Guild Wars 2

They exist for PvP and WvW.

I agree thieves OP we need to buff warriors! As it is thy are the least played class! Joking aside I agree this is a big problem that needs to be addressed.

LF4M ASCENDED ONLY 3 ZERK WAR 1 ZERK MESMER

The main reason for this is that power scales too well. When comparing Soldier’s gear to Celestial gear, even the combined effects of the extra precision, condition and critical damage aren’t enough to make up for the loss of power. It’s too good, it scales too well, and it’s effect on the base damage of skills should be lowered. If that were to happen, a lot more gear options would suddenly become viable.

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason for this is that power scales too well. When comparing Soldier’s gear to Celestial gear, even the combined effects of the extra precision, condition and critical damage aren’t enough to make up for the loss of power. It’s too good, it scales too well, and it’s effect on the base damage of skills should be lowered. If that were to happen, a lot more gear options would suddenly become viable.

No it’s because of the content.

Knote.2904:

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason for this is that power scales too well. When comparing Soldier’s gear to Celestial gear, even the combined effects of the extra precision, condition and critical damage aren’t enough to make up for the loss of power. It’s too good, it scales too well, and it’s effect on the base damage of skills should be lowered. If that were to happen, a lot more gear options would suddenly become viable.

No it’s because of the content.

Explain please.

ThiBash.5634:

Knote.2904:

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason for this is that power scales too well. When comparing Soldier’s gear to Celestial gear, even the combined effects of the extra precision, condition and critical damage aren’t enough to make up for the loss of power. It’s too good, it scales too well, and it’s effect on the base damage of skills should be lowered. If that were to happen, a lot more gear options would suddenly become viable.

No it’s because of the content.

Explain please.

As the OP just said, there’s nothing but one shots, anything tankier than zerker essentially just slows down the killing for no benefit.

Condition Builds get limited and probably lose DPS on the slow beginning ramp up on top of how fast a boss or mobs die.

There’s just nothing in the content that demands anything other than Zerker builds.

Knote.2904:

As the OP just said, there’s nothing but one shots, anything tankier than zerker essentially just slows down the killing for no benefit.

Condition Builds get limited and probably lose DPS on the slow beginning ramp up on top of how fast a boss or mobs die.

There’s just nothing in the content that demands anything other than Zerker builds.

I suppose that’s part of it. What I notice in practice is that most zerkers tend to ‘leave the boss for a breather’ when their health gets too low. With a bit more defensive gear, they could have stuck around and continue attacking but apparently their dps is so much higher that they still deal more damage even if they don’t fight 100% of the time.

So yes, what you say is certainly true. But the other side is that compared to all other stats, Power is twice as powerful as literally anything else. It may not be THE reason, but it’s certainly something that should be changed, and non-zerker gear would certainly be more useful if the dps gap wasn’t so frikkin large.

ThiBash.5634:

Knote.2904:

As the OP just said, there’s nothing but one shots, anything tankier than zerker essentially just slows down the killing for no benefit.

Condition Builds get limited and probably lose DPS on the slow beginning ramp up on top of how fast a boss or mobs die.

There’s just nothing in the content that demands anything other than Zerker builds.

I suppose that’s part of it. What I notice in practice is that most zerkers tend to ‘leave the boss for a breather’ when their health gets too low. With a bit more defensive gear, they could have stuck around and continue attacking but apparently their dps is so much higher that they still deal more damage even if they don’t fight 100% of the time.

So yes, what you say is certainly true. But the other side is that compared to all other stats, Power is twice as powerful as literally anything else. It may not be THE reason, but it’s certainly something that should be changed, and non-zerker gear would certainly be more useful if the dps gap wasn’t so frikkin large.

Any build would have to break off to take a breather, some less than others but yeah the dmg can make up for it.

Power isn’t that broken, crit isn’t meant to be a standalone stat like Power, and they just scale extremely well together, Conditions don’t as much, just from some procs but it also is very good standalone and you get get tankier builds with condition dmg.

Most bosses don’t one shot, I’m not sure where people get these ideas from.

The reason that defensive stats are just a crutch in this game is because of how important the concept of damage mitigation or evasion is. Or rather, how powerful it is. There are so many ways to simply avoid damage in this game, that you don’t have to build to reduce damage from enemies.

Condition damage should probably be made better though. That way we can at least have berserker builds, and rampager builds.

But its not just PvE. In many cases a squishy can avoid damage as well as (or better) than a tank can soak it.

On my guardian i have decided to go all out on toughness, healing power and power and to be honest… it doesnt work, AT ALL! I have more than 2000 toughness without using foods or any sort of buffs and i dont feel any tougher than the ele in my group that has less than 1000. I dont really notice that i have increased my healingpower in any way so that stat is most likely useless in any given form it comes. What i wanted to do with my guardian was to actually be a guardian but the direction this game is taking i highly doubt that is ever going to happen.

I love to play tanky/healing classes in game because it allows me to help others instead of being the attention kitten with the massive crits flying around the place, but when it comes to GW2 i feel that as a guardian wanting to guardian anything is like a very bad and embaresing 60’s english failed comedy.

Isha.4278:

On my guardian i have decided to go all out on toughness, healing power and power and to be honest… it doesnt work, AT ALL! I have more than 2000 toughness without using foods or any sort of buffs and i dont feel any tougher than the ele in my group that has less than 1000. I dont really notice that i have increased my healingpower in any way so that stat is most likely useless in any given form it comes. What i wanted to do with my guardian was to actually be a guardian but the direction this game is taking i highly doubt that is ever going to happen.

I love to play tanky/healing classes in game because it allows me to help others instead of being the attention kitten with the massive crits flying around the place, but when it comes to GW2 i feel that as a guardian wanting to guardian anything is like a very bad and embaresing 60’s english failed comedy.

That is because there is no such thing as traditional tanks or healers in this game. The way you “guard” people in this game is through the use of protection, aegis, reflect walls, removing conditions, so on and so forth. All of those types of things can be done in whatever gear you are wearing so you might as well just go full on damage provided you know the encounter well enough and know what to actively mitigate and what you can soak. The trinity of damage/support/control, exists in each class and each person playing will be doing all three of those things at any given time. It is not separated to where each person has a defined role like person A is damage, person B is control, person C is support, but rather person A is d/s/c, person B is d/s/c, person C is d/s/c.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Isha.4278:

On my guardian i have decided to go all out on toughness, healing power and power and to be honest… it doesnt work, AT ALL! I have more than 2000 toughness without using foods or any sort of buffs and i dont feel any tougher than the ele in my group that has less than 1000. I dont really notice that i have increased my healingpower in any way so that stat is most likely useless in any given form it comes. What i wanted to do with my guardian was to actually be a guardian but the direction this game is taking i highly doubt that is ever going to happen.

I love to play tanky/healing classes in game because it allows me to help others instead of being the attention kitten with the massive crits flying around the place, but when it comes to GW2 i feel that as a guardian wanting to guardian anything is like a very bad and embaresing 60’s english failed comedy.

That is because there is no such thing as traditional tanks or healers in this game. The way you “guard” people in this game is through the use of protection, aegis, reflect walls, removing conditions, so on and so forth. All of those types of things can be done in whatever gear you are wearing so you might as well just go full on damage provided you know the encounter well enough and know what to actively mitigate and what you can soak. The trinity of damage/support/control, exists in each class and each person playing will be doing all three of those things at any given time. It is not separated to where each person has a defined role like person A is damage, person B is control, person C is support, but rather person A is d/s/c, person B is d/s/c, person C is d/s/c.

Fair enough. Then why do all these stat combos even exist if they’re not viable? If we’re not meant to soak damage and just avoid it, why have toughness? If we’re not meant to be able to effectively heal allies, why have healing power?

They exist for PvP and WvW.

Draehl.2681:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Isha.4278:

On my guardian i have decided to go all out on toughness, healing power and power and to be honest… it doesnt work, AT ALL! I have more than 2000 toughness without using foods or any sort of buffs and i dont feel any tougher than the ele in my group that has less than 1000. I dont really notice that i have increased my healingpower in any way so that stat is most likely useless in any given form it comes. What i wanted to do with my guardian was to actually be a guardian but the direction this game is taking i highly doubt that is ever going to happen.

I love to play tanky/healing classes in game because it allows me to help others instead of being the attention kitten with the massive crits flying around the place, but when it comes to GW2 i feel that as a guardian wanting to guardian anything is like a very bad and embaresing 60’s english failed comedy.

That is because there is no such thing as traditional tanks or healers in this game. The way you “guard” people in this game is through the use of protection, aegis, reflect walls, removing conditions, so on and so forth. All of those types of things can be done in whatever gear you are wearing so you might as well just go full on damage provided you know the encounter well enough and know what to actively mitigate and what you can soak. The trinity of damage/support/control, exists in each class and each person playing will be doing all three of those things at any given time. It is not separated to where each person has a defined role like person A is damage, person B is control, person C is support, but rather person A is d/s/c, person B is d/s/c, person C is d/s/c.

Fair enough. Then why do all these stat combos even exist if they’re not viable? If we’re not meant to soak damage and just avoid it, why have toughness? If we’re not meant to be able to effectively heal allies, why have healing power?

As Colesy stated pvp, wvw. But also in pve they are useful for people who don’t yet know an encounter, or people with poor connections/computers etc etc. I know a lot of people throw that word “viable” around, but often it is used like it is synonymous for “optimal” which is a complete separate meaning. What I mean is, viable is a subjective term, because it will vary from one person to the next. You can complete any content in the game (with a few exceptions) with whatever gear you want to use so if your goal is simply to complete dungeons then any gear is “viable”. In terms of efficiency, there really is no comparison to using zerker gear once you know an encounter well enough though.

This is just my opinion, but I personally feel like what many people miss is that when Anet was speaking about this game before it was released, they touted explorable mode as basically being the equivalent of a raid in terms of needing to be organized to complete the content. What has happened though is that unorganized groups try do the content and all build for their own personal survivability as opposed to building around being a member of a organized group. I am sure I will get flamed for saying this but if I do actually pug something I very rarely run full glass cannon unless I can be sure that the people I am running with are all on the same page in terms of playstyle and build interactions. If I have one more solitary person standing at max range while the rest of the group is up in melee range tell me “Look I told you bearbow ranger too strong I am the last one left alive” I might possibly snap heh. That last part was a bit of comedy, but there is a lot of truth of why you see so much bitterness over things like that.

colesy.8490:

They exist for PvP and WvW.

And in these environments glass cannon builds can still avoid damage incredibly well with invulns/stealth/etc. Who do you have more difficulty killing? A tank geared Warrior/Necro or glass cannon Thief/Ele? Considering the damage output of the glass cannon builds the survivability is remarkably similar. In many cases all out avoidance of damage is far superior than soaking damage. Either evasion is too strong or soaking is too weak.

Draehl.2681:

colesy.8490:

They exist for PvP and WvW.

And in these environments glass cannon builds can still avoid damage incredibly well with invulns/stealth/etc. Who do you have more difficulty killing? A tank geared Warrior/Necro or glass cannon Thief/Ele? Considering the damage output of the glass cannon builds the survivability is remarkably similar. In many cases all out avoidance of damage is far superior than soaking damage. Either evasion is too strong or soaking is too weak.

The value of statistical mitigation versus active avoidance goes up with the amount of targets you are facing. In a 1v1 or 1v2 active avoidance will always trump stat mitigation, but start adding on larger numbers of opponents and value of statistical mitigation will increase since you can not possibly avoid all of the incoming damage.

Draehl.2681:

colesy.8490:

They exist for PvP and WvW.

And in these environments glass cannon builds can still avoid damage incredibly well with invulns/stealth/etc. Who do you have more difficulty killing? A tank geared Warrior/Necro or glass cannon Thief/Ele? Considering the damage output of the glass cannon builds the survivability is remarkably similar. In many cases all out avoidance of damage is far superior than soaking damage. Either evasion is too strong or soaking is too weak.

Glass elementalists are free kills. Glass thieves can’t do group fights because all the aoe will kill them before they do anything (stealth doesn’t make you immune to cleaves and aoe.). Glass thieves are strong 1vs1 but completely useless where it really matters in WvWvW. It’s okay in SPVP I guess though.

But don’t even enter group fights in wvwvw on your glass thief you’re just a rally bot. I’m not even talking about zerg, even a 10vs10 fight is enough to turn you into an instant rally bot. Who do you think people will try to hit first if they spot you among a group anyway.

Glass elementalists aren’t even all that strong in 1vs1 though. They are very easy to destroy and all their abilities to escape have been nerfed to oblivion.

For the new Tequatal the absolute best armor is P/T/V. If you are defending turrets a middle of the road armor is good like P/T/P. Hell even condition duration builds are ok when you defend the lazer to spam weakness, cripples, and imm. and stun of the mobs.

They should start replacing one hit kills with DOT damage.

The amount of one hit skills could be probably counted on fingers of both hands and most of those one hits are specific boss mechanics like Crusher with Hunter in Arah. I doubt you played high enough fractals to claim every boss can instagib you with 2000 toughness.

And I’m certain 2000 toughness guardian is not as squishy as elementalist with just 1000.

Knote.2904:

Power isn’t that broken, crit isn’t meant to be a standalone stat like Power, and they just scale extremely well together, Conditions don’t as much, just from some procs but it also is very good standalone and you get get tankier builds with condition dmg.

You don’t call power broken when it’s more effective than 2 other stats combined? Fair enough. That still leaves me with the issue that whenever I pick a piece of gear that doesn’t have power as a major stat, my damage goes down the drain, even when replaced with something that has other offensive stats too (say, Soldier vs. Knight).

haviz.1340:

And I’m certain 2000 toughness guardian is not as squishy as elementalist with just 1000.

The thing is that toughness is actually rather weak per hit. It’s intended as a long term stat, vitality is designed for spikes. 10 points of toughness give about 0.5% damage reduction (varies with the actual armor level) per hit. That’s 100 damage for every 20,000 damage you get. So it’s not gonna help you survive spikes. The 1000/2000 would suggest a 50% damage reduction, but of course the base armor values would have to be added and in practice this would be more in the range of 25% reduction. But with both professions having 10,000 health, this means a 20,000 damage hit will still down both.

If Isha were to invest some of that toughness into vitality, he would notice a much bigger increase in his survivability against single hits.

Both power and condition damage scale linearly. Critical damage and damage modifiers are what makes the difference.

What’s the damage difference between pvt and ppc? What about the tankiness?

I’m just wondering because if we assume that ppc gains more damage than pvt gains tankiness then wouldn’t ppc groups wipe pvt groups?
Basically, if you have players with same gear (except one is ppc and other pvt) auto-attacking each other. Which one would win?

CHIPS.6018:

They should start replacing one hit kills with DOT damage.

And how would that help the “tanks”, as condition damage ignores Toughness?

Tanks are roles ivented by players.
I can only talk about my warrior i played a sniping zerk build, just to hit close ~17k on guardians with full boons, there were some times i could instadown a few guardians that use health lower than 16k (based on killshot tip damage on console ), from this build while playing on my guardian vit/toughness tank build, max damage i took with all boons was like 19k-20k, there are no tanks, some particuliar builds can shred them in s 3 seconds.

Tom Gore.4035:

CHIPS.6018:

They should start replacing one hit kills with DOT damage.

And how would that help the “tanks”, as condition damage ignores Toughness?

DOT != condition damage. More like increasing the frequency of mob attacks, but decreasing the damage each of those attacks will do. Now this will make ANet’s “priced” dodge mechanics less valuable, but watch me not care one bit.

One personal example from trying to defend the turrets down in the Fen. I Noticed a new wave of risen coming in, so i intercepted them to try and buy us some time. Within a second or two of coming within range of the first risen my health was 3/4 gone. I have no idea what attack it was that hit me, and i was scrambling to get back out of there while trying to recover.

With lower pr hit damage, but higher frequency, i would see the health globe steadily decrease rather than one moment be full and the next bordering on empty.

haviz.1340:

Both power and condition damage scale linearly. Critical damage and damage modifiers are what makes the difference.

Yep, this bears repeating, because it is the actual issue, not that “power is too good!” as people say.

Power is increased in effectiveness by Precision and Critical Damage particularly, and it isn’t mitigated by anything but enemy Toughness, which seems to increase linearly even though power is effectively no longer linear because of the multiplicative effects described.

Condition Damage is not only destroyed by the extremely low caps on number of conditions on a mob (I think they really need to look HARD at that, especially for world bosses – for normal mobs and veterans, sure, 25 is fine – but for others? Not really), but by the fact that the only potential multiplicative effect – Condition Duration is also getting screwed by the cap and/or by the fact the monster may actually die before the extra duration has meaning.

Wethospu.6437:

What’s the damage difference between pvt and ppc? What about the tankiness?

I’m just wondering because if we assume that ppc gains more damage than pvt gains tankiness then wouldn’t ppc groups wipe pvt groups?
Basically, if you have players with same gear (except one is ppc and other pvt) auto-attacking each other. Which one would win?

apparently PVT would, as it can soak more damage while canceling out the power part of PPC. This then leaves little for critical damage to increase whenever precision produces a critical hit.

I have previously made the suggestion that Dungeons and Fractals should be balanced around a total group Healing Power amount.

If we say that amount should be 500, then your 5 man group can bring 100 each, one person with 500, or any combination between the two. Obviously, bringing Vitality and Toughness will decrease the amount of Healing Power needed overall because you will be taking less damage.

Just because the trinity is no present doesn’t mean that healing and tanking should not be present, we just have to get more creative with how we implement the facets that the roles provided without making the roles mandatory.

The problem is this.

If defensive gear – toughness based gear would be made stronger – players would no longer get 1 hit from bosses.
Congratulations : you have just created a tank.

If healing gear was stronger – players could effectively keep said tank alive permanently.
Congratulations: you have just created a healer.

Ergo – bringing back the trinity.

The game is fine as it is. You’re good with dodges and fast? Go full zerker.
You’re slower and not just as great? Add some toughness and vitality in until you feel comfortable and don’t hug the floor 24/7.

The whole idea behind zerker is that it brings full dps and that the player has to compensate for the lack of defense through his skill and speed of reflex and positioning.

mtpelion.4562:

I have previously made the suggestion that Dungeons and Fractals should be balanced around a total group Healing Power amount.

If we say that amount should be 500, then your 5 man group can bring 100 each, one person with 500, or any combination between the two. Obviously, bringing Vitality and Toughness will decrease the amount of Healing Power needed overall because you will be taking less damage.

Just because the trinity is no present doesn’t mean that healing and tanking should not be present, we just have to get more creative with how we implement the facets that the roles provided without making the roles mandatory.

That is probably one of the worst suggestions I have ever seen.

And good riddance to healers and tanks, all it does is promote lazy play. GW2 promotes active defence, not relying on your position in the trinity to basically play the game for you.

colesy.8490:

That is probably one of the worst suggestions I have ever seen.

And good riddance to healers and tanks, all it does is promote lazy play. GW2 promotes active defence, not relying on your position in the trinity to basically play the game for you.

No, the worst suggestion you have ever seen made it into the game in the form of multiple gear sets, none of which are useful. If you aren’t wearing full zerker gear in dungeons and fractals then you are simply not playing the game right, and having only one right way to play when they could have made abundant options instead is just poor design.

As it is right now, even the laziest players can zerk any content in the game because dodging is free invulnerability on a very low CD. If they wanted this to be an action game they would remove gear options. If they wanted this to be an RPG they would make the gear options mean something. Since they aren’t doing either, it suggests that they don’t know what they are doing.

mtpelion.4562:

Since they aren’t doing either, it suggests that they don’t know what they are doing.

Or that they want a middle-ground between action-game and RPG. Like, y’know, Action RPGs. By your logic, if we extend it, actual skill shouldn’t matter at all in the “ideal” RPG, only the gear that you are wearing.

Which is somewhat hilarious, because the idea that RPGs are solely “about gear” is basically revisionist nonsense. Perhaps by “RPG” you mean “WoW-clone”? I’ve been playing RPGs off and on the computer since the eighties, mate, and I can tell you that them being “about gear” is a very recent development, and a kind of kitten one.

Even in games back in the 1980s, like 1987’s superb Dungeon Master, there was active dodging in real time (moving your group out of the way of a fireball, for example).

So yeah, no that’s not how it works.

Non-zerker/assassin stat combinations are for WvW/PvP.

They know what they are doing, but they are fixated on SPVP. And there a PTV tank can outlive a zerker in a straight up attrition fight.

But that kind of balance do not exist in PVE, because the mobs have much higher stats. They produce attacks that spike enough to drop even a PTVer, and can outlast a PTVer multiple times on attrition.

Reduce mob health, make mobs use heals and similar, and increase their attack frequency while dropping their pr hit damage output (effectively keeping the DPS the same while reducing its spikiness). Yes, it will make dodge less valuable. But at the same time it will make interrupts, heals and defensive stats more valuable. All without changing the character side and thus disrupting PVP.

Stacking 25 bleeds on a dungeon baddie with my full condition ele = total garbage. Imo. Making a necro atm and kitten condition damage. Im going full zerk any condition damage I happen put on is just an incidental bonus.

colesy.8490:

Non-zerker/assassin stat combinations are for WvW/PvP.

Because of failed content design.

Why would any dev design that to be the case lmao.

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

Non-zerker/assassin stat combinations are for WvW/PvP.

Because of failed content design.

Why would any dev design that to be the case lmao.

They wouldn’t, but some people don’t care about design, and just want to sneer at anyone who doesn’t check the right boxes – in this case being full zerker/assassin for PvE content.

Why some of you are you keep claiming bosses 1 hit you with tanky gear? List all those nasty bosses for me please.

haviz.1340:

Both power and condition damage scale linearly. Critical damage and damage modifiers are what makes the difference.

Yeah it seems to me they should apply the damage modifiers to condition damage as well (excluding crit damage of course since condi damage doesn’t crit) . If I had to guess the reason it doesn’t is to avoid “double dipping” since many skills do both power and condition damage. If they did ever add it that way classes like engineer or necro would be ridiculously strong in rampager gear.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

haviz.1340:

Both power and condition damage scale linearly. Critical damage and damage modifiers are what makes the difference.

Yeah it seems to me they should apply the damage modifiers to condition damage as well. If I had to guess the reason it doesn’t is to avoid “double dipping” since many skills do both power and condition damage. If they did ever add it that way classes like engineer or necro would be ridiculously strong in rampager gear.

So not necessary and would be ridiculous, secondly it wouldn’t make a difference in PvE because of condition caps.

Knote.2904:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

haviz.1340:

Both power and condition damage scale linearly. Critical damage and damage modifiers are what makes the difference.

Yeah it seems to me they should apply the damage modifiers to condition damage as well. If I had to guess the reason it doesn’t is to avoid “double dipping” since many skills do both power and condition damage. If they did ever add it that way classes like engineer or necro would be ridiculously strong in rampager gear.

So not necessary and would be ridiculous, secondly it wouldn’t make a difference in PvE because of condition caps.

I agree with you, conditions need a rework for pve. Problem is there is no solution to it without a complete redesign of how they function. Currently damage calcs are handled server side, this is why there is a cap on conditions. It would take far too much processing and bandwidth to have to calculate 100 people doing 25 stacks of bleeds that would be 2500 calculations per second that needs to have information sent back and forth between client and server and that is just for bleeds. To be honest I am not sure why they don’t allow damage calcs to be done on client side, other than perhaps it’s a security thought in that people can’t hack how much damage they do or possibly to lower the processor requirements for the individual users . Of course the numbers I used are just for demonstration purposes to make the math easy and I am not trying to suggest that there would ever be 100 people maintaining a full 25 stacks individually.

CHIPS.6018:

They should start replacing one hit kills with DOT damage.

This isn’t a bad idea actually. Replace one hit K.O. attacks with one hit attacks that put a DoT on you that eventually will kill you in a couple seconds if you don’t do something about it. This would immediately have the effect of making both Healing Power and Vitality useful for mitigating or creating the ability to “eat” these one hit K.O. attacks, aswell as giving support healers a more relevant role.

Actually, this is sorta how Agony already works. The thing is, as it’s % damage based, extra Vitality doesn’t help you against Agony. Healing Power does, however, and if you stack enough of it sometimes you can survive an Agony hit by activating your self-heal part way through the DoT damage, even without the AR amount that should normally be required to survive such an agony hit.

So assuming the above was implimented, however, what would you do to make Toughness relevant?

haviz.1340:

Why some of you are you keep claiming bosses 1 hit you with tanky gear? List all those nasty bosses for me please.

Okay, to be fair, when he’s fully decked out in his tanky gear, on-times my Guardian can survive attacks that are supposed to be one-hit K.O.’s while he is under Protection. But the protection is crucial to this, which tells you that one boon is way more important than your entire gear set combined, which to be fair shows something is wrong with the game design.

And even if you survive you are like 3/4 the way towards being downed, meaning that if the mob as much as fart again in your direction…

KotCR.6024:

Okay, to be fair, when he’s fully decked out in his tanky gear, on-times my Guardian can survive attacks that are supposed to be one-hit K.O.’s while he is under Protection. But the protection is crucial to this, which tells you that one boon is way more important than your entire gear set combined, which to be fair shows something is wrong with the game design.

Really? Because my zerker ele can get hit at least once by most of the bosses. Instagibs starts at 60-70 fractals.

I have several classes using various different build styles such as a guardian using full zerkers, a warrior using clerics, engi with celestial, ranger with zerkers.

I can honestly say that toughness and healing power are actually useful. With the healing power below 100 the ability to recover from 1 mistake was greatly reduced since the healing skill failed to heal 50% of the damage. Full zerker gear does not have the capabilities to prevent mistakes or take damage.

Bosses do not 1 shot unless your using full zerker gear (expect Teq).

From various dungeon runs where the zerkers were the first down and my cleric warrior had to spend half the fights rezzing them, I would say they all have their place.

colesy.8490:

They exist for PvP and WvW.

Consider toughness as resilience, yeah.