Guild Wars 2

+1 to you Zabriel. Nice to see someone is happy and not complaining on every thread they can.

This sure is constructive.

Knote.2904:

This sure is constructive.

You mean if someone gives a compliment, it isn’t constructive? Telling someone you like what they did doesn’t help them keep motivated to keep doing good?

I suppose if it isn’t complaining, people don’t see it as constructive. I can certainly see how people get jaded by reading all the negativity on these forums.

Free stuff = good patch

fail

jheryn.8390:

Knote.2904:

This sure is constructive.

You mean if someone gives a compliment, it isn’t constructive? Telling someone you like what they did doesn’t help them keep motivated to keep doing good?

I suppose if it isn’t complaining, people don’t see it as constructive. I can certainly see how people get jaded by reading all the negativity on these forums.

No, just a stab at those that say complainers aren’t constructive, that’s all. You should give your horse a break. =p

Mistakes and failure is how we learn. That’s how we improve and get better at what we do.

Compliments are OK once in awhile but those are few and far between. When there are no more complaints that’s when developers should be afraid, very afraid. That’s when their most passionate players don’t care anymore and have left completely.

Knote.2904:

This sure is constructive.

Well at least they put a reason for the thanks this time, it was for free stuff in the mail. smh

I hope all 3 of you ppl that liked this patch have fun with each other.
the rest of us will be playing something else.

free stuff = “please please play a game format we want you to play rather than a game format you want to play”

As for the patch, I mainly play ranger, guess how happy I am!

Volrath.1473:

I hope all 3 of you ppl that liked this patch have fun with each other.
the rest of us will be playing something else.

Why waste your time posting here…you should be playing something else it seems?

Boomstin.3460:

Free stuff = good patch

fail

xD

Boomstin.3460:

Free stuff = good patch

fail

Bread and games…

zabriel.4852:

Thank you for sending me free stuff on the mail and for this awesome patch! Love you guys mucho! Thanks!

Ps. Yes, this is a thank you post. ( Buzz off haters )

I’m curious…in your opinion, what was awesome about this patch? And what is your main profession?

Boomstin.3460:

Free stuff = good patch

fail

Reading comprehension.

He / she said thanks for the free stuff and a good patch, not the patch is good because of the free stuff.

I mean, it’s like clockwork at this point.

Patch day followed by irrational rage and complaining. I can’t IMAGINE why developers wouldn’t want to collaborate with the people on these forums!

bob.5680:

Volrath.1473:

I hope all 3 of you ppl that liked this patch have fun with each other.
the rest of us will be playing something else.

Why waste your time posting here…you should be playing something else it seems?

not wile I’m at work

Volrath.1473:

I hope all 3 of you ppl that liked this patch have fun with each other.
the rest of us will be playing something else.

Oh that explains all the overflow servers. LMAO!

jheryn.8390:

You mean if someone gives a compliment, it isn’t constructive? Telling someone you like what they did doesn’t help them keep motivated to keep doing good?.

No, but starting a thread by telling other players to buzz off is not the most constructive thing I’ve seen on a game forum.

Boomstin.3460:

Free stuff = good patch

fail

hey they rob us for most the drops we are supposed to get. I mean do you enjoy doing tequatl and getting 3 greens and a middle finger? You gotta have so much communication for that even and it still gives you same rewards as jormag or the other guise. 1 gold is the only thing tequatl gives the others dont.

Thank you arena net now +1 please.

“People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is. Especially watch out for the ones who tell you that nobody understands your genius.
Honestly, this is going to sound horrible, but self-doubt is one of your most powerful tools for craftsmanship. None of the designers you admire feel self-confident about their work in that way. None of them think that they are awesome. They all suffer from impostor complexes the size of the Titanic.
I am not saying that you need to lack confidence in yourself. (Heck, you’ll never put anything out if that’s the case! You need to have the arrogance to assume anyone will care in the first place). I am saying that nobody is ever done learning, and people who tell you you have arrived will give you a sense of complacency. You should never be complacent about your art.”

sirflamesword.3896:

“People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is. Especially watch out for the ones who tell you that nobody understands your genius.
Honestly, this is going to sound horrible, but self-doubt is one of your most powerful tools for craftsmanship. None of the designers you admire feel self-confident about their work in that way. None of them think that they are awesome. They all suffer from impostor complexes the size of the Titanic.
I am not saying that you need to lack confidence in yourself. (Heck, you’ll never put anything out if that’s the case! You need to have the arrogance to assume anyone will care in the first place). I am saying that nobody is ever done learning, and people who tell you you have arrived will give you a sense of complacency. You should never be complacent about your art.”

Raph Koster. Good read.

Geez people didn’t your parent teach you to say thank you?
There is nothing wrong with acknowledging something you like just as there is nothing wrong about saying why you do not like something.

Falling on someone who does the first make you look like a bunch of piranhas.

I haven’t been in the game yet to see the patch but based on forum reactions so far I can’t wait.

Skan.5301:

Raph Koster. Good read.

Ya I’m actually looking for the link to add to my sig atm.

sirflamesword.3896:

Skan.5301:

Raph Koster. Good read.

Ya I’m actually looking for the link to add to my sig atm.

Here you go.

Raph Koster: On Getting Criticism

I like the passage, as there is a lot of wisdom to be had there.

I don’t like it being used as justification by angry, bitter, spiteful fans to spit mean-spirited venom.

Morrigan.2809:

Falling on someone who does the first make you look like a bunch of piranhas.

Hmm, not sure that this is a valid comparison when the thread starts off with a jab at other players who do not share the OP’s opinion.

chemiclord.3978:

I like the passage, as there is a lot of wisdom to be had there.

I don’t like it being used by angry, bitter, spiteful fans who try to use it as justification to spit mean-spirited venom.

If that was pointed at me then, well it’s probably dead on. Sad that after 8 years with playing games made by Anet that I’ve gotten to this point though.

chemiclord.3978:

I don’t like it being used as justification by angry, bitter, spiteful fans to spit mean-spirited venom.

And it’s not any better that disillusioned, proud, white knights use it to say it’s just there for justification by those who disagree with their points of view(s).

That being said —> Raph Koster: On Getting Criticism read the whole thing. May be enlightening for a good many people on here.

sirflamesword.3896:

chemiclord.3978:

I like the passage, as there is a lot of wisdom to be had there.

I don’t like it being used by angry, bitter, spiteful fans who try to use it as justification to spit mean-spirited venom.

If that was pointed at me then, well it’s probably dead on. Sad that after 8 years with playing games made by Anet that I’ve gotten to this point though.

Wasn’t really pointed at anyone specifically.

I’ve seen variants of this sentiment from creators before (hell, I myself prescribe to the idea that no one who dislikes what I do is wrong); but at the same time, just because someone doesn’t like something you do, doesn’t mean you should drop everything to change it for them. Sometimes, you just have to be able to say, “Sorry, then this isn’t the game/story/movie/show for you. Good luck finding something you like.”

This sort of sentiment is similar to “the customer is always right”; which actually isn’t true at all. It’s an axiom that is important to keep in mind, but it’s not a hard and steady rule. Sometimes, customers can be unreasonable… and sometimes critique can be unreasonable too. Where a creator draws that line is up to them… but I think it’s important that line exists somewhere.

Ashen.2907:

Again, you might want to read the whole thing before claiming that he said something that he did not.

Lets visit the example of Living Story again:

Player A says he likes the LS updates.

Player B says he does not like the LS updates.

Which of them is wrong ?

Neither of them.

But now the next question is; which one should Arena.net listen to? It’s easy to accept any and all criticism. It’s not quite so easy to decide whether or not to act on it.

chemiclord.3978:

Ashen.2907:

Again, you might want to read the whole thing before claiming that he said something that he did not.

Lets visit the example of Living Story again:

Player A says he likes the LS updates.

Player B says he does not like the LS updates.

Which of them is wrong ?

Neither of them.

But now the next question is; which one should Arena.net listen to? It’s easy to accept any and all criticism. It’s not quite so easy to decide whether or not to act on it.

Exactly. And this is why all feedback is dangerous. Not because there is anything inherently dangerous about feedback but because acting on it/not acting on it is dangerous. Its the job of the development studio to try sifting through the feedback to navigate the best path for the game.

Zoltreez.6435:

Ashen.2907:

eisberg.2379:

Ashen.2907:

eisberg.2379:

Nope, he just lacked any kind of common sense in that area. Read a synopsis on it on another forum, and he even goes to say that all critics are right.

You might want to base your opinion on what the author wrote rather than on a synopsis posted by someone else. What you are claiming is not quite what he actually says.

I read about half of it, got to the section about positive feedback being dangerous and useless, and quit reading there. His thinking that positive feedback is dangerous and useless got SWG where?

Again, you might want to read the whole thing before claiming that he said something that he did not.

Lets visit your example of Living Story again:

Player A says he likes the LS updates.

Player B says he does not like the LS updates.

Which of them is wrong ?

those that say it should stay as temp content.

That is an answer to a question which was not asked.

Ashen.2907:

Exactly. And this is why all feedback is dangerous. Not because there is anything inherently dangerous about feedback but because acting on it/not acting on it is dangerous. Its the job of the development studio to try sifting through the feedback to navigate the best path for the game.

The problem I tend to have with fan feedback is the tendency for fans to equate “not acting” with “not listening.” When you tell someone their criticism isn’t wrong, but then don’t fix it… well, then that means you just don’t care. You’re not REALLY listening, so that means I just need to scream louder and be more insulting. If you STILL won’t listen, well then I’m just gonna throw a temper tantrum until you do!

chemiclord.3978:

Ashen.2907:

Exactly. And this is why all feedback is dangerous. Not because there is anything inherently dangerous about feedback but because acting on it/not acting on it is dangerous. Its the job of the development studio to try sifting through the feedback to navigate the best path for the game.

The problem I tend to have with fan feedback is the tendency for fans to equate “not acting” with “not listening.”

Agreed.

Then there is also the reality that no company could hope to act on every bit of feedback, no matter how good it is.

i love how a simple thank you can get spun out of control so quickly.

a compliment or one positive out of the thousand negatives doesn’t mean ANet is gonna slack, or that players are going to mysteriously quit..

ever heard of positive reinforcement? there ought to be a balance of good and bad, compliments and criticism, of which both would ideally be constructive.

Mosharn.8357:

Boomstin.3460:

Free stuff = good patch

fail

hey they rob us for most the drops we are supposed to get. I mean do you enjoy doing tequatl and getting 3 greens and a middle finger? You gotta have so much communication for that even and it still gives you same rewards as jormag or the other guise. 1 gold is the only thing tequatl gives the others dont.

Yeah, that would be mean. A good thing that the reward for a successful Tequatl fight is now so much better than you described.

Knote.2904:

jheryn.8390:

Knote.2904:

This sure is constructive.

You mean if someone gives a compliment, it isn’t constructive? Telling someone you like what they did doesn’t help them keep motivated to keep doing good?

I suppose if it isn’t complaining, people don’t see it as constructive. I can certainly see how people get jaded by reading all the negativity on these forums.

No, just a stab at those that say complainers aren’t constructive, that’s all. You should give your horse a break. =p

And you might want to pick up your bucket of rocks and step out of your glass house.

And BTW, it isn’t complainers that are the problem, it is people that are snide and hateful when they complain. They are not constructive, helpful, or useful in any way. Especially those that seem to do nothing but complain. You for example.

Ashen.2907:

jheryn.8390:

You mean if someone gives a compliment, it isn’t constructive? Telling someone you like what they did doesn’t help them keep motivated to keep doing good?.

No, but starting a thread by telling other players to buzz off is not the most constructive thing I’ve seen on a game forum.

I agree, but I have seen many, many more hater threads that say in different ways, “If you don’t agree with me you are wrong.”

Add to that, when anyone says anything good on these forums, they are ridiculed beyond belief. The OP was probably just trying to head the hate off at the pass.

jheryn.8390:

Knote.2904:

jheryn.8390:

Knote.2904:

This sure is constructive.

You mean if someone gives a compliment, it isn’t constructive? Telling someone you like what they did doesn’t help them keep motivated to keep doing good?

I suppose if it isn’t complaining, people don’t see it as constructive. I can certainly see how people get jaded by reading all the negativity on these forums.

No, just a stab at those that say complainers aren’t constructive, that’s all. You should give your horse a break. =p

And you might want to pick up your bucket of rocks and step out of your glass house.

And BTW, it isn’t complainers that are the problem, it is people that are snide and hateful when they complain. They are not constructive, helpful, or useful in any way. Especially those that seem to do nothing but complain. You for example.

I’m not complaining about anything, how dare you accuse me.

I simply stated the fact that this isn’t constructive.

Morrigan.2809:

Geez people didn’t your parent teach you to say thank you?
There is nothing wrong with acknowledging something you like just as there is nothing wrong about saying why you do not like something.

Falling on someone who does the first make you look like a bunch of piranhas.

I haven’t been in the game yet to see the patch but based on forum reactions so far I can’t wait.

No, most parents teach their children to scream ‘gimme gimme gimme’ until mommy and daddy hand over the credit card and drive their sorry butt to the mall.

Knote.2904:

I’m not complaining about anything, how dare you accuse me.

I simply stated the fact that this isn’t constructive.

It isn’t constructive to YOU maybe. But that isn’t how it was phrased. You just put it out there as a universal fact. Also you stating that it wasn’t constructive is constructive how?

Say what you want, but telling the OP that what he/she wrote isn’t constructive is just a veiled complaint about him/her posting what they did. And you with your horse comment to me is just another veiled complaint about what I said because you didn’t like my reaction to your comments.

jheryn.8390:

Knote.2904:

I’m not complaining about anything, how dare you accuse me.

I simply stated the fact that this isn’t constructive.

It isn’t constructive to YOU maybe. But that isn’t how it was phrased. You just put it out there as a universal fact. Also you stating that it wasn’t constructive is constructive how?

Say what you want, but telling the OP that what he/she wrote isn’t constructive is just a veiled complaint about him/her posting what they did. And you with your horse comment to me is just another veiled complaint about what I said because you didn’t like my reaction to your comments.

What you said isn’t constructive either.

Me bringing up the topic of being constructive reminds everyone to be constructive, and thus was somewhat constructive.

Knote.2904:

jheryn.8390:

Knote.2904:

I’m not complaining about anything, how dare you accuse me.

I simply stated the fact that this isn’t constructive.

It isn’t constructive to YOU maybe. But that isn’t how it was phrased. You just put it out there as a universal fact. Also you stating that it wasn’t constructive is constructive how?

Say what you want, but telling the OP that what he/she wrote isn’t constructive is just a veiled complaint about him/her posting what they did. And you with your horse comment to me is just another veiled complaint about what I said because you didn’t like my reaction to your comments.

What you said isn’t constructive either.

Me bringing up the topic of being constructive reminds everyone to be constructive, and thus was somewhat constructive.

Agree with knote plus one to knote !!!

Yes yes spread that link

chemiclord.3978:

But now the next question is; which one should Arena.net listen to? It’s easy to accept any and all criticism. It’s not quite so easy to decide whether or not to act on it.

Exactly.

At times something that seems bad at a first glance is good for the game in a long run. And vice versa.

Blizzard developped a few prime examples of that in wow. Examples like LFR that make the content far more accesable for a bigger percentage of the community. So at a first glance its a good thing.

However … if you look at the negative effects it had; A] a detached community B] A shorter “journey” for the average MMO player. youll notice that these outweigh the possitive effects. In fact i even dare to say that these are the two things that caused the decline in subs.

This was all due criticism from their player base. Players that kept nagging about how they paid for the game so they wanted to see everything…..even if they only played for 1 hour a month.

My point is that shaping your game based on criticism can be extremly bad for your game in the long run.

Sandpit.3467:

free stuff = “please please play a game format we want you to play rather than a game format you want to play”

I do partially agree with this statement.

Developers sometimes try to bribe people to do certain things in their game by providing free rewards. If they want more of these rewards they would have to repeat those certain things.

This tactic is known to work well. Unfortunately, one side effect is that players abandon the content completely after they have received the desired reward.

ThanatosAngel.8024:

zabriel.4852:

Thank you for sending me free stuff on the mail and for this awesome patch! Love you guys mucho! Thanks!

Ps. Yes, this is a thank you post. ( Buzz off haters )

I’m curious…in your opinion, what was awesome about this patch? And what is your main profession?

For me, Minions getting a hp buff.

I can finally play a minion master.

So rangers should be renamed as summoners now.