Guild Wars 2

Just sharing an experience I had. I have 3 level 80 toons, 2 of them are at FOTM scale 39+. I’ve also earned the Dungeon Master title and do daily random dungeon runs mostly with my guild but sometimes with a pug party. I’d like to think I’m not an elitist MOST of the time and in all my daily runs I’ve only ever initiated a kick once and it was not due to gear issues or “noob” behavior but simply because the player went afk at a crucial time (at the arm seals in a 30+ fractal) without any logical explanation.

So today I went with my fairly new but fully zerk-geared mesmer to my first COF p1 speed run with a pug group. I’ve done COF p1 countless times before, most of them with my guildmates. And yesterday I joined a “casual” speed farming pug group with my mesmer (had 1 ele and later 1 guard, not full zerk) that did well (did 1 run in an average of 15min). But the group I joined today was one of those elitist groups that wanted 4 zerk warriors and 1 zerk mesmer and demanded that we ping our gears. We finished 1 run in about 10min. I THOUGHT I did everything right including blink-porting them through the boulders (on my first try). Then after the run I got kicked. I asked two of them why. Only one of them was kind enough to reply and tell me what I should have done. He said I “didn’t pull the slave driver into the wall and didn’t time-warp fast enough”. Also I cast feedback late at the turrets (apparently they didn’t notice I cast Phantasmal warden before casting feedback). Other than that I did everything right, he said.

I am astonished at the level of elitism in the GW2 community now. And especially because from what I was told I only made minor errors that I could have easily changed. I’ve tolerated much worse mistakes from other players without raging or kicking. Wouldn’t it have been easier to tell me what I did wrong than risk getting a less experienced mesmer on the next run? Or is it really just easier to initiate a kick?

Sorry but this isn’t the level of elitism is the Guild Wars 2 community. This is one group of elitists in the Guild Wars 2 community. I’ve never played an MMO that didn’t have elitists. Even Guild War 1, not a true MMO, had elitists. It’s unavoidable.

You’re right to be kitten off. But please don’t paint the entire community with one brush. I think by percentage there’s less elitism in this game than most MMOs. You just got dealt a bad hand.

I cant really comment on “why” they did that.. This behavior is present in pretty much every online game.

I will say though, I am SO happy I dont take a video game so seriously that I would kick someone after some minor mistakes. I am also not one to speed run dungeons, etc, so maybe I just dont get it, or something. I probably would have removed myself before a second vote could even be placed, haha.

Vayne.8563:

Sorry but this isn’t the level of elitism is the Guild Wars 2 community. This is one group of elitists in the Guild Wars 2 community. I’ve never played an MMO that didn’t have elitists. Even Guild War 1, not a true MMO, had elitists. It’s unavoidable.

You’re right to be kitten off. But please don’t paint the entire community with one brush. I think by percentage there’s less elitism in this game than most MMOs. You just got dealt a bad hand.

I hope so. I suppose you don’t really notice it until you’re the one being kicked. I have seen elitists in many FOTM parties that I let slide because it didn’t happen to me. I have seen members kick other members over gear issue and I didn’t do anything because I wanted to stay in the party.

And this is why I don’t like to PUG dungeons. :/

This kind of mindset goes with the territory of speed runs. You do something so much so repetitively that you get to a point that your mind can’t help but become machine like and demands absolute efficiency. It is sad when people reach this point and are so blind that they don’t realize what they have become and take a step back. This is primarily why I avoid speed runs, or party requests with those near elite red flags. Link gear, know fights, ect. Demands like that.

I know how it feels to be shut down like that in an instant when truly you were doing your best. Try not to let it get to you. There are still good people in this game. We aren’t all tools.

Simple solution only pug if you start the dungeon then you can do the kicking :-)

I rarely see people who are as bad as these ones really.. I’ve ran CoF a fair number of times (with PUGs) and I am yet to encounter anyone as big of an kitten as these guys are.

LinkR.6190:

This kind of mindset goes with the territory of speed runs. You do something so much so repetitively that you get to a point that your mind can’t help but become machine like and demands absolute efficiency. It is sad when people reach this point and are so blind that they don’t realize what they have become and take a step back. This is primarily why I avoid speed runs, or party requests with those near elite red flags. Link gear, know fights, ect. Demands like that.

I know how it feels to be shut down like that in an instant when truly you were doing your best. Try not to let it get to you. There are still good people in this game. We aren’t all tools.

Oh yeah, I definitely understand that. Everybody risks getting into that mindset the better one gets at dungeons. Honestly it’s much more satisfying to see a less experienced player get better after a run with you than just to kick them (and sometimes it’s just fun to laugh at other people’s mistakes). I can just avoid pugs since I have an active dungeon-running guild. But it does get to a point where the community at large becomes so elitist that we shut out new players almost completely. Anybody here played World of Warcraft?

Let me get this straight. The OP’s mistake was:
1. Didnt pull slave driver into the wall.
2. Didnt time warp fast enough.
3. Didn’t cast feedback fast enough.

And for that you get kicked? OMG I am so thankful for being in my guild then. I’d have been kicked a hundred times over by such people. I ran several CoF p1 farms recently. We never really did #1, is it really THAT necessary? As for the other 2 points, well, I get that some people want to do fast runs and all but I feel like that just crosses the line. It’s not like the OP didn’t do it at all.

Barbelo.5916:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry but this isn’t the level of elitism is the Guild Wars 2 community. This is one group of elitists in the Guild Wars 2 community. I’ve never played an MMO that didn’t have elitists. Even Guild War 1, not a true MMO, had elitists. It’s unavoidable.

You’re right to be kitten off. But please don’t paint the entire community with one brush. I think by percentage there’s less elitism in this game than most MMOs. You just got dealt a bad hand.

I hope so. I suppose you don’t really notice it until you’re the one being kicked. I have seen elitists in many FOTM parties that I let slide because it didn’t happen to me. I have seen members kick other members over gear issue and I didn’t do anything because I wanted to stay in the party.

You’re usually best of joining a guild of like minded people and running with them. It’s much better than pugging anyway, at least for me.

There are horror stories of elitism in every game I’ve ever played, but far less here than in most. That’s because the game is designed to be less competitive. There’s no DPS meters, so no one can look at your DPS and say you haven’t done your job. There’s no gear score to exclude you up front. Some people say the achievement point leaderboard is a step in that direction, but if so it’s a baby step. I’m pretty sure Anet isn’t trying to design a game that fosters elitism.

generalraccoon.3857:

Let me get this straight. The OP’s mistake was:
1. Didnt pull slave driver into the wall.
2. Didnt time warp fast enough.
3. Didn’t cast feedback fast enough.

And for that you get kicked? OMG I am so thankful for being in my guild then. I’d have been kicked a hundred times over by such people. I ran several CoF p1 farms recently. We never really did #1, is it really THAT necessary? As for the other 2 points, well, I get that some people want to do fast runs and all but I feel like that just crosses the line. It’s not like the OP didn’t do it at all.

The person that told me all this said we would have saved “about 20 secs” had I done everything perfectly.

Although it has been said already in this thread, the level of elitism is not thankfully the norm. However, I have taken to going to the LFG site and placing the more onerous posts name into my in game block so as to not hear them advertise in L.A. or when and if we ever have an in-game LFG tool.

So IMO the LFG website serves more than one purpose.

Elitists everywhere; put them on an ignore list and don’t deal with them again. I will leave a part that kicks a player for not being “l337” enough or asks about equipment before they’ll let someone in. I have left parties over this. Gonna happen in every game eventually – kittens gonna be kittens.

I considering myself a bit of an elitist. I expect people to bring the right gear and such.

But that is kind of going over the top.

Elitism is part of every MMO, I never have problem finding a cof group. There are a lot of non elitism out there, gw2lfg.com is your best bet, and as long as you know what you’re doing, doesnt matter the group or class, you should finish in an efficient amount of time.

Vayne.8563:

Barbelo.5916:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry but this isn’t the level of elitism is the Guild Wars 2 community. This is one group of elitists in the Guild Wars 2 community. I’ve never played an MMO that didn’t have elitists. Even Guild War 1, not a true MMO, had elitists. It’s unavoidable.

You’re right to be kitten off. But please don’t paint the entire community with one brush. I think by percentage there’s less elitism in this game than most MMOs. You just got dealt a bad hand.

I hope so. I suppose you don’t really notice it until you’re the one being kicked. I have seen elitists in many FOTM parties that I let slide because it didn’t happen to me. I have seen members kick other members over gear issue and I didn’t do anything because I wanted to stay in the party.

You’re usually best of joining a guild of like minded people and running with them. It’s much better than pugging anyway, at least for me.

There are horror stories of elitism in every game I’ve ever played, but far less here than in most. That’s because the game is designed to be less competitive. There’s no DPS meters, so no one can look at your DPS and say you haven’t done your job. There’s no gear score to exclude you up front. Some people say the achievement point leaderboard is a step in that direction, but if so it’s a baby step. I’m pretty sure Anet isn’t trying to design a game that fosters elitism.

I’ve seen LFG’s demanding 3500+ Achievement points before the leaderboards… I guess it escaped their little brains that someone could have easily got all their points from salvaging junk.

Unless you specifically stated that you are a novice and then, if everyone agreed before the run started that it’s fine, you can not come here and complain about being kicked.
Speed runs are done for a reason. Most groups will run multiple times, and if you tell them beforehand they will (mostly) give you one or two runs to get your timing in and generally get better before expecting professional farming skills – that’s from my own experience with pugs.

I almost cried at that thread :’s

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Unless you specifically stated that you are a novice and then, if everyone agreed before the run started that it’s fine, you can not come here and complain about being kicked.
Speed runs are done for a reason. Most groups will run multiple times, and if you tell them beforehand they will (mostly) give you one or two runs to get your timing in and generally get better before expecting professional farming skills – that’s from my own experience with pugs.

The gw2lfg post asked for an “experienced” mesmer with full berserker gear. At that point I thought I was fairly experienced. The post didn’t say “must pull slave driver and timewarp fast” maybe because it sounds ridiculous. Since these groups only allow 1 mesmer I never got the chance to see another mesmer in action in these speed runs. I never would have known what I’d done wrong if I hadn’t asked. That’s what bothers me the most.

Barbelo.5916:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Unless you specifically stated that you are a novice and then, if everyone agreed before the run started that it’s fine, you can not come here and complain about being kicked.
Speed runs are done for a reason. Most groups will run multiple times, and if you tell them beforehand they will (mostly) give you one or two runs to get your timing in and generally get better before expecting professional farming skills – that’s from my own experience with pugs.

The gw2lfg post asked for an “experienced” mesmer with full berserker gear. At that point I thought I was fairly experienced. The post didn’t say “must pull slave driver and timewarp fast” maybe because it sounds ridiculous. Since these groups only allow 1 mesmer I never got the chance to see another mesmer in action in these speed runs. I never would have known what I’d done wrong if I hadn’t asked. That’s what bothers me the most.

Like I said, you’re right to be upset. I wouldn’t play with those guys if they paid me. You’re better off without them.

Barbelo.5916:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Unless you specifically stated that you are a novice and then, if everyone agreed before the run started that it’s fine, you can not come here and complain about being kicked.
Speed runs are done for a reason. Most groups will run multiple times, and if you tell them beforehand they will (mostly) give you one or two runs to get your timing in and generally get better before expecting professional farming skills – that’s from my own experience with pugs.

The gw2lfg post asked for an “experienced” mesmer with full berserker gear. At that point I thought I was fairly experienced. The post didn’t say “must pull slave driver and timewarp fast” maybe because it sounds ridiculous. Since these groups only allow 1 mesmer I never got the chance to see another mesmer in action in these speed runs. I never would have known what I’d done wrong if I hadn’t asked. That’s what bothers me the most.

I agree that their action was inappropriate given the context of their ad. They should’ve specified what they expect everyone to do, especially since you are the only mesmer. You pulling the slave driver or putting up a feedback isn’t even necessary for a fast run if them warriors weren’t so reliant on you. It was an odd preference by them and it is understandable that you are upset about it.

Is kicking mesmers a common habit among COF speed run pug parties now? I’m just wondering.

Leo Paul.1659

They should’ve specified what they expect everyone to do, especially since you are the only mesmer. You pulling the slave driver or putting up a feedback isn’t even necessary for a fast run if them warriors weren’t so reliant on you. It was an odd preference by them and it is understandable that you are upset about it.

Anyone remember the Monk Strike from GW1? We should do a Mesmer Strike for CoF 1 speed runs.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Although it has been said already in this thread, the level of elitism is not thankfully the norm. However, I have taken to going to the LFG site and placing the more onerous posts name into my in game block so as to not hear them advertise in L.A. or when and if we ever have an in-game LFG tool.

So IMO the LFG website serves more than one purpose.

if any ones time is that important he probably shouldnt be playing video games.

Barbelo.5916:

Just sharing an experience I had. I have 3 level 80 toons, 2 of them are at FOTM scale 39+. I’ve also earned the Dungeon Master title and do daily random dungeon runs mostly with my guild but sometimes with a pug party. I’d like to think I’m not an elitist MOST of the time and in all my daily runs I’ve only ever initiated a kick once and it was not due to gear issues or “noob” behavior but simply because the player went afk at a crucial time (at the arm seals in a 30+ fractal) without any logical explanation.

So today I went with my fairly new but fully zerk-geared mesmer to my first COF p1 speed run with a pug group. I’ve done COF p1 countless times before, most of them with my guildmates. And yesterday I joined a “casual” speed farming pug group with my mesmer (had 1 ele and later 1 guard, not full zerk) that did well (did 1 run in an average of 15min). But the group I joined today was one of those elitist groups that wanted 4 zerk warriors and 1 zerk mesmer and demanded that we ping our gears. We finished 1 run in about 10min. I THOUGHT I did everything right including blink-porting them through the boulders (on my first try). Then after the run I got kicked. I asked two of them why. Only one of them was kind enough to reply and tell me what I should have done. He said I “didn’t pull the slave driver into the wall and didn’t time-warp fast enough”. Also I cast feedback late at the turrets (apparently they didn’t notice I cast Phantasmal warden before casting feedback). Other than that I did everything right, he said.

I am astonished at the level of elitism in the GW2 community now. And especially because from what I was told I only made minor errors that I could have easily changed. I’ve tolerated much worse mistakes from other players without raging or kicking. Wouldn’t it have been easier to tell me what I did wrong than risk getting a less experienced mesmer on the next run? Or is it really just easier to initiate a kick?

It’s sad because this is one of the things that is killing World of Warcraft. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7864486403

Well since this group was obviously looking for fellow elitist like them, you shouldn’t have joined in the first place. But to be fair, what they mentioned is what I usually do when I run my mesmer for cof p1 farm. It’s fairly standard, casting feedback just before the turret hits, pulling mobs to the right turret, pulling slave driver into the war and casting TW immediately after, using signet of inspiration when you have 10+ might stacks or so the situation requires. You’re obviously a good player but not the elite they wanted. Just join another party with more freedom. COF p1 is one of the few runs that people require the absolute perfection and to be honest, more than ever, it’s usually ALWAYS the warriors which slow the run down than anything a mesmer can do. If a warrior downs, it’s not the mesmers fault, it’s cause these zerker warriors don’t know how to use their dodge function appropriately (even if they think they do).

The worst elitist are the ones who THINK they are but really aren’t. There is no shame in being a little arrogant if you’re really that good but if you’re no good but you blame OTHERS for your death often, maybe you’re not so elite after all. Real elites can make even the worst party shine (given they at least follow or have some sort of communication e.g. k bro)

Barbelo.5916:

The gw2lfg post asked for an “experienced” mesmer with full berserker gear.

That’s your warning right there.

Those guys were playing a different game from the rest of us. I don’t envy them – their enjoyment of the game must be very shallow, their people skills seem dismal, at best, and if their actions are indicative, their values can’t be giving them a great experience of life either. Be grateful that at least GW2 is keeping them off the streets.

Zaxares.5419:

Leo Paul.1659

They should’ve specified what they expect everyone to do, especially since you are the only mesmer. You pulling the slave driver or putting up a feedback isn’t even necessary for a fast run if them warriors weren’t so reliant on you. It was an odd preference by them and it is understandable that you are upset about it.

Anyone remember the Monk Strike from GW1? We should do a Mesmer Strike for CoF 1 speed runs.

I don’t have a level 80 warrior yet but I imagine warriors have an easier time than mesmers. There are many intricacies (and annoying quirks) to the mesmer class. I did cast timewarp about 5 sec after boss aggro because I wanted to have 3 clones alive to maximize my damage. Seems warriors don’t think about this.

Zenguy.6421:

Barbelo.5916:

The gw2lfg post asked for an “experienced” mesmer with full berserker gear.

That’s your warning right there.

Those guys were playing a different game from the rest of us. I don’t envy them – their enjoyment of the game must be very shallow, their people skills seem dismal, at best, and if their actions are indicative, their values can’t be giving them a great experience of life either. Be grateful that at least GW2 is keeping them off the streets.

LOL!

Lafiel.9372:

Well since this group was obviously looking for fellow elitist like them, you shouldn’t have joined in the first place. But to be fair, what they mentioned is what I usually do when I run my mesmer for cof p1 farm. It’s fairly standard, casting feedback just before the turret hits, pulling mobs to the right turret, pulling slave driver into the war and casting TW immediately after, using signet of inspiration when you have 10+ might stacks or so the situation requires. You’re obviously a good player but not the elite they wanted. Just join another more party with more freedom. COF p1 is one of the few runs that people require the absolute perfection and to be honest, more than ever, it’s usually ALWAYS the warriors which slow the run down than anything a mesmer can do. If a warrior downs, it’s not the mesmers fault, it’s cause these zerker warriors don’t know how to use their dodge function appropriately (even if they think they do).

The worst elitist are the ones who THINK they are but really aren’t. There is no shame in being a little arrogant if you’re really that good but if you’re no good but you blame OTHERS for your death often, maybe you’re not so elite after all. Real elites can make even the worst party shine (given they at least follow or have some sort of communication e.g. k bro)

Thanks. I didn’t know those things (signet of inspiration and pulling mobs to the right turret). It’s odd that people (mostly warrior players) in these speed runs expect mesmer players to know that but then allow only 1 mesmer in the group and kick that one mesmer if they didn’t do things perfectly, without telling them exactly what they did wrong.

Someone mistaking the term elitism here.

Your case has absolutely nothing to do with elitism. A group leader wanted to do speed farm CoF p1. The other group members joined thinking to do the same. While you may think 10 minutes is a decent time record, even pug groups can manage 7 minute runs with ping-gear-checked zerker warriors/mesmer that all know what they are doing. And pulling the Slave Driver is pretty much the basic of basics as the mesmer’s role in CoF p1 farming. While you may stick around for only a couple of runs, a lot of those groups farm p1 for HOURS, and a 3 minute difference per run is huge. So if the group leader’s not happy with your job, you should know you had every right to start your own group to enforce your own standards on speed farming.

He didn’t kick you because you weren’t as good as him (“I can do better than you, gtfo”), he kicked you because he thought you were the reason the group was not up to whatever standard he expected (“I can save time with a better mesmer”). This kind of reasoning has nothing to do with elitism.

Barbelo.5916:

Lafiel.9372:

Well since this group was obviously looking for fellow elitist like them, you shouldn’t have joined in the first place. But to be fair, what they mentioned is what I usually do when I run my mesmer for cof p1 farm. It’s fairly standard, casting feedback just before the turret hits, pulling mobs to the right turret, pulling slave driver into the war and casting TW immediately after, using signet of inspiration when you have 10+ might stacks or so the situation requires. You’re obviously a good player but not the elite they wanted. Just join another more party with more freedom. COF p1 is one of the few runs that people require the absolute perfection and to be honest, more than ever, it’s usually ALWAYS the warriors which slow the run down than anything a mesmer can do. If a warrior downs, it’s not the mesmers fault, it’s cause these zerker warriors don’t know how to use their dodge function appropriately (even if they think they do).

The worst elitist are the ones who THINK they are but really aren’t. There is no shame in being a little arrogant if you’re really that good but if you’re no good but you blame OTHERS for your death often, maybe you’re not so elite after all. Real elites can make even the worst party shine (given they at least follow or have some sort of communication e.g. k bro)

Thanks. I didn’t know those things (signet of inspiration and pulling mobs to the right turret). It’s odd that people (mostly warrior players) in these speed runs expect mesmer players to know that but then allow only 1 mesmer in the group and kick that one mesmer if they didn’t do things perfectly, without telling them exactly what they did wrong.

Well now you know Everyone has to learn somewhere. You just got a bad apple who wasn’t patient with you. I too learned how to run CoF the farm way with a farming group. They suggested what I should do in the methods I was lacking and I followed. That’s how it is suppose to be.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Although it has been said already in this thread, the level of elitism is not thankfully the norm. However, I have taken to going to the LFG site and placing the more onerous posts name into my in game block so as to not hear them advertise in L.A. or when and if we ever have an in-game LFG tool.

So IMO the LFG website serves more than one purpose.

if any ones time is that important he probably shouldnt be playing video games.

Well I’m retired but my time is precious enough that not wasting it on elitist kittens along with the drama that comes with them is worthwhile to me.

Feel free to criticize me though; by the way how are my boots you seem to be wearing?

edit: clarity

ExZee.8109:

Someone mistaking the term elitism here.

Your case has absolutely nothing to do with elitism. A group leader wanted to do speed farm CoF p1. The other group members joined thinking to do the same. While you may think 10 minutes is a decent time record, even pug groups can manage 7 minute runs with ping-gear-checked zerker warriors/mesmer that all know what they are doing. And pulling the Slave Driver is pretty much the basic of basics as the mesmer’s role in CoF p1 farming. While you may stick around for only a couple of runs, a lot of those groups farm p1 for HOURS, and a 3 minute difference per run is huge. So if the group leader’s not happy with your job, you should know you had every right to start your own group to enforce your own standards on speed farming.

He didn’t kick you because you weren’t as good as him (“I can do better than you, gtfo”), he kicked you because he thought you were the reason the group was not up to whatever standard he expected (“I can save time with a better mesmer”). This kind of reasoning has nothing to do with elitism.

Except that a simple explanation produces another mesmer than can do the job, instead of being an elitist and kicking someone for something that could have easily improved on the next run.

I don’t care if the guy does 10 runs or 1000 there’s no excuse for being an idiot.

Barbelo.5916:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Unless you specifically stated that you are a novice and then, if everyone agreed before the run started that it’s fine, you can not come here and complain about being kicked.
Speed runs are done for a reason. Most groups will run multiple times, and if you tell them beforehand they will (mostly) give you one or two runs to get your timing in and generally get better before expecting professional farming skills – that’s from my own experience with pugs.

The gw2lfg post asked for an “experienced” mesmer with full berserker gear. At that point I thought I was fairly experienced. The post didn’t say “must pull slave driver and timewarp fast” maybe because it sounds ridiculous. Since these groups only allow 1 mesmer I never got the chance to see another mesmer in action in these speed runs. I never would have known what I’d done wrong if I hadn’t asked. That’s what bothers me the most.

Ok, I’m not saying what happened is 100% fair but you should know what you are letting yourself in for when you join those groups. If I see “experienced” in a post I normally think it safe to assume they mean experience with the dungeon being advertised. But I digress…
First time I ran CoF in a speedfarm group with my warrior I was amazed at how effortless the whole speedfarm thing actually is. As a warrior you really have to suck hard to not do it right. Then I leveled a mesmer… whole different ballgame. You can make a huge difference in the time a run takes. For example, pulling something correctly probably doesn’t sound like a big deal but with the way the warrior’s GS #3 works it’s much better if the mob is against a wall.
It’s all about efficiency (a curse word, in a casual-orientated game like this).
:-)

Sokar Rostau.7316:

Vayne.8563:

Barbelo.5916:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry but this isn’t the level of elitism is the Guild Wars 2 community. This is one group of elitists in the Guild Wars 2 community. I’ve never played an MMO that didn’t have elitists. Even Guild War 1, not a true MMO, had elitists. It’s unavoidable.

You’re right to be kitten off. But please don’t paint the entire community with one brush. I think by percentage there’s less elitism in this game than most MMOs. You just got dealt a bad hand.

I hope so. I suppose you don’t really notice it until you’re the one being kicked. I have seen elitists in many FOTM parties that I let slide because it didn’t happen to me. I have seen members kick other members over gear issue and I didn’t do anything because I wanted to stay in the party.

You’re usually best of joining a guild of like minded people and running with them. It’s much better than pugging anyway, at least for me.

There are horror stories of elitism in every game I’ve ever played, but far less here than in most. That’s because the game is designed to be less competitive. There’s no DPS meters, so no one can look at your DPS and say you haven’t done your job. There’s no gear score to exclude you up front. Some people say the achievement point leaderboard is a step in that direction, but if so it’s a baby step. I’m pretty sure Anet isn’t trying to design a game that fosters elitism.

I’ve seen LFG’s demanding 3500+ Achievement points before the leaderboards… I guess it escaped their little brains that someone could have easily got all their points from salvaging junk.

I have 4000 achievo points and haven’t even touched a dungeon :-)

Having said that, given the OP comments I wouldn’t even consider anything he requires as something to consider in a group. Time taken to finish a dungeon? Equipped gear? Character Class? Who gives a toss.. my only requirement is to perhaps be somewhere around the right level for the content, and to enjoy playing the game.

I don’t even care if we couldn’t finish a dungeon/mission. Maybe that’s why I love this game so…

I think what might help you in this situation would be someone to give you a rough explanation and guide as to the reasoning and the logic behind doing certain things from various perspectives.

I don’t have a main character at all. I do have a warrior and a mesmer, created specifically for the sole purpose of running CoF p1 to earn gold for me to enjoy playing my necromancer.

The necromancer is one sad story in terms of the speed in which it clears mobs, but I like to play it for some reason unknown to me and I love to use epidemic. Maybe it’s the sound effect… I digress.

Here’s the utility that you should be bringing, as an experienced mesmer, to running CoF p1 efficiently.

1. Feedback
2. Signet of Inspiration
3. Optional (I typically bring the signet that is a stun breaker on activation and when not activated, it increases boon duration… can’t remember what it’s proper name is. I’ll explain why I bring this.)

Before Magg blows up the gate, usually the warriors will build adrenaline and a few seconds prior to the start, they will buff each other with “For Great Justice!” (which we will lovingly refer to as “FGJ”.

This gives everyone in the radius 3 stacks of might and a fury buff.
1. Might increases power -> Increases damage output.
2. Fury increases critical strike chance by 20%.
3. As a mesmer, I will activate signet of inspiration once all the warriors have put out FGJ. It is important to note that you only activate signet of inspiration last, and here’s why:

One warrior gives 3 stacks of might and a fury buff. 4 warriors gives out 12 stacks of might and the fury buff, while unable to stack, increases in duration. When you receive 12 stacks of might and you activate the signet of inspiration, you copy those 12 stacks of might together with the fury, and double those stacks to everyone.

This means, the warriors now have 24 stacks of might, and a fury buff before Magg blows open the gate, on top of their already high burst DPS damage, wearing berserker gear.

Once Magg blows up the gate, use focus #4 to pull the mobs to the side of the wall on the right hand side near the right brazier. The reason for doing this, is to allow the warriors to use greatsword skill #2 – the hundred blades.

The hundred blade skill is a channeling skill, which means that the warriors cannot move while this skill is being used. The amount of damage dealt by the hundred blade skill for each warrior is approximately 25k to 30k and the skill cleaves. Cleaving means, everything around the warrior when this skill is being performed, takes the same damage that is being thrown at the main target.

When the mesmer pulls the mobs to the right wall, and the 4 warriors proceed to the right side as well to cleave with the hundred blades, effectively they are proccing 25k to 30k in damage to the 2 flame legion and the right brazier.

Multiply that by 4, and top it off with the 24 stacks of might on each warrior, you can see how effectively efficient that is. Then the mesmer will need to throw up a feedback bubble so that the left brazier’s flame, does not 1 shot all of you, when the party focuses on the right, and will cause the left braizer’s projectile attack to bounce off, and damage itself.

Once this is cleared, the party moves on to the slave driver.

ExZee.8109:

Someone mistaking the term elitism here.

Your case has absolutely nothing to do with elitism. A group leader wanted to do speed farm CoF p1. The other group members joined thinking to do the same. While you may think 10 minutes is a decent time record, even pug groups can manage 7 minute runs with ping-gear-checked zerker warriors/mesmer that all know what they are doing. And pulling the Slave Driver is pretty much the basic of basics as the mesmer’s role in CoF p1 farming. While you may stick around for only a couple of runs, a lot of those groups farm p1 for HOURS, and a 3 minute difference per run is huge. So if the group leader’s not happy with your job, you should know you had every right to start your own group to enforce your own standards on speed farming.

He didn’t kick you because you weren’t as good as him (“I can do better than you, gtfo”), he kicked you because he thought you were the reason the group was not up to whatever standard he expected (“I can save time with a better mesmer”). This kind of reasoning has nothing to do with elitism.

I read forums constantly but rarely post, but this I had to. Are you insane?! This is the very definition of elitism! 3 minutes?! Are you really going to complain over 3 minutes?! This guy even said he was told that had he done everything proper it would have shaved 20 SECONDS! Not 3 minutes.. 20 SECONDS! This is the reason so many people are anti pug and miss out on running dungeons. They hear stories like this and think OMG! If you are going to kick someone because he cost you 20 seconds in a run, you REALLY need to reevaluate your life choices.

I love this game and honestly have no life and play way more then I should, but even when we are trying to do speed runs in my guild with pug people we tell them what they could have done better and then run it again to help them improve. If we can make 10 minutes with even 1 pug we are ecstatic.

When this kind of stuff happens I place all the elitist (insert favorite expletive here) on ignore and never deal with them again. We play games for FUN. Not to be slammed because we cost someone a precious 20 seconds of their life.

Again, before the slave driver is activated, usually the warriors will throw down banners of strength, discipline and the warbanner.

1. Banner of strength -> Increases power and condition damage for the party -> Increases damage output

2. Banner of discipline -> Increases precision and critical strike damage -> Increases critical damage output frequency.

3. Warbanner -> Grants stability, fury, and some other buffs that I can’t remember offhand.

After which, each warrior will buff FGJ again. Basically the essence and purpose behind doing all these things are the same. You can see that everyone is trying to pre-buff one another as high, as far, and as long as possible to prepare for the duration of the fight.

It allows the boss to be taken down quickly, and as painlessly as possible. Once the slave driver is activated, the mob’s name and bar will turn from green to red color. Mesmer, using the focus #4 skill, pulls the boss to the wall.

This prevents the boss from running around, and allows the warriors to activate the channeling hundred blade skill. After the mesmer pulls the slave driver, put down time warp to increase everyone’s attack rate, which allows even faster damage output.

If the boss were to run around, then part of the hundred blade damage will not be dealt, when he runs out of range. That’s why it is important to lock the slave driver in place at the wall.

Not forgetting that everyone has been buffed, and by this time, your signet of inspiration should have returned to full cooldown, activate again, doubling each warrior’s might stack and fury duration.

During this fight, it is not uncommon for a warrior or two, to be down. If I am running this on a very good team, I typically don’t res them. The reason behind is because, we are taking down the boss faster than we can rescue the downed warrior that got targetted. So continuing to melt the boss quickly will rally anyone who is down.

A good reference to a fast speed clear would be the entire duration of a timewarp followed by a feedback bubble.

And here’s the reason why I brought the signet that lengthens boon duration. For the slave driver, it’s to help maximize the durations of the buffs that I am giving out, and when we run over to the acolytes area, if you happen to get knocked down, chances are, you’d be dead in a matter of split seconds.

What this signet does, when you activate it is, it allows you to get up on your feet immediately on cast (i.e. a stun breaker) and also blinds all nearby foes, which increases your chances of survival when you get up from a knockdown that deals godlike damage.

After the mesmer does the portal at the rolling flame boulders, the warrior’s will buff each other with FGJ again. Same process repeats and for the same purpose. When the last FGJ is popped, the mesmer activates the signet of inspiration to give all the warriors 24 stacks of might.

This will help the warrior, who is doing the gate controller, to clear it effectively and efficiently.

EDIT: Included the reason why the mesmer pull was necessary. And included the reason why I brought the other signet. Lawled. Completely forgot about it.

And then finally, moving on to the last boss.

Once everyone is gathered, everyone goes melee range, including the mesmer (technically you should already be in melee range, and using a sword because of its impressive burst skill #2).

Everyone starts buffing, and the mesmer throws out the signet of inspiration again to double all the stacks of boons and buffs. This is also the time to throw down time warp. After the boss lets down an AOE burn (that huge red circle), you should throw up the feedback bubble if you are not sure when to cast it, especially if you don’t react fast enough to the boss’s tell tale signs.

This will cause the AOE knockdown that the boss releases to bounce back and damage him for approximately 30k if done correctly, and will also spare the warriors from getting knockdown, and might also prevent them from getting the AOE burn.

There’s no hard and fast rule as to when to put down which skill for this fight because a lot depends on the action of the last boss and how you react to his tell tale signs if you know how to read it.

However, the fight doesn’t stray very far from what I’ve described here so the mechanics are more or less layed out. It’s just the sequencing of how you put out the proper utilities from reading the situation.

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

OliverT.9021:

I think what might help you in this situation would be someone to give you a rough explanation and guide as to the reasoning and the logic behind doing certain things from various perspectives.

Pretty much this.
Edit: nice walkthrough, I hope everyone reads this.

I also found strife’s videos on youtube to be excellent in explaining the dynamics and class roles (warrior, guardian and mesmer roles) in CoF and most other dungeons.

OliverT.9021:

Again, before the slave driver is activated, usually the warriors will throw down banners of strength, discipline and the warbanner.

1. Banner of strength -> Increases power and condition damage for the party -> Increases damage output

2. Banner of discipline -> Increases precision and critical strike damage -> Increases critical damage output frequency.

3. Warbanner -> Grants stability, fury, and some other buffs that I can’t remember offhand.

After which, each warrior will buff FGJ again. Basically the essence and purpose behind doing all these things are the same. You can see that everyone is trying to pre-buff one another as high, as far, and as long as possible to prepare for the duration of the fight.

It allows the boss to be taken down quickly, and as painlessly as possible. Once the slave driver is activated, the mob’s name and bar will turn from green to red color. Mesmer, using the focus #4 skill, pulls the boss to the wall.

This prevents the boss from running around, and allows the warriors to activate the channeling hundred blade skill. After the mesmer pulls the slave driver, put down time warp to increase everyone’s attack rate, which allows even faster damage output.

Not forgetting that everyone has been buffed, and by this time, your signet of inspiration should have returned to full cooldown, activate again, doubling each warrior’s might stack and fury duration.

During this fight, it is not uncommon for a warrior or two, to be down. If I am running this on a very good team, I typically don’t res them. The reason behind is because, we are taking down the boss faster than we can rescue the downed warrior that got targetted. So continuing to melt the boss quickly will rally anyone who is down.

After the mesmer does the portal at the rolling flame boulders, the warrior’s will buff each other with FGJ again. Same process repeats and for the same purpose. When the last FGJ is popped, the mesmer activates the signet of inspiration to give all the warriors 24 stacks of might.

This will help the warrior, who is doing the gate controller, to clear it effectively and efficiently

Thanks. That’s really what I needed. I read everything. It’s funny that I got kicked for things that don’t require any skill at all; it’s just that I hadn’t been well-informed about my class. The hardest part is to blink+portal before boulders even roll down and really if you can do that everything else is secondary. To me the opposite of elitism is teaching people like this.

I think that’s why I consider what those guys did elitism. They’re keeping the knoweledge to themselves, knowledge they could have shared, which maintains an us and a them. We’re the elite. We can treat people with disdain. That’s the very definition of elitism to me.

OliverT.9021:

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

Had to quote this.
See, others in this thread can be so quick to call players things like small brained or idiots… without thinking why people do these runs in the first place. If anet didn’t put such ridiculous RNG on precursors, the droprate of lodestones and some other mats then there would be no need to go to these lengths in order to farm for the required gold. These same posters probably think the farmers find doing this more fun than hanging out with guildies doing some random thing for kittens and giggles.

Apologists being apologetic?
Thought so.

Thayel.1236:

I read forums constantly but rarely post, but this I had to. Are you insane?! This is the very definition of elitism! 3 minutes?! Are you really going to complain over 3 minutes?! This guy even said he was told that had he done everything proper it would have shaved 20 SECONDS! Not 3 minutes.. 20 SECONDS! This is the reason so many people are anti pug and miss out on running dungeons. They hear stories like this and think OMG! If you are going to kick someone because he cost you 20 seconds in a run, you REALLY need to reevaluate your life choices.

I love this game and honestly have no life and play way more then I should, but even when we are trying to do speed runs in my guild with pug people we tell them what they could have done better and then run it again to help them improve. If we can make 10 minutes with even 1 pug we are ecstatic.

When this kind of stuff happens I place all the elitist (insert favorite expletive here) on ignore and never deal with them again. We play games for FUN. Not to be slammed because we cost someone a precious 20 seconds of their life.

I’m going to reply you with this:

Vayne.8563:

We’re the elite. We can treat people with disdain. That’s the very definition of elitism to me.

Because I find it to be beautifully ironic.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

OliverT.9021:

I think what might help you in this situation would be someone to give you a rough explanation and guide as to the reasoning and the logic behind doing certain things from various perspectives.

Pretty much this.
Edit: nice walkthrough, I hope everyone reads this.

I also found strife’s videos on youtube to be excellent in explaining the dynamics and class roles (warrior, guardian and mesmer roles) in CoF and most other dungeons.

Hahaha, thank you very much. Am at work at the moment, and given that I’ve cleared my work and have nothing on hand, I thought I’d explain for the bunch of us who do speed clears.

I’ve actually not seen anyone who has done a detailed write up on walk through and I feel that there’s a lot of pre-conceived notion of what the speed clear people are like, because of the lack of understanding and communication.

OliverT.9021:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

OliverT.9021:

I think what might help you in this situation would be someone to give you a rough explanation and guide as to the reasoning and the logic behind doing certain things from various perspectives.

Pretty much this.
Edit: nice walkthrough, I hope everyone reads this.

I also found strife’s videos on youtube to be excellent in explaining the dynamics and class roles (warrior, guardian and mesmer roles) in CoF and most other dungeons.

Hahaha, thank you very much. Am at work at the moment, and given that I’ve cleared my work and have nothing on hand, I thought I’d explain for the bunch of us who do speed clears.

I’ve actually not seen anyone who has done a detailed write up on walk through and I feel that there’s a lot of pre-conceived notion of what the speed clear people are like, because of the lack of understanding and communication.

Absolutely. People don’t know what to do and others don’t seem to know why it’s being done. Posts like yours are constructive for starter farmers as well as educational for those who don’t fully understand the reasons behind farming.

“there’s a lot of pre-conceived notion of what the speed clear people are like”
To be fair, though, you do get bad apples. Typically those who, for some reason, can only post in all caps on gw2lfg. Those who, while being good at running the dungeon, are very bad at playing with others. Nothing to be done but avoiding these players or groups.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

OliverT.9021:

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

Had to quote this.
See, others in this thread can be so quick to call players things like small brained or idiots… without thinking why people do these runs in the first place. If anet didn’t put such ridiculous RNG on precursors, the droprate of lodestones and some other mats then there would be no need to go to these lengths in order to farm for the required gold. These same posters probably think the farmers find doing this more fun than hanging out with guildies doing some random thing for kittens and giggles.

I see your point, but I think that by speed-farming CoF P1, you’re playing exactly into ANet’s hands. Now they think, “See? Our requirements for Legendaries/Ascended/etc. are perfectly fine since so many players are still achieving it!” They don’t see that a lot of these players are gritting their teeth and forcing their way through what sounds like incredibly tedious repetition (assumption here. I’ve yet to even play a single dungeon) to get what they want.

We should have just put our foot down and insisted on easier or more diverse ways to obtain Precursors and other high end components rather than give in to the old cycle of grinding/farming for hundreds of hours. (To be fair to ANet here, they did ameliorate this somewhat by the introduction of Orrian Jewelry Boxes and Laurels.)

ExZee.8109:

Thayel.1236:

I read forums constantly but rarely post, but this I had to. Are you insane?! This is the very definition of elitism! 3 minutes?! Are you really going to complain over 3 minutes?! This guy even said he was told that had he done everything proper it would have shaved 20 SECONDS! Not 3 minutes.. 20 SECONDS! This is the reason so many people are anti pug and miss out on running dungeons. They hear stories like this and think OMG! If you are going to kick someone because he cost you 20 seconds in a run, you REALLY need to reevaluate your life choices.

I love this game and honestly have no life and play way more then I should, but even when we are trying to do speed runs in my guild with pug people we tell them what they could have done better and then run it again to help them improve. If we can make 10 minutes with even 1 pug we are ecstatic.

When this kind of stuff happens I place all the elitist (insert favorite expletive here) on ignore and never deal with them again. We play games for FUN. Not to be slammed because we cost someone a precious 20 seconds of their life.

I’m going to reply you with this:

Vayne.8563:

We’re the elite. We can treat people with disdain. That’s the very definition of elitism to me.

Because I find it to be beautifully ironic.

I argue my point. I never insult people. Other people call me names a whole lot more often than I call them names. I don’t agree with someone’s point and that makes me an elitist?

I think you are confusing the word with something else. I’ve never considered myself part of any elite. If anything, I have a relatively low opinion of myself. Nice try though.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

OliverT.9021:

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

Had to quote this.
See, others in this thread can be so quick to call players things like small brained or idiots… without thinking why people do these runs in the first place. If anet didn’t put such ridiculous RNG on precursors, the droprate of lodestones and some other mats then there would be no need to go to these lengths in order to farm for the required gold. These same posters probably think the farmers find doing this more fun than hanging out with guildies doing some random thing for kittens and giggles.

Apologists being apologetic?
Thought so.

You seem to fail to understand it is not what they do in game but how they do it that makes them elitists. Bad attitude remains bad attitude whatever justification you throw at it. That’s why people say small minded and idiots when referring to these kinds of players. It is also exactly the reason I stopped running CoF.