The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing – Edmund Burke
TP limit bids to 5,000
They do have an economist and he says there’s no issue. You may want to take another look into why the systems are in place as they are right now.
How do you know it’s one person with several hundred orders? And not several people who placed an order for the same price?
Did you know that I need 750 Seasoned Wood Logs just to make Storm Experiment. The first tier of the precursor collection for the precursor for Meteorlogicus.
I also need 1000 Soft Wood Logs.
So I can see how someone could have 500+ on the TP and not be someone looking to try to control the market. They could be looking to make a precursor through the collection and not spend as much time or money on it.
And if you think the prices are high with the 15% tax, imagine what they would be without it. The inflation rate would be a lot higher. The 15% tax is a gold sink. A necessary gold sink.
Seera, Let me apologize for not making it clear, what I intended to refer to was someone putting up five hundred bids for level 30 level leather pants (or things like low level weapons and equipment, not materials…). check the TP and see the low level items- put a bid of one up and within minutes you will most likely be over bid by one copper with someone asking for hundreds of that item… (if you’re familiar with the Turing test, here is a great opportunity to spot algorithms at work and see if it is human or bot- play around for one week and you will see…)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_trading
The TP without the 15% tax being necessary or preventing inflation is speculation on your part…the 15% tax is there to increase credit card purchases to the cash shop. (which I did not say is a bad thing~ the middleman gouging by players to the extant it has bcome…not condemning the player’s self interest, there’s just an easy fix).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing – Edmund Burke
Certain things there are reasons for people to do that. Sure I’m not denying there are TP bots that take advantage of legitimate player activities to automate the process. But then there has to be ways for them to be able to block the bots but allow the legitimate player actions. I have in the past seen a demand for a low level item but buy offers are low compared to what they are selling for. In a case like that one could buy 100s of them and flip them back into the market with sell offers and make a profit. Sometimes that is quite risky and you end up losing you coin spent, maybe salvage and sell the mats ends up recovering some of that. But if they don’t have a way to block the bot and let the players legitimately do the same activity then I’m not sure there is a solution that doesn’t also hurt the legitimate player. We already have to face the spam hammer when we want to sell multiple items/stacks. I can’t even get through my inventory of loot i won’t use or salvage without hitting that. And then having to tell everyone hold on for 5 minutes while i wait for the game to allow me to sell the rest of my stuff.
Many people do it just to level their magic find.
Some bid on item to salvage for profit.
They do have an economist and he says there’s no issue. You may want to take another look into why the systems are in place as they are right now.
The same economist thinks theres no issue with the fact theres several hundred gold price difference between Heavy, Medium and Light Ascended sets, despite the fact they’re the same thing mechanically.
My favorite was the 60,000+ bids on silver ore, that one perplexes me.. unless I’m missing something here. Buying for 15 copper and selling for 21??
The easiest way to solve this is just whatever you buy off the TP make it account bound,
Done, no more exploiting or playing the TP to drive up prices. For those who want to buy stuff to salvage for MF, this should work out for you, it keeps the prices down. As for the TP flippers, too bad so sad.
My favorite was the 60,000+ bids on silver ore, that one perplexes me.. unless I’m missing something here. Buying for 15 copper and selling for 21??
The easiest way to solve this is just whatever you buy off the TP make it account bound,
Done, no more exploiting or playing the TP to drive up prices. For those who want to buy stuff to salvage for MF, this should work out for you, it keeps the prices down. As for the TP flippers, too bad so sad.
Since we have no trading system, the only reason people should be buying things from the TP is for personal use or to send to friends as birthday gifts or things like Secret Toymaker at Christmas.
It might be better if items bought from the TP gain a unique effect that means they can be sent to other players via mail system for such events, but not put back into the TP.
Or, here’s an idea:
Let people play the market, because they find it fun, and they aren’t actually breaking the market for anyone.
Market speculators don’t control prices in GW2, and they never have. There is no market cartel making your ingame life difficult. Those TP fees exist specifically because they are one of four gold sinks in the entire game, the other three being waypoints, salvage kits, and harvesting tools. Two of those four being completely avoidable with a gem store purchase. The cost of waypointing is purposely a near zero sum, and is not a meaningful sink. Most sinks in terms of ingame items acquired with raw currency are extremely cheap one time purchases. That leaves TP fees, a basic income tax that is the only reliable way for currency to leave the economy in perpetuity.
Without the TP fees, inflation would run stupidly rampant. I don’t think I need to explain to you why that’s bad.
John Smith and Anet control prices. Soft wood wasn’t up to ridiculous prices because of market speculators. It was up there because there was a sudden massive surge in demand without any corresponding surge in supply. The entire guild hall upgrade system, scribing, the wintersday karma bags, everything is built around a strictly managed system of supply and demand. People playing that market are working within that system, and with the region-wide trading post it’s virtually impossible to completely monopolize a given item market for any length of time. I can’t understand what your problem is, other than that you are trying to sell competitively in a competitive system, but you don’t seem willing to invest time and effort in to competing.
Furthermore, Anet has repeatedly gone out of its way to place many modes of acquisition and advancement outside of the market entirely through account and soulbound items. This is a tightly managed market specifically to stop market flippers from disrupting it too heavily. As a result, they don’t disrupt it too heavily.
I can’t think of any reason to disallow a form of play that many people find fun. Many many players play MMOs specifically to play the markets. That only becomes a problem when those players are permitted to monopolize item markets and jack up prices unreasonably. That just doesn’t seem to be a problem in GW2.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
(edited by PopeUrban.2578)
They do have an economist and he says there’s no issue. You may want to take another look into why the systems are in place as they are right now.
The same economist thinks theres no issue with the fact theres several hundred gold price difference between Heavy, Medium and Light Ascended sets, despite the fact they’re the same thing mechanically.
It’s less than a hundred gold difference.
God, I love these hobby economist threads.
Best part, new people come with the same stupid ideas over and over again.
We really need back the Trading Post forums just to be able to link to old disscussions where exactly stuff like this gets disproven and or discussed.
My favorite one so far in this thread:
- making traded items from the TP account bound
I also love how people love bashing John Smith while GW2 has one of the most stable MMO economies on the gaming market.
Seera, Let me apologize for not making it clear, what I intended to refer to was someone putting up five hundred bids for level 30 level leather pants (or things like low level weapons and equipment, not materials…). check the TP and see the low level items- put a bid of one up and within minutes you will most likely be over bid by one copper with someone asking for hundreds of that item… (if you’re familiar with the Turing test, here is a great opportunity to spot algorithms at work and see if it is human or bot- play around for one week and you will see…)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_trading
The TP without the 15% tax being necessary or preventing inflation is speculation on your part…the 15% tax is there to increase credit card purchases to the cash shop. (which I did not say is a bad thing~ the middleman gouging by players to the extant it has bcome…not condemning the player’s self interest, there’s just an easy fix).
So what you are telling me, someone who sees that an item on the trading post which is undervalued, then puts up a bid to salvage the item and reintroduce the ressources into the market (thus increasing the supply). Oh dear god no, blasphemy.
If someone overbids you by 1 copper he will do so until the item is not worth salvaging any more. People buying and salvaging items is a GOOD thing. It keeps material prices in check while it does not let prices drift appart between ressources and items.
The only argument which can be made here is boting, and even this brings market prices closer to equalibrium. Not all ends justify all means.
God, I love these hobby economist threads.
Best part, new people come with the same stupid ideas over and over again.
We really need back the Trading Post forums just to be able to link to old disscussions where exactly stuff like this gets disproven and or discussed.
My favorite one so far in this thread:
- making traded items from the TP account bound
I also love how people love bashing John Smith while GW2 has one of the most stable MMO economies on the gaming market.
Should help.
I don’t see this so called barrier to new players. You really only need to tp gear if you want to level faster, and I still see plenty of 35-45 blue armor selling for 3-4 silver…. which is what it’s been for the longest time. Someone low level can just salvage whatever they find and sell the mats, and still have lots of gold and/or mats just by playing the game.
That is, if they haven’t found anything in the last 30 minutes that hasn’t obsoleted whatever they bought on the tp anyways. Or from level up chests. Ever since the NPE there’s generally little excuse to be undergeared, honestly, with the game giving you free gear and daily rewards give you level up tomes. Being below level 80, is basically irrelevant, and I would never even tell people to get the tome choice from a chest of loyalty— there’s no point to rush it. Instead, gathering up a lot of t2-t4 mats while leveling will make for some fine bank once one reaches 80. Although level ~70-79 I would try to skip if possible, since t5’s are in a bad place.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
So you don’t think people should be able to bulk purchase commodities? I’ve put in buy orders for thousands of materials before for crafting purposes.
Also, there’s no real good argument against someone doing a bulk Buy Order so they can sell them at bulk later for a modest profit.
Flippers want to buy low and sell high. New players can sell at the higher prices, or put in buy orders at a lower price, just like flippers.
I guess I just don’t see how large buy orders affect new players.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
My favorite was the 60,000+ bids on silver ore, that one perplexes me.. unless I’m missing something here. Buying for 15 copper and selling for 21??
The easiest way to solve this is just whatever you buy off the TP make it account bound,
Done, no more exploiting or playing the TP to drive up prices. For those who want to buy stuff to salvage for MF, this should work out for you, it keeps the prices down. As for the TP flippers, too bad so sad.
Flipping is neither exploiting or a method to drive up prices. No one person has that capacity. Trust me I have tried and the result was I only hurt myself in the form of lost gold. I bought 10s of thousands of a low value item in hopes of selling it for a much higher value. Only to have within minutes as many items as I just bought enter the market again driving the price right back down to the chunk of stuff I just bought.
On the other hand items that clearly have a buy bid that is way too low. This is concluded by monitoring what people are paying for the stuff in the sell listings. You can put in buy bids at those low prices for people who don’t care to look and see that they could get more just as fast and sell to the highest buy bid. And then turn around and make a profit. This happens in the real world economy too. I’m a store I see an opportunity to buy some item from someone else at a low price. I take that opportunity and do so and turn around and sell the item for a profit to those who pay more for the item. But at the same time there are people who want the item for less. We can see that and sell the item for less to make that person happy. In the end everyone wins because the economy benefits and everyone got what they wanted one way or the other.
Was the person(s) who sold those 60,000 ore to the highest bid forced to do so… No. They could have listed them for higher and waited a very brief time to get more but they decided they wanted the money instantly vs near instantly. The person willingly paying more to buy something instantly isn’t being forced to either. They have the option to put in a buy offer and wait a brief time to get vs instantly. People even have the option to not use the TP at all.
Turing test… Seriously?
Lets get one thing clear, even before mega server, BLTC was a server wide system, not only that, it was shared with US and EU, not sure about China, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was also all connected as one.
So you have millions of people trying to buy and sell stuff every second, you think you can control anything even with automated programs, if there’s even such a thing? Specially with a 250 limit on buy and sell orders per click? And not only that, if you try to list too many items, you get a error message and you have to wait a few minutes.
The fact that low level items are desirable is because of the materials and the luck you get out of them, before luck was introduced you had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of listings at +1 copper from the NPC sell price, that was the lowest you could sell them for, and the materials you got out of them for salvage were also pretty useless back then.
The changes Anet made to make these desirable were a good thing, like it was mentioned before, GW2 has some of the best economy you’ll find in an MMO.
As for the new players concern…
In GW2 you’ll HARDLY ever loot a piece of gear you actually want to use, that means you’ll have to buy it but it also means you can sell what you don’t want.
As I said earlier, before luck all these green or lower items were absolutely useless, you’d lose money trying to sell them on the MP because you could only list as +1 copper but you’d pay the listing fee and the tax, so all the loot you got was right to the NPC vendors, I sold gear like this by the truck loads, and stacks of silk scrap, STACKS, right to the NPCs because the market would make me lose money.
So at least now new players can actually make some coin by trading them with other players, whats wrong with that?
Lastly, as someone else already mentioned, there’s nothing wrong with buy low and sell high, when someone wants some money for the item they have, someone will buy it, when someone else wants to buy an item, someone will sell it.
Again, there’s nothing wrong with that.
The problem was before when you had so much dirt cheap stuff, even today you get items that aren’t worth as much as they should, here’s hoping Anet fixes that by limiting the drop rate.
Victoria Cross [VC] – Desolation [EU]