The Death of Alts...
Ok. But ascribing one of the seven deadly sins to someone is not generally a good way to have a conversation.
For illustrative purposes only here is the counter example, “Why shouldn’t I get two rewards for two characters. You could get two rewards also if you weren’t too lazy to level up an alt.”
Amen. Lazy is saying no one should have more then you cause you don’t want to do what they did to get it. Isn’t easy gearing up alts, or cheap. Much less making it so that it takes a solid month to make enough fused crystals for one set of armour, for eg, 2 if you want jewelry too, 3 or 4 if you want multiple weapon sets so you don’t get bored with using just one swap set. PER TOON.
Which is true ONLY for celestial armor, which didn’t even exist in the game two months ago. Don’t wear celestial armor, there’s plenty of other options out there.
Just a matter of perspective.
You say they are killing playing alts because you can’t do everything every day on each of your characters. I say these changes encourage playing alts because you can do everything everyday from any of your characters.
A lot of people play alts for the alternate story, race, and/or class which results in a different play experience which helps keep the game fresh. Not everyone’s sole focus is on the “bling”
Diabel Zwierze/Ranger
80’s – Necro/War/Ele/Guard
80’s – Necro/War/Ele/Guard
It’s true that you can never please everyone, but I feel this wouldn’t be as big of a problem if players had options for ascended gear that wasn’t strictly time gated.
. . . there are options, for the rings at least, to just get lucky. From what I recall they dropped “like candy” off Fractal runs. The back pieces are grindariffic, but you can get that stuff without time-gating.
The necklaces and the accessories are currently time-gated, with the neckaces requiring at least 20 Laurels (and 250 Badges of Honor from WvW or your Achievement Reward Chests), and accessories requiring 12 Guild Commendations (minimum of two weeks of doing all guild missions).
But after all that?
Yeah, the way Ascended was handled was really kind of a drag. I wish it’d been in from day one and not patched in, because THEN I expect it could have been smoothed out later into something much nicer rather than patched in one phase at a time.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Yeah, was talking mostly of the amulets and mostly accessories since you need 2, making it a full month. Rings aren’t much of a problem. Although wanting it to drop isn’t very reliable since what you get is random if you get one at all and it’s still part of the daily reward. You can get a pristine relic for every 10 levels you’ve unlocked though, so it’s not too bad.
Hopefully the boost to 500 in each craft will allow tradable ascended items to be made though.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
For me the main thing that is alt unfriendly is WvW ranks as their effects do make a material difference in game play and they are virtually open ended so you are effectively gimping your potential if you play multi toons.
Lurch
Gandara
Gandara
When you play a lot of alts because you like variation, there is a limit to that and that’s because of something called Diminishing Returns…no not the MF thing, but the thing where repeating content gets less and less interesting as you do it more often.
When you have 2 characters, this is generally not an issue, but if you want to say play one of each class then the leveling process does get tedious after a few characters. Generally MMO makers understand this and therefore make it so leveling alts and gearing them up gets easier as the game matures. Not to easy but easier than before.
By not doing this, GW2 is automatically less alt friendly than other games. The leveling process is too long in this game as it is…I don’t even mean in how much time it takes to level but how repetitious it is going from one heart to the next event, zone after zone after zone…it just gets boring.
In the end it also doesn’t matter if you have 1 or 10 characters because you can only play 1 at a time anyway, so the only advantage you have is variety in playstyle. Now in other MMOs with the trinity it also gives you another advantage: you can fulfil multiple roles with alts, making it easier to make groups. In SWTOR I have 14 characters, 9 of wich are max level. So I have 3 tanks, 3 healers and 3 dps. I had no problem leveling those characters but here I already get bored with leveling around level 40-50 and then I still have 30 levels to go.
@Lurch, most people who play multiple toons do not care about that ranking as you do or they dedicate one or two toons to something like that. Different players, different goals.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
@Lurch, most people who play multiple toons do not care about that ranking as you do or they dedicate one or two toons to something like that. Different players, different goals.
That is not really a meaningful comment. I don’t think I am an odd or specialist case in being a multi toon WvW centric player or rather, I was. If someone does not care about the rank abilities then it just means they don’t care that much what they are doing. Nothing wrong with that but you can hardly refer to it as ‘different goals’.
Lurch
Gandara
Gandara
Wow! Twice the play time got you twice the reward. I bet 10 times the play time would result in 10 times the reward.
(rolleyes) Obviously, I meant per day. A casual can, just like a hardcore player log in every day of the week and do his dailies. But the casual can’t play two hours or more per day. That’s why we have dailies. Think about it.
Nope. You are grasping at straws and you know it.
Plus you purposely completely ignored his analogy of a hardcore vs casual. Life is such that if you put more time into something, then usually you get more rewards out of it.
Its like someone who works part time vs full time. Should someone part time earn as much as full time? Makes no sense whatsoever…..and yah, I can compare playing a game to a job. There are pro gamers too, and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.
Gehenna, diminishing returns occurs regardless of whether you playing multiple characters or not. I happens when you farm events in rapid succession in the same area (this would take hours) or when you gather large amounts of drops by farming for an hour or so. It doesn’t really hinder normal non farming game play.
Wow! Twice the play time got you twice the reward. I bet 10 times the play time would result in 10 times the reward.
(rolleyes) Obviously, I meant per day. A casual can, just like a hardcore player log in every day of the week and do his dailies. But the casual can’t play two hours or more per day. That’s why we have dailies. Think about it.
Nope. You are grasping at straws and you know it.
Plus you purposely completely ignored his analogy of a hardcore vs casual. Life is such that if you put more time into something, then usually you get more rewards out of it.
Its like someone who works part time vs full time. Should someone part time earn as much as full time? Makes no sense whatsoever…..and yah, I can compare playing a game to a job. There are pro gamers too, and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.
Games like jobs are in the past and won’t return. Not being a job and WvW – is a reasons why GW2 is not died already. All other games without endgame are dead in 6 month.
I thought, and correct me if I’m wrong, that the whole purpose of an Alt is to have something to do when not playing your Main. Why is content then such a bad thing?
Yes, I am not an idiot, I understand that some folks want a ton of ready-playable toons for any and every occasion but shouldn’t the price for that kind of versatility be a long road?
CCCP….
Games like jobs are in the past and won’t return.
Since November 15th GW2 is trying to return to that design. That’s what most of the protests are all about.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Wow! Twice the play time got you twice the reward. I bet 10 times the play time would result in 10 times the reward.
(rolleyes) Obviously, I meant per day. A casual can, just like a hardcore player log in every day of the week and do his dailies. But the casual can’t play two hours or more per day. That’s why we have dailies. Think about it.
Nope. You are grasping at straws and you know it.
Plus you purposely completely ignored his analogy of a hardcore vs casual. Life is such that if you put more time into something, then usually you get more rewards out of it.
Its like someone who works part time vs full time. Should someone part time earn as much as full time? Makes no sense whatsoever…..and yah, I can compare playing a game to a job. There are pro gamers too, and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.
Games like jobs are in the past and won’t return. Not being a job and WvW – is a reasons why GW2 is not died already. All other games without endgame are dead in 6 month.
What? Reading comprehension pls.
“and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.”
Don’t just pick ONE part of my sentence and take it out of context pls.
Plus WvW is just completely a horrible experience in my opinion. This game is NOT still alive just because of WvW. Though I admit this is not part of the discussion so don’t start arguing how great WvW is to me.
Gehenna, diminishing returns occurs regardless of whether you playing multiple characters or not. I happens when you farm events in rapid succession in the same area (this would take hours) or when you gather large amounts of drops by farming for an hour or so. It doesn’t really hinder normal non farming game play.
Yes it does. But as I tried to explain I don’t mean DR as in loot but as in the fun level of leveling a character. Again it has NOTHING to do with loot but with the diminishing returns in enjoyment of repeating something over and over.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
@Lurch, most people who play multiple toons do not care about that ranking as you do or they dedicate one or two toons to something like that. Different players, different goals.
That is not really a meaningful comment. I don’t think I am an odd or specialist case in being a multi toon WvW centric player or rather, I was. If someone does not care about the rank abilities then it just means they don’t care that much what they are doing. Nothing wrong with that but you can hardly refer to it as ‘different goals’.
And you call my comments meaningless…lol
People have different goals in a game. That’s as much a fact as that point that people are different.
I couldn’t give a rats kitten about WvW ranking…there are people out there like that. So WvW ranking is not a goal for me at all. I am simply more PvE oriented and therefore so are my goals or interests if you prefer.
I never said you were the odd one out, but I am saying there are also a lot of people who don’t share your goals just as much as there are who do. So I shouldn’t have said “most”. That was the wrong word.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
“and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.”
No, it is not. Doing something better – yes. Doing something more – no.
“and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.”
No, it is not. Doing something better – yes. Doing something more – yes.
Fix that for ya.
Playing 2 hours on one character should reward you as much shineys as playing 2 hours on 2 characters. On what alt you want to play is a matter of pleasure of playing them.
@Lurch, most people who play multiple toons do not care about that ranking as you do or they dedicate one or two toons to something like that. Different players, different goals.
That is not really a meaningful comment. I don’t think I am an odd or specialist case in being a multi toon WvW centric player or rather, I was. If someone does not care about the rank abilities then it just means they don’t care that much what they are doing. Nothing wrong with that but you can hardly refer to it as ‘different goals’.
And you call my comments meaningless…lol
People have different goals in a game. That’s as much a fact as that point that people are different.
I couldn’t give a rats kitten about WvW ranking…there are people out there like that. So WvW ranking is not a goal for me at all. I am simply more PvE oriented and therefore so are my goals or interests if you prefer.
I never said you were the odd one out, but I am saying there are also a lot of people who don’t share your goals just as much as there are who do. So I shouldn’t have said “most”. That was the wrong word.
I still fail to see what point you are trying to make? I do not really play spvp much or Pve so I do not comment or make threads in those sections of the forums as its not the part of the game I really play. WvW rank title is also something I do not really care about. The rank abilities however are character progression so therefore I do care about these as otherwise why would I have bothered getting exotic /ascended gear on my toons in the first place? If you were insisting that fractal ranks were account wide I would not really have an opinion on it as it does not affect me in any way as we are playing different games.
I am stating very specifically how WvW Rank abilities affect anyone in the WvW community who play more than 1 toon.
Lurch
Gandara
Gandara
(edited by Lurch.9517)
I still fail to see what point you are trying to make? I do not really play spvp much or Pve so I do not comment or make threads in those sections of the forums as its not the part of the game I really play. WvW rank title is also something I do not really care about. The rank abilities however are character progression so therefore I do care about these as otherwise why would I have bothered getting exotic /ascended gear on my toons in the first place? If you were insisting that fractal ranks were account wide I would not really have an opinion on it as it does not affect me in any way as we are playing different games.
I now understand why you “fail” to see my point….I actually misunderstood what you were trying to say. Now with this post it suddenly dawned on me what you were actually saying…so forget what I said lol, my bad.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
(edited by Gehenna.3625)
Playing 2 hours on one character should reward you as much shineys as playing 2 hours on 2 characters. On what alt you want to play is a matter of pleasure of playing them.
That depends on what you mean by “playing 2 hours on 2 characters”.
If you mean playing each character for 1 hour, thus playing for a total of 2 hours then yes.
If you mean playing each character for 2 hours each, then no. Since that would be 4 hours vs 2 hours of play time.
I kind of see the argument that you should only play alts for the fun of playing them.
However, if part of your fun is “completing” the alt – and by completing I mean getting the best gear, then the road is long indeed and may no longer be worth it. So where alts were once fun, now they aren’t.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I kind of see the argument that you should only play alts for the fun of playing them.
However, if part of your fun is “completing” the alt – and by completing I mean getting the best gear, then the road is long indeed and may no longer be worth it. So where alts were once fun, now they aren’t.
Technically, it would only make a difference not time-gating things if the player with one character plays less than the player with several. If they both play the same amount of time a day, the single character player will still gear up fully faster and will still end up with the same reward per the person with many alts. Since the number of hours in the day is finite, then the former will always stay ahead of the latter as it is physically impossible to player for longer.
ANet have just changed the variable from time to day. It’s the same thing though if both players are equal in all things except the number of characters.
So essentially the argument is flawed since it tends to rely on the assumption that the player with one character does not invest as much time in the game as the player with several characters. Which isn’t necessarily true. And let’s not forget, that when you’re playing one character, you are not playing the others. So why should you get more for several characters by investing less time in each individually than the person who spends more time on one?
And, just so you don’t think that I’m a one character player trying to bash on people with alts, I have several alts. Would it be nice to have them geared up faster? yes, of course, but only because anything faster is better, lol. Each character requires X amount of input to achieve BiS gear. The player with one character has to put in that time for his/her character, and I put in equal time per character for mine. Yes, this results in a longer wait, but the actual time invested per character is the same. It’s the compromise of having several characters.
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
Hahahahahaha….oh dear….
But to keep to your analogy, there are a lot of governments who do give additional benefits per child and there is such a thing as family discounts, etc.
And as mentioned before, other MMOs are more helpful in this because they understand that a fair number of people play alts but that it doesn’t work if you expect the same effort for each character since people will get bored with it more easily as they make more characters. It’s just how it is.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
I kind of see the argument that you should only play alts for the fun of playing them.
However, if part of your fun is “completing” the alt – and by completing I mean getting the best gear, then the road is long indeed and may no longer be worth it. So where alts were once fun, now they aren’t.
Technically, it would only make a difference not time-gating things if the player with one character plays less than the player with several. If they both play the same amount of time a day, the single character player will still gear up fully faster and will still end up with the same reward per the person with many alts. Since the number of hours in the day is finite, then the former will always stay ahead of the latter as it is physically impossible to player for longer.
ANet have just changed the variable from time to day. It’s the same thing though if both players are equal in all things except the number of characters.
So essentially the argument is flawed since it tends to rely on the assumption that the player with one character does not invest as much time in the game as the player with several characters. Which isn’t necessarily true. And let’s not forget, that when you’re playing one character, you are not playing the others. So why should you get more for several characters by investing less time in each individually than the person who spends more time on one?
And, just so you don’t think that I’m a one character player trying to bash on people with alts, I have several alts. Would it be nice to have them geared up faster? yes, of course, but only because anything faster is better, lol. Each character requires X amount of input to achieve BiS gear. The player with one character has to put in that time for his/her character, and I put in equal time per character for mine. Yes, this results in a longer wait, but the actual time invested per character is the same. It’s the compromise of having several characters.
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
I don’t think you disagreed with anything I said. I don’t disagree with anything you said. My main point is that the game is less alt friendly than it use to be. As such some people will find that alts are no longer worth the effort. For example,
1. BIS goes from exotic → ascended
2. Obtaining items goes from being based on time spent in game to calendar days played
3. therefore gearing an alt (to best in slot gear) takes more calendar days than before ascended gear was introduced.
4. which (for some people, not everyone) makes having an alt less fun.
Whether or not this is a “fair” outcome based on the current rules does really come into my argument at all. I will concede that it’s at least internally consistent. However, it’s a change from one internally consistent system, which was alt-friendly, to another internally consistent system, which is less alt-friendly.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Most statements that I’ve seen that attempt to “argue” against this statement follow either the “it’s fair” line, which is irrelevant for the reasons I’ve stated. I’m upset about the change in the systems, not the fairness of any particular system.
The other statement I’ve seen is the “I’m enjoying my alts” statement, which I think may be more relevant. It suggests that there is a group of people for whom the change from the first system to the second system is not troubling. This suggests to me that there is a range of reactions.
Then I guess the question I hope ANet is considering is do you gain more than you lose from the change. That is, in my example, do more people stick around for the time gated loot than you lose from people being upset about the change.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Hopefully the boost to 500 in each craft will allow tradable ascended items to be made though.
I’m on the fence there. I’d LIKE them to be able to be traded but I’d also like there to be a reason to work on the crafting for yourself. Mostly because that means you can gear yourself with less pain at certain points. (Or at least, I was able to gear up rather well every 10 levels or so.)
But really, I expect them to work like this:
- Find a specific drop from a Champion spawn. Possibly the recipe for an account-bound Ascended weapon/armor. This will make a “pattern” of some sort which is item one, and controls which type of Infusion it accepts (Defensive, Offensive, Utility).
- Take tier 6 components or Rare components and do something like the Charged Quartz. The component directing what the “prefix” statistics are, much like what you Mystic Forge for back pieces. This is item two.
- Items three and four are the base materials for Exotic gear; Orichalcum, Gossamer, Hard Leather, and Ancient Wood.
- Throw the items in Discovery to get your Ascended weapon.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Hopefully the boost to 500 in each craft will allow tradable ascended items to be made though.
I’m on the fence there. I’d LIKE them to be able to be traded but I’d also like there to be a reason to work on the crafting for yourself. Mostly because that means you can gear yourself with less pain at certain points. (Or at least, I was able to gear up rather well every 10 levels or so.)
But really, I expect them to work like this:
- Find a specific drop from a Champion spawn. Possibly the recipe for an account-bound Ascended weapon/armor. This will make a “pattern” of some sort which is item one, and controls which type of Infusion it accepts (Defensive, Offensive, Utility).
- Take tier 6 components or Rare components and do something like the Charged Quartz. The component directing what the “prefix” statistics are, much like what you Mystic Forge for back pieces. This is item two.
- Items three and four are the base materials for Exotic gear; Orichalcum, Gossamer, Hard Leather, and Ancient Wood.
- Throw the items in Discovery to get your Ascended weapon.
That simultaneously sounds like a fair, clever, and very disheartening system.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I pretty much agree with the OP. With every patch it seems I have less and less motivation to even log in my alts. If my main and my alts both need gear from the same time-gate guess who’s going to get it? GG killing diversity, guess I’ll only ever play one class like I do in every other MMO that wasn’t set in Tyria. Time-gates are crumby, period.
They talk so much about designing a “better” MMO yet they keep walking down the path to “the same” MMO. It’s funny because where they started was already the better MMO.
This industry just needs to move on. We’ve seen a bunch of “WoW 2.0” attempts, and
who actually wants that? Do we really want to be playing those same game mechanics for
another 5 or 10 years? -Mike O’Brien
who actually wants that? Do we really want to be playing those same game mechanics for
another 5 or 10 years? -Mike O’Brien
Hopefully the boost to 500 in each craft will allow tradable ascended items to be made though.
I’m on the fence there. I’d LIKE them to be able to be traded but I’d also like there to be a reason to work on the crafting for yourself. Mostly because that means you can gear yourself with less pain at certain points. (Or at least, I was able to gear up rather well every 10 levels or so.)
But really, I expect them to work like this:
- Find a specific drop from a Champion spawn. Possibly the recipe for an account-bound Ascended weapon/armor. This will make a “pattern” of some sort which is item one, and controls which type of Infusion it accepts (Defensive, Offensive, Utility).
- Take tier 6 components or Rare components and do something like the Charged Quartz. The component directing what the “prefix” statistics are, much like what you Mystic Forge for back pieces. This is item two.
- Items three and four are the base materials for Exotic gear; Orichalcum, Gossamer, Hard Leather, and Ancient Wood.
- Throw the items in Discovery to get your Ascended weapon.
That simultaneously sounds like a fair, clever, and very disheartening system.
This is why I expect it, it seems like exactly the sort of thing which would be put in. It’s also my method of working with what’s in the game rather than tearing pieces out to rework them.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
I kind of see the argument that you should only play alts for the fun of playing them.
However, if part of your fun is “completing” the alt – and by completing I mean getting the best gear, then the road is long indeed and may no longer be worth it. So where alts were once fun, now they aren’t.
Technically, it would only make a difference not time-gating things if the player with one character plays less than the player with several. If they both play the same amount of time a day, the single character player will still gear up fully faster and will still end up with the same reward per the person with many alts. Since the number of hours in the day is finite, then the former will always stay ahead of the latter as it is physically impossible to player for longer.
ANet have just changed the variable from time to day. It’s the same thing though if both players are equal in all things except the number of characters.
So essentially the argument is flawed since it tends to rely on the assumption that the player with one character does not invest as much time in the game as the player with several characters. Which isn’t necessarily true. And let’s not forget, that when you’re playing one character, you are not playing the others. So why should you get more for several characters by investing less time in each individually than the person who spends more time on one?
And, just so you don’t think that I’m a one character player trying to bash on people with alts, I have several alts. Would it be nice to have them geared up faster? yes, of course, but only because anything faster is better, lol. Each character requires X amount of input to achieve BiS gear. The player with one character has to put in that time for his/her character, and I put in equal time per character for mine. Yes, this results in a longer wait, but the actual time invested per character is the same. It’s the compromise of having several characters.
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
I don’t think you disagreed with anything I said. I don’t disagree with anything you said. My main point is that the game is less alt friendly than it use to be. As such some people will find that alts are no longer worth the effort. For example,
1. BIS goes from exotic -> ascended
2. Obtaining items goes from being based on time spent in game to calendar days played
3. therefore gearing an alt (to best in slot gear) takes more calendar days than before ascended gear was introduced.
4. which (for some people, not everyone) makes having an alt less fun.Whether or not this is a “fair” outcome based on the current rules does really come into my argument at all. I will concede that it’s at least internally consistent. However, it’s a change from one internally consistent system, which was alt-friendly, to another internally consistent system, which is less alt-friendly.
I actually misquoted you – meant to quote someone else, so sorry about that!
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
Hahahahahaha….oh dear….
But to keep to your analogy, there are a lot of governments who do give additional benefits per child and there is such a thing as family discounts, etc.
And as mentioned before, other MMOs are more helpful in this because they understand that a fair number of people play alts but that it doesn’t work if you expect the same effort for each character since people will get bored with it more easily as they make more characters. It’s just how it is.
I’m sure there are some people who feel there are certain benefits to having alts – not everything in the game is per account, some of it is per character.
There’s really no reason to be rude or treat me like an idiot.
Also, I didn’t say it was totally fair or a perfect system. The argument I said was flawed was simply flawed in support of its case. So I pointed out a flaw in the argument. If you read my post again, you’ll see that I also think it would be nice to have things faster, but that on the way the system works, it doesn’t and can’t work that way.
For PVE players, fractals aside is there any content that is undoable unless you are in BIS gear? I only ask as to the best of my knowledge its only really WvW players that are effectively being forced to mothball our alts if we want to continue character progression and remain competetive.
Lurch
Gandara
Gandara
For PVE players, fractals aside is there any content that is undoable unless you are in BIS gear? I only ask as to the best of my knowledge its only really WvW players that are effectively being forced to mothball our alts if we want to continue character progression and remain competetive.
No, everything aside from higher level fractals is fine without Ascended gear.
Though, I think there are people who would argue that you don’t really need Ascended gear in WvW to remain competitive either, as at level 80, the difference between Exotic and Ascended is enough that skill > gear (I don’t really play WvW so I am not coming down on either side here). Obviously with the addition of full Ascended armor to the game, this will change.
For PVE players, fractals aside is there any content that is undoable unless you are in BIS gear? I only ask as to the best of my knowledge its only really WvW players that are effectively being forced to mothball our alts if we want to continue character progression and remain competetive.
No, everything aside from higher level fractals is fine without Ascended gear.
Though, I think there are people who would argue that you don’t really need Ascended gear in WvW to remain competitive either, as at level 80, the difference between Exotic and Ascended is enough that skill > gear (I don’t really play WvW so I am not coming down on either side here). Obviously with the addition of full Ascended armor to the game, this will change.
I think, he’s referring to the WvW progression skills not Ascended gear.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
For PVE players, fractals aside is there any content that is undoable unless you are in BIS gear? I only ask as to the best of my knowledge its only really WvW players that are effectively being forced to mothball our alts if we want to continue character progression and remain competetive.
No, everything aside from higher level fractals is fine without Ascended gear.
Though, I think there are people who would argue that you don’t really need Ascended gear in WvW to remain competitive either, as at level 80, the difference between Exotic and Ascended is enough that skill > gear (I don’t really play WvW so I am not coming down on either side here). Obviously with the addition of full Ascended armor to the game, this will change.
I think, he’s referring to the WvW progression skills not Ascended gear.
Oh, I thought since he asked specifically about content being doable without BiS gear he was referring to Ascended.
Apologies if I was wrong – I can’t comment on the progression skills.
For PVE players, fractals aside is there any content that is undoable unless you are in BIS gear? I only ask as to the best of my knowledge its only really WvW players that are effectively being forced to mothball our alts if we want to continue character progression and remain competetive.
No, everything aside from higher level fractals is fine without Ascended gear.
Though, I think there are people who would argue that you don’t really need Ascended gear in WvW to remain competitive either, as at level 80, the difference between Exotic and Ascended is enough that skill > gear (I don’t really play WvW so I am not coming down on either side here). Obviously with the addition of full Ascended armor to the game, this will change.
I think, he’s referring to the WvW progression skills not Ascended gear.
Oh, I thought since he asked specifically about content being doable without BiS gear he was referring to Ascended.
Apologies if I was wrong – I can’t comment on the progression skills.
Yeah, they don’t affect pvE at all. The only big PvE complaint is ascended gear. In WvW it’s WvW Rank (which is like leveling, but MUCH slower) and ascended gear.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I kind of see the argument that you should only play alts for the fun of playing them.
However, if part of your fun is “completing” the alt – and by completing I mean getting the best gear, then the road is long indeed and may no longer be worth it. So where alts were once fun, now they aren’t.
Technically, it would only make a difference not time-gating things if the player with one character plays less than the player with several. If they both play the same amount of time a day, the single character player will still gear up fully faster and will still end up with the same reward per the person with many alts. Since the number of hours in the day is finite, then the former will always stay ahead of the latter as it is physically impossible to player for longer.
ANet have just changed the variable from time to day. It’s the same thing though if both players are equal in all things except the number of characters.
So essentially the argument is flawed since it tends to rely on the assumption that the player with one character does not invest as much time in the game as the player with several characters. Which isn’t necessarily true. And let’s not forget, that when you’re playing one character, you are not playing the others. So why should you get more for several characters by investing less time in each individually than the person who spends more time on one?
And, just so you don’t think that I’m a one character player trying to bash on people with alts, I have several alts. Would it be nice to have them geared up faster? yes, of course, but only because anything faster is better, lol. Each character requires X amount of input to achieve BiS gear. The player with one character has to put in that time for his/her character, and I put in equal time per character for mine. Yes, this results in a longer wait, but the actual time invested per character is the same. It’s the compromise of having several characters.
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
I don’t think anyone here is saying that a person with alts should get a reward times the number of alts for the same amount of time played as the person with no alts. Not at all.
I agree that it is quite possible for a person with alts to only be able to play an hour a day and for a person with no alts to play 8 hours a day.
The point that I’m trying to make, and I believe is the point a couple others are trying to make, is this.
I should be able to hop on one character, do something (like a dungeon) and get full rewards for it. Let’s say it takes 20min.
I should then be able to hop on my seconds and do it again for the same reward. Another 20min.
Part of the fun of having/playing an alt is progressing that alt. Playing the same dungeon a second time for the same reward as before, not only gives me the same reward per time as the person with just one character but also, I’m progressing two characters and so the reward is divided between those two characters. So not only is the reward per time the same as a person with just one character but the reward per character is the same.
Hopefully the boost to 500 in each craft will allow tradable ascended items to be made though.
Well, they have already stated that all the ascended gear will be account bound. They will not be tradable.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I don’t think it’s about alts at all. I think it’s about Anet intentionally dragging out playtime as much as possible for players. All of this time gated content and soulbound crap are just an excuse to have us only accomplish a little bit day after day for each and every character we might choose to play. They’re desperate to keep us playing and this is their method.
Spot on. Makes you wonder how a company got to that from this:
But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?
If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content meant to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do—I played it multiple times because it was fun!
So if your key metric for success of your game is fun, how do you make content that fits that goal, and how do you know if you’re succeeding?
It’s easy to tell if a subscription-based game is hitting its metric of success, you simply look at the number of subscriptions; fun is much harder to define. To accomplish this, we’ve had to fundamentally redefine our development process of content in Guild Wars 2 around this concept of fun, and it starts with asking a very simple question that surprisingly isn’t asked that often in game development: “Are you having fun?”
- Colin Johanson, Is it Fun?
This blog is no longer available on ANETs site unfortunately but i have that article saved and it hurts every single time i read it.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet
-Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet
Hopefully the boost to 500 in each craft will allow tradable ascended items to be made though.
Well, they have already stated that all the ascended gear will be account bound. They will not be tradable.
Yep. What will be tradable is the Tier 7 mats, which can be made one per day. Incidentally, this system will also favor the one-character player. Since you can only gear up by crafting Ascended for your own characters (or via drops, with what ANet considers to be an acceptable drop rate for max-stat gear). Once the one character player is fully-geared, s/he could choose to sell the mats to others who prefer not to wait for the time gating. I expect these mats will be quite pricey, especially early on.
People aren’t given pay rises at work just because they have a second child.
Hahahahahaha….oh dear….
But to keep to your analogy, there are a lot of governments who do give additional benefits per child and there is such a thing as family discounts, etc.
And as mentioned before, other MMOs are more helpful in this because they understand that a fair number of people play alts but that it doesn’t work if you expect the same effort for each character since people will get bored with it more easily as they make more characters. It’s just how it is.
I’m sure there are some people who feel there are certain benefits to having alts – not everything in the game is per account, some of it is per character.
There’s really no reason to be rude or treat me like an idiot.
Also, I didn’t say it was totally fair or a perfect system. The argument I said was flawed was simply flawed in support of its case. So I pointed out a flaw in the argument. If you read my post again, you’ll see that I also think it would be nice to have things faster, but that on the way the system works, it doesn’t and can’t work that way.
You’ll just have to forgive me for laughing because I really think comparing it to having real children is rather out there but ok, I do see your point.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
“and the simple fact that doing ANYTHING in life more than the other person ALWAYS rewards you more. Seriously, you get taught that when you are a small child.”
No, it is not. Doing something better – yes. Doing something more – no.
Sorry, but I cant argue with fail logic.
I think Rasst’s logic is that if I put in ten extra hours at work, I’m still getting paid the same rate, even if the sum I am taking home is greater. I’m not getting rewarded a higher rate, I’m getting the same pay as always.
Anet is slowly killing off alts and I don’t understand why… Alts are one of the main driving forces to keep players around, yet every decision kills them a little more.
1. It started with fractals… oh fractals are character bound so you can progress on each characters… (i.e. screw you alts, you have to run 50 fractal runs just to get back to the skill level you are at)
2. Next was laurels… Oh sorry this reward is account bound so your alts will take forever to gear up…
3. Then came daily bonus chests… what you only made alts to get bonus rares? L2GW2!!!
4. Next came WvW ranks… oh you want to play an alt in WvW, sucks to be you, all your bonuses are gone now (i.e. “progression”)
5. After that came time gated crystals… oh you can only get one of these magical crystals a day, good luck ever building gear with these crystals on your alts… that will take 100 years…
6. Here we arrive today with dungeon rewards being switched to account bound for gold AND tokens.
Every time one of these things happened the blind Anet defenders came and swarmed shouting their typical chant… "what you only play alts for X, Learn 2 GW2 and play the “right” way!"
Well guess what… there is no longer a single area of the PvE game left that alts aren’t penalized for, guess it’s time for a new excuse.
This is the reason why I pretty much stopped playing GW2 alltogether. I took a break to play Neverwinter, game didnt offer much so I decided to go back and play GW2. I played for a few days and then it struck me again, kitten they hate alts. Since then I havent logged on again, because the grind is just too big.
It’s much more grindy than any MMO I’ve previously played. I would be fine if everything was per character i.e 1 daily per character to get 1 laurel per character, like how fractals and relics works. Things are too time gated.
I’ll be going to FF14 when it goes live this month.
Let Valkyries guide me to my destiny.
I think Rasst’s logic is that if I put in ten extra hours at work, I’m still getting paid the same rate, even if the sum I am taking home is greater. I’m not getting rewarded a higher rate, I’m getting the same pay as always.
Overtime pay is usually tied to higher pay rate. Just saying.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
It has recently occurred to me that one of the next major changes in MMO mechanics may be to make progression largely account bound. Maybe there can be horizontal progression mechanics for individual characters like weapon skills and skill acquisition. It would also have to be worked to allow players to have individual characters scale down to do the storyline separately.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
“We’re making it easier to earn World XP points for playing normally in World vs. World by increasing the WXP rate across the board! As an added bonus, we’re adjusting World vs. World Ability Points so that your total points are equal to your current rank. New characters will start off with one ability point, and all existing characters will receive one more!”
I guess this means that WvW ranks will never be account bound like they should…
… I still want tengu.
“We’re making it easier to earn World XP points for playing normally in World vs. World by increasing the WXP rate across the board! As an added bonus, we’re adjusting World vs. World Ability Points so that your total points are equal to your current rank. New characters will start off with one ability point, and all existing characters will receive one more!”
I guess this means that WvW ranks will never be account bound like they should…
I don’t WANT them account bound, I would like to have different characters with different “functions”. Supply runner / repairer / builder as opposed to someone built to get in there and fight. As opposed to someone who is meant purely for making siege more useful/dangerous . . .
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.