John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
The Argument for Tengu/a new race
Another complication that a new race brings, aside from having to re-create all existing armor skins for it, is that it increases the time that it takes to develop new armor skins.
Currently every armor piece requires 30 different, although similar, skins (race x armor weight x gender). A new race would add an additional six skins needed for each new armor piece (36 for a full set). They’ve said that creating armor skins is already resource intensive as it is right now.
I think that you might have misunderstood my posts. You most definitely misunderstood the part of my post that you quoted.
I was arguing against including anything beyond aesthetics and roleplaying to justify a new playable race because those elements could be added without it.
I’ve also said that it’s up to Anet as to whether the benefits that a new playable race brings is worth the cost. Resources are finite. If resources are spent on one thing then they cannot be spent no something else.
And the last paragraph of what you quoted addresses this. The very point of bringing in more races and lore and visual looks is why a new race is desired and would attract players…so we should avoid adding such features?
And again, the resource argument ad infinitum. If you agree that it’s up to Anet as to whether to add a certain feature or not, then there’s no reason to explain that resources are finite. How is me asking/suggesting a feature be added to the game assuming Anet has infinite resources? And how is you quoting the effort involved in adding such a feature make you more knowledgeable of what features are best to add to the game?
I didn’t realize that adding something to the game wasn’t a change.
Because it’s not. It’s an addition. Adding a weapon skin to the gemstore isn’t changing the status quo. Adding a new jumping puzzle doesn’t change the status quo. Adding more maps to explore doesn’t change the status quo.
I do have suggestions to change the status quo but that isn’t for this thread.
It’s clear that for you it’s a matter of faith that adding a new race is a good business decision; there’s nothing that anyone can say that is going to change your mind. Thus it’s ironic that you’re accusing critics of adhering to some sort of gospel.
Why would you think I can make sound business decisions for a business I don’t have intimate knowledge of and hard numbers for? Do you think you can?
The irony is that I’d be on your side: I, too, would like more races in the game. The difference is that I’m open to the possibility that what I want might not be practical, that there are other equally interesting ideas that might make more sense to implement.
There is a saying: “Nice guys finish last,” or “The squeaky wheel gets the oil.” While it’s good to be practical when requesting a business to offer a product, being too compromising and forgiving gets you stepped on and ignored while those that exploit good faith get what they want or at the least a lower price. The cux of this all is that we’ve now equated a feature that hasn’t been removed from the table and could have even been an original intended addition as being impractical. I get it, you’re a realist and it’s easier to set your expectations low but do you feel right bringing everyone else’s expectations down with you? We should all just want the same thing and put our collective desire toward the common denominator for the better possibility of a desired outcome?
I’d rather have some other content added to the game, rather than a new race. It doesn’t feel all that different, to me, to play the same content, just with a different character.
I’d rather have something like player housing/guild halls-for-one/new maps/new stories/new collections/new APs and rewards….gee, lots of things before a new race. Especially if it means a new race takes the place of anything else.
Another complication that a new race brings, aside from having to re-create all existing armor skins for it, is that it increases the time that it takes to develop new armor skins.
Currently every armor piece requires 30 different, although similar, skins (race x armor weight x gender). A new race would add an additional six skins needed for each new armor piece (36 for a full set). They’ve said that creating armor skins is already resource intensive as it is right now.
Yeah but we should sink more resources into making more armor and faster! It doesn’t matter that a small minority of the players will likely ever wear these armor sets or even pieces either because it’s locked behind content they don’t want to play, some combination of that and RNG, or they simply don’t like the look. It doesn’t matter that it may take upwards of 9 months to make, just pour more resources into it anyways! Because it’s armor!
Another complication that a new race brings, aside from having to re-create all existing armor skins for it, is that it increases the time that it takes to develop new armor skins.
Currently every armor piece requires 30 different, although similar, skins (race *x* armor weight *x* gender). A new race would add an additional six skins needed for each new armor piece (36 for a full set). They’ve said that creating armor skins is already resource intensive as it is right now.
To you and everyone else who’s argumenting regards the armor part with Tengu.
We’ll never get armor parts ever again, not from gem store nor from the actual base game anymore.
ANet said that armor will only be released within expansion packs. A few armor pieces such as gloves, helmets and shoulders are indeed released in gem store and through living world, but not actual fully armors.
Now, since they’re not really creating fully armors nowadays, this could be a nice opportunity for them to re-skin and re-model all the existing armor to match Tengu bodies.
_________________
To me, a new added race would be something fresh, something new, something many of us has been requesting since year 1.
The Quetzal (HoT’s Tengu tribe) was literally a huge improvement comparing to the Vanilla Tengu NPCs. New bone structure, additional face details and higher texture to their feathers.
This could be a good thing whenever ANet will decide to focus on Canthan story and it’s expansion, and lore. Since we all know Tengu is Canthan based creatures and since we know so little about them ANet could really create something nice from this.
Since we’re going to Elona in our upcoming expansion, I am hoping for our 3rd expansion we’ll be heading to Cantha, that will include Tengu as playable race and we’ll learn and even meet the water Elder Dragon, Bubbles.
|GW1 2008~|GW2 BETA player|Separatist|Nightmare Court|Ebonhawke|Ascalon|White Mantle|71 characters|
(edited by Alga.6498)
I didn’t realize that adding something to the game wasn’t a change.
Because it’s not. It’s an addition. Adding a weapon skin to the gemstore isn’t changing the status quo. Adding a new jumping puzzle doesn’t change the status quo. Adding more maps to explore doesn’t change the status quo.
Read what you wrote again. You’ve compared adding new weapon skins (which they do every month or three) to adding a new race (which they have never done).
It’s clear that for you it’s a matter of faith that adding a new race is a good business decision; there’s nothing that anyone can say that is going to change your mind. Thus it’s ironic that you’re accusing critics of adhering to some sort of gospel.
Why would you think I can make sound business decisions for a business I don’t have intimate knowledge of and hard numbers for? Do you think you can?
I’m not asking you to make a business decision. I’m suggesting that you consider the economic factors when claiming that this is likely to happen or that it’s going to be good for the game. If you want to opt out of discussing practical considerations, then stop invoking them in your argument and just say, “I’d pay extra for a new race, especially if it was Tengu.”
You don’t need “hard numbers” to itemize the effort involved in adding a new race as it would be in this game:
- New personal story
- New home city & instance
- New voice actors
- New dialogues
- New racial skills
- New cultural weapons & armor
- Retrofitting existing stories, skins to work with the new race
There are ways to reduce the work of many of the above, but no way to rule them all out (especially not if you expect ANet to do a good job). For each one, there are other, existing interests that would use the same resources, even if we don’t know exactly how many.
For example, a new story plus a new map is what we get from Living World episodes (for the last year); that compares unfavorably to the new personal stories & instances, which aren’t usable multiple times per toon, as the LS maps are.
The irony is that I’d be on your side: I, too, would like more races in the game. The difference is that I’m open to the possibility that what I want might not be practical, that there are other equally interesting ideas that might make more sense to implement.
There is a saying: “Nice guys finish last,” or “The squeaky wheel gets the oil.” While it’s good to be practical when requesting a business to offer a product, being too compromising and forgiving gets you stepped on and ignored while those that exploit good faith get what they want or at the least a lower price. The cux of this all is that we’ve now equated a feature that hasn’t been removed from the table and could have even been an original intended addition as being impractical. I get it, you’re a realist and it’s easier to set your expectations low but do you feel right bringing everyone else’s expectations down with you? We should all just want the same thing and put our collective desire toward the common denominator for the better possibility of a desired outcome?
I have no problem if you would have written, “I’d like to see a new race, especially if it’s Tengu.” I too, would love to see a new race (although, not as much if it were Tengu). I’m willing to leave it at that. Are you?
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
I didn’t realize that adding something to the game wasn’t a change.
Because it’s not. It’s an addition. Adding a weapon skin to the gemstore isn’t changing the status quo. Adding a new jumping puzzle doesn’t change the status quo. Adding more maps to explore doesn’t change the status quo.
Read what you wrote again. You’ve compared adding new weapon skins (which they do every month or three) to adding a new race (which they have never done).
That’s still not changing the status quo. Adding something new (like gliding) changed the status quo. Adding more of something we have a current variety of, regardless of if they expanded on it in the past or not doesn’t change the requirements of that addition. Its so within the status quo, you’re able to project the necessary elements for it and gauge the the intensity of the needed resources.
You’re not using the term right.
It’s clear that for you it’s a matter of faith that adding a new race is a good business decision; there’s nothing that anyone can say that is going to change your mind. Thus it’s ironic that you’re accusing critics of adhering to some sort of gospel.
Why would you think I can make sound business decisions for a business I don’t have intimate knowledge of and hard numbers for? Do you think you can?
I’m not asking you to make a business decision. I’m suggesting that you consider the economic factors when claiming that this is likely to happen or that it’s going to be good for the game. If you want to opt out of discussing practical considerations, then stop invoking them in your argument and just say, “I’d pay extra for a new race, especially if it was Tengu.”
You literally state me having faith in a business decision contradicts my statements about the opposing arguments. I have made no business decision to contradict what i stated besides saying i want a feature to be added to the game and your arguments regarding resource allocation hinges on what you want vs what other people want. I have no qualms with other people wanting more of something else so not being on board with such additions, but some arguments go further than that.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, people want different things to different degrees. As adults, we understand this is everyday life but this is forgotten on the internet for some reason.
The irony is that I’d be on your side: I, too, would like more races in the game. The difference is that I’m open to the possibility that what I want might not be practical, that there are other equally interesting ideas that might make more sense to implement.
There is a saying: “Nice guys finish last,” or “The squeaky wheel gets the oil.” While it’s good to be practical when requesting a business to offer a product, being too compromising and forgiving gets you stepped on and ignored while those that exploit good faith get what they want or at the least a lower price. The cux of this all is that we’ve now equated a feature that hasn’t been removed from the table and could have even been an original intended addition as being impractical. I get it, you’re a realist and it’s easier to set your expectations low but do you feel right bringing everyone else’s expectations down with you? We should all just want the same thing and put our collective desire toward the common denominator for the better possibility of a desired outcome?
I have no problem if you would have written, “I’d like to see a new race, especially if it’s Tengu.” I too, would love to see a new race (although, not as much if it were Tengu). I’m willing to leave it at that. Are you?
I have no qualms agreeing, disagreeing, arguing, critiquing and suggesting. Being civil is simple. If you want to state your piece, don’t think you’ll be immune to criticising. Again, the resource allocation argument amounts to “this is what i want and I’ll put it over what you want”. It’s fine, but ultimately just shuts down actual discussion. Is that what you want? To wash your hands of this thread? I personally would like to discuss ways to facilitate adding a new race, but the resource allocation argument seems to be at odds with an even critical discussion on the matter.
I think that you might have misunderstood my posts. You most definitely misunderstood the part of my post that you quoted.
I was arguing against including anything beyond aesthetics and roleplaying to justify a new playable race because those elements could be added without it.
I’ve also said that it’s up to Anet as to whether the benefits that a new playable race brings is worth the cost. Resources are finite. If resources are spent on one thing then they cannot be spent no something else.
And the last paragraph of what you quoted addresses this. The very point of bringing in more races and lore and visual looks is why a new race is desired and would attract players…so we should avoid adding such features?
And again, the resource argument ad infinitum. If you agree that it’s up to Anet as to whether to add a certain feature or not, then there’s no reason to explain that resources are finite. How is me asking/suggesting a feature be added to the game assuming Anet has infinite resources? And how is you quoting the effort involved in adding such a feature make you more knowledgeable of what features are best to add to the game?
I had already addressed the point of it potentially attracting new players in a previous post. If someone currently has no interest in this game, how is adding Tengu, going to attract players? It’s like if WoW added crocodiles as a playable race. People that haven’t played it yet are unlikely to suddenly start playing.
The finite vs infinite resources probably wasn’t stated by you but by the other person. I’m not arguing what should or shouldn’t be added but about what should and shouldn’t be considered when trying to argue one way or another. I personally don’t care if a new race is added.
I had already addressed the point of it potentially attracting new players in a previous post. If someone currently has no interest in this game, how is adding Tengu, going to attract players? It’s like if WoW added crocodiles as a playable race. People that haven’t played it yet are unlikely to suddenly start playing.
Well, you’re wrong. I got into WoW cause “Wow, you can play as a huge werewolf! Awesome!” And don’t start on pandas. Pandas are not cool. Werewolves are, as well as big samurai-birds. If Mists of Pandaria featured giant ninja were-grizzly bears as a playable race the sales would have just skyrocketed.
By the way, crocodiles are fine too. But dinosaurs would fit better. People love them, people want them.
I had already addressed the point of it potentially attracting new players in a previous post. If someone currently has no interest in this game, how is adding Tengu, going to attract players? It’s like if WoW added crocodiles as a playable race. People that haven’t played it yet are unlikely to suddenly start playing.
Well, you’re wrong. I got into WoW cause “Wow, you can play as a huge werewolf! Awesome!” And don’t start on pandas. Pandas are not cool. Werewolves are, as well as big samurai-birds. If Mists of Pandaria featured giant ninja were-grizzly bears as a playable race the sales would have just skyrocketed.
By the way, crocodiles are fine too. But dinosaurs would fit better. People love them, people want them.
Especially dinosaurs with lasers! OoO
I had already addressed the point of it potentially attracting new players in a previous post. If someone currently has no interest in this game, how is adding Tengu, going to attract players? It’s like if WoW added crocodiles as a playable race. People that haven’t played it yet are unlikely to suddenly start playing.
Well, you’re wrong. I got into WoW cause “Wow, you can play as a huge werewolf! Awesome!” And don’t start on pandas. Pandas are not cool. Werewolves are, as well as big samurai-birds. If Mists of Pandaria featured giant ninja were-grizzly bears as a playable race the sales would have just skyrocketed.
By the way, crocodiles are fine too. But dinosaurs would fit better. People love them, people want them.
So if some random game you had no interest in suddenly added a new race, you’d suddenly be interested in it? Sure…
Well, you’re wrong. I got into WoW cause “Wow, you can play as a huge werewolf! Awesome!” And don’t start on pandas. Pandas are not cool. Werewolves are, as well as big samurai-birds. If Mists of Pandaria featured giant ninja were-grizzly bears as a playable race the sales would have just skyrocketed.
By the way, crocodiles are fine too. But dinosaurs would fit better. People love them, people want them.
The werewolves almost pulled me in, too. I had no real desire to play WoW before then, but… werewolves!
If GW2 hadn’t had charr, I doubt I would have given it a second look. Humans, elves, dwarves… yawn. But when you see something like a charr, wargen, or tengu on the screen, it catches people’s attention. That’s a good thing, and it does help to pull in some more players.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
I think that you might have misunderstood my posts. You most definitely misunderstood the part of my post that you quoted.
I was arguing against including anything beyond aesthetics and roleplaying to justify a new playable race because those elements could be added without it.
I’ve also said that it’s up to Anet as to whether the benefits that a new playable race brings is worth the cost. Resources are finite. If resources are spent on one thing then they cannot be spent no something else.
And the last paragraph of what you quoted addresses this. The very point of bringing in more races and lore and visual looks is why a new race is desired and would attract players…so we should avoid adding such features?
And again, the resource argument ad infinitum. If you agree that it’s up to Anet as to whether to add a certain feature or not, then there’s no reason to explain that resources are finite. How is me asking/suggesting a feature be added to the game assuming Anet has infinite resources? And how is you quoting the effort involved in adding such a feature make you more knowledgeable of what features are best to add to the game?
I had already addressed the point of it potentially attracting new players in a previous post. If someone currently has no interest in this game, how is adding Tengu, going to attract players? It’s like if WoW added crocodiles as a playable race. People that haven’t played it yet are unlikely to suddenly start playing.
The finite vs infinite resources probably wasn’t stated by you but by the other person. I’m not arguing what should or shouldn’t be added but about what should and shouldn’t be considered when trying to argue one way or another. I personally don’t care if a new race is added.
I didn’t say “new players”, just players in general. That could be new players, vets, prior players who quit, player who are f2p, etc. Why concern yourself with the viability of a feature with just one subset of player when any of them could put down cash on your product depending on the features it offers?
But the point i was making is, the more robust and intruiging you make the feature, in this case, the amount of detail paid to the race in all its fascets, the stronger your argument IF you ignore how much more attention you attract for the effort.
At some point, we could speculate on ideas to alleviate some of the work involved through work arounds in so far as a simple model swap, which would be boring.
I found the OP’s proposition to be riddled with arguments in favor of said proposition that amounted to little more than wordy versions of, “I like it.” I did not find these arguments convincing. However, I did find his characterization of Asura as a “beast race” interesting. I find myself in agreement with the OP on that point, but not the one that beast races are appealing in general. However, I’m sure that most Asura, did they really exist, would return that they are the only non-beast race in Tyria …. the little rats.
If they can’t:
*Work on personal stories to make them actually matter.
*Rework Shaitan battle.
*Take a look back at dungeons.
Do you really think they’ll even try to add a new race?