Guild Wars 2

There’s a TL;DR at the bottom of this thread.

Guild Wars 2 is a pretty lovely game. It’s without a doubt a very pleasant game, and it improves on quite a few different areas in the sort of stereotypical mmo fashion. Which is definitely nice. Like with how crafting and gathering work, it’s absolutely amazing (BTW Omnomberry Bars, whoever came up with that.. Seriously.. I <3 you).

But once you hit 80, and once you’re done with your story (If you even do it lol).. What is there to do? Well, lets make a quick list.

You’ve got:

Dungeons
Legendaries
SPvP/WvW
World bosses
Achievements
Map Completion….?
Auction House Flipping…?
Crafting…?
…… Alts?

The problem is, the vast majority of GW2’s end game is for Transmutation (I’ll just be referring it transmog the rest of the time). Dungeons, Legendaries, PvP, those are the sort of big end game things that GW2 has to offer. But they’re all (For the most part) for transmog.

Lets talk about Dungeons first, while fundamentally they’re good. I feel that they’re lacking in the ways of rewards.

I like the fact that you can do a dungeon in story mode, and do it again in Exp with different paths. But there’s no incentive to keep doing them unless you want the transmog the Dungeon has to offer. Or if you need Tears for Twilight/Sunrise for making a legendary for instance. The loot they drop is just not worth it. The time invested vs the amount of gold you’ll make just isn’t there. It’s a terrible way to make gold, and it’s not a good source of loot. If the loot drops were better, then maybe they would be worth spending 30minutes to an hour+ to do. But at the moment… Not really. Even in a complete MF set, the drops just aren’t there. I’m WELL over 110% MF without buffs or stacks from luck and I still get terrible loot.

With so much of the end game surrounding transmog… I have to ask, what if you don’t care about it? What if you do not care about how your character looks like?

Wooden Potatoes did a pretty good job explaining what I’m talking about here. Albeit, not exactly the same. But that end game in GW2 is pretty much just transmog. Good video, worth watching.

What To Do At Endgame

It might sound like a silly thing to ask, but really think about it. If you do not care for transmog, if you don’t care about how your toon looks like… What’s left for you in GW2? But well get to that later.

Legendaries:

Ok let me ask this, why in the world do Legendaries have the exact same damage as equivalent exotics but (For the most part) with worse stats? With the amount of effort, time and gold involved in getting one, can anyone really give a reasonable explanation for this?

995 – 1,100 (Except for 1h’s, the shield, etc.)
Power
Toughness
Vitality

Why would I want P/T/V on my Ranger, or Mesmer? Sure they’d be fine on my Guardian, slightly less on my Warrior. But there’s also plenty of issues with transmuting Legendaries as well, like losing the Purple (Unless that’s changed recently?).

With how much it takes to get one. Why is it ONLY transmog? Why are there no beneficial stats over having an exotic? You might say well that’s the point, they’re just for looks. But once again, what if you don’t care about that? Ok so that’s a huge portion of end game that you just do not care about. If you don’t care about transmog there’s obviously no reason you’ll put in that much time or effort to get one. Which hey, might be fine. That just might not be your thing!

SPvP/WvW:

Granted WvW is pretty decent. The fact that realms switch and go up and down teirs is pretty nifty! I really do like it. But there isn’t a whole lot of incentive to do WvW. Unless you’re in a guild thats actively involved in it… After a while, it just kind of falls flat.

There’s no real rewards, the WvW gear you can buy with tokens isn’t all that great. It’s not that much better than some exotics you can buy on the AH (TP if you’re picky).

At least for the cost, I mean the relatively minor gain in P/T/V for the rather large amount of tokens… At least for me, it doesn’t seem worth it.

PvP is fun, but same thing… The rewards are pretty much just for transmog.

PvP in of itself isn’t bad. But there’s just nothing really special about it either (No offense, honest). There’s no real competition. What do I mean by that? Sure you can rank up in PvP, but there’s no real “rating”. And sure, this might be because GW2 is a more casual game. But competition drives SO much gameplay in MMO’s, it’s one of the biggest factors in them by far. Having competition, in pve as well as pvp, offers so much on so many different levels. You just don’t have that in GW2.

You can say “Oh I’m rank 80” but… No one really cares. It doesn’t really mean anything, except that you’ve probably only been doing PvP from the very start haha!

And once again, if you don’t care for transmog… PvP has basically no rewards for you.

World Bosses/Dragons:

Oh dear, World Bosses imo NEED a lot of work. Lets take the dragons, Tequatil and the Shatterer for example. They are the two that need the most work imo.

With Tequatil, you just stand there and shoot at him the entire time till he’s dead. That’s basically it, you run back towards him when he fears and you just avoid the nasty AOE he can drop. But basically, there’s no mechanics to the fight. It’s extremely easy thus making it very, very boring. Usually I just alt tab and watch videos and just run back to dps when he fears me. Not exactly an exciting encounter.

The Shatterer is pretty much the same. Everyone just stands off to the side dps’ing him. Just roll when he’s about to do the crystals (Just watch his right hand, it goes up. When it does, just roll and roll.), then go back and dps. That’s it… Besides rolling from crystals, you have nothing else to do for the rest of the fight. I actually killed the Shatterer with one other person there the entire time (It was like 4 in the morning… Slow night maybe? lol). Although I didn’t need him. It took a while, but needless to say. You can solo this dragon easily. Just avoid his crystals. Do I need to say anything else?

Jormag is the only dragon I like in this game so far. He actually has some different phases and mechanics. The ice wall, the adds. Him transitioning and going into phase 2 with the spikes, some more adds and all that. It’s a decent fight, it could be a lot better. But by far, it’s the best fight the dragons have. I don’t expect it to be like Heroic Ragnaros. I don’t expect 4 ridiculous phases that requires everyone to know what they’re doing, or something like Heroic Spine. Sure, fights like that would be amazing. But, it doesn’t fit with GW2. GW2 is a more casual game, so actual challenging content like that.. I’m sure will never be in the game.

BUT most of the bosses have a lot they need to bring to the table. They need to not be such a snoozefest where you can practically AFK through the fight. Only having to dodge one or two things. There needs to be SOME mechanics that effects everyone in the area. Sure the Shatterer does his front cone AOE. But it doesn’t matter, everyone’s always off to his side… With literally NOTHING to worry about except the crystals. The adds are a joke in Tequatil, the only thing you have to watch out for is the AOE. Avoid it, and just run back when he fears.

The point is, not only is it very boring to just sit there and dps a giant dragon. But it REALLY takes away from the game.

Achievements:

I’m not sure where to start with this one. Achievements aren’t very well tracked, achievements aren’t dated. You can’t link achievements, even though granted… There’s nothing in the game that’s really “link worthy” so to speak.

Granted, I’m sure GW2 will never have the sort of content where you would want to link, for example, like a Heroic kill, or a Realm 1st achievement. And sure, that might be to bring people’s EGO’s and what not down a notch. But at the same time, things like that are what make achievements worth while.

For instance, when I had downed Heroic Rhyolith (After about 70 – 80 wipes) before he was nerfed. I really enjoyed having that achievement. It felt really good! It was a relatively tough fight at the time, with the gear we had. Getting it down, after about 2 weeks of attempts felt amazing. Not only was having the achievement a very fun thing to get. But having it is also a reminder. It reminds me of the people I raided with, how much fun we had. I can look back at that achievement and it has a lot of sentimental value.

A lot of achievements in GW2, well honestly… They just don’t matter. They’re nothing to actually work for. I never even pay attention to any of the achieves I get because they don’t mean anything to me. It’s just some numbers I don’t care about. Which is sad

Map Completion:

Well, what can I say. You do it once and then that’s it. I mean… Well, that’s not much for end game is it? Sure you can do it on other toons, but um.. You’ll eventually run out of toons to do it on. Why do people count Map Completion as end game? It’s easy.. lol

Nuff’ said.

Auction House Flipping:

Wait, do people count this as end game? Sure I make 10 – 30g a day… But… Really? End game? lol.. If I wanted to have an auction house as end game. I’d go back to Eve Online. (JK, I <3 Eve Online and still play, it’s market and economy is ridiculous. In a good way; of course).

Crafting:

Crafting, for the most part, has a lot that needs to be fixed. For the most part, crafting is kind of worthless in the big scheme of things. Crafting fundamentally is amazing. How it’s set up, how you level it, all that.. It’s great. But there’s no point in really crafting many things. Unless you’re crafting rares to DE and get globs from, or craft exotics to forge to try to get lucky…. Most of the crafting in the game has a lot to be desired.

Except for cooking, it’s amazing. Omnomberries are seriously the best things to ever be in a game, ever. Seriously. <3 whoever made those.

Alts:

Alts as end game? Come on. I know a lot of GW2’s game is focused around the story, but honestly… I don’t know a SINGLE person that paid attention to their whole story. Even people that were ALL about their characters stories.. After a while they just wound up losing interest. (No offense, honestly). Half way through my story I just started skipping scenes and just getting the quests done. It’s not that they were bad, I just didn’t have any interest in what was going on anymore and I just wanted to get them done. Personally, I LOVE lore. I love wow lore, I love the guild wars lore as well! But the stories, for me at least, felt somewhat padded. I got pretty bored after a while and it didn’t really become something I really wanted to do. I know most people who have multiple 80’s that haven’t finished a single one of their stories. Only because they just didn’t care about them anymore. That might sound harsh, I don’t intend it to be and granted, I don’t expect the stories or anything else to change but … There’s not much there really either unless you’re REALLY into your toons story and follow through.

Well I’m sure almost no one actually went through and read all of this. To the 0.01% of people that may have read through this whole giant wall of text… I appreciate your time (Honest! <3).

… What about my sweet sweet loot?

Also another little thing.

Tiers.
Does anyone care about their tier pieces? No. They’re just over priced transmog. I’m sure when gold gets more inflated, it’ll be easier to buy. But they’re pointless. The stats are terrible.

Maybe make Tier pieces have set bonuses on the armor (Not a Rune), that are actually good for the classes. So having Tier pieces revolving more around skills, since most runes cover stats.

For example.

Tier 4 Ranger

Set bonus 2: Sharpening Stone’s damage is increased by 223 but increases cooldown by 12s
Set bonus 4: Bleeds from the side or behind apply 2 stacks, instead of 1
Set bonus 6: Quickening Zephyr lasts an additional 4 seconds

Of course this is just an example. And granted it might be harder for some classes, like with Guardians for instance. So for something like that, it’d have to be more general to cover more bases. If you were to make tanking bonuses, me playing my healing guardian… Well that’s useless. But just playing to the classes strengths is what’s important there. But for just dps specific classes, like rangers.. You can be more specific on bonuses.

TL;DR:

The vast majority of the end game revolves around Transmog.
I don’t care about transmog or how my character looks. What kind of end game is there?

There’s definitely a lacking reward system for a lot of things, especially for the amount of time you put into things, the loot you get just isn’t worth it. Even with a full MF set.

Dragons need mechanics so you don’t /afk through the whole fight.

Achievements don’t mean anything.

Tier pieces are terrible and definitely need work. Could possibly use class specific set bonuses. Not related to runes.

The end.

cilayin.4632:

The vast majority of the end game revolves around Transmog.
I don’t care about transmog or how my character looks. What kind of end game is there?

ANet made a game that revolved around the looks. Not the stats. They have let go of this idea a bit (masterwork → rare → exotics → ascended), but the end goal is getting skins. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don’t care about skins, well, there’s not a lot you will like. Dungeons: tokens for unique looks, Legendary: unique looks, Cultural armours: unique looks…

I read the whole “wall of text” it has some valid points and I agree on all of them.
Let’s hope the future has some updates to look forward to !

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

cilayin.4632:

The vast majority of the end game revolves around Transmog.
I don’t care about transmog or how my character looks. What kind of end game is there?

ANet made a game that revolved around the looks. Not the stats. They have let go of this idea a bit (masterwork -> rare -> exotics -> ascended), but the end goal is getting skins. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don’t care about skins, well, there’s not a lot you will like. Dungeons: tokens for unique looks, Legendary: unique looks, Cultural armours: unique looks…

Ya, I know. But also think of it this way. Once you get the transmog you like… Then what do you do?

If there’s only 1 or 2 sets in the game (Very likely) that you like… Once you have that.. Then what? Just sit around and wait for new content?

Being skins-only comes from GW1 (though half-butchered due to having a bunch of tiers involved), where the entire idea was that there shouldn’t be situations where you win because of gear, instead of player skill and the skills you bring.
Max level was easily reached fairly quickly, gear had maximum values that could be bought at a reasonable price if you just needed the stats, not the looks.
Gear “progression” was simply skins. And yet that proved to be very successful, because many people have a problem with someone being superior simply because they played longer. They may be more skilled or more knowledgeable BECAUSE of playing longer, but they don’t get any better stats beyond an easily reachable level simply by putting more time in.
There is certainly no way that they’ll ever make Legendary have higher stats than whatever the BiS is.

I don’t know- I really have not gotten bored of skins yet- all my characters are unique and I enjoy creating their looks immensely.
As Lady Rhonwyn says it is how the game was made.
There will always be more skins, I am pretty sure of that.
Meanwhile I’m doing exactly what I’ve been doing from the betas, which is playing the game- I create my own goals and I really like that I have the freedom to do that.

“Achievements don’t mean anything.”

That’s like saying “winning don’t mean anything”

Achievements show you made progress in a certain area. Just cause there are no rewards for that achievement, it doesn’t mean anything?

Vol.5241:

“Achievements don’t mean anything.”

That’s like saying “winning don’t mean anything”

Achievements show you made progress in a certain area. Just cause there are no rewards for that achievement, it doesn’t mean anything?

Achievements really don’t mean anything though. You can completely PAD your achievements. You can have 10,000 achievements in a week if you spend the gold. No one see’s what achievements you had, and the achievements themselves aren’t anything challenging. You know?

Like… Killing 1000 mobs, ok.. Well, that’s cool. But not really something I care about. If maybe there was an achievement for not taking damage during a certain boss fight and getting a title, maybe you were doing some hard escort mission the person you were escort didn’t get downed, or maybe doing a jumping puzzle in under a certain time. Just SOMETHING more than just “Oh you explored this area” “Oh you killed x amount of creeps”.

But it doesn’t matter, even if you get it.. You cant show anyone. Sure you can see the overall numbers but, those don’t mean anything. I can have 10,000 achievements points but it’s ALL from salvaging things. So… What’s it matter?

If you’re looking for a game with constant grind and the philosophy of making even more grind to keep you playing longer, this is not the game for you.

This is no different than being in a raiding guild in World of Warcraft and finishing all of the heroic content.

Vol.5241:

Vol.5241:

“Achievements don’t mean anything.”

That’s like saying “winning don’t mean anything”

Achievements show you made progress in a certain area. Just cause there are no rewards for that achievement, it doesn’t mean anything?

Achievements really don’t mean anything though. You can completely PAD your achievements. You can have 10,000 achievements in a week if you spend the gold. No one see’s what achievements you had, and the achievements themselves aren’t anything challenging. You know?

Like… Killing 1000 mobs, ok.. Well, that’s cool. But not really something I care about. If maybe there was an achievement for not taking damage during a certain boss fight and getting a title, maybe you were doing some hard escort mission the person you were escort didn’t get downed, or maybe doing a jumping puzzle in under a certain time. Just SOMETHING more than just “Oh you explored this area” “Oh you killed x amount of creeps”.

But it doesn’t matter, even if you get it.. You cant show anyone. Sure you can see the overall numbers but, those don’t mean anything. I can have 10,000 achievements points but it’s ALL from salvaging things. So… What’s it matter?

Perhaps you should check the upcoming features, they plan on making achievements a possibility in getting ascended quality gear and more.

cilayin.4632:

Ya, I know. But also think of it this way. Once you get the transmog you like… Then what do you do?

If there’s only 1 or 2 sets in the game (Very likely) that you like… Once you have that.. Then what? Just sit around and wait for new content?

Roleplaying …

Laugh about it all you want. Roleplaying is the only viable end game (in every MMO), because you’re permanently creating new content alongside others. You don’t like roleplaying? No problem, but then you will encounter the same problems again and again.

Unless you like to grind the kitten out of everything, MMOs never make any sense at “the end” – and you only wait for the next expansion, that propably will disappoint you anyway, because of whatever reason there is for you.

cilayin.4632:

Vol.5241:

“Achievements don’t mean anything.”

That’s like saying “winning don’t mean anything”

Achievements show you made progress in a certain area. Just cause there are no rewards for that achievement, it doesn’t mean anything?

Achievements really don’t mean anything though. You can completely PAD your achievements. You can have 10,000 achievements in a week if you spend the gold. No one see’s what achievements you had, and the achievements themselves aren’t anything challenging. You know?

Like… Killing 1000 mobs, ok.. Well, that’s cool. But not really something I care about. If maybe there was an achievement for not taking damage during a certain boss fight and getting a title, or maybe doing a jumping puzzle in under a certain time. Just SOMETHING.

But it doesn’t matter, even if you get it.. You cant show anyone. Sure you can see the numbers but, those don’t mean anything. I can have 10,000 achievements points but it’s ALL from salvaging things. So… What’s it matter?

Actually I do use achievements when judging players.

If I see you have less than 1500, you’re still new to the game.

If I see you above 2K, I expect you know how to play most of the game. If you’re above 3K well you’re pretty seasoned and I can depend on you.

I don’t think you realize just how expensive it would be to farm achievement points. That guy who had 18k spent at least 1000g using the cheapest salvagable material.

There are achievements out there that are just novelty while there are others that show your accomplishments and give you titles (like WvW Ultimate’s)

It seems you love this game a lot and the things you want will probably never be provided. Maybe you should find a new game?

But uhh, I agree, the titles and achievements should definitely be more skill based methinks. Like not taking damage in a boss fight, how quick you did something, how LONG it took you to do something etc. Say you put in about 400 hours into a legendary, you would get a title saying hard worker or something because you spent 400 hours getting one thing, hard worker could apply to a set of armour from a dungeon or stuff like that. A title like that would show everyone you’re dependable and not just a casual gamer and would make things more competitive.

cilayin.4632:

If there’s only 1 or 2 sets in the game (Very likely) that you like… Once you have that.. Then what? Just sit around and wait for new content?

Exactly… This sucks.

I really love Gw2. But lately I’ve been playing Rift and in opposite to this game I feel rewarded for anything I do! And it feels great.

In Gw2 rewords look more like this: choose one particular thing to do and do it AGAIN AND AGAIN! And after hundreds of similar runs you will get your reward. And this sucks.

HiddenNick.7206:

cilayin.4632:

If there’s only 1 or 2 sets in the game (Very likely) that you like… Once you have that.. Then what? Just sit around and wait for new content?

Exactly… This sucks.

I really love Gw2. But lately I’ve been playing Rift and in opposite to this game I feel reworded for anything I do! And it feels great.

In Gw2 rewords look more like this: choose one particular thing to do and do it AGAIN AND AGAIN! And after hundreds of similar runs you will get your reword. And this sucks.

Reward*

Natsu.2589:

Roleplaying …

We are talking about loot here… So it’s off topic.

HiddenNick.7206:

Natsu.2589:

Roleplaying …

We are talking about loot here… So it’s off topic.

The question was:

I don’t care about transmog or how my character looks. What kind of end game is there?

So, it’s not off topic. Loot is one way to make end game, roleplaying is another.

Everything in the post, and I mean everything has either been discussed at length before, is being changed in future patches or is about the fact you dont personally like the endgame which IS all about looks.