Guild Wars 2

brainlessant.3641:

Atlas.9704:

brainlessant.3641:

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

That would be akin to asking the Universe to allow you a chance to relive the 5th grade because you missed a friend’s party.

There will be other events, other stories, and you can participate in them now that you are in this game.

Of course I always welcome new Fractals as Hoyvin spoke earlier.

I dont really know exactly what Fractals is but Im assuming its like WoW’s (Please dont hurt me!!!) Caverns of Times where you replay the past events.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists
Not that far off I guess, I’ve never played WoW. Fractals is just a dungeon which has different moments in time to play out. This gives the ability for ANet to put dang well whatever they want as a Dungeon.

Still, Im quite a completionist.
The fact that I cant get 100% on certain parts of the game kinda disappoints me…
It also doesnt help that I have gotten only 1 achievement from F&F (Kindling the bonfire achievement)

I can see myself in the future:
FFFFFFFF-
99% completion rate….only thing left is F&F living story
IT BURNSSSS AHHHHHHHH

Well maybe one day the concept of Living Story will give you that chance. shrugs
I for one didn’t finish Lost Shore, Wintersday, or Halloween.
Also there’s achievements we can’t even complete like bar brawl at the moment.

To be honest I’d much rather see old stuff be worked upon and get fixed rather than this new temporary content getting pushed out each month. It seems that every time something is released for a limited time it’s trying to force people to play within the constraints of its limited availability and there’s always some gem store grab that goes along with it.

Meanwhile old bugs are pushed to the back collecting dust and there’s content that still needs polish. Each time I hear “It’s a separate team working on it” I want to punch the person in the face because there doesn’t seem to be another team or all resources go into forcing new content. The game has been out for 8 months, there’s no way you can tell me now that it’s being worked upon at any reasonable pace.

I didn’t mind it when there were odd seasonal events like Halloween or Christmas like in Guild Wars 1, but this seems to have something else in mind rather than appealing to players.

I’m hoping to see an expansion soon sometime in the next year to bring the game back alive. There needs to be more permanent content and new zones that have as much to provide as the current game zones do if not more (ie. not Southsun Cove). A couple new classes and new zones to start out from might be what the expansion needs.

brainlessant.3641:

I just started 2 days ago, and I didnt know that F&F was a temporarily event.
I was just starting out, and didnt know what was going on.
So i played by my own pace, ignoring F&F event thinking that “Meh, I’ll do that when i get the hang of GW2”

I didnt care that F&F ended as i didnt know anything about it.

However, upon reading the content in F&F from the wiki. I got to say that I’m quite disappointed that I did not get to experience the F&F.

All i had from F&F was the achievement from the bonfire…Lol

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

No, they are pretty dead set on screwing anyone who buys the game after release, that’s the stance I think they will stay with. It sucks, but I’m ready to write off the first Living Story as a beta/failed experiment and move on myself.

Hoyvin.3241:

AlietteFaye.7316:

So by your own idea, they should remove just about every zone from Guild Wars 2. Because there is just about nobody in them. There’s people at the boss events for their daily chests, and that’s just about it. Nobody uses these zones anymore, so we should take them out, too, right? Oh, and get those dumb repeating “dynamic events” out of the game. How is it dynamic when I’ve seen and done the same thing six times in the past two hours? Oh, and while we’re at it, remove those dungeons in the game. All of them. It doesn’t make sense that I’ve killed Ghost Eater eighty times, or that I destroyed the Nightmare tree again and again.

Nonsense. Of course not. There obviously has to be some permanent content otherwise new players and alts have nowhere to level. Everything can’t be 100% dynamic, that’s impossible. At least at this point. There are eight permanent dungeons, and I’m sure there will be more. There are dynamic events that give the illusion of permanent changes.

AlietteFaye.7316:

It wasn’t supposed to blow me away? Don’t market it out as an expansion’s worth of content. And you still have yet to explain what the concept is behind the living story. It’s no different than their one-time events exception of the fact that it stayed in for more time, which is what people suggested for their one-time events in the first place.

Show me where Flame & Frost itself was touted as an expansions worth of content.

What’s to explain behind the concept of living story? Isn’t it obvious? It’s what were discussing in this thread. Whether these sort of world changing events with temporary content can work. I think they can, and obviously Arenanet thinks so, as well. They’re obviously trying to break the mold with GW2. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Obviously, you don’t like it. Some of us do.

“These two months combined are basically an expansion’s worth of content for free.”
Source: http://gamingbolt.com/guild-wars-2-interview-we-talk-to-areanet-about-how-the-mmorpg-has-been-doing-post-launch#1JvUBwFFkaZE8FgG.99
They later came on the forums to clarify that they had to push some things back so it would be combined with March and if I remember correctly April.

Trying to break the mold is fine, I don’t care about that. But they’ve literally added in content that tons of people spend a couple of hours doing and then they have to wait a month (now getting down to two weeks) to come back and see something new. Rather than adding in something that players can play for a lot more time, work towards a goal and actually feel like they’re getting a reward for their effort. Every single update has been about adding in something to bandage the lack of content that there is to do, rather than adding in a good permanent fix.

I don’t mind that they have temporary content. I mind that all they have is temporary content. Yes, Colin said that some of the stuff will be permanent. But that could literally be any aspect. Southsun Cove was permanent, and it failed miserably to be anything worthwhile. Especially after they killed off the guaranteed rich Ori node. They have to add permanent things that people will want to do. Fractals was great, but it’s time for the next “Fractals” to be added. (Not literally, just something as lasting and fun.)

AlietteFaye.7316:

“These two months combined are basically an expansion’s worth of content for free.”

Well, I certainly wouldn’t call it an expansion’s worth of content, but to be fair, that was posted in December and he doesn’t specifically say “Flame and Frost is intended to be one expansion’s worth of content.” Schedules change. I would expect that what he was talking about is the Southsun stuff. In any case, you need to read this which was from this month rather than last year:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-explanation-for-temporary-content/first#post1949860 Robert Hrouda said there will be permanent content from the Southsun cove story.

Aeonblade.8709:

brainlessant.3641:

I just started 2 days ago, and I didnt know that F&F was a temporarily event.
I was just starting out, and didnt know what was going on.
So i played by my own pace, ignoring F&F event thinking that “Meh, I’ll do that when i get the hang of GW2”

I didnt care that F&F ended as i didnt know anything about it.

However, upon reading the content in F&F from the wiki. I got to say that I’m quite disappointed that I did not get to experience the F&F.

All i had from F&F was the achievement from the bonfire…Lol

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

No, they are pretty dead set on screwing anyone who buys the game after release, that’s the stance I think they will stay with. It sucks, but I’m ready to write off the first Living Story as a beta/failed experiment and move on myself.

Yeah, I’m sure that’s the first topic on their meeting agendas. How can we screw our customers over today. :rolleyes:

Hoyvin.3241:

AlietteFaye.7316:

“These two months combined are basically an expansion’s worth of content for free.”

Well, I certainly wouldn’t call it an expansion’s worth of content, but to be fair, that was posted in December and he doesn’t specifically say “Flame and Frost is intended to be one expansion’s worth of content.” Schedules change. I would expect that what he was talking about is the Southsun stuff. In any case, you need to read this which was from this month rather than last year:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-explanation-for-temporary-content/first#post1949860 Robert Hrouda said there will be permanent content from the Southsun cove story.

Yes, they said that some of the stuff will be permanent. But that could literally be any aspect. Southsun Cove was permanent, and it failed miserably to be anything worthwhile. Especially after they killed off the guaranteed rich Ori node. They have to add permanent things that people will want to do. Fractals was great, but it’s time for the next “Fractals” to be added. (Not literally, just something as lasting and fun.)

Expansion worth of content? Man was I so excited hearing those words months ago. Then I actually did Flame and Frost. Gee, the living story sure is great. Especially since there’s NOTHING ELSE added to the game.

Many people quote Colin’s original statement regarding ‘an expansion’s worth of content’, as he said they would, but few quote his expanded explanation about what he meant:

’I’ll throw out feature wise, many of the things we’ll be doing feature wise across the first half of 2013 are typically the type of features you’d likely only see in a paid expansion traditionally. We’re really excited about the opportunity to be able to do that for Guild Wars 2, and think there is something really compelling in that experience, which is really the only message we wanted folks to take from all of this. March will of course continue this tradition of free releases, major features, and of course the growth of living story as we expand its role in Gw2.

All of that being said, this is exactly why we try and avoid talking about stuff until it’s ready, if we say something early and it ends up not ending up exactly what people expect, it doesn’t work out for anyone. Saying something like “expansions worth of content” means different things to everyone, and is nearly an impossible goal to meet expectation wise since everything expects something different, which is a big part of why marketing stepped away from that plan very quickly after asking us to use it when speaking to the press/fans.

I imagine it’ll still get quoted until the end of time, but hope that helps explain where it came from, and what to expect. Just to re-iterate the post I made back in January:

“To set expectations accordingly, the January release will be a relatively small release that sets the table for the stories and features we plan to roll out with the Feb/March releases and beyond. Also, there will be no new race, profession, or new region with these larger Feb/March releases. One of our major goals with these releases is making our existing world as strong as possible, ensuring there are reasons to go to all the locations in the world we’ve already built, and strengthening the core game we’ve provided. In saying this will be an expansions worth of stuff in these releases, we’re talking about the number of new features that will be rolled out across PvE, WvW, and PvP in early 2013, which usually you’d only find in an expansion for a traditional MMORPG.” ’

Would only be fair and accurate to do so. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/ColinJohanson-2394/showposts

Ive been commenting on this for the longest time. The game has too much temporary content and not enough permanent content. The game has been out for nearly 10 months!! And I think we can all agree there is plenty more temp content than permanent. Permanent and repeatable that is. This is why 10 months later it feels like there is still little to do sometimes. Its because there is very little permanent content accumulation. There needs to be a better balance of temp and permanent.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Ive been commenting on this for the longest time. The game has too much temporary content and not enough permanent content. The game has been out for nearly 10 months!! And I think we can all agree there is plenty more temp content than permanent. Permanent and repeatable that is. This is why 10 months later it feels like there is still little to do sometimes. Its because there is very little permanent content accumulation. There needs to be a better balance of temp and permanent.

10 months is nothing in the world of MMOs. (plus this game is only 9 months old not 10)

It really gets me that people expect the game to have massive releases this soon.

The actual model that was never able to be maintained by any MMO to this day is:

Day 1 – release game

month 3 – have most bugs worked out

month 6 – Begin work on additional content (note I did not say add new content)

year 2 (month 24) – release new content.

This was the original model that was used by EverQuest for example. Even they could not satisfy the ravenous nature of the player base.

Now compare this broken model to how Anet has done this game. It threw this model out the window and has made an entirely new one.

To me Anet’s model is a better one that does keep content out there to keep folks coming back. (Me I have never left nor have have even thought of leaving). So what if a lot of it is temporary, at least is something different.

I dunno, I’m really liking the temporary content. We just got done with Flame and Frost and already we’ve got another adventure settup and waiting for us. The problem with alot of MMOs is they never change, they get old and stay old and until the next expansion you’re stuck doing the same things over and over again; there’s no drive to keep playing your maxed out character because her story is over.

But with the Living World we’ve got a continuous story, a story that creates a history for your characters where they can say, “yeah, I remember when this happened” and people will be able to share stories about that thing and those adventures. "I remember, back before we knew what the East Coast Trading Company was really after … " It will create a community out of shared experiences that new players will hear about and maybe be able to reenact in part through an updated Fractal, but won’t have been there to really sink they’re teeth into. In alot of ways it will be a living world.

Yes, it’s still got a few problems that need to be ironed out, but it’s a learning experience and it gets better every time. I’d rather see these Living Story updates every month or so than have to wait an entire year for the next expansion to give me new content.

Is there an MMO out there with horizontal progression and a lot of persistent content? Can someone give a few examples? Notice I said horizontal progression. WOW has vertical progression, sure the raids still exist but there’s not much to do as a guild if you’re following progression beyond raiding the top tier raid.

Aeonblade.8709:

brainlessant.3641:

I just started 2 days ago, and I didnt know that F&F was a temporarily event.
I was just starting out, and didnt know what was going on.
So i played by my own pace, ignoring F&F event thinking that “Meh, I’ll do that when i get the hang of GW2”

I didnt care that F&F ended as i didnt know anything about it.

However, upon reading the content in F&F from the wiki. I got to say that I’m quite disappointed that I did not get to experience the F&F.

All i had from F&F was the achievement from the bonfire…Lol

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

No, they are pretty dead set on screwing anyone who buys the game after release, that’s the stance I think they will stay with. It sucks, but I’m ready to write off the first Living Story as a beta/failed experiment and move on myself.

Yep, screwing everyone with new content every month. How DARE they! Absurd! Put out new content and make it temporary.

It’ll bother completionists (like me) true. But most people will just be happy to have stuff to do.

Vayne.8563:

It’ll bother completionists (like me) true. But most people will just be happy to have stuff to do.

I would think that MMOs in general bother completionists, because by definition the game is never able to be “finished” as long as it’s active.

I mean, in Rift there are items you can collect called artifacts. They are a nice little distraction from killing stuff, and popular with collectors. But there are a few thousand of them, some quite rare and while you can buy/sell most of them completing every collection would take forever… and if you finally do collect them ALL, there will be hundreds more introduced along with new content.

If I were compelled to collect them all, I don’t think I could handle that.

declan.3968:

Is there an MMO out there with horizontal progression and a lot of persistent content? Can someone give a few examples? Notice I said horizontal progression. WOW has vertical progression, sure the raids still exist but there’s not much to do as a guild if you’re following progression beyond raiding the top tier raid.

The game does not exist yet….yet…

declan.3968:

Is there an MMO out there with horizontal progression and a lot of persistent content? Can someone give a few examples? Notice I said horizontal progression. WOW has vertical progression, sure the raids still exist but there’s not much to do as a guild if you’re following progression beyond raiding the top tier raid.

Guild Wars 1. The game that this game is named after and is a sequel to. Weird, huh?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Many people quote Colin’s original statement regarding ‘an expansion’s worth of content’, as he said they would, but few quote his expanded explanation about what he meant:

’I’ll throw out feature wise, many of the things we’ll be doing feature wise across the first half of 2013 are typically the type of features you’d likely only see in a paid expansion traditionally. We’re really excited about the opportunity to be able to do that for Guild Wars 2, and think there is something really compelling in that experience, which is really the only message we wanted folks to take from all of this. March will of course continue this tradition of free releases, major features, and of course the growth of living story as we expand its role in Gw2.

All of that being said, this is exactly why we try and avoid talking about stuff until it’s ready, if we say something early and it ends up not ending up exactly what people expect, it doesn’t work out for anyone. Saying something like “expansions worth of content” means different things to everyone, and is nearly an impossible goal to meet expectation wise since everything expects something different, which is a big part of why marketing stepped away from that plan very quickly after asking us to use it when speaking to the press/fans.

I imagine it’ll still get quoted until the end of time, but hope that helps explain where it came from, and what to expect. Just to re-iterate the post I made back in January:

“To set expectations accordingly, the January release will be a relatively small release that sets the table for the stories and features we plan to roll out with the Feb/March releases and beyond. Also, there will be no new race, profession, or new region with these larger Feb/March releases. One of our major goals with these releases is making our existing world as strong as possible, ensuring there are reasons to go to all the locations in the world we’ve already built, and strengthening the core game we’ve provided. In saying this will be an expansions worth of stuff in these releases, we’re talking about the number of new features that will be rolled out across PvE, WvW, and PvP in early 2013, which usually you’d only find in an expansion for a traditional MMORPG.” ’

Would only be fair and accurate to do so. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/ColinJohanson-2394/showposts

Sure, give it the full quote. Features aren’t content, though. This quote you’re referring to is when they realized that they actually weren’t providing anywhere near that much content, and they had to step back and try to fix the mistake of saying so.

AlietteFaye.7316:

declan.3968:

Is there an MMO out there with horizontal progression and a lot of persistent content? Can someone give a few examples? Notice I said horizontal progression. WOW has vertical progression, sure the raids still exist but there’s not much to do as a guild if you’re following progression beyond raiding the top tier raid.

Guild Wars 1. The game that this game is named after and is a sequel to. Weird, huh?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Many people quote Colin’s original statement regarding ‘an expansion’s worth of content’, as he said they would, but few quote his expanded explanation about what he meant:

’I’ll throw out feature wise, many of the things we’ll be doing feature wise across the first half of 2013 are typically the type of features you’d likely only see in a paid expansion traditionally. We’re really excited about the opportunity to be able to do that for Guild Wars 2, and think there is something really compelling in that experience, which is really the only message we wanted folks to take from all of this. March will of course continue this tradition of free releases, major features, and of course the growth of living story as we expand its role in Gw2.

All of that being said, this is exactly why we try and avoid talking about stuff until it’s ready, if we say something early and it ends up not ending up exactly what people expect, it doesn’t work out for anyone. Saying something like “expansions worth of content” means different things to everyone, and is nearly an impossible goal to meet expectation wise since everything expects something different, which is a big part of why marketing stepped away from that plan very quickly after asking us to use it when speaking to the press/fans.

I imagine it’ll still get quoted until the end of time, but hope that helps explain where it came from, and what to expect. Just to re-iterate the post I made back in January:

“To set expectations accordingly, the January release will be a relatively small release that sets the table for the stories and features we plan to roll out with the Feb/March releases and beyond. Also, there will be no new race, profession, or new region with these larger Feb/March releases. One of our major goals with these releases is making our existing world as strong as possible, ensuring there are reasons to go to all the locations in the world we’ve already built, and strengthening the core game we’ve provided. In saying this will be an expansions worth of stuff in these releases, we’re talking about the number of new features that will be rolled out across PvE, WvW, and PvP in early 2013, which usually you’d only find in an expansion for a traditional MMORPG.” ’

Would only be fair and accurate to do so. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/ColinJohanson-2394/showposts

Sure, give it the full quote. Features aren’t content, though. This quote you’re referring to is when they realized that they actually weren’t providing anywhere near that much content, and they had to step back and try to fix the mistake of saying so.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

Darn good game for its time – darned good game – but yeah it was … I’m not even sure whatcha call it, aside from awesome.

But you know, I gotta stick with the people supporting GW2, it fixed everything I wished was better about GW1. I was the audience GW2 was shootin’ for when Anet made this game and I’m hoping to have a good ’nother 5+ years with this, just like I did with the first series.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

Darn good game for its time – darned good game – but yeah it was … I’m not even sure whatcha call it, aside from awesome.

But you know, I gotta stick with the people supporting GW2, it fixed everything I wished was better about GW1. I was the audience GW2 was shootin’ for when Anet made this game and I’m hoping to have a good ’nother 5+ years with this, just like I did with the first series.

Anet called it a CoRPG…a cooperative RPG. A lot of what’s changed in Guild Wars 2 has changed because of the persistent world.

For example, in an instanced world, you could have groups of enemies with healers and rits and minion masters all together in a single group…because you were talking a group in with you. Even solo, you had heroes.

In Guild Wars 2, you could see the problem with respawns and all. I mean nothing respawned in Guild Wars 1, because it was instanced. If nothing spawned in Guild Wars 2, there’d be nothing left for the guy behind you to do.

These are the differences between an MMO and an instanced game. Instanced games are just better at things like stories, and complexity.

When it comes to bug fixing, new content (temporary or otherwise), etc., I feel Anet is doing ok.

I can’t believe people are calling for an expansion already. Yes, GW1 pushed out a new game in less than a year, but they were running a completely different set up at that time.

If you want to compare to the ‘big bad’ supposedly ‘most popular’ MMO (hi again WoW, we just can’t avoid you it seems) their first expansion was 3 years after launch. In their first year, the only content they added was some dungeons and some battlegrounds (in addition to bug fixing, of course). Anet is trying to give us some plot, has given us some holiday stuff right off the bat, and is doing the bug fixing and polishing as well. I’d say they are ahead of the curve. Is everything peachy? No, course not. But at least they are attempting,

Yes, since it’s years later and companies have learned a trick or two, we expect some things to be ‘standard’ at the launch of a game, but kitten people, you can’t expect them to trot out ‘moar stuffs’ just because you think you have to have it. If you can’t find anything to do, take a break. It’s not going anywhere….

The WoW patch timeline for those that simply feel like browsing: http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

When it comes to bug fixing, new content (temporary or otherwise), etc., I feel Anet is doing ok.

I can’t believe people are calling for an expansion already. Yes, GW1 pushed out a new game in less than a year, but they were running a completely different set up at that time.

If you want to compare to the ‘big bad’ supposedly ‘most popular’ MMO (hi again WoW, we just can’t avoid you it seems) their first expansion was 3 years after launch. In their first year, the only content they added was some dungeons and some battlegrounds (in addition to bug fixing, of course). Anet is trying to give us some plot, has given us some holiday stuff right off the bat, and is doing the bug fixing and polishing as well. I’d say they are ahead of the curve. Is everything peachy? No, course not. But at least they are attempting,

Yes, since it’s years later and companies have learned a trick or two, we expect some things to be ‘standard’ at the launch of a game, but kitten people, you can’t expect them to trot out ‘moar stuffs’ just because you think you have to have it. If you can’t find anything to do, take a break. It’s not going anywhere….

The WoW patch timeline for those that simply feel like browsing: http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_

You know, you really can’t look at it as comparing it to when WoW first launched. Times have changed, standards have changed. You need to compare it to modern MMOs.

I’m not calling for an expansion at all. I’d actually be pretty upset if they released an expansion anytime soon, seeing as bugs that have persisted since beta are still around. Before they release any kind of major update like that, they should seriously fix those first. But if they’re going to keep releasing these updates that are supposed to keep people fixated on the game and logging in to play, they should probably make sure it’s content that people want to do, and can do for more than a few hours before waiting for the next update.

AlietteFaye.7316:

I’m not calling for an expansion at all. I’d actually be pretty upset if they released an expansion anytime soon, seeing as bugs that have persisted since beta are still around. Before they release any kind of major update like that, they should seriously fix those first. But if they’re going to keep releasing these updates that are supposed to keep people fixated on the game and logging in to play, they should probably make sure it’s content that people want to do, and can do for more than a few hours before waiting for the next update.

Aliette, you do realize that their target market is players between 30 and 60. These folks for one have the least amount of free time to play and so are the core of the “casual” players. Secondly, these players have the most disposable income.
So play more then a few hours is what I feel is how Anet wants. It keeps this core market coming back for more.
Whoever is in charge of marketing research at Anet sure knows what they are doing.
You have to remember first and foremost this is a business to make money. They don’t get it from monthly subscriptions so they have to get it some where.
Having been a successful business owner I see this “game” for what it is and who it is aimed at.
This model is a success and so don’t expect it to change

I thought its pretty clear. They release temporary content not to keep world alive but players. Make a release, say it’ll be temporary, make it atractive and people are going to log for the content. Remove, release new, repeat. If they’d be permanent you’ll get bored sooner or later. Don’t forgeet content specific limited time gemstore items.
Now after a year, release same ready content plus with new aditions. Enjoy incoming money with less effort. Focus on new box or even newer montyly events. So everytime you log on there will be always something to go after. It’ll always feel lively and dynamic.
I’m sure they are going to leave some content permanently on the way because it should look expanding at the same time.
They left fractals of the mists and imo the results weren’t as they expected. How many people you know going for harder difficulties and having fun? It just become a way of obtaining your ascended pieces, bags or mats. Do the daily move out. I couldn’t find a group in the last week that wants to spend some time and level up. It would be temporary, people could race for the highest levels in the limited time and get better rewards for their success. Now it becomes “meh” and ArenaNet learned something from that experience. Also don’t forget another perma place “Soutsun Cove” and how it bacame a ghost island after the event for it.

I’m not a fan of temporary content simply because if you happen to miss it due to real life obligations, you’re out if luck. I understand what Anet is attempting to achieve with their living world idea, but it is too exclusive an approach. I saw a very simple solution proposed a while ago, that I think would make everyone happy. If there were a storyteller or lore master character of some sort in Lion’s Arch, who you could talk to in order to replay past “temporary” content, they would maintain the dynamic living world they are going for, while allowing new players, as well as those that simply missed the events, to enjoy the content and get the titles. What do you all think?

Everflame.1305:

I’m not a fan of temporary content simply because if you happen to miss it due to real life obligations, you’re out if luck. I understand what Anet is attempting to achieve with their living world idea, but it is too exclusive an approach. I saw a very simple solution proposed a while ago, that I think would make everyone happy. If there were a storyteller or lore master character of some sort in Lion’s Arch, who you could talk to in order to replay past “temporary” content, they would maintain the dynamic living world they are going for, while allowing new players, as well as those that simply missed the events, to enjoy the content and get the titles. What do you all think?

The source of complations are not limited time events imho. It’s the limited time rewards.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Hoyvin.3241:

AlietteFaye.7316:

So by your own idea, they should remove just about every zone from Guild Wars 2. Because there is just about nobody in them. There’s people at the boss events for their daily chests, and that’s just about it. Nobody uses these zones anymore, so we should take them out, too, right? Oh, and get those dumb repeating “dynamic events” out of the game. How is it dynamic when I’ve seen and done the same thing six times in the past two hours? Oh, and while we’re at it, remove those dungeons in the game. All of them. It doesn’t make sense that I’ve killed Ghost Eater eighty times, or that I destroyed the Nightmare tree again and again.

Nonsense. Of course not. There obviously has to be some permanent content otherwise new players and alts have nowhere to level. Everything can’t be 100% dynamic, that’s impossible. At least at this point. There are eight permanent dungeons, and I’m sure there will be more. There are dynamic events that give the illusion of permanent changes.

AlietteFaye.7316:

It wasn’t supposed to blow me away? Don’t market it out as an expansion’s worth of content. And you still have yet to explain what the concept is behind the living story. It’s no different than their one-time events exception of the fact that it stayed in for more time, which is what people suggested for their one-time events in the first place.

Show me where Flame & Frost itself was touted as an expansions worth of content.

What’s to explain behind the concept of living story? Isn’t it obvious? It’s what were discussing in this thread. Whether these sort of world changing events with temporary content can work. I think they can, and obviously Arenanet thinks so, as well. They’re obviously trying to break the mold with GW2. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Obviously, you don’t like it. Some of us do.

“These two months combined are basically an expansion’s worth of content for free.”
Source: http://gamingbolt.com/guild-wars-2-interview-we-talk-to-areanet-about-how-the-mmorpg-has-been-doing-post-launch#1JvUBwFFkaZE8FgG.99
They later came on the forums to clarify that they had to push some things back so it would be combined with March and if I remember correctly April.

Trying to break the mold is fine, I don’t care about that. But they’ve literally added in content that tons of people spend a couple of hours doing and then they have to wait a month (now getting down to two weeks) to come back and see something new. Rather than adding in something that players can play for a lot more time, work towards a goal and actually feel like they’re getting a reward for their effort. Every single update has been about adding in something to bandage the lack of content that there is to do, rather than adding in a good permanent fix.

I don’t mind that they have temporary content. I mind that all they have is temporary content. Yes, Colin said that some of the stuff will be permanent. But that could literally be any aspect. Southsun Cove was permanent, and it failed miserably to be anything worthwhile. Especially after they killed off the guaranteed rich Ori node. They have to add permanent things that people will want to do. Fractals was great, but it’s time for the next “Fractals” to be added. (Not literally, just something as lasting and fun.)

yeah their content got delayed, but in truth it was a fair amount of content. the guild stuff is a lot of content, its basically a whole new guild progression. WvW had culling removed new progression skills/titles added. spvp got custom arenas and spectator mode, temporary wise we had sab and flame and frost. all these things lumped together does rival many other games claims of an expansion, thought not every games claims of an expansion.

That said something’S can be temporary, somethings should come back, some things should change. I think overall though, they should use the temporary stuff to transition into new things more often than not, preferably new good things. For example if southsun cove temporary content transitions into a new dungeon, and a mini game resort, as well as new lore uncovering, that would be an ideal use of temporary content leading to a changing world.

Honestly i dont think flame and frost will be the best execution of living story, it was new, and the teams were learning things/figuring out what they need. Hopefully flame and frost will be the worst execution of living story (no offense to the people who worked hard on it, just saying i hope you guys get better and better at delivering this content and making it feel good)

that said, you guys may need something akin to reruns/back issues/highlights, because even with temp content, a decent amount of people usually want to experience it again in some way/shape/form

phys.7689:

Honestly i dont think flame and frost will be the best execution of living story, it was new, and the teams were learning things/figuring out what they need. Hopefully flame and frost will be the worst execution of living story (no offense to the people who worked hard on it, just saying i hope you guys get better and better at delivering this content and making it feel good)

that said, you guys may need something akin to reruns/back issues/highlights, because even with temp content, a decent amount of people usually want to experience it again in some way/shape/form

per Colin Johanson:

“We might have events that occur and came back again with a few modifications in the future. We may have events that occur and then find new homes permanently down the road. We may have bosses from a storyline that continue on forever as guild bounty hunts when a story completes. Living world also allows us the opportunity to upgrade and make parts of our existing game better permanently, a living world narrative could allow us to rebuild and change an existing zone or dungeon, or could destroy one entirely.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-explanation-for-temporary-content/first

as you can see that is in the works

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

GW was massive, it was multi-player, it was online, and it was a role-playing game. GW was imo a better RPG than any of the old stand-bys.

GW didn’t meet the “definition” of MMORPG because it lacked a persistent, open world and because your group had each explorable to itself. This was a definition derived from earlier games that even ANet bought into. Perhaps the genre should have been called, POWMMOG instead of MMORPG. That acronym would have more accurately fit the definition.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

GW was massive, it was multi-player, it was online, and it was a role-playing game. GW was imo a better RPG than any of the old stand-bys.

GW didn’t meet the “definition” of MMORPG because it lacked a persistent, open world and because your group had each explorable to itself. This was a definition derived from earlier games that even ANet bought into. Perhaps the genre should have been called, POWMMOG instead of MMORPG. That acronym would have more accurately fit the definition.

Yet there were elements in Guild Wars 1, because it wasn’t an MMO, that made it a stronger game than most MMOs. Yes, I loved Guild Wars 1…I just know it’s not an MMO and I know a lot of the things within it would be impossible within an MMO, no matter what you call it.

For example, I loved vanquishing. It was my favorite thing to do in Guild Wars 1, but unles they created completely instanced zones in Guild Wars 2, it’s not going to happen. Also the way the groups of enemies formed could really only be done in an instanced game. The number of heroes you had was great, but if everyone was running around with eight heroes…well…if you think the world has lag now…just wait. I still think they should introduce heroes for dungeons, just for solo players.

It’s just that so much of what makes Guild Wars 1 great (like the story which is best told in instance) is also what made Guild Wars 1 not an MMO. As soon as Guild Wars 2 became an MMO, several things were going to have to change.

This is hilarious:

Even Colin is quoting himself on how temporary content works

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Dragon-Bash-Living-story-or-annual-event/first#post2035484

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

GW was massive, it was multi-player, it was online, and it was a role-playing game. GW was imo a better RPG than any of the old stand-bys.

GW didn’t meet the “definition” of MMORPG because it lacked a persistent, open world and because your group had each explorable to itself. This was a definition derived from earlier games that even ANet bought into. Perhaps the genre should have been called, POWMMOG instead of MMORPG. That acronym would have more accurately fit the definition.

Yet there were elements in Guild Wars 1, because it wasn’t an MMO, that made it a stronger game than most MMOs. Yes, I loved Guild Wars 1…I just know it’s not an MMO and I know a lot of the things within it would be impossible within an MMO, no matter what you call it.

For example, I loved vanquishing. It was my favorite thing to do in Guild Wars 1, but unles they created completely instanced zones in Guild Wars 2, it’s not going to happen. Also the way the groups of enemies formed could really only be done in an instanced game. The number of heroes you had was great, but if everyone was running around with eight heroes…well…if you think the world has lag now…just wait. I still think they should introduce heroes for dungeons, just for solo players.

It’s just that so much of what makes Guild Wars 1 great (like the story which is best told in instance) is also what made Guild Wars 1 not an MMO. As soon as Guild Wars 2 became an MMO, several things were going to have to change.

Completely instanced zones in GW2? Oh, like dungeons which need help coming up with a reason to kill trash at the moment? Hmm.. That’d be a good place to try out Vanquishing. Heroes weren’t meant to be as cool as they were, I don’t think. They were mainly to replace having people in your party.

I don’t think vanquishing is nearly as impossible to do in GW2 as you’re saying.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO.

GW was massive, it was multi-player, it was online, and it was a role-playing game. GW was imo a better RPG than any of the old stand-bys.

GW didn’t meet the “definition” of MMORPG because it lacked a persistent, open world and because your group had each explorable to itself. This was a definition derived from earlier games that even ANet bought into. Perhaps the genre should have been called, POWMMOG instead of MMORPG. That acronym would have more accurately fit the definition.

Yet there were elements in Guild Wars 1, because it wasn’t an MMO, that made it a stronger game than most MMOs. Yes, I loved Guild Wars 1…I just know it’s not an MMO and I know a lot of the things within it would be impossible within an MMO, no matter what you call it.

For example, I loved vanquishing. It was my favorite thing to do in Guild Wars 1, but unles they created completely instanced zones in Guild Wars 2, it’s not going to happen. Also the way the groups of enemies formed could really only be done in an instanced game. The number of heroes you had was great, but if everyone was running around with eight heroes…well…if you think the world has lag now…just wait. I still think they should introduce heroes for dungeons, just for solo players.

It’s just that so much of what makes Guild Wars 1 great (like the story which is best told in instance) is also what made Guild Wars 1 not an MMO. As soon as Guild Wars 2 became an MMO, several things were going to have to change.

Completely instanced zones in GW2? Oh, like dungeons which need help coming up with a reason to kill trash at the moment? Hmm.. That’d be a good place to try out Vanquishing. Heroes weren’t meant to be as cool as they were, I don’t think. They were mainly to replace having people in your party.

I don’t think vanquishing is nearly as impossible to do in GW2 as you’re saying.

Vanquishing a dungeon instead of a zone is an idea I had and posted elsewhere at some point..but it’s not the same as clearing a zone.

And yes, I think it would be hard to do. But I don’t think either of us could prove it.

I agree with the feeling of being rushed and forced into playing certain content whether I want to or not. I do not enjoy the way temporary content is going and would so much rather have meaningful permanent content added.