Guild Wars 2

Has this skill come under some scrutiny or something?

I use it in WvW(as many Sylvari do, especially as a Ranger)…not usually PvE…is there some kind of OP or “not intended to work this way” situation? I’ve never felt it gave me any kind of “extra” advantage or anything…but maybe I suck so bad in WvW I don’t notice it.

Just curious since it was mentioned in the AMA for Flashpoint.

Under “Skills & Balance” section:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6904o8/flashpoint_reddit_ama_summary/

Thanks.

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

TexZero.7910:

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Fair enough and makes sense. Reminds me of the beta weekends and the sylvari entangle racial being AoE, which if it stayed like that I would have rolled instantly sylvari.

TexZero.7910:

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Take root isn’t a problem in any mode it’s the god awful class elites. Look at Mesmer we used to spread conditions through glamours but it was removed and now we have no condition based elite and necros with their lich nerfed and the other classes. Mobs need to die quickly and so many of our elites are group based fone tuned for raids in the prelaunch balance patch. When your class elites don’t do anything to speed up your killing people will grab something that will. The topic has been discussed to death and merging take root isn’t going to make people use their class skills again. Same goes for utilities because some classes are taking racial utilities over their class skills too.

Balance in the game needs to be more than merely raid meta there are too many useless and broken skills and skills turned useless through balancing. The reason for the surge of racial skill usage is because racial shave been exempt from class balance over the years. We didn’t have so many people using racial s to this degree in the earlier years . Not in dungeons fractals or WVW heck I used TW to cap camps back then because of the old condi spread when roaming.

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Take root isn’t a problem in any mode it’s the god awful class elites. Look at Mesmer we used to spread conditions through glamours but it was removed and now we have no condition based elite and necros with their lich nerfed and the other classes. Mobs need to die quickly and so many of our elites are group based fone tuned for raids in the prelaunch balance patch. When your class elites don’t do anything to speed up your killing people will grab something that will. The topic has been discussed to death and merging take root isn’t going to make people use their class skills again. Same goes for utilities because some classes are taking racial utilities over their class skills too.

Balance in the game needs to be more than merely raid meta there are too many useless and broken skills and skills turned useless through balancing. The reason for the surge of racial skill usage is because racial shave been exempt from class balance over the years. We didn’t have so many people using racial s to this degree in the earlier years . Not in dungeons fractals or WVW heck I used TW to cap camps back then because of the old condi spread when roaming.

Edgy response my friend.
Counter-point, ever wonder why their were so many sylvari necro’s and thieves in WvW ?

While yes elites across the board are underwhelming, that doesn’t exclude one from being too strong for it to be a racial skill.

I am fine with the nerf to take root but only if they look at class elites to make sure their are viable alternatives. Classes almost always have good options for dps elites when running power, but most classes have terrible elites for condi specs.

At least rangers and necros have condi elites they can use, even if the dps is not great, many classes don’t even have those. Currently playing a sylvari is the only ways to get a dps elite on a condi mesmer for example.

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Take root isn’t a problem in any mode it’s the god awful class elites. Look at Mesmer we used to spread conditions through glamours but it was removed and now we have no condition based elite and necros with their lich nerfed and the other classes. Mobs need to die quickly and so many of our elites are group based fone tuned for raids in the prelaunch balance patch. When your class elites don’t do anything to speed up your killing people will grab something that will. The topic has been discussed to death and merging take root isn’t going to make people use their class skills again. Same goes for utilities because some classes are taking racial utilities over their class skills too.

Balance in the game needs to be more than merely raid meta there are too many useless and broken skills and skills turned useless through balancing. The reason for the surge of racial skill usage is because racial shave been exempt from class balance over the years. We didn’t have so many people using racial s to this degree in the earlier years . Not in dungeons fractals or WVW heck I used TW to cap camps back then because of the old condi spread when roaming.

Edgy response my friend.
Counter-point, ever wonder why their were so many sylvari necro’s and thieves in WvW ?

While yes elites across the board are underwhelming, that doesn’t exclude one from being too strong for it to be a racial skill.

I don’t think its edgy at all in fact during the AMA we had yesterday on Reddit this very topic was brought up with a dev. You can check there because their was a community response and it was overwhelmingly that the main issue is our core class skills being lacking. But to your side the dev did say they’d look at take root but it’s the exact same response they’ve given in the past if I remember correctly.

As for Mes and Necro in WVW I only see people using take root to cap the Mesmer is in abundance due to portal and the necro because epidemic is still viable. There classes that are used in WVW and they only seem like their in abundance because the perma stealth thieves have all but disappeared.

I’m not saying take root doesn’t need to be looked at but rather currently people would just switch to the next best racial elite. Instead of Sylvari necros with take root we may have human necros with hounds of Balthazar or Char with warbiund. I hear asura already use technobabble for break bars but I cant remember which classes had so little CC they choose to use it.

At any rate I typically recommend reading the post content AMA even though some of their responses are the same each time like WVW questions. A person can see the latest thoughts on this topic and get a beat on the pulse of how things are going elsewhere. More importantly the like and dislike feature is actually visible unlike these forums so how the population leans on any topic is visible.

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Take root isn’t a problem in any mode it’s the god awful class elites. Look at Mesmer we used to spread conditions through glamours but it was removed and now we have no condition based elite and necros with their lich nerfed and the other classes. Mobs need to die quickly and so many of our elites are group based fone tuned for raids in the prelaunch balance patch. When your class elites don’t do anything to speed up your killing people will grab something that will. The topic has been discussed to death and merging take root isn’t going to make people use their class skills again. Same goes for utilities because some classes are taking racial utilities over their class skills too.

Balance in the game needs to be more than merely raid meta there are too many useless and broken skills and skills turned useless through balancing. The reason for the surge of racial skill usage is because racial shave been exempt from class balance over the years. We didn’t have so many people using racial s to this degree in the earlier years . Not in dungeons fractals or WVW heck I used TW to cap camps back then because of the old condi spread when roaming.

Edgy response my friend.
Counter-point, ever wonder why their were so many sylvari necro’s and thieves in WvW ?

While yes elites across the board are underwhelming, that doesn’t exclude one from being too strong for it to be a racial skill.

I don’t think its edgy at all in fact during the AMA we had yesterday on Reddit this very topic was brought up with a dev. You can check there because their was a community response and it was overwhelmingly that the main issue is our core class skills being lacking. But to your side the dev did say they’d look at take root but it’s the exact same response they’ve given in the past if I remember correctly.

As for Mes and Necro in WVW I only see people using take root to cap the Mesmer is in abundance due to portal and the necro because epidemic is still viable. There classes that are used in WVW and they only seem like their in abundance because the perma stealth thieves have all but disappeared.

I’m not saying take root doesn’t need to be looked at but rather currently people would just switch to the next best racial elite. Instead of Sylvari necros with take root we may have human necros with hounds of Balthazar or Char with warbiund. I hear asura already use technobabble for break bars but I cant remember which classes had so little CC they choose to use it.

At any rate I typically recommend reading the post content AMA even though some of their responses are the same each time like WVW questions. A person can see the latest thoughts on this topic and get a beat on the pulse of how things are going elsewhere. More importantly the like and dislike feature is actually visible unlike these forums so how the population leans on any topic is visible.

The edgy response came from you blaming raids for the balance concerns. It’s cute, but wrong.

Also, i read the AMA they said they have no plan to disable it from modes. They probably should disable them in any mode not open world. But hey, that would be the smart thing that opens up each gamemodes meta diversity as opposed to restricting it to Sylvari or bust.

take root is op in pve thats about it

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Take root isn’t a problem in any mode it’s the god awful class elites. Look at Mesmer we used to spread conditions through glamours but it was removed and now we have no condition based elite and necros with their lich nerfed and the other classes. Mobs need to die quickly and so many of our elites are group based fone tuned for raids in the prelaunch balance patch. When your class elites don’t do anything to speed up your killing people will grab something that will. The topic has been discussed to death and merging take root isn’t going to make people use their class skills again. Same goes for utilities because some classes are taking racial utilities over their class skills too.

Balance in the game needs to be more than merely raid meta there are too many useless and broken skills and skills turned useless through balancing. The reason for the surge of racial skill usage is because racial shave been exempt from class balance over the years. We didn’t have so many people using racial s to this degree in the earlier years . Not in dungeons fractals or WVW heck I used TW to cap camps back then because of the old condi spread when roaming.

Edgy response my friend.
Counter-point, ever wonder why their were so many sylvari necro’s and thieves in WvW ?

While yes elites across the board are underwhelming, that doesn’t exclude one from being too strong for it to be a racial skill.

I don’t think its edgy at all in fact during the AMA we had yesterday on Reddit this very topic was brought up with a dev. You can check there because their was a community response and it was overwhelmingly that the main issue is our core class skills being lacking. But to your side the dev did say they’d look at take root but it’s the exact same response they’ve given in the past if I remember correctly.

As for Mes and Necro in WVW I only see people using take root to cap the Mesmer is in abundance due to portal and the necro because epidemic is still viable. There classes that are used in WVW and they only seem like their in abundance because the perma stealth thieves have all but disappeared.

I’m not saying take root doesn’t need to be looked at but rather currently people would just switch to the next best racial elite. Instead of Sylvari necros with take root we may have human necros with hounds of Balthazar or Char with warbiund. I hear asura already use technobabble for break bars but I cant remember which classes had so little CC they choose to use it.

At any rate I typically recommend reading the post content AMA even though some of their responses are the same each time like WVW questions. A person can see the latest thoughts on this topic and get a beat on the pulse of how things are going elsewhere. More importantly the like and dislike feature is actually visible unlike these forums so how the population leans on any topic is visible.

The edgy response came from you blaming raids for the balance concerns. It’s cute, but wrong.

Also, i read the AMA they said they have no plan to disable it from modes. They probably should disable them in any mode not open world. But hey, that would be the smart thing that opens up each gamemodes meta diversity as opposed to restricting it to Sylvari or bust.

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s also a WvW problem.

It’s a 3 second invuln with absurdly high damage. No other elite has this kind of overtunned offense and defense in one and is also restricted to race specifics.

Take root isn’t a problem in any mode it’s the god awful class elites. Look at Mesmer we used to spread conditions through glamours but it was removed and now we have no condition based elite and necros with their lich nerfed and the other classes. Mobs need to die quickly and so many of our elites are group based fone tuned for raids in the prelaunch balance patch. When your class elites don’t do anything to speed up your killing people will grab something that will. The topic has been discussed to death and merging take root isn’t going to make people use their class skills again. Same goes for utilities because some classes are taking racial utilities over their class skills too.

Balance in the game needs to be more than merely raid meta there are too many useless and broken skills and skills turned useless through balancing. The reason for the surge of racial skill usage is because racial shave been exempt from class balance over the years. We didn’t have so many people using racial s to this degree in the earlier years . Not in dungeons fractals or WVW heck I used TW to cap camps back then because of the old condi spread when roaming.

^^This. I just wish Anet would change it so the elite slot can be populated with any skill. The only elite that is useful is headbutt for warrior (low cooldown). Others are just too situational with way too long cooldowns.

ANet said in the recent AMA that they were taking a loot at Take Root.

Azoqu.8917:

The problem with Take Root is the fact that it outclasses every single elite for a condi spec when dealing damage. This goes against the fact that race should not matter for game play concerns and I have met people who have rolled new rangers just to have take root for the extra 2k DPS it provides. Now if you’re using it for the invuln part of the skill, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit: It is a raid problem, not a WvW one (though it could be, I don’t really play WvW).

It’s not a raid problem. It’s a balance problem. And not of the skill in question, but of all the other ones.
In short, for condi character practically every elite available is either mostly useless or really weak. That’s true even for those that seemed made specifically for condi characters (Plague form).
This skill is not OP. It stands out simply because it’s the only skill that’s actually useful for condi builds.

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

Yes, because during the same patch they changed how quickness stacked making TW overwrite existing quickness stacks. If that wasn’t bad enough, by reducing the number of possible stacks TW itself became even more garbage as quickness stacked upto 5 times but TW pulsed it 11 times. So you’d guarantee you overwrote everyone’s existing quickness stacks and duration with a smaller value.

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

Yes, because during the same patch they changed how quickness stacked making TW overwrite existing quickness stacks. If that wasn’t bad enough, by reducing the number of possible stacks TW itself became even more garbage as quickness stacked upto 5 times but TW pulsed it 11 times. So you’d guarantee you overwrote everyone’s existing quickness stacks and duration with a smaller value.

From what i recal back when they nerfed soi they also changed how quickness stacked prioritising tstackes with bigger durr over smaller ones. If that had changed with this patch then why so many ppl now run time warp? iv seen it from qt to other ppl in fractals and raids. Also could you link me the patch notes i want to take a look at it myself.

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

Yes, because during the same patch they changed how quickness stacked making TW overwrite existing quickness stacks. If that wasn’t bad enough, by reducing the number of possible stacks TW itself became even more garbage as quickness stacked upto 5 times but TW pulsed it 11 times. So you’d guarantee you overwrote everyone’s existing quickness stacks and duration with a smaller value.

From what i recal back when they nerfed soi they also changed how quickness stacked prioritising tstackes with bigger durr over smaller ones. If that had changed with this patch then why so many ppl now run time warp? iv seen it from qt to other ppl in fractals and raids. Also could you link me the patch notes i want to take a look at it myself.

Original change to boon stacking mechanics – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-October-18-2016/first#post6367434

Update to Timewarp months later – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6504219

They may have fixed the timewarp issue (i haven’t personally tested it as i don’t tank)

I couldnt find anywhere in the tw patch the quickness change so idk were you got that info. But the patch which lowered the max stats on quickness also made it so that stacks with bigger durr get prioritised over stacks with smaller durr. Why do you think there a minstrel druid build out there? So that means tw will never replace bigger stacks only smaller which is a good thing.

Thanks everyone. I have a better understanding of the issue with Take Root now.

Personally, I don’t use it for condi, I use it for the invulnerability if I am about to die, or if the group I am in is about to ambush another group in WvW. (Or for a Turret, Traps, and Drones Theme Night in WvW…lol )

But I can see the issue…so thanks again…keep it civil, its a good discussion with good points and counter points.

Again, thanks for clarifying for a player that was unfamiliar with the issue.

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

Yes, because during the same patch they changed how quickness stacked making TW overwrite existing quickness stacks. If that wasn’t bad enough, by reducing the number of possible stacks TW itself became even more garbage as quickness stacked upto 5 times but TW pulsed it 11 times. So you’d guarantee you overwrote everyone’s existing quickness stacks and duration with a smaller value.

That’s a separate change/ TW affecting 10 people now is a good change to the skill. The way quickness stacking works was a separate issue and had little to do with this.

My view on it or what rumor has it that Take Root in a WvW setting is quite OP for a racial elite in terms of the invulnerability it provided but also the damaging factor.

It’s literally an “oh crap” button if things go south, especially on cheese condi specs that are/were already considered annoying enough.

I mean yes its a bit overtuned imo, but I hope Anet look at why people take it so kitten often. Its because their alternatives aren’t even worth considering. So just nerfing take root won’t do anything but make the base problem worse.

OriOri.8724:

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

Yes, because during the same patch they changed how quickness stacked making TW overwrite existing quickness stacks. If that wasn’t bad enough, by reducing the number of possible stacks TW itself became even more garbage as quickness stacked upto 5 times but TW pulsed it 11 times. So you’d guarantee you overwrote everyone’s existing quickness stacks and duration with a smaller value.

That’s a separate change/ TW affecting 10 people now is a good change to the skill. The way quickness stacking works was a separate issue and had little to do with this.

The two issues were separate i’ll grant you that. TW on 10 is good, but TW as it existed prior to that patch was bad. Like you may as well use any other elite due to the boon change.

TW is still useful for covering gaps in quickness rotation, but it would be better if it pulsed every 2 seconds and pulsed 2 sec of quickness at a time.

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

Cherry picking?
If a single instance counters a claim the the claim is countered

Furthermore no one even makes the argument your providing now because in the time between S2 and HoT everyone knows those are pre event patchs. Those class changes happened the summer before the fall which HoT released. The balancing to all classes were made for the introduction of elites specs hence the pruning. This fall we have another expansion and there will no doubt be a balance patch that effects core and elite specs making room for the next set of elite specializations in that patch too will be considered part of the changes regarding the expac.

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

I’ll admit I ignored this at first because its a raider response and you ignored the rest of the TW changes but by no means did I expect that comment to derail this entire thread.

Perspective for 5 man content it makes no changes in fractals, dungeons, and pvp. In WvW and PVE your also getting people into your etheral field which is a bad thing when you consider the demand for fire fields and that reapers or overly dependant on their own fields. In raids they see it as a good thing not for the mesmer at all but it was done to free up a raid slot to kill the 2x raid chrono set up that was going on.

The 10person change is a change that was made for the sole purpose of raids and a poster child for Anet making blanket balance changes across the entire game based on raids. The very nature of warrior was drastically changed in WvW all because of raid balance. The raid balance for TW is good and the skill itself is obviously tailored for raids but that doesn’t fair well for solo play at all.

What class has a harder time in solo play than a pure Mesmers!? Be it solo wvw or in pve? A person may respond they don’t matter but the people that do care find themselves with less than viable skills at their disposal and thus they have to rely on racial skills like Take Root. That’s why Take Root and other racial skills have been such a major topic lately they really came to prominence during the balance patch prepping us for the upcoming raids in HoT. But even with that Mesmers in raids and necro/rangers are using Take Root for certain fights over their pure class biased elites because a basic direct DPS elite simply work out better.

Doam.8305:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

I’ll admit I ignored this at first because its a raider response and you ignored the rest of the TW changes but by no means did I expect that comment to derail this entire thread.

Perspective for 5 man content it makes no changes in fractals, dungeons, and pvp. In WvW and PVE your also getting people into your etheral field which is a bad thing when you consider the demand for fire fields and that reapers or overly dependant on their own fields. In raids they see it as a good thing not for the mesmer at all but it was done to free up a raid slot to kill the 2x raid chrono set up that was going on.

The 10person change is a change that was made for the sole purpose of raids and a poster child for Anet making blanket balance changes across the entire game based on raids. The very nature of warrior was drastically changed in WvW all because of raid balance. The raid balance for TW is good and the skill itself is obviously tailored for raids but that doesn’t fair well for solo play at all.

What class has a harder time in solo play than a pure Mesmers!? Be it solo wvw or in pve? A person may respond they don’t matter but the people that do care find themselves with less than viable skills at their disposal and thus they have to rely on racial skills like Take Root. That’s why Take Root and other racial skills have been such a major topic lately they really came to prominence during the balance patch prepping us for the upcoming raids in HoT. But even with that Mesmers in raids and necro/rangers are using Take Root for certain fights over their pure class biased elites because a basic direct DPS elite simply work out better.

Wait are you being serious here. You legit think mesmer is hard in solo play ?
Not only do you believe that you want to rationalize that misconception to use it as proof that took root needs to be left alone.

….Yeah we’re done here if that’s the case.
Mesmer has one of the easiest play patterns for solo content. Even in WvW and PvP they can pretty much win through passivity. Tell me that’s hard please.

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

I’ll admit I ignored this at first because its a raider response and you ignored the rest of the TW changes but by no means did I expect that comment to derail this entire thread.

Perspective for 5 man content it makes no changes in fractals, dungeons, and pvp. In WvW and PVE your also getting people into your etheral field which is a bad thing when you consider the demand for fire fields and that reapers or overly dependant on their own fields. In raids they see it as a good thing not for the mesmer at all but it was done to free up a raid slot to kill the 2x raid chrono set up that was going on.

The 10person change is a change that was made for the sole purpose of raids and a poster child for Anet making blanket balance changes across the entire game based on raids. The very nature of warrior was drastically changed in WvW all because of raid balance. The raid balance for TW is good and the skill itself is obviously tailored for raids but that doesn’t fair well for solo play at all.

What class has a harder time in solo play than a pure Mesmers!? Be it solo wvw or in pve? A person may respond they don’t matter but the people that do care find themselves with less than viable skills at their disposal and thus they have to rely on racial skills like Take Root. That’s why Take Root and other racial skills have been such a major topic lately they really came to prominence during the balance patch prepping us for the upcoming raids in HoT. But even with that Mesmers in raids and necro/rangers are using Take Root for certain fights over their pure class biased elites because a basic direct DPS elite simply work out better.

Wait are you being serious here. You legit think mesmer is hard in solo play ?
Not only do you believe that you want to rationalize that misconception to use it as proof that took root needs to be left alone.

….Yeah we’re done here if that’s the case.
Mesmer has one of the easiest play patterns for solo content. Even in WvW and PvP they can pretty much win through passivity. Tell me that’s hard please.

See what I mean a response who only wants to argue for the sake of arguing

So tell me what class has a harder time in PvE than mesmers

If Necro’s have the easiest time with their autoplay then which class is at the bottom of the Pve totem tower? Is it guardian? engineer? thief? ranger? If you can’t name a class thats lower than mesmer then you have no argument.

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Well yeah I’m a Mesmer main and my Glamours(TW) that used to spread random conditions now grant resistance and super speed plus timewarp effects ten people now.

Chrono is a tank/support role in raids and my skills were changed to reflect that ignoring how it effects other modes. Thus I have to fall back on to racial skills for my condition builds because mass wastes time and the other elites are counterproductive to torment and confusion.

You are cherry picking really hard here to scapegoat raids. The change to remove glamors giving random conditions came before raids. The change to timewarp was stupid but it wasn’t a raid only decision, WvW also played a role in that.

For proof of Changes – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23#Inspiration

SV release – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-spirit-vale-on-november-17/

Can’t blame everything on your favorite scapegoat. Please stop trying to. No one here is going to deny Anet and balancing is as good as the NFL and handling Social Issues.

tw effecting 10 ppl was a bad change?

I’ll admit I ignored this at first because its a raider response and you ignored the rest of the TW changes but by no means did I expect that comment to derail this entire thread.

Perspective for 5 man content it makes no changes in fractals, dungeons, and pvp. In WvW and PVE your also getting people into your etheral field which is a bad thing when you consider the demand for fire fields and that reapers or overly dependant on their own fields. In raids they see it as a good thing not for the mesmer at all but it was done to free up a raid slot to kill the 2x raid chrono set up that was going on.

The 10person change is a change that was made for the sole purpose of raids and a poster child for Anet making blanket balance changes across the entire game based on raids. The very nature of warrior was drastically changed in WvW all because of raid balance. The raid balance for TW is good and the skill itself is obviously tailored for raids but that doesn’t fair well for solo play at all.

What class has a harder time in solo play than a pure Mesmers!? Be it solo wvw or in pve? A person may respond they don’t matter but the people that do care find themselves with less than viable skills at their disposal and thus they have to rely on racial skills like Take Root. That’s why Take Root and other racial skills have been such a major topic lately they really came to prominence during the balance patch prepping us for the upcoming raids in HoT. But even with that Mesmers in raids and necro/rangers are using Take Root for certain fights over their pure class biased elites because a basic direct DPS elite simply work out better.

Wait are you being serious here. You legit think mesmer is hard in solo play ?
Not only do you believe that you want to rationalize that misconception to use it as proof that took root needs to be left alone.

….Yeah we’re done here if that’s the case.
Mesmer has one of the easiest play patterns for solo content. Even in WvW and PvP they can pretty much win through passivity. Tell me that’s hard please.

See what I mean a response who only wants to argue for the sake of arguing

So tell me what class has a harder time in PvE than mesmers

If Necro’s have the easiest time with their autoplay then which class is at the bottom of the Pve totem tower? Is it guardian? engineer? thief? ranger? If you can’t name a class thats lower than mesmer then you have no argument.

You can’t really be serious here.

I mean this nicely, but you just can’t be.

How does “insert opinion of class strength” matter in a balance discussion about a racial skill at all ?

Take Root is over-tuned for a (Racial) skill elite or not. It does not matter if mesmer(a class) is a literal dumpster fire that is an entirely separate situation that needs to be looked at independently of this ability.

I however will disagree that mesmer is a dumpster fire, additionally it is it not the hardest PvE class. That might be due to me having played each class but none of them are relatively hard and each one has a braindead ease of access build whether its clone/illusion spam, bearbow, turret/FT engie, MM, DD ele, Stance Dance Warrior etc……

can someone confirm that tw doesnt overright bigger stacks of quickness? Because i thinm it simply doesnt.

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Doam.8305:

Wait are you being serious here. You legit think mesmer is hard in solo play ?
Not only do you believe that you want to rationalize that misconception to use it as proof that took root needs to be left alone.

….Yeah we’re done here if that’s the case.
Mesmer has one of the easiest play patterns for solo content. Even in WvW and PvP they can pretty much win through passivity. Tell me that’s hard please.

See what I mean a response who only wants to argue for the sake of arguing

So tell me what class has a harder time in PvE than mesmers

If Necro’s have the easiest time with their autoplay then which class is at the bottom of the Pve totem tower? Is it guardian? engineer? thief? ranger? If you can’t name a class thats lower than mesmer then you have no argument.

You can’t really be serious here.

I mean this nicely, but you just can’t be.

How does “insert opinion of class strength” matter in a balance discussion about a racial skill at all ?

Take Root is over-tuned for a (Racial) skill elite or not. It does not matter if mesmer(a class) is a literal dumpster fire that is an entirely separate situation that needs to be looked at independently of this ability.

I however will disagree that mesmer is a dumpster fire, additionally it is it not the hardest PvE class. That might be due to me having played each class but none of them are relatively hard and each one has a braindead ease of access build whether its clone/illusion spam, bearbow, turret/FT engie, MM, DD ele, Stance Dance Warrior etc……

You do know the issue with take root is class/build based right? I mean here and even in other topics debating this issue people are only really talking about the Mesmer, Necro, and Ranger with their condition builds. It started with benchmark testing and trickled down to other aspects of the game hence why it became more widespread. Support and power builds have no need for it because they have better elites that compliment them.

You didn’t name a class but the glaring issues with the Mesmers core design issues are all well documented on the Mesmers official forum. Being the only unique class in GW2 amidst the basic mmo tropes of warriors, mages, and assassins at the launch of the game has made it the hardest to balance.

I’m sure you’d want some numbers so here ya go as on average the Mesmer has the lowest dps output of the classes. With only its niche raid boss build making the cut that can increase its dmg with take root and seed turret a bit but not enough to make it anything else but niche to certain bosses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5wbgt6/qt_updated_benchmarks_for_all_classes_february_22/

Necro isn’t on that list and this is because they require their fields so hitting their 30kish dps in group content is nigh impossible do to how fields prioritize.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGFf92ZzS0

In addition the third class the condi ranger does really well however entangle their condi elite does bleeds but is primarily about immobilization so any dps oriented racial elite would be superior dmg hence why they use Take Root.

It’s all trickle down gaming which I’m against the practice and wish people would use their own build however they’ll just switch to another racial if things change. The best each class can do is shown and thus we get an average tier. In the small hit-box range engineer with 33.8K condi build and the large hit box is elementalist with 38.k. The best a Mesmer can do is 25.8k. That’s a large gap for any meta and not even including some of the basic builds who didn’t even make the cut like power mesmer and the consequences are felt across the game.

If the classes were well balanced and even in similar ballpark then spvp wouldn’t have devolved into a reward grind that could be easily derailed over a few reward nerfs. That unbalance is the reason certain classes had to rely on their racial elite and utility skills.

zealex.9410:

can someone confirm that tw doesnt overright bigger stacks of quickness? Because i thinm it simply doesnt.

Maybe this will help it’s not official per say but they do have a video to back everything up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58jv0l/raidschronomancer_a_test_on_the_new_quickness/

Though it took place in Oct and our last balance patch was in Feburary and I couldn’t find anything post that last patch. However I don’t think the change they made would effect the outcome.

Yep the quickness stacks with bigger durration overide smaller ones Hype the 10 man timewarp in no way will kitten up the quickness. Not only that but in case anyone in the raid misses a tot or a well tw will fill that so there is no shortage on quickness on the group.