Guild Wars 2

“oh we don’t want berserker to be the meta anymore, you are going to need to use other gear other than zerker” -paraphrasing what a dev said, then, what do I see on the beta Raid boss? A freaking timer! that pretty much forces you to use berserker gear to deal with it (and maybe some condition to deal with the red guardian). Seriously, I hope that all the raid bosses don’t have a timer on them, that is the most annoying thing I have seen on raids, if we are doing well and coordinated, let us take as long as we want, I seriously don’t understand the need to slap a timer on all raid bosses!

Not to mention they have over 20 million health

For the first time in this forum I agree with the OP the timer isn’t a great idea, but it doesn’t mean zerker, just means that DMG high gear is still meta, could make druid pointless maybe?

A key part of playing your class well is learning how to properly do damage with it. That, after all, is the primary role of those playing the role of “DPS”.

This is just another typical case of.. well.. learn to play better. If you are doing “well and coordinated” and you are running out of time before you even come close to killing the boss, you are not doing well and coordinated.

“We don’t want berserker to be the meta anymore” does not mean “Doing damage efficiently will not be required, pressing 1 as long as you can keep everybody alive will be more than enough”

Drop-dead timers are a sign of bad design. ie, we should have expected ANet to use it.
#grr

We’re better off with a soft enrage mechanic, common to WoW/Diablo 3. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it is: attacks do more damage, effect radii get wider, more adds spawn more frequently.

That sort of design lends itself to groups that can better play the war of attrition. If healing and defense keep up, they can succeed, but it becomes more difficult to maintain. High damage groups will coast through most of the fight, relying on prevention tools before the enemy’s damage gets too severe. It serves both play styles.

There’s almost no need for an actual timer (including open world bosses, if I’m honest) in fight design. Unless there’s a bomb. Which would be hilarious.
Not to detract from the conversation at hand, but I’m musing on a boss fight now. :P

Actors: PCs, Boss, HUGE BOMB.
As the PCs fight the Boss, the Huge Bomb slowly loses life. They have to direct the boss away from the bomb, or it shortens the time available for the fight. Boss does suitably bossish things like cleaves, area effects, and such.
When the bomb explodes, it does enough damage to kill all the players, but also damages the boss by 50% of its current health and stuns it for 10 seconds. A well-timed Aegis and other invulnerability skills can prevent a party wipe.
But I digress.

But you need condi damage and people building toughness so not everyone is zerker?

torgar.4015:

For the first time in this forum I agree with the OP the timer isn’t a great idea, but it doesn’t mean zerker, just means that DMG high gear is still meta, could make druid pointless maybe?

I can see the LFG’s now: “Raid, no druids!”

No not everyone is Zerker , 60% of the 10man squad was Direct damage the rest was Sinister/ cleric tank guardian and two druids , from other sources my guildies have told me , in some groups they even used Celestial Engis too.

because it would not be worth all that extra effort forming a only zerker team , only to not be able to Sustain themselfs over the burst phases.

Glider phase Low regen or No Regen you are in the air for about 10seconds so at Minimum you’d be healed for 1.2k heavly relying on Low coodown skill 6 heals, which again is totaly counter by the Unblockable attacks.

so yes the Zerker only Meta is kinda Gone , but Zerker itself is still a Viable stat set (if you are good enough).

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

so yes the Zerker only Meta is kinda Gone , but Zerker itself is still a Viable stat set (if you are good enough).

I think people are misunderstanding what “the end of zerker meta” means. It doesn’t mean nobody will run zerker, it means more sets will be used. Making “zerker” completely useless will never become reality, and it doesn’t make any sense anyway.

You are confused…they/we just don’t want there to be a zerk ONLY meta. That doesn’t mean that no one EVER uses zerk…

Currently they are running about 4 people in heal/sustain gear for raids out of 10. About right. Not sure what your problem is…

Think of it this way, enrage timers are there to keep someone from potential soloing or duoing it. Although soft enrage timers work too, I barely see a difference really.

maddoctor.2738:

I think people are misunderstanding what “the end of zerker meta” means. It doesn’t mean nobody will run zerker, it means more sets will be used. Making “zerker” completely useless will never become reality, and it doesn’t make any sense anyway.

This.

Honestly, even if there wasn’t an enrage timer, the community push for the continuation of the zerk/sinister meta.

It’s as simple as this: If it’s possible to survive an encounter with any defensive stats, why should a group take any gear with defensive stats when pure offense will end the fight sooner?

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

No not everyone is Zerker , 60% of the 10man squad was Direct damage the rest was Sinister/ cleric tank guardian and two druids , from other sources my guildies have told me , in some groups they even used Celestial Engis too.

because it would not be worth all that extra effort forming a only zerker team , only to not be able to Sustain themselfs over the burst phases.

Glider phase Low regen or No Regen you are in the air for about 10seconds so at Minimum you’d be healed for 1.2k heavly relying on Low coodown skill 6 heals, which again is totaly counter by the Unblockable attacks.

so yes the Zerker only Meta is kinda Gone , but Zerker itself is still a Viable stat set (if you are good enough).

Sorry, but Sinister isn’t a change in the meta. It’s really just another form of zerker since it’s pure DPS with no defensive stats and it’s been in the current meta since the June 23rd patch.

Just because there are groups that brought 1 druid with them amongst 9 other zerk/sinister geared players doesn’t mean that we’ve seen any real change to the meta…especially since this is the first weekend for the raid to be out and players will likely learn to get through the encounter without even a druid eventually.

20 million health over an 8 minute fight is just a little over 4000 DPS per player in a 10 man raid. Properly buffed full bore Revanants and Engineers can deal in the neighborhood of 20,000 DPS each. Your tank shouldn’t have any problem getting over that threshold.

If you’re not able to beat the raid timer it’s because you’re dying too much or otherwise have too much downtime. If you’re actually sticking to the boss and doing damage you should have no problem meeting that threshold, regardless of build.

If l2p means replacing berserker with another cheezy hardcore mechanic (aka perma many many stacks of might)… brilliant!

Finaly people are realising what “the end of zerker meta” means.

Have fun collecting multiple ascended sets now until you’ve gathered the mats for legendary armor.

Not to mention that certain classes (ranger aka druid aka healbot) will now get to use only 1 type of set and build specific to each boss in raids.

This is so much better than being slightly less efficient in custom gear than full zerker gear, as was up till now. /sarcasm

The one case where I really hate having been right. O well, 2-3 more ascended equips isn’t that hard to get for me.

+1 to Cyninja. That’s exactly it.

Also – you need a timer otherwise the content becomes very easy – just go full tank and chip away at its health until it dies with no risks to your party and no fail chance.

Ensign.2189:

20 million health over an 8 minute fight is just a little over 4000 DPS per player in a 10 man raid. Properly buffed full bore Revanants and Engineers can deal in the neighborhood of 20,000 DPS each. Your tank shouldn’t have any problem getting over that threshold.

If you’re not able to beat the raid timer it’s because you’re dying too much or otherwise have too much downtime. If you’re actually sticking to the boss and doing damage you should have no problem meeting that threshold, regardless of build.

true, but apart from the point its doable I think timers are at least no “good design”. Even in case they add a story related event when timer ends. But then the raid should be over at all. If ppl manage to beat a boss, there’s always enough reward by beating it faster. A timer dont make content more challenging. It just cripples the learning process due to instead trying out stuff ont-the-fly you need to wipe if it fails and run again loosing you focus.

ANet said something like, “We want to end the berserker meta.” What they meant is, “We want a raid meta wherein not everyone wears berserker gear.” I suspected this as soon as the words “enrage timer” were mentioned.

What happens in trinity games? One or more players wear the best gear for tanking. One or more players wear the best gear for healing. The rest wear the best gear for doing max damage.

This should not have been a surprise to anyone.

Dunno, one can do a 30m boss fight with every defensive trait, and gear and slug threw it, it would make it too easy, despite it taking long, on the other hand this kinda forces zerker/condi meta’s out there.

But when you get down to it, people will figure out how to do it the safe way, and how to do it the quickest, with sepecific builds, classes and tactics, soon LFG’s will ask for specific classes to do specific raids, that’s how players are and always will be.

While i won’t claim that our effort was amazing, our third time, we managed to survive, and almost always get on the thing to prevent aoe in time. I was full zerker necro reaper (wich does kitten nice damage). Some others were too, we had revenant and druids too. When the timer almost ended, boss was 60% hp.

So indeed this screams ‘zerker or go home’. And I can’t agree with that. It’s already basically saying druid (kind of builds) will be useless… Not the way to go Anet.

Cyninja.2954:

Finaly people are realising what “the end of zerker meta” means.

Have fun collecting multiple ascended sets now until you’ve gathered the mats for legendary armor.

Not to mention that certain classes (ranger aka druid aka healbot) will now get to use only 1 type of set and build specific to each boss in raids.

This is so much better than being slightly less efficient in custom gear than full zerker gear, as was up till now. /sarcasm

The one case where I really hate having been right. O well, 2-3 more ascended equips isn’t that hard to get for me.

Well fortunately you arent right, as ascended is in no way required for raids, so no need to keep hating.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

While i won’t claim that our effort was amazing, our third time, we managed to survive, and almost always get on the thing to prevent aoe in time. I was full zerker necro reaper (wich does kitten nice damage). Some others were too, we had revenant and druids too. When the timer almost ended, boss was 60% hp.

So indeed this screams ‘zerker or go home’. And I can’t agree with that. It’s already basically saying druid (kind of builds) will be useless… Not the way to go Anet.

eh, multiple guilds that have completed the raid have ran at least 2 support specs (typically a guardian tank and druid… the druid being the constant in all groups that beat the raid)

Zerker is still required… but so is atleast a couple support specs….and in that case, its not 100% zerk meta at least, like the rest of PvE….

Nemitri.8172:

“oh we don’t want berserker to be the meta anymore, you are going to need to use other gear other than zerker” -paraphrasing what a dev said, then, what do I see on the beta Raid boss?

Guess what the people who killed the raid boss were using?

Hurrah for berserker gear in more than half the party!

The berserker meta is sooooo dead (NOT).

Rauderi.8706:

Drop-dead timers are a sign of bad design. ie, we should have expected ANet to use it.
#grr

We’re better off with a soft enrage mechanic, common to WoW/Diablo 3. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it is: attacks do more damage, effect radii get wider, more adds spawn more frequently.

That sort of design lends itself to groups that can better play the war of attrition. If healing and defense keep up, they can succeed, but it becomes more difficult to maintain. High damage groups will coast through most of the fight, relying on prevention tools before the enemy’s damage gets too severe. It serves both play styles.

I’d far rather see this sort of boss design than a hard timer.

Sizer.3987:

Cyninja.2954:

Finaly people are realising what “the end of zerker meta” means.

Have fun collecting multiple ascended sets now until you’ve gathered the mats for legendary armor.

Not to mention that certain classes (ranger aka druid aka healbot) will now get to use only 1 type of set and build specific to each boss in raids.

This is so much better than being slightly less efficient in custom gear than full zerker gear, as was up till now. /sarcasm

The one case where I really hate having been right. O well, 2-3 more ascended equips isn’t that hard to get for me.

Well fortunately you arent right, as ascended is in no way required for raids, so no need to keep hating.

Sure, keep telling yourself that. True, it’s not required for the first couple of bosses but only recommended. It’s near required for the last/final bosses.

Now how many casual players with subpar equipment do you expect to perform adequately in a raid enviroment and clear the content in exotics? Refering to casual players is not ment derogatory in this case (I rarely think being casual in a game is a bad thing, on the contrary). It’s more refering to players who neither had the time or intent of getting ascended gear due to different constraints (time, family, w/e).

Not saying it won’t happen, but let’s be honest. It’s not like games haven’t been down this road before. Every little bit up helps, especially when content is not on farm status.

Cyninja.2954:

Sizer.3987:

Cyninja.2954:

Finaly people are realising what “the end of zerker meta” means.

Have fun collecting multiple ascended sets now until you’ve gathered the mats for legendary armor.

Not to mention that certain classes (ranger aka druid aka healbot) will now get to use only 1 type of set and build specific to each boss in raids.

This is so much better than being slightly less efficient in custom gear than full zerker gear, as was up till now. /sarcasm

The one case where I really hate having been right. O well, 2-3 more ascended equips isn’t that hard to get for me.

Well fortunately you arent right, as ascended is in no way required for raids, so no need to keep hating.

Sure, keep telling yourself that. True, it’s not required for the first couple of bosses but only recommended. It’s near required for the last/final bosses.

Now how many casual players with subpar equipment do you expect to perform adequately in a raid enviroment and clear the content in exotics? Refering to casual players is not ment derogatory in this case (I rarely think being casual in a game is a bad thing, on the contrary). It’s more refering to players who neither had the time or intent of getting ascended gear due to different constraints (time, family, w/e).

Not saying it won’t happen, but let’s be honest. It’s not like games haven’t been down this road before. Every little bit up helps, especially when content is not on farm status.

And how well would the hardcore players perform in exotics compared to the casuals? Skill/coordination will play a far larger part in the DPS output of a group than the difference between exotic and ascended.

Zerker job is to beat the enrage timer but if raid is well made there are other class´s needed to like condi/ heals etc.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Sizer.3987:

Cyninja.2954:

Finaly people are realising what “the end of zerker meta” means.

Have fun collecting multiple ascended sets now until you’ve gathered the mats for legendary armor.

Not to mention that certain classes (ranger aka druid aka healbot) will now get to use only 1 type of set and build specific to each boss in raids.

This is so much better than being slightly less efficient in custom gear than full zerker gear, as was up till now. /sarcasm

The one case where I really hate having been right. O well, 2-3 more ascended equips isn’t that hard to get for me.

Well fortunately you arent right, as ascended is in no way required for raids, so no need to keep hating.

Sure, keep telling yourself that. True, it’s not required for the first couple of bosses but only recommended. It’s near required for the last/final bosses.

Now how many casual players with subpar equipment do you expect to perform adequately in a raid enviroment and clear the content in exotics? Refering to casual players is not ment derogatory in this case (I rarely think being casual in a game is a bad thing, on the contrary). It’s more refering to players who neither had the time or intent of getting ascended gear due to different constraints (time, family, w/e).

Not saying it won’t happen, but let’s be honest. It’s not like games haven’t been down this road before. Every little bit up helps, especially when content is not on farm status.

And how well would the hardcore players perform in exotics compared to the casuals? Skill/coordination will play a far larger part in the DPS output of a group than the difference between exotic and ascended.

Since I stated that I see casual in this case as someone who has less time invested in the game, I’d assume better. Then again I’ve seen players with tons of hours played perform horribly.

It’s not about how will every single one will perform, but what is/can be expected of a majority of the player base. Here, every little edge helps (and ascended gear with 10-12% more stats versus exotic is an edge), that can’t be questioned.

SuinegTsol.1729:

If ppl manage to beat a boss, there’s always enough reward by beating it faster. A timer dont make content more challenging.

Raid content typically has a one week lockout timer. Assuming the rewards are really attractive (and legendary armor is pretty attractive), it really wouldn’t make much difference if a raid boss dies in 8 minutes or 20 minutes – it’s still done for the week and you got your rewards. There would be a lot of incentive to prioritize ‘no wipes’ above everything else – as long as you don’t wipe you’ll eventually win and get your reward – and going a bit faster wouldn’t make a big deal.

I think it makes sense to have fairly generous DPS requirements – 4k DPS per player is extremely doable if you aren’t spending huge amounts of time dead/ressing/running around at low health/kitten around because you are bad. Figure that good, experienced teams will be completing these bosses with 3, maybe 4 minutes left on the timer – is it really such an unreasonable requirement?

Two things:

1. While I’m not exactly a fan of the timer, I like the requirement for a fast fight. Why? First of all, long fights greatly increase the risk that someone needs to leave or cannot allocate enough time to do a “raid night.” Secondly, not everyone should ever have to tank, which brings me to:

2. It’s a great thing that the Zerker role isn’t dead. It’s good if it isn’t efficient for everyone to use that gear, but it should never be made so that nobody can use that gear. Tanks wouldn’t have a role if everyone had to tank. In cases where everyone has to tank, it’s pretty much a slower version of a Zerker fight. The tanks aren’t necessarily doing anything for their team if they have no squishies to protect or mechanics to mitigate.

Nemitri.8172:

“oh we don’t want berserker to be the meta anymore, you are going to need to use other gear other than zerker” -paraphrasing what a dev said, then, what do I see on the beta Raid boss? A freaking timer! that pretty much forces you to use berserker gear to deal with it (and maybe some condition to deal with the red guardian). Seriously, I hope that all the raid bosses don’t have a timer on them, that is the most annoying thing I have seen on raids, if we are doing well and coordinated, let us take as long as we want, I seriously don’t understand the need to slap a timer on all raid bosses!

It’s a lazy and easy design mechanic. Pressure can be applied in so many more interesting ways than an enrage timer. How very dull.

tuck.2719:

Rauderi.8706:

Drop-dead timers are a sign of bad design. ie, we should have expected ANet to use it.
#grr

We’re better off with a soft enrage mechanic, common to WoW/Diablo 3. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it is: attacks do more damage, effect radii get wider, more adds spawn more frequently.

That sort of design lends itself to groups that can better play the war of attrition. If healing and defense keep up, they can succeed, but it becomes more difficult to maintain. High damage groups will coast through most of the fight, relying on prevention tools before the enemy’s damage gets too severe. It serves both play styles.

I’d far rather see this sort of boss design than a hard timer.

I’d rather see something original, rather than a timer. Really? Is that the best they could come up with?

Hmmm I haven’t gotten into raids too much to know what it’ll be like if time ran out. Does the boss activate a super move that would wipe the squad in an instant? If not, then yeah, a timer feels really cheap.

Timer is likely there because they don’t want you to win simply by attrition.

People have often applauded Queen’s Gauntlet (e,g, Liadri) for being great challenges. And yet, they had timers.

Zerker was never supposed to go away completely, i have no idea why people think that it ever was.

What was broken about gw2 was that only power dmg, only zerker stats mattered in pve. Now conditions are important too, and so is healing, and some tanking. Not to mention the importance of cc too.

Zerker meta is over, people can play different specs and have different roles.

Ofcourse damage dealers will keep on dealing damage with the most damage heavy stats.

WTF PEOPLE

Ayrilana.1396:

Timer is likely there because they don’t want you to win simply by attrition.

People have often applauded Queen’s Gauntlet (e,g, Liadri) for being great challenges. And yet, they had timers.

Why is a timer any better than other options? Skill over time is not as worthy? An enrage timer is just a lazy mechanic.

Gathslan.1870:

Zerker was never supposed to go away completely, i have no idea why people think that it ever was.

What was broken about gw2 was that only power dmg, only zerker stats mattered in pve. Now conditions are important too, and so is healing, and some tanking. Not to mention the importance of cc too.

Zerker meta is over, people can play different specs and have different roles.

Ofcourse damage dealers will keep on dealing damage with the most damage heavy stats.

WTF PEOPLE

The difference is, the other stat combos were possible to get played even if they were not ideal or optimal. If you wanted to play clerics in dungeons, sure you could, it would just take longer. Same goes for condition damage.

The new meta will not allow for such freedom. It will require condition damage, direct damage and healing on certain classes. This has nothing to do with optimal or suboptimal any more, it’s just required now.

See how that is more restiricting?

You aren’t doing well if you hit the enrage timer, thats the point of an enrage timer. Designed to force you to bring higher damage specs so you can’t just cruise through with 10 tanks.

MashMash.1645:

tuck.2719:

Rauderi.8706:

Drop-dead timers are a sign of bad design. ie, we should have expected ANet to use it.
#grr

We’re better off with a soft enrage mechanic, common to WoW/Diablo 3. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it is: attacks do more damage, effect radii get wider, more adds spawn more frequently.

That sort of design lends itself to groups that can better play the war of attrition. If healing and defense keep up, they can succeed, but it becomes more difficult to maintain. High damage groups will coast through most of the fight, relying on prevention tools before the enemy’s damage gets too severe. It serves both play styles.

I’d far rather see this sort of boss design than a hard timer.

I’d rather see something original, rather than a timer. Really? Is that the best they could come up with?

Soft enrage is merely one way, but there needs to be a way for the players to lose a war of attrition. Progressively harder/less healable fight, the object the players are protecting gets destroyed for not being adequately protected, …something. Otherwise, as described above, they all roll Nomad and healface their way through it all.

Ayrilana.1396:

Timer is likely there because they don’t want you to win simply by attrition.

People have often applauded Queen’s Gauntlet (e,g, Liadri) for being great challenges. And yet, they had timers.

Actually, I wasn’t fond of the drop-and-die timer. I obviously don’t speak for everyone, and I still agree the Queen’s Gauntlet was probably the best test of skill the game has seen. Not the best it could have been, as it favored (as usual) running Zerk to beat the clock and defense didn’t matter because of excessive damage kills.

/shrug
But that’s still what I expect out of ANet’s lazyish combat design. Run zerk/sinister because defensive stats don’t matter. OHKOs and meatwalls of HP. At least the OHKOs are getting more interesting with the jump rope. :P

MashMash.1645:

Ayrilana.1396:

Timer is likely there because they don’t want you to win simply by attrition.

People have often applauded Queen’s Gauntlet (e,g, Liadri) for being great challenges. And yet, they had timers.

Why is a timer any better than other options? Skill over time is not as worthy? An enrage timer is just a lazy mechanic.

How’s winning by attrition skill?

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Timer is likely there because they don’t want you to win simply by attrition.

People have often applauded Queen’s Gauntlet (e,g, Liadri) for being great challenges. And yet, they had timers.

Actually, I wasn’t fond of the drop-and-die timer. I obviously don’t speak for everyone, and I still agree the Queen’s Gauntlet was probably the best test of skill the game has seen. Not the best it could have been, as it favored (as usual) running Zerk to beat the clock and defense didn’t matter because of excessive damage kills.

/shrug
But that’s still what I expect out of ANet’s lazyish combat design. Run zerk/sinister because defensive stats don’t matter. OHKOs and meatwalls of HP. At least the OHKOs are getting more interesting with the jump rope. :P

The issue with removing the timer is how can you incorporate a way for players to fail?

Ayrilana.1396:

How’s winning by attrition skill?

When your raid design is littered with OHKOs and other do-or-fail mechanics, succeeding at those mechanics for a longer period of time is, actually, skill based.

The issue with removing the timer is how can you incorporate a way for players to fail?

If Atari era game designers can figure this out…

Progressive difficulty. I described it above, using the trendy term “soft enrage” as an example. The penalty for failing a mechanic is a harder fight. Fail enough times, and then it’s Game Over.

Having a timer for no good reason? Lame. And by “good reason,” I mean making the mechanics fit the narrative.

Current raid:
/watchtap
8 minutes up, everyone die, lolol

Good raid:
The raid begins at “daybreak”. The players have until “night” to invade the fortress and defeat the leaders. Should they fail, Mordremoth’s minions flood the fortress, closing in on the players and hunting them relentlessly. Can the Pact finish the mission before the fort is overrun? How can they fight off waves of minions and the powerful leaders? Be swift, for nightfall means certain failure.

Point is, I’m not saying get rid of timed battles, but give those timers legitimate meaning. If the players can fight the war of attrition that long, they deserve to win.

Cyninja.2954:

Gathslan.1870:

Zerker was never supposed to go away completely, i have no idea why people think that it ever was.

What was broken about gw2 was that only power dmg, only zerker stats mattered in pve. Now conditions are important too, and so is healing, and some tanking. Not to mention the importance of cc too.

Zerker meta is over, people can play different specs and have different roles.

Ofcourse damage dealers will keep on dealing damage with the most damage heavy stats.

WTF PEOPLE

The difference is, the other stat combos were possible to get played even if they were not ideal or optimal. If you wanted to play clerics in dungeons, sure you could, it would just take longer. Same goes for condition damage.

The new meta will not allow for such freedom. It will require condition damage, direct damage and healing on certain classes. This has nothing to do with optimal or suboptimal any more, it’s just required now.

See how that is more restiricting?

Hard fights will always require a certain amount of dps, healing, and so forth. So no it is not restricting, it is how hard fights are made.

A raid cannot be hard while at the same time allowing people to run stat combinations and specs that they pulled out of their kitten while blindfolded no less. And just because you CAN run something, does not mean people WILL.

Sure you can do dungeons in the most stupid specs out there, and that is why they are so stupidly easy, and raids cannot be that. And even so, 90% of people run with zerker so they can clear that easy content as fast as possible.

Hard= requires something from you, be that damage, group support or the capability to CC/tank

So not restrictive, just challenging content.

Gathslan.1870:

Hard fights will always require a certain amount of dps, healing, and so forth. So no it is not restricting, it is how hard fights are made.

A raid cannot be hard while at the same time allowing people to run stat combinations and specs that they pulled out of their kitten while blindfolded no less. And just because you CAN run something, does not mean people WILL.

Sure you can do dungeons in the most stupid specs out there, and that is why they are so stupidly easy, and raids cannot be that. And even so, 90% of people run with zerker so they can clear that easy content as fast as possible.

Hard= requires something from you, be that damage, group support or the capability to CC/tank

So not restrictive, just challenging content.

I absolutely disagree. What I would agree to is that balancing content around trinity is a lot easier than without trinity.

That being said, the notion of hard or challenging content requiring anything of what you said just shows how brainwashed you’ve become of trinity MMOs.

There are enough challenging games that do not rely on trinity to produce interesting and challenging content. Now having to adapt some of those ideas to work in an MMO, that is the true challenge.

There is nothing hard about having damage numbers inflated as to force groups to bring along healers. That’s simply implemented to offer different kinds of playstyles for people, but has nothing to do with how hard an encounter is.

And no, the new content is more restrictive in what people can and will have to play. There is no arguing around it. You can call it challenging or what ever you want (until people have learned these mechanics aswell and have adapted and the challenging part has gone out the window). It’s now content that by design restricts players, which was not the case until now.

Sinister isn’t berserker – meta destroyed \o/

maybe sinister isn’t berserker but it is still glass, zealot is glass as well (IMHO)

I expect

• sinister
• berserker
• zealot
  to be the " holy trinity" :P

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

maybe sinister isn’t berserker but it is still glass, zealot is glass as well (IMHO)

I expect

• sinister
• berserker
• zealot
  to be the " holy trinity" :P

Don’t forget one guy with Knight/Cleric or the like to have high toughness in order to control the boss aggro…. you’ll have the new …. what the word for trinity with 4 things, tetranity maybe ? :p

What’s wrong with winning by attrition?

Serious question.

God I hate timers.

Anet should design more bosses like the molten duo who can be holy hell if your DPS is too low if it intends to enforce DPS checks.

nekretaal.6485:

What’s wrong with winning by attrition?

Serious question.

God I hate timers.

Anet should design more bosses like the molten duo who can be holy hell if your DPS is too low if it intends to enforce DPS checks.

Because it requires little skill.