Sadly its just disappointing to see how it has been handled compared to things in the past.

Edit: Guess I should clarify that as far as the actions of the GM seems sound. Griefing is only a piece of the pie at this point, and honestly a small one. Just this whole thing with the Balms in general is really ridiculous and fueled by the poor decisions on dealing with the item in general. Yet again, it feels like ANet made an item that they failed to see how the players would react with it.

Umm, don’t read too much into this. I agree that the maize balm situation is somewhat weird…but who knows how this will develop after Halloween is over.

Besides, ambient critters serve no purpose and farming them like this doesn’t hinder anyone from completing their quests like it did in Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound.

And in the situation mentioned on reddit the guy that was disturbing their farm was intentionally stopping them from farming critters. So yeah, he was griefing and A-Net dealt with him accordingly

Kurogami.9210:

Umm, don’t read too much into this. I agree that the maize balm situation is somewhat weird…but who knows how this will develop after Halloween is over.

Besides, ambient critters serve no purpose and farming them like this doesn’t hinder anyone from completing their quests like it did in Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound.

And in the situation mentioned on reddit the guy that was disturbing their farm was intentionally stopping them from farming critters. So yeah, he was griefing and A-Net dealt with him accordingly

No, they dealt with him irrationally. He was killing monsters in the game. Last time I checked, that’s allowed…

There’s a response from an Anet employee in the reddit thread. The player in question was moved away from the area and warned not to continue his behavior but deliberately disobeyed and went back to continue griefing. This was directly observed by an Anet GM and appropriate action was taken.

Whether you agree with them or not, when a GM specifically tells you “don’t do that,” don’t do that.

And for what purpose did he kill them?

The point here is that this player was doing this on intention, to keep the others from farming. Apparently his client language was english, but he refused to reply and explain himself to the said GM. He came back after he had been sent out of the area.
So…do you really think this player had honest, game-related intentions instead of just griefing?
In my opinion, the GM acted right and as he should have.
PS: In before someone comes up with slayer or weaponmaster achievements, keep in mind you don’t know what this player came for. And even if he came for those, doing the achievements there is always a single-player thing. Therefore, if the spot is blocked, he would have to find another anyway.

Suspension was a bit much, but if the guy was only doing it to annoy the other players, then yeah he should’ve been punished.

tolunart.2095:

There’s a response from an Anet employee in the reddit thread. The player in question was moved away from the area and warned not to continue his behavior but deliberately disobeyed and went back to continue griefing. This was directly observed by an Anet GM and appropriate action was taken.

Whether you agree with them or not, when a GM specifically tells you “don’t do that,” don’t do that.

So if you were running along and saw, say, a group of moas and started killing them… and then an Anet CSR messaged you saying “please stop killing these moas” you’d stop?

What about if you were walking down the street and a police officer stopped you and asked to search you for no reason? Would you be okay with that too?

People who have power often abuse their power. Blindly following instructions isn’t a good thing. The player in question wasn’t doing anything wrong. Killing ANY monster in this game is completely fine. If that’s no longer the case, then that means players can be banned for (as I suggested earlier) logging onto a level 80 character and killing all the monsters in a starter-zone event before another player has time to tag. That level 80 is “griefing” the lowbies – but I’m sure most people here would agree that any monster is fair game…

The point is you can’t pick and choose when to apply rules, especially when the rules are “I just feel like banning you for ‘griefing’ because some greedy players whined about you.”

My father is a retired cop. That’s all I have to say about that.

warduke.1780:

tolunart.2095:

There’s a response from an Anet employee in the reddit thread. The player in question was moved away from the area and warned not to continue his behavior but deliberately disobeyed and went back to continue griefing. This was directly observed by an Anet GM and appropriate action was taken.

Whether you agree with them or not, when a GM specifically tells you “don’t do that,” don’t do that.

So if you were running along and saw, say, a group of moas and started killing them… and then an Anet CSR messaged you saying “please stop killing these moas” you’d stop?

What about if you were walking down the street and a police officer stopped you and asked to search you for no reason? Would you be okay with that too?

People who have power often abuse their power. Blindly following instructions isn’t a good thing. The player in question wasn’t doing anything wrong. Killing ANY monster in this game is completely fine. If that’s no longer the case, then that means players can be banned for (as I suggested earlier) logging onto a level 80 character and killing all the monsters in a starter-zone event before another player has time to tag. That level 80 is “griefing” the lowbies – but I’m sure most people here would agree that any monster is fair game…

The point is you can’t pick and choose when to apply rules, especially when the rules are “I just feel like banning you for ‘griefing’ because some greedy players whined about you.”

It was probably not stated clear enough. Said player was moved to his own overflow where he could farm the Lightning Bugs as long as he wanted.
He came back to the other overflow to interrupt the Balm farmers. He got warned again. His account got suspended.

Nia.3964:

warduke.1780:

tolunart.2095:

There’s a response from an Anet employee in the reddit thread. The player in question was moved away from the area and warned not to continue his behavior but deliberately disobeyed and went back to continue griefing. This was directly observed by an Anet GM and appropriate action was taken.

Whether you agree with them or not, when a GM specifically tells you “don’t do that,” don’t do that.

So if you were running along and saw, say, a group of moas and started killing them… and then an Anet CSR messaged you saying “please stop killing these moas” you’d stop?

What about if you were walking down the street and a police officer stopped you and asked to search you for no reason? Would you be okay with that too?

People who have power often abuse their power. Blindly following instructions isn’t a good thing. The player in question wasn’t doing anything wrong. Killing ANY monster in this game is completely fine. If that’s no longer the case, then that means players can be banned for (as I suggested earlier) logging onto a level 80 character and killing all the monsters in a starter-zone event before another player has time to tag. That level 80 is “griefing” the lowbies – but I’m sure most people here would agree that any monster is fair game…

The point is you can’t pick and choose when to apply rules, especially when the rules are “I just feel like banning you for ‘griefing’ because some greedy players whined about you.”

It was probably not stated clear enough. Said player was moved to his own overflow where he could farm the Lightning Bugs as long as he wanted.
He came back to the other overflow to interrupt the Balm farmers. He got warned again. His account got suspended.

Yeah, it’s clear to me that Anet made a very foolish mistake which will negatively impact on the future of the game.

Banned (temporary or otherwise) for killing ambients. Frankly don’t care if the farmers reserved" those ambients. If i wish to kill ambient creatures, I will.

Anet made its own grave with that balm by making those mobs drop ToTs.

Lack of foresight from anet here, not realizing this would happen.

Nerf the ToT drops from the transformed ambients and this problem ceases to be a problem.

Yeah, it’s clear to me that Anet made the right decision and I support them for that.

warduke.1780:

tolunart.2095:

There’s a response from an Anet employee in the reddit thread. The player in question was moved away from the area and warned not to continue his behavior but deliberately disobeyed and went back to continue griefing. This was directly observed by an Anet GM and appropriate action was taken.

Whether you agree with them or not, when a GM specifically tells you “don’t do that,” don’t do that.

So if you were running along and saw, say, a group of moas and started killing them… and then an Anet CSR messaged you saying “please stop killing these moas” you’d stop?

What about if you were walking down the street and a police officer stopped you and asked to search you for no reason? Would you be okay with that too?

People who have power often abuse their power. Blindly following instructions isn’t a good thing. The player in question wasn’t doing anything wrong. Killing ANY monster in this game is completely fine. If that’s no longer the case, then that means players can be banned for (as I suggested earlier) logging onto a level 80 character and killing all the monsters in a starter-zone event before another player has time to tag. That level 80 is “griefing” the lowbies – but I’m sure most people here would agree that any monster is fair game…

The point is you can’t pick and choose when to apply rules, especially when the rules are “I just feel like banning you for ‘griefing’ because some greedy players whined about you.”

Of course any monster is fine, but harassing player isn’t stop trying to play devil’s advocate, this person was not killing monsters, he was griefing, if those people weren’t there, he wouldn’t.

You’re claiming the player did nothing wrong. Don’t you think it’s wrong and bad player behaviour to come back to the overflow and kill the exact same bugs that the others did, allthough you had the opportunity to do it somewhere where it would have been way better?
What is the logic behind doing something at a worser location – besides harrassing other players?

Two points I gathered from the reddit..

" Player was moved from the map and placed in a different instance of the map
Player attempted multiple times to zone back into this specific version of the map, "

Those two points, if true, tell me that the player was intent on grieving one group of people. His intent was not to farm as he could have done that in the instance he was moved to, his intent was not to progress a quest or story as again he could have finished that in the second instance. In that he made many attempts to get back to a specific instance where he could grief a specific group of people then he deserves what he got.

Very bad decision on Anets said. It shouldnt matter why someone wants to kill something. Preventing people to “farm” something is very legit in my opinion, since its good for the economy.

Theftwind.8976:

Two points I gathered from the reddit..

" Player was moved from the map and placed in a different instance of the map
Player attempted multiple times to zone back into this specific version of the map, "

Those two points, if true, tell me that the player was intent on grieving one group of people. His intent was not to farm as he could have done that in the instance he was moved to, his intent was not to progress a quest or story as again he could have finished that in the second instance. In that he made many attempts to get back to a specific instance where he could grief a specific group of people then he deserves what he got.

Thanks for emphasizing. Any normal player who knows the details should judge and think this way.

Also, somehow, this makes me sad. Sad that US gets such a great anti-bad-player-behaviour support – and EU is kept alone.For instance, there is a very bad spammer on the DR-Map(most likely the one with a lot of Drakkar Lake players) I always end up. Person keeps chatting about genoicde to people who use smilies, all sorts of racist propaganda and stuff and threats on players life. If anyone from ArenaNet US reads this. Please help! EU Support does nothing…this is happening for over 2 years now! ;(

Nia.3964:

Theftwind.8976:

Two points I gathered from the reddit..

" Player was moved from the map and placed in a different instance of the map
Player attempted multiple times to zone back into this specific version of the map, "

Those two points, if true, tell me that the player was intent on grieving one group of people. His intent was not to farm as he could have done that in the instance he was moved to, his intent was not to progress a quest or story as again he could have finished that in the second instance. In that he made many attempts to get back to a specific instance where he could grief a specific group of people then he deserves what he got.

Thanks for emphasizing. Any normal player who knows the details should judge and think this way.

Also, somehow, this makes me sad. Sad that US gets such a great anti-bad-player-behaviour support – and EU is kept alone.For instance, there is a very bad spammer on the DR-Map(most likely the one with a lot of Drakkar Lake players) I always end up. Person keeps chatting about genoicde to people who use smilies, all sorts of racist propaganda and stuff and threats on players life. If anyone from ArenaNet US reads this. Please help! EU Support does nothing…this is happening for over 2 years now! ;(

its pretty rare to see a GM take action on any server. I have never seen it myself. Then again i am rarely involved in such conflicts.

Nia.3964:

You’re claiming the player did nothing wrong. Don’t you think it’s wrong and bad player behaviour to come back to the overflow and kill the exact same bugs that the others did, allthough you had the opportunity to do it somewhere where it would have been way better?
What is the logic behind doing something at a worser location – besides harrassing other players?

Funny how it’s always the same people defending the farmers.

The point is the guy didn’t actually do anything wrong. He was killing monsters. So what if other people wanted to kill those monsters too? They should have been faster. This is exactly the point of the current system – and most players are content with it.

The CSR in question clearly prioritised the desires of the farmers over another player. That’s not fair or right, and it sets a precedent that can only negatively impact on the game.

Do you wish to play an MMO in which the only remaining players are farmers who log in every day just to mash 1, and log out as soon as they’ve made X amount of gold?

warduke.1780:

Nia.3964:

You’re claiming the player did nothing wrong. Don’t you think it’s wrong and bad player behaviour to come back to the overflow and kill the exact same bugs that the others did, allthough you had the opportunity to do it somewhere where it would have been way better?
What is the logic behind doing something at a worser location – besides harrassing other players?

Funny how it’s always the same people defending the farmers.

The point is the guy didn’t actually do anything wrong. He was killing monsters. So what if other people wanted to kill those monsters too? They should have been faster. This is exactly the point of the current system – and most players are content with it.

The CSR in question clearly prioritised the desires of the farmers over another player. That’s not fair or right, and it sets a precedent that can only negatively impact on the game.

Do you wish to play an MMO in which the only remaining players are farmers who log in every day just to mash 1, and log out as soon as they’ve made X amount of gold?

He didn’t priorise anyone. Not greatly. He moved the single person out to another overflow of the same map. Where he could persue his interests. If it was priorising, it was priorising the majority, not the farmers per se.

warduke.1780:

So if you were running along and saw, say, a group of moas and started killing them… and then an Anet CSR messaged you saying “please stop killing these moas” you’d stop?

We agreed to that as part of the TOS.

warduke.1780:

What about if you were walking down the street and a police officer stopped you and asked to search you for no reason? Would you be okay with that too?

The game is private property, most streets are not.

warduke.1780:

People who have power often abuse their power. Blindly following instructions isn’t a good thing. The player in question wasn’t doing anything wrong.

When on private property following the instructions of the owners (or their representatives) is a good thing.

Yes the player was doing something wrong. The only people who get to decide what is wrong on private property are the owners (and their representatives).

warduke.1780:

The point is you can’t pick and choose when to apply rules, especially when the rules are “I just feel like banning you for ‘griefing’ because some greedy players whined about you.”

He was banned for violating the TOS, not for killing ambients. He was directed to cease an action by an individual whose directions he agreed to follow according to the TOS. He refused to follow the direction. Ban.

People who complain about ANet need to actually read first and know what they’re talking about.

A GM asked the player in question to stop, moved him to another instance where he could keep killing ambients—exactly what he was doing before—but he instead gets back into the previous instance to kill ambiants of the other players. He completely deserved to be suspended.

You guys keep forgetting that this is ANet’s game. When we made out accounts, we agreed to their ToA. They reserve all rights to make the rules and decisions. If you decide to intentionally break their rules on their game, consequences happen. Its as simple as that.

Anet seems to be wildly inconsistent with their stance on farmers.

Griefers who try to stop people from farming events are ok and just playing the game…

Griefers who kill open world mobs are evil and need to be banned?

I wish Anet would pick a stance and stick with it. Why weren’t people who “just want to complete the event” moved to separate overflows and asked not to come back to the farming instances? Why were those farms nerfed but this one told to be legitimate?

OP: Where is your source telling you this was the reason for this ban?

I highly doubt this was the reason. The person who got banned may have been banned for something else they did days ago, and it only kicked in whilst they were doing their farm.

I’ve gotten weapon mastery there on quite a few weapons, though I still need to finish off a few.

Gedekran.1487:

I’ve gotten weapon mastery there on quite a few weapons, though I still need to finish off a few.

…and of course, again, you will only need them whenever you see people farming there. sigh I hope you won’t get far with it.

Hey there Nia, nice to see you again. How’s it been? Hope to see you there helping me get my weapon mastery soon.