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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

So, after all these months of playing Guild Wars 2, my Guild had a discussion tonight. We talked about what little there is for us to do in the game. We talked about everything that has changed since launch, and everything that still needs to be worked on. Mostly, we talked about the temporary content that keeps getting thrown into the game.

What exactly is the point of working on content that is purposefully temporary? I know that ArenaNet says it’s to make the world of Guild Wars 2 feel “alive”. But honestly, none of us have gotten that feeling from it. At all. We just get a sense of rushed work that was all for naught. Is there anybody out there that legitimately feels that the addition of content for a month (or a few weeks) makes the world feel much more alive?

I just can’t grasp the idea. To my Guild and I, most of the Flame and Frost was a joke. The dynamic events that were added gave us maybe an hour or two of new content, and all of the volunteer events were painfully boring. It was “press F” the game, basically.

Super Adventure Box was a great addition to the game. And then it turned out to be temporary, even though it was just a fun little side-game. Yes, it will be returning. But why even take it out, then?

I don’t know. I just don’t have much to do in the game anymore, I guess. The longevity of repeating the same things with no purpose/rewards is getting to me. I guess what I’m trying to ask is, did anybody find the Flame and Frost “expansions worth of content” to be satisfactory?

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Aside from the final dungeon, which I quite liked, I agree with you about Flame and Frost. But I do see a logic to removing things from the game.

The game is better and feels more alive when everyone is doing the same things, because everyone is in the same place. Most games have raids and dungeons that do this, but Anet wants to do it with the open world. So they use the world as a stage, rotating where people go for different acts. This next bit will be on a different part of the stage, but the population of people will be higher, because people will be doing it. More events spawn, events scale up, everyone has, in theory, more fun.

You’re looking at the living story as an end, when I think Anet sees it as more of a means.

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Posted by: LFk.1408

LFk.1408

It’s definitely a debatable topic, but the primary positive to temporary content is the excitement it generates. With limited experiences comes limited loot, limited fights, etc. People are more inclined to play them knowing it’s a one time deal. This fills the content with players, makes people eager to play them, and generates chatter about the items that come from them.

I enjoyed Frost and Flame, in kind of a passing way. I did everything once. I did not grind the MF dungeon, I didn’t repeat anything. Just a once over. I think the content managed to co-exist with the rest of the world nicely, and was neat without being overbearing.

I would prefer that ArenaNet prioritized the more permanent parts of the game. WvW needs new maps, sPvP needs new… everything (it has so much potential and yet is completely underdeveloped). Believe me, there are many gripes I have about this game, but these mini story arcs are not one of them.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

First of all, let me thank both of you for actually reading my topic and being civil. You’re awesome. You both bring up very good points that I hadn’t given too much thought about, so thank you again.

I suppose it is true that it brings people together in one central area. And that does feel nice, in a way. But I feel like this actually kills off every other part of the game for a bit while everybody clears through the new stuff. It doesn’t make the world of Tyria feel alive, it makes that one area they focused on feel alive.

LFK, I did what you did. Played through the content once (exception of the dungeon, which I did thrice) and then was done. I suppose this wouldn’t be so much of an issue of mine if they did fix up the rest of the game. There are so many things that are still in need of repair, and I guess if they were all up to snuff, I would have more things to work towards.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Rift did the same thing with their events…and thats where I first thought of it. The world is too big to let everyone go anywhere they want and to expect a crowd. The only way for people to really see other people is for the company to funnel them into specific areas.

The big area used to be Orr. You’d see mad numbers of people in Orr running specific event chains. That’s mostly gone now, by design.

Last couple of months I’ve been running around Diessa Plateau and Wayfarer Foothills a lot (I’m up to 20 giants killed thanks to the Nageling giant lol) and those zones have been quite crowded and it’s been good fun to run there. But yeah I’m ready for a break.

I need a new zone to hang out in for a while.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

We’ll see what Southsun Cove brings us, I guess. Last time it came to us, it was a pretty big disappointment, so I don’t have too much hope. But I’ll have to just wait and see, I suppose.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I think they started slow because they were testing stuff out. Of course, it could just be that they don’t have the time to properly do this stuff and they feel the need to keep doing it. I guess we’ll see.

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

at least bring back the dungeon.

some time, in the future, at least.

i am sure people will play it.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I think we’ll see the dungeon again. At the least, they’ll learn from it and incorporate ideas that worked into new stuff down the road.

As to the OP, yes, I loved Flame and Frost and am looking forward to see where the story goes in the future.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I, too, enjoyed Frost and Flame, and the story it begins. For me, it is sort of like experiencing a book, that I get to take part in, instead of just read. This is just the beginning of a long adventure that will, hopefully, take us through many parts of Tyria.
A side-effect that I like, is I have come to know the areas where the story has takes place so far very well, and that makes it easier (for me) to notice changes. Also, it is easier to find specific things I might need. Now, I am not saying that is a bonus for everyone, but it is something I enjoy. I have always enjoyed Holiday content, and I feel Living Story content is no different, other than the label. The Devs have said that some of the content may make an appearance, again, just as the Holiday content may.
Just my two cents. =)

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Posted by: Tosha Daydreamer.9251

Tosha Daydreamer.9251

I think they started slow because they were testing stuff out. Of course, it could just be that they don’t have the time to properly do this stuff and they feel the need to keep doing it. I guess we’ll see.

True, but then they should not have marketed it this way. Grand announcements, devs posting teasers, interviews with how awesome it was going to be… I think it was mostly because of my too-high expectations it fell flat. It was like the OP said “an expansion worth of content” was no where near what it acutally turned out to be.

It reminds me of last year, when the weather announcers promised giant thunderstorms in my area. Now, I am a huge fan of thunderstorms, so I bought snacks, pulled the plug of the phone and settled myself to watch the promised inferno.
The air smelled faintly of ozone, but other than that, I did not even see a single lightning bolt to brighten my evening sky.

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Posted by: ShadowMaster.5708

ShadowMaster.5708

I agree so much… Why care to waste time and money making temporary content? The game wont even progress this way and they will start loosing players. Soon, this game will be dead because of lack of content. In 2 years time i bet we still have the same things ingame as now. The same dungeons, WvW and sPvP… Thats all, sicne everything they add is temporary…

I havent even done flame and frost (Except the dungeon) simply because i dont want to. Whats the point? Bad reward and IMO… Boring to do. The dungeon is GREAT! I love the final boss fight, it feels intense because it is 2 bosses at the same time, you have jump over the schockwaves, dogde AOE and all that. Its fantastic. But… I wont do it to much, because i might get “addicted” to it and get so dissapointed when it dissapears (1 day from now)

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Posted by: zenleto.6179

zenleto.6179

I enjoyed Frost and Flame, and hopefully I’ll enjoy the next one too. I really think that eventually there will be two or three Living Stories at a time spread over the maps that will keep people busier than this first one did.

And surely they have people working on be permanent content. I’ve only been playing since the beginning of the year and it already feels like more has been added to the game in this time than I saw in other mmos in a similar time. Especially considering how young the game still is.

Also, I’m old enough not to be particularly disappointed by things if they don’t pan. Not rage quit disappointed anyway (not aimed at anybody here).

Fire up the Hyperbowl ma, we’re going to town!

Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I think they started slow because they were testing stuff out. Of course, it could just be that they don’t have the time to properly do this stuff and they feel the need to keep doing it. I guess we’ll see.

True, but then they should not have marketed it this way. Grand announcements, devs posting teasers, interviews with how awesome it was going to be… I think it was mostly because of my too-high expectations it fell flat. It was like the OP said “an expansion worth of content” was no where near what it acutally turned out to be.

It reminds me of last year, when the weather announcers promised giant thunderstorms in my area. Now, I am a huge fan of thunderstorms, so I bought snacks, pulled the plug of the phone and settled myself to watch the promised inferno.
The air smelled faintly of ozone, but other than that, I did not even see a single lightning bolt to brighten my evening sky.

Oh yeah, 100%. I said several times they should have said nothing about it and just let people find stuff and start talking about it. It would have been sooo much more effective.

This was badly handled by Anet.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

I enjoyed Frost and Flame, and hopefully I’ll enjoy the next one too. I really think that eventually there will be two or three Living Stories at a time spread over the maps that will keep people busier than this first one did.

And surely they have people working on be permanent content. I’ve only been playing since the beginning of the year and it already feels like more has been added to the game in this time than I saw in other mmos in a similar time. Especially considering how young the game still is.

Also, I’m old enough not to be particularly disappointed by things if they don’t pan. Not rage quit disappointed anyway (not aimed at anybody here).

Honestly, I don’t know if they do have a team working on permanent new content. Just about everything they’ve released so far for GW2 has been temporary. The only noteable things that have stayed are Fractals and Southsun. And Southsun is completely empty due to horribly annoying enemies, and the removal of the Rich Orichalcum node.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I enjoyed Frost and Flame, and hopefully I’ll enjoy the next one too. I really think that eventually there will be two or three Living Stories at a time spread over the maps that will keep people busier than this first one did.

And surely they have people working on be permanent content. I’ve only been playing since the beginning of the year and it already feels like more has been added to the game in this time than I saw in other mmos in a similar time. Especially considering how young the game still is.

Also, I’m old enough not to be particularly disappointed by things if they don’t pan. Not rage quit disappointed anyway (not aimed at anybody here).

Honestly, I don’t know if they do have a team working on permanent new content. Just about everything they’ve released so far for GW2 has been temporary. The only noteable things that have stayed are Fractals and Southsun. And Southsun is completely empty due to horribly annoying enemies, and the removal of the Rich Orichalcum node.

The only other thing I’d add to permanent content are guild missions,. which are permanent (and there’s quite a lot of content there, not just bounties) and the redoing of Ascalon Catacombs, which is permanent content (even if people didn’t like that it was so much harder now).

Also they did add some 30 new dynamic events and new jumping puzzles as well. I’m pretty sure they added new minidungeons too, all of which are permanent.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Guild Missions are content, yes. I did forget about them. Mainly because my Guild can’t do them because we don’t want to have to grind out CoF for hundreds of hours to turn Gold into Influence just so we can experience that content. But yes, I suppose so.

I wouldn’t count the AC redo as new content. It’s still the same dungeon, just with new boss mechanics. And by new boss mechanics, I mean boss mechanics. The old bosses were terrible. >.>

The DEs are neglible in my opinion, but they do count as new content. And jump puzzles are always fantastic, so a big yes there. It’s one of the few things consisitently good in the game at the moment. :P

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Guild Missions are content, yes. I did forget about them. Mainly because my Guild can’t do them because we don’t want to have to grind out CoF for hundreds of hours to turn Gold into Influence just so we can experience that content. But yes, I suppose so.

I wouldn’t count the AC redo as new content. It’s still the same dungeon, just with new boss mechanics. And by new boss mechanics, I mean boss mechanics. The old bosses were terrible. >.>

The DEs are neglible in my opinion, but they do count as new content. And jump puzzles are always fantastic, so a big yes there. It’s one of the few things consisitently good in the game at the moment. :P

I don’t get this whole I can’t do guild missions because my guild isn’t geared up. Most servers have public guild missions. Why can’t your guild just join another guild to rep for public missions and get your personal rewards that way?

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Guild Missions are content, yes. I did forget about them. Mainly because my Guild can’t do them because we don’t want to have to grind out CoF for hundreds of hours to turn Gold into Influence just so we can experience that content. But yes, I suppose so.

I wouldn’t count the AC redo as new content. It’s still the same dungeon, just with new boss mechanics. And by new boss mechanics, I mean boss mechanics. The old bosses were terrible. >.>

The DEs are neglible in my opinion, but they do count as new content. And jump puzzles are always fantastic, so a big yes there. It’s one of the few things consisitently good in the game at the moment. :P

I don’t get this whole I can’t do guild missions because my guild isn’t geared up. Most servers have public guild missions. Why can’t your guild just join another guild to rep for public missions and get your personal rewards that way?

Takes away the purpose of our Guild. We didn’t want to play with a bunch of random strangers. We wanted to play the content and take it at our own pace, not be surrounded by hundreds of people we don’t know and don’t actually play with. I’m not saying that the Guild Missions aren’t content, but we’d much rather experience them as our Guild, not as some non-contributing force in somebody else’s.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Krosslite.1950

Krosslite.1950

per Colin Johanson:

We’re trying something very unique and different with Gw2, and a lot of it plays back on the original ideas and concepts we had for the game all these years we’re trying to build towards and accomplish. It’s important to us to continue to try new things, looking at ways of evolving and innovating what a live game can be. In many cases, we’re learning right along with you guys how all of this is going to work for a live game, and constantly adjusting as we see the outcomes and find ways to innovate on what a true online world experience can be.

Living World is above all, the attempt to really give the sense the world is constantly changing and evolving. That there is events and content that change the world in the short term (like our current events) and events that can occur or change for the long term, which is what we’re slowly building towards in the future with Living World content.

Living world absolutely does not mean nothing but content that comes in and leaves again a few weeks later, and though so far that’s primarily what you’ve seen, it’s not all we will do in the future. The intent is living world provides us with a story and narrative experience, sort of like your favorite TV show, to constantly update and change the world and provide unique and exciting rewards on a regular basis.

We might have events that occur and came back again with a few modifications in the future. We may have events that occur and then find new homes permanently down the road. We may have bosses from a storyline that continue on forever as guild bounty hunts when a story completes. Living world also allows us the opportunity to upgrade and make parts of our existing game better permanently, a living world narrative could allow us to rebuild and change an existing zone or dungeon, or could destroy one entirely.

Our goal is to get to a point where on a regular basis, the world around you is not only changing in the short term through our normal event system, it’s changing and evolving permanently through our living world releases as well. What you’ve seen so far is primarily some tests and warmup stuff while we in the background organize the company to support this exciting future for our game, the future for living world is filled with endless possibilities.

Enjoy the ride!

May 2nd, 16:49

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-explanation-for-temporary-content/first

Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred

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Posted by: Shadowmoon.7986

Shadowmoon.7986

Temporary content sucks, they adds nothing to the game, just a distraction factor while they bilk the masses with their cash shop. What I would rather see with the wasted man hours they used in this content to generate permanent events with a new world boss, a permanent dungeon with more paths soon to come, additional paths to existing dungeons, or additional fractals. Instead we got 4 hours worth of content that can now to forgotten.
And then you compare this crap to the GW1 “Guild Wars Beyond” the equaliant to the living story. Right now I can play the War in Kryta and Winds of Change anytime i log in. It was truely additional content. The living story is a cheap time waster. Why can’t be have more content like GW1!

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Posted by: Newbie.4586

Newbie.4586

I don’t mind the temporary content…though most of the time I don’t have the time to do it. What I would like to see though is the chance to relive a living story (Even if it had to be bought from the gem store) so those that missed out could have a chance to play it through.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Rejoice! The devs have stated there will be permanent content added with the next Living Story arc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Monthly-SLOW-Phases-like-F-F-was/first#post2018858

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Say they introduce new permanent content. People then grind it into the ground in short order, get what they want from it, and then ignore it.

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Posted by: ricky markham.8173

ricky markham.8173

i dont mind some temporary content id like some piece remain from each bit of temp content even if its a minigame or something small. its supposed to be a living story it should change the world in some minor way.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Guild Missions are content, yes. I did forget about them. Mainly because my Guild can’t do them because we don’t want to have to grind out CoF for hundreds of hours to turn Gold into Influence just so we can experience that content. But yes, I suppose so.

I wouldn’t count the AC redo as new content. It’s still the same dungeon, just with new boss mechanics. And by new boss mechanics, I mean boss mechanics. The old bosses were terrible. >.>

The DEs are neglible in my opinion, but they do count as new content. And jump puzzles are always fantastic, so a big yes there. It’s one of the few things consisitently good in the game at the moment. :P

I don’t get this whole I can’t do guild missions because my guild isn’t geared up. Most servers have public guild missions. Why can’t your guild just join another guild to rep for public missions and get your personal rewards that way?

Takes away the purpose of our Guild. We didn’t want to play with a bunch of random strangers. We wanted to play the content and take it at our own pace, not be surrounded by hundreds of people we don’t know and don’t actually play with. I’m not saying that the Guild Missions aren’t content, but we’d much rather experience them as our Guild, not as some non-contributing force in somebody else’s.

Guild missions last for half an hour to an hour, once, maybe twice a week. I played baseball with a team and we trained together all the time. But you know, we could go and play pool at a bar afterwards some days with other people who aren’t on a team. This isn’t an all day thing.

If you go into WvW, what happens if other people start running with your guild? Do you shout at them to go away.

If you play most guild public guild missions, it’s no different from a dynamic event, except in your head. You don’t have to socialize with people, you run in, you get your reward, you’re still in your voice software (if you guys use that) just like when I WvW with my guild, we’re mostly in my guild channel instead of the server guild channel. Sure there are other people around…but I’m still playing with my guild.

Really you should just make public guild missions a guild event and make it part of something your guild does together.

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Posted by: chreescawks.6517

chreescawks.6517

Guild Missions are content, yes. I did forget about them. Mainly because my Guild can’t do them because we don’t want to have to grind out CoF for hundreds of hours to turn Gold into Influence just so we can experience that content. But yes, I suppose so.

I wouldn’t count the AC redo as new content. It’s still the same dungeon, just with new boss mechanics. And by new boss mechanics, I mean boss mechanics. The old bosses were terrible. >.>

The DEs are neglible in my opinion, but they do count as new content. And jump puzzles are always fantastic, so a big yes there. It’s one of the few things consisitently good in the game at the moment. :P

I don’t get this whole I can’t do guild missions because my guild isn’t geared up. Most servers have public guild missions. Why can’t your guild just join another guild to rep for public missions and get your personal rewards that way?

Takes away the purpose of our Guild. We didn’t want to play with a bunch of random strangers. We wanted to play the content and take it at our own pace, not be surrounded by hundreds of people we don’t know and don’t actually play with. I’m not saying that the Guild Missions aren’t content, but we’d much rather experience them as our Guild, not as some non-contributing force in somebody else’s.

Guild missions last for half an hour to an hour, once, maybe twice a week. I played baseball with a team and we trained together all the time. But you know, we could go and play pool at a bar afterwards some days with other people who aren’t on a team. This isn’t an all day thing.

If you go into WvW, what happens if other people start running with your guild? Do you shout at them to go away.

If you play most guild public guild missions, it’s no different from a dynamic event, except in your head. You don’t have to socialize with people, you run in, you get your reward, you’re still in your voice software (if you guys use that) just like when I WvW with my guild, we’re mostly in my guild channel instead of the server guild channel. Sure there are other people around…but I’m still playing with my guild.

Really you should just make public guild missions a guild event and make it part of something your guild does together.

I think you’re missing the point here.

Guild Wars 2 was advertised from the start as a game where you can “play your way.” Here’s even a quote from Colin Johanson this past January on where GW2 is headed in 2013:

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Forcing small guilds to seek out larger guilds to do guild missions goes against one of the core principles of Guild Wars 2. They went a step in the right direction when they added the Guild Bounty Training, but it’s still a Band-aid for the bigger problem: the barrier to entry for guild missions is simply too high. I want to do guild missions with my guildmates—my friends—without being forced to either wait months while we slowly build up the influence, or make quick gold (read: grind CoF) and buy it outright to experience the first real, fun guild content. It’s as simple as that.

Character: Chrees, Asura Elementalist
Guild: Sea of Stars [SoS]
Server: Ehmry Bay

(edited by chreescawks.6517)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Guild Missions are content, yes. I did forget about them. Mainly because my Guild can’t do them because we don’t want to have to grind out CoF for hundreds of hours to turn Gold into Influence just so we can experience that content. But yes, I suppose so.

I wouldn’t count the AC redo as new content. It’s still the same dungeon, just with new boss mechanics. And by new boss mechanics, I mean boss mechanics. The old bosses were terrible. >.>

The DEs are neglible in my opinion, but they do count as new content. And jump puzzles are always fantastic, so a big yes there. It’s one of the few things consisitently good in the game at the moment. :P

I don’t get this whole I can’t do guild missions because my guild isn’t geared up. Most servers have public guild missions. Why can’t your guild just join another guild to rep for public missions and get your personal rewards that way?

Takes away the purpose of our Guild. We didn’t want to play with a bunch of random strangers. We wanted to play the content and take it at our own pace, not be surrounded by hundreds of people we don’t know and don’t actually play with. I’m not saying that the Guild Missions aren’t content, but we’d much rather experience them as our Guild, not as some non-contributing force in somebody else’s.

Guild missions last for half an hour to an hour, once, maybe twice a week. I played baseball with a team and we trained together all the time. But you know, we could go and play pool at a bar afterwards some days with other people who aren’t on a team. This isn’t an all day thing.

If you go into WvW, what happens if other people start running with your guild? Do you shout at them to go away.

If you play most guild public guild missions, it’s no different from a dynamic event, except in your head. You don’t have to socialize with people, you run in, you get your reward, you’re still in your voice software (if you guys use that) just like when I WvW with my guild, we’re mostly in my guild channel instead of the server guild channel. Sure there are other people around…but I’m still playing with my guild.

Really you should just make public guild missions a guild event and make it part of something your guild does together.

I think you’re missing the point here.

Guild Wars 2 was advertised from the start as a game where you can “play your way.” Here’s even a quote from Colin Johanson this past January on where GW2 is headed in 2013:

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Forcing small guilds to seek out larger guilds to do guild missions goes against one of the core principles of Guild Wars 2. They went a step in the right direction when they added the Guild Bounty Training, but it’s still a Band-aid for the bigger problem: the barrier to entry for guild missions is simply too high. I want to do guild missions with my guildmates—my friends—without being forced to either wait months while we slowly build up the influence, or make quick gold (read: grind CoF) and buy it outright to experience the first real, fun guild content. It’s as simple as that.

Actually play your way was why guild missions were introduced as they were. There was nothing outside of WvW for big guilds to do PERIOD. I could run a dungeon with four other guys and if we had another three guys what wanted to join us we were screwed. The whole idea is that big guilds really did have no content. Everything else in the game was designed around small guilds. So this content was introduced for people to play their way.

Doing a public guild mission means you can do this and get the rewards and still be in your guild. Making content only small guilds can do, would make it trivial for big guilds and we wouldn’t be able to play our way.

It’s selfish to want EVERYTHING in the game available for you. Let the big guilds serve some purpose in PVe too.

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Posted by: Meluna.1764

Meluna.1764

I don’t get why people are so upset about temporary content. Because… well.. you asked for it. A lot. When the game started, the forum was choked with threads of people whining about the lack of world changing events. It was promised to us in the manifesto after all. The world will change over time, not be stale and boring like usual MMOs. it was one of the selling points. And after launch, when they were still busy observing how the game turned out, players immediately turned on dynamic events because they had no longer impact and reset too fast. Now we get living world content, where the story actually effects the outside world, things change over time as promised. The original threads are gone since they delivered and instead we got people now complaining about getting what was promised. You can’t please everybody =|
The only thing I would mention is that player action has little effect on the story right now. It was promised that OUR actions affect the world. If that is incorporated into living story (one server goes one direction, one server decides differently) then all promises would have been fulfilled. But living story is still going and I’m curious to watch what will happen.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

I don’t get why people are so upset about temporary content. Because… well.. you asked for it. A lot. When the game started, the forum was choked with threads of people whining about the lack of world changing events. It was promised to us in the manifesto after all. The world will change over time, not be stale and boring like usual MMOs. it was one of the selling points. And after launch, when they were still busy observing how the game turned out, players immediately turned on dynamic events because they had no longer impact and reset too fast. Now we get living world content, where the story actually effects the outside world, things change over time as promised. The original threads are gone since they delivered and instead we got people now complaining about getting what was promised. You can’t please everybody =|
The only thing I would mention is that player action has little effect on the story right now. It was promised that OUR actions affect the world. If that is incorporated into living story (one server goes one direction, one server decides differently) then all promises would have been fulfilled. But living story is still going and I’m curious to watch what will happen.

What exactly did Flame and Frost change and meaningfully impact? It added a new instanced town in Wayfarer Foothills? There’s still no reason to actually go to Wayfarer Foothills aside from Maw. It added Heralds that do absolutely nothing to help you through the new content? It added Refugee camps in Lion’s Arch in a spot that nobody ever goes to?

I’m not only complaining about temporary content, I’m complaining about the lack of good and useful content. Everything that was added in Flame and Frost was very lackluster and left little impact at all.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Actually play your way was why guild missions were introduced as they were. There was nothing outside of WvW for big guilds to do PERIOD. I could run a dungeon with four other guys and if we had another three guys what wanted to join us we were screwed. The whole idea is that big guilds really did have no content. Everything else in the game was designed around small guilds. So this content was introduced for people to play their way.

Doing a public guild mission means you can do this and get the rewards and still be in your guild. Making content only small guilds can do, would make it trivial for big guilds and we wouldn’t be able to play our way.

It’s selfish to want EVERYTHING in the game available for you. Let the big guilds serve some purpose in PVe too.

How is it playing my way when I’m forced to play in a specific way that I didn’t want to? Not that I’m going to argue about that, but seriously, that’s the exact opposite of playing your own way. That’s “play the way we want you to want to play.”

Aside from that, I honestly don’t understand this whole idea of the rest of the content being created just for small Guilds. Small Guilds typically have more than five people, and the others left out are still left out. It’s not an issue that the game was designed around small Guilds, it’s an issue of the game being designed around only allowing 5-man parties. Which is an entirely different issue that needs to be handled delicately, and needs not be discussed. In fact, this thread is derailing from the original sentiment, so let’s try to get it back on track.

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Posted by: Hoyvin.3241

Hoyvin.3241

They’ve already said that Flame and Frost was a test of the living story concept and wasn’t intended to be very large or in depth. It’s a proof of concept. Squawking about temporary content is silly. WoW is a graveyard of unused content. There are whole continents of content with no one in them. I love the idea of temporary content. You defeat the Molten Alliance, it goes away. You don’t have the Lich King still floating around years after he was defeated. The world changes, and stays that way. What a great concept. There’s an old showbiz saying: “always leave them wanting more.”

Secondly, “play your own way” still has to exist withing the framework provided by the game. You can’t play a battlemage in heavy armor casting spells. The game isn’t built that way. They can’t make it an “all things to all people.” It’s impossible. It’s like the guy who complained that crafting is unfair to people that like to play only one character. He couldn’t “play his own way” because he could only have two crafting disciplines at a time. They can’t possibly cater to everyone’s whim. They can’t possibly make “equivalent” experiences for 3 million people.

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Posted by: awe extender.1908

awe extender.1908

I don’t agree. I don’t think it’s a bad idea with temporary content. It makes the game much more dynamic and fun. The extra fun factor exist only because of the short period of that special content. If all the now removed contents (halloween/wintersday and so on…) were still around, they all would have lost their affection value. No one would bother doing them (well maybe except the Mad king dungeon, that was just epic!)
My point is, that the temporary content makes the game more interesting.

Yes, you might miss the chance to do all the temporary contents due to lack of time or rl issues, but at least you know there will soon be more and new content in a short period of time. Maybe you get the time to get those!

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

Say they introduce new permanent content. People then grind it into the ground in short order, get what they want from it, and then ignore it.

So the alternative is to make content that is depressingly boring and half the people won’t even see? I mean, MF was a sweet dungeon, but the rest of the event was a lesson in pressing F. Not to mention all the people I have seen asking why they can’t do MF anymore, why is it gone, etc.

Oh well, maybe they will let the rest of the people playing experience the content later on. I’d rather have stale content than no content personally.

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

They’ve already said that Flame and Frost was a test of the living story concept and wasn’t intended to be very large or in depth. It’s a proof of concept. Squawking about temporary content is silly. WoW is a graveyard of unused content. There are whole continents of content with no one in them. I love the idea of temporary content. You defeat the Molten Alliance, it goes away. You don’t have the Lich King still floating around years after he was defeated. The world changes, and stays that way. What a great concept. There’s an old showbiz saying: “always leave them wanting more.”

Secondly, “play your own way” still has to exist withing the framework provided by the game. You can’t play a battlemage in heavy armor casting spells. The game isn’t built that way. They can’t make it an “all things to all people.” It’s impossible. It’s like the guy who complained that crafting is unfair to people that like to play only one character. He couldn’t “play his own way” because he could only have two crafting disciplines at a time. They can’t possibly cater to everyone’s whim. They can’t possibly make “equivalent” experiences for 3 million people.

What does it prove, though? Proof of what concept? I honestly fail to see how this new “living story” is any different from what they did during the Lost Shores event. They had events that occurred during Lost Shores that updated over time, just like what they’ve done here. Literally the only difference that I see is that they made the content stay in the world longer so that more people could experience them. That’s about it.

In response to WoW being a “graveyard of unused content”.. that is absurd. That content was not “unused”. It just wasn’t removed from the game for those that wanted to experience it. That content was VERY much used in the time that they were relevant, and they are still used for people hunting down achievements or skins.

As for the “play your own way” thing, it’s n.ot what the thread is about. Please let it drop

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(edited by AlietteFaye.7316)

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Posted by: Meluna.1764

Meluna.1764

Which is because Lost Shores was the same concept and seeing how F&F will now tie back to it can be considered an early chapter of Living Story. They made better content and it stayed longer and was much better accessable. Living Story simply means you get to experience significant events in the world as they happen.

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Posted by: Tolmos.8395

Tolmos.8395

I can see why they are doing the revolving temporary content, but not the one time only.

For revolving- it makes the game look like more content is being produced than there is. If they pop out the content as permanent, then we’ll play it, finish it and never go back. Also, this time next year they have to produce even more new content to put out, or folks will say “But what about last year?! This year sucks!”

Doing it this way, they are guaranteed to have content to push out every holiday, in between those holidays, etc. They can keep a constant flow of patches going without having to put in the work of needing to produce new content. And there is also the hope that since we weren’t able to play it after all that time, it will feel new and shiny to us again.

I have no explanation for the 1 time content, but the temporary content is a pretty sound business decision since it can be used as a “gift that keeps on giving”. Sucks for us players, but it makes them look good in the long run.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Which is because Lost Shores was the same concept and seeing how F&F will now tie back to it can be considered an early chapter of Living Story. They made better content and it stayed longer and was much better accessable. Living Story simply means you get to experience significant events in the world as they happen.

So why exactly is it just now being toted as a “living story?” Back when Lost Shores was released, it was known as a one-time event.

I wouldn’t say the content was better, actually, aside from the MF dungeon. Lost Shores was actually very memorable and much more involving than this “push f” living story arc. Granted, it was awful just how long it took to get the Ancient Karka events done, but it was much better. In fact, just in the time frame that the Lost Shores one-time event was completed in, it was much better. It honestly feels like Flame and Frost could have been a weekend long event, maybe a week or two at most. Not this overdrawn 3-part release.

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Posted by: Hoyvin.3241

Hoyvin.3241

In response to WoW being a “graveyard of unused content”.. that is absurd. That content was not “unused”. It just wasn’t removed from the game for those that wanted to experience it. That content was VERY much used in the time that they were relevant, and they are still used for people hunting down achievements or skins.

Right. Very much used in the time they were relevant. Virtually unused now. Go to Hellfire Penninsula now and there may be 3 or 4 people in there leveling toons and trying to sprint though them to get to the relevant content. The dungeons have no one in them. The raids even less so. Achievements and skins mean more when they’re not available anymore. That’s an opinion. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it wrong.

The living story is a concept. A dynamic world where things change over time. The Lich King is dead. You can’t go fight him anymore. The Molten Alliance has been defeated. The dungeon is gone. You may say “But why?” Because that’s the way they’ve designed it, and judging by some of the responses in this thread, it seems fairly popular. I know I prefer that over leaving in ancient content that no one does anymore. It makes the world more immersive. I think it’s a great idea. Flame and Frost was a proof on concept for Arenanet. Not the player. It was sold as a trial of the whole living story concept. And judging by the fact that they’re rolling out more of it they proved to themselves what they were trying to prove. Whatever that was. It wasn’t supposed to blow you away.

I’m guessing that the original Lost Shores content was premature, so rather than roll the whole thing out, they decided to test a couple things first. So we got Flame & Frost.

(edited by Hoyvin.3241)

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Posted by: ShinraGuardian.8053

ShinraGuardian.8053

I like the temporary content. It gives me something new to look forward to if I ever get bored with what I am doing now.

Ofcourse, it should go without saying I wouldn’t mind permanent content thrown in every now and then too, because I really enjoyed most of the temp content thats been put out.

Dragonbrand
Elementalist
The Dragonfly Effect [Phi]

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

In response to WoW being a “graveyard of unused content”.. that is absurd. That content was not “unused”. It just wasn’t removed from the game for those that wanted to experience it. That content was VERY much used in the time that they were relevant, and they are still used for people hunting down achievements or skins.

Right. Very much used in the time they were relevant. Virtually unused now. Go to Hellfire Penninsula now and there may be 3 or 4 people in there leveling toons and trying to sprint though them to get to the relevant content. The dungeons have no one in them. The raids even less so. Achievements and skins mean more when they’re not available anymore.

The living story is a concept. A dynamic world where things change over time. The Lich King is dead. You can’t go fight him anymore. The Molten Alliance has been defeated. The dungeon is gone. You may say “But why?” Because that’s the way they’ve designed it, and judging by some of the responses in this thread, it seems fairly popular. I know I prefer that over leaving in ancient content that no one does anymore. It makes the world more immersive. I think it’s a great idea. Flame and Frost was a proof on concept for Arenanet. Not the player. It was sold as a trial of the whole living story concept. And judging by the fact that they’re rolling out more of it they proved to themselves what they were trying to prove. It wasn’t supposed to blow you away.

So by your own idea, they should remove just about every zone from Guild Wars 2. Because there is just about nobody in them. There’s people at the boss events for their daily chests, and that’s just about it. Nobody uses these zones anymore, so we should take them out, too, right? Oh, and get those dumb repeating “dynamic events” out of the game. How is it dynamic when I’ve seen and done the same thing six times in the past two hours? Oh, and while we’re at it, remove those dungeons in the game. All of them. It doesn’t make sense that I’ve killed Ghost Eater eighty times, or that I destroyed the Nightmare tree again and again.

It wasn’t supposed to blow me away? Don’t market it out as an expansion’s worth of content. And you still have yet to explain what the concept is behind the living story. It’s no different than their one-time events exception of the fact that it stayed in for more time, which is what people suggested for their one-time events in the first place.

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

In response to WoW being a “graveyard of unused content”.. that is absurd. That content was not “unused”. It just wasn’t removed from the game for those that wanted to experience it. That content was VERY much used in the time that they were relevant, and they are still used for people hunting down achievements or skins.

Right. Very much used in the time they were relevant. Virtually unused now. Go to Hellfire Penninsula now and there may be 3 or 4 people in there leveling toons and trying to sprint though them to get to the relevant content. The dungeons have no one in them. The raids even less so. Achievements and skins mean more when they’re not available anymore.

The living story is a concept. A dynamic world where things change over time. The Lich King is dead. You can’t go fight him anymore. The Molten Alliance has been defeated. The dungeon is gone. You may say “But why?” Because that’s the way they’ve designed it, and judging by some of the responses in this thread, it seems fairly popular. I know I prefer that over leaving in ancient content that no one does anymore. It makes the world more immersive. I think it’s a great idea. Flame and Frost was a proof on concept for Arenanet. Not the player. It was sold as a trial of the whole living story concept. And judging by the fact that they’re rolling out more of it they proved to themselves what they were trying to prove. It wasn’t supposed to blow you away.

So by your own idea, they should remove just about every zone from Guild Wars 2. Because there is just about nobody in them. There’s people at the boss events for their daily chests, and that’s just about it. Nobody uses these zones anymore, so we should take them out, too, right? Oh, and get those dumb repeating “dynamic events” out of the game. How is it dynamic when I’ve seen and done the same thing six times in the past two hours? Oh, and while we’re at it, remove those dungeons in the game. All of them. It doesn’t make sense that I’ve killed Ghost Eater eighty times, or that I destroyed the Nightmare tree again and again.

It wasn’t supposed to blow me away? Don’t market it out as an expansion’s worth of content. And you still have yet to explain what the concept is behind the living story. It’s no different than their one-time events exception of the fact that it stayed in for more time, which is what people suggested for their one-time events in the first place.

Well said, +1

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

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Posted by: Hoyvin.3241

Hoyvin.3241

So by your own idea, they should remove just about every zone from Guild Wars 2. Because there is just about nobody in them. There’s people at the boss events for their daily chests, and that’s just about it. Nobody uses these zones anymore, so we should take them out, too, right? Oh, and get those dumb repeating “dynamic events” out of the game. How is it dynamic when I’ve seen and done the same thing six times in the past two hours? Oh, and while we’re at it, remove those dungeons in the game. All of them. It doesn’t make sense that I’ve killed Ghost Eater eighty times, or that I destroyed the Nightmare tree again and again.

Nonsense. Of course not. There obviously has to be some permanent content otherwise new players and alts have nowhere to level. Everything can’t be 100% dynamic, that’s impossible. At least at this point. There are eight permanent dungeons, and I’m sure there will be more. There are dynamic events that give the illusion of permanent changes.

It wasn’t supposed to blow me away? Don’t market it out as an expansion’s worth of content. And you still have yet to explain what the concept is behind the living story. It’s no different than their one-time events exception of the fact that it stayed in for more time, which is what people suggested for their one-time events in the first place.

Show me where Flame & Frost itself was touted as an expansions worth of content.

What’s to explain behind the concept of living story? Isn’t it obvious? It’s what were discussing in this thread. Whether these sort of world changing events with temporary content can work. I think they can, and obviously Arenanet thinks so, as well. They’re obviously trying to break the mold with GW2. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Obviously, you don’t like it. Some of us do.

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Posted by: Krosslite.1950

Krosslite.1950

What’s to explain behind the concept of living story? Isn’t it obvious? It’s what were discussing in this thread. Whether these sort of world changing events with temporary content can work. I think they can, and obviously Arenanet thinks so, as well. They’re obviously trying to break the mold with GW2. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Obviously, you don’t like it. Some of us do.

OP ignored my post of what Colin said about temporary content and that this is just the beginning. He clearly stated that some content will stay and most would not.
The only constant to this game will be change and he the OP needs to accept or move on.

Simply Hoyvin I am in agreement with you.

The OP also needs to start reading all the post in this thread and not ignore a post which included a posting by an Anet rep.

Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred

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Posted by: Hoyvin.3241

Hoyvin.3241

OP ignored my post of what Colin said about temporary content and that this is just the beginning. He clearly stated that some content will stay and most would not.
The only constant to this game will be change and he the OP needs to accept or move on.

Thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere, I just didn’t want to dig it up.

Also, a living story arc can be an expansions worth of content, and it doesn’t have to be all at once. They can roll it out over a period of time with dungeons and achievements and skins etc. That’s the whole idea and I think it’s a good one. Obviously I’m not alone.

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Posted by: Atlas.9704

Atlas.9704

Satisfactory for the small size it was given, but if promised a “expansions worth of content” then no. Though I will give the concept of the Living Story that scale because it is constantly growing.

Flame and Frost is more like looking at part of a chapter and thinking this was the book. Things are set into motion, stuff that was introduced could come back. The Lost Shores and this most recent event are examples of such.

Overall I don’t mind the idea of some temporary content while some things are added as a permanent reminder. I hope to see elements from Flame and Frost last well past the removal of the story mission itself.

ANet is learning more and more with each part of the Living Story being released. For good or for ill I find it better than GW1’s system at the moment, heresy I know.
Don’t get me wrong I loved GW1 because it brought me into this world, but I can go back and rerun just about everything; not much changed save War in Kryta. To some that’s ideal, but to others that’s somewhat stagnant.

War in Kryta excited me because there was change to the map. It gave me a reason to complete EoTN and Prophecies because I wanted to see this stuff.

So I do applaud the idea in Living Story that some things will change, that parts of the map might be different a month or year from now because the world moves along as it should.

Should dynamic hearts or events be removed as well? Yes, why not? Why not give us new dynamic events a couple of months later? Maybe the Centaurs were finally pushed out of Queensdale. Perhaps the Maguuma Jungle has more Nightmare Court hiding in the shadows of new Sylvari colonies? I think the only thing they can’t completely remove is the Personal Story, because that’s the main narrative for players. Yes it can be opted out, but I’m unsure how they can do that successfully.

If done right Living Story can show we could have fun supplements to the game without relying completely on a expansion pack every year or so. I’m going to give this more time before I fully get behind any idea of it passing or failing because even though I didn’t enjoy Lost Shores much, I did enjoy Flame and Frost for what it did.

Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!

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Posted by: brainlessant.3641

brainlessant.3641

I just started 2 days ago, and I didnt know that F&F was a temporarily event.
I was just starting out, and didnt know what was going on.
So i played by my own pace, ignoring F&F event thinking that “Meh, I’ll do that when i get the hang of GW2”

I didnt care that F&F ended as i didnt know anything about it.

However, upon reading the content in F&F from the wiki. I got to say that I’m quite disappointed that I did not get to experience the F&F.

All i had from F&F was the achievement from the bonfire…Lol

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

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Posted by: Hoyvin.3241

Hoyvin.3241

Supposedly there are rumblings about the MF dungeon or part of it becoming a fractal. Since you’ve only been here 2 days you probably won’t understand that, but you will.

Fractals are permanent content that work like mini dungeons. Some of them a little too long to be mini, but that’s another thread. You can look them up on the wiki.

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Posted by: Atlas.9704

Atlas.9704

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

That would be akin to asking the Universe to allow you a chance to relive the 5th grade because you missed a friend’s party.

There will be other events, other stories, and you can participate in them now that you are in this game.

Of course I always welcome new Fractals as Hoyvin spoke earlier.

Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!

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Posted by: brainlessant.3641

brainlessant.3641

Maybe Anet could allow newcomers like me or future players to experience F&F in a different environment…Maybe in a server where the world is stuck in a timeloop with F&F event.

That would be akin to asking the Universe to allow you a chance to relive the 5th grade because you missed a friend’s party.

There will be other events, other stories, and you can participate in them now that you are in this game.

Of course I always welcome new Fractals as Hoyvin spoke earlier.

I dont really know exactly what Fractals is but Im assuming its like WoW’s (Please dont hurt me!!!) Caverns of Times where you replay the past events.

Still, Im quite a completionist.
The fact that I cant get 100% on certain parts of the game kinda disappoints me…
It also doesnt help that I have gotten only 1 achievement from F&F (Kindling the bonfire achievement)

I can see myself in the future:
FFFFFFFF-
99% completion rate….only thing left is F&F living story
IT BURNSSSS AHHHHHHHH