Guild Wars 2

Simply put, this is what GW has envisioned gw2 farming as….
https://postimg.org/image/6grdxnzl7/
Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

I tried it for 2 hrs. The centaures at the bottom dont drop the bloodstain thing that gives leather.
In short, those engi are just semi-afk farming worthless stuff, if you get 5-7 gold hrs doing it.

the farm isnt for leather and frankly its much less tedious and abnoxious than the normal farm they intented its also a nice pass time if you do something else you you still wonna do something passivelly in game

UnitedChaos.8364:

Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

Yes. That is working as designed.

The question is, who thought that was a good design and why did they think so.

Everything in game has been a kill for loot since launch. There’s nothing abnormal or even unusual about the Engi farm. The only bad design was letting the leather supply diminish to the point where farming it had a good ROI.

TexZero.7910:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

Yes. That is working as designed.

The question is, who thought that was a good design and why did they think so.

Well, technically this was possible long before this specific area was made available. I don’t think this was specifically designed to let people stand there with engineers and generate loot. I mean, you could really just stand around anywhere and do the same thing as long as the respawn rate is fast enoughto make it somewhat less pointless and waste of energy and time.

I don’t think this has to do with any design or intend of any developer.

I mean, I would seriously question the developer who thinks it would be a good idea for a place where people can semi AFK farm while generating loot and barely playing the game. Especially after saying that AFK farming is not allowed. Seems very unlikely. It’s definitely the lowest form of content in the game. If you can even call it content.

I guess this is all a result of John Smith’s “hands-off and wait and see” approach to the game’s economic evolution? If so, I request you get your hands in and get ’em dirty.

Adjust salvaging drop rates for HL.

Add HL as a direct drop from various mobs globally around the world, not just in ONE SPOT.

Reduce the requirements for HL in various crafting recipes.

Tweak as needed until HL value is brought to a point where it “makes sense” — cuz it doesn’t really make sense in comparison to gossamer or orichalcum, both of which are comparitively worthless. Seriously, it’s not rocket science is it?

Just be more careful than you were with silk. Don’t do the “rags to riches to rags” thing which is extremely, EXTREMELY, annoying to players.

edit: typo fix

The engi farm in LD gives very little leather since you gotta farm the crazed centaures to get the Bloodstone-Warped Hide, and those ponies are only found if you go up the hill. I tried it once for a bit less then 2 hrs and its not profitable nor fun.

The engi farm is a waiste of a pretty nice map, where active people used to do events. Now its a turrets graveyard.

Yeah it did not give much. If you like to kill horses it is okay
Sometimes Immelhoof joins in and kills half of the Engi club. That is fun.

FrizzFreston.5290:

TexZero.7910:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

Yes. That is working as designed.

The question is, who thought that was a good design and why did they think so.

Well, technically this was possible long before this specific area was made available. I don’t think this was specifically designed to let people stand there with engineers and generate loot. I mean, you could really just stand around anywhere and do the same thing as long as the respawn rate is fast enoughto make it somewhat less pointless and waste of energy and time.

I don’t think this has to do with any design or intend of any developer.

I mean, I would seriously question the developer who thinks it would be a good idea for a place where people can semi AFK farm while generating loot and barely playing the game. Especially after saying that AFK farming is not allowed. Seems very unlikely. It’s definitely the lowest form of content in the game. If you can even call it content.

Oh don’t get me wrong but…

When the entire point of that specific area is to be a designated farming location, it is a design choice.

Did they forsee people afk turret farming there, probably not as that’s an abuse case. Even then those centaur just drop average loot. However, it’s not beyond reason for 4-5 engies to do the same up top in the camp and actually farm leather. Or even just a group of stealth thieves opening the chest. It’s not exactly what one calls a thoughtful response to a problem or compelling gameplay which is exactly why i phrased the response as such.

It was a very, poor short sighted attempt to fix a much larger issue. Which is ironic when literally changing the salvage rates or adjusting the leather requirements would have been sufficient for much healthier long term solution.

Easy way to sort this just make it so eng turrets ony target mobs you have targeted so semi afk players wont get squat unless they activly make an effort then its no longer an afk farm and other players cant complain
and once they actualy have to start makeing a effort they will all move on to some place else coz lets face it there are other more profitable areas in the game to earn money if you are actualy playing and not siting afk

thefinnster.7105:

Easy way to sort this just make it so eng turrets ony target mobs you have targeted so semi afk players wont get squat unless they activly make an effort then its no longer an afk farm and other players cant complain
and once they actualy have to start makeing a effort they will all move on to some place else coz lets face it there are other more profitable areas in the game to earn money if you are actualy playing and not siting afk

That fixes nothing and breaks the entire reason to have turrets, which is zone denial.

The fixes that need to be made are strictly economics based here.

Katastroff.1045:

The engi farm in LD gives very little leather since you gotta farm the crazed centaurs to get the Bloodstone-Warped Hide, and those ponies are only found if you go up the hill.

The bigger issue is that even with Bloodstone-Warped Hides, the drop rate on hardened leather is only 8%. That’s not very productive, especially for the trouble of rallying up with a large group to ‘farm’ hits-too-hard enemies at excessively long range.

TexZero.7910:

Or even just a group of stealth thieves opening the chest.

Sorry, but Thieves using stealth to get to a chest is really not on the same level as the Engineer farm. The devs could easily have made that impossible by design, like they did at other instances. Thieves using stealth are not as pitiful as the Engineer farm in Lake Doric or wiggling players who ate Seaweed Salad. Stealth is just another means of doing what tankier builds can do without it. Warrior can just walk to the spider wisp in Swampland and ignore the spiders he triggers, Thief can shadow step to it.

And a stealthed Thief doesn’t make the game look bad. Necromancer and Engineer farms and wiggling players do. I bet ArenaNet would remove them quickly if they were in starting areas. When you get to the farms, you already know that this is not how the game is because you are in Lake Doric and Bitterfrost Frontier.

btw, since this is a Leather topic: If you want quick 40 Hardened Leather Sections and haven’t map completed Cursed Shore yet, do it! It’s probably the best one time “farm” for hardened leather per hour. You will probably go for map completion anyway, so why not now when the price for that stuff is so high.

Faaris.8013:

TexZero.7910:

Or even just a group of stealth thieves opening the chest.

Sorry, but Thieves using stealth to get to a chest is really not on the same level as the Engineer farm. The devs could easily have made that impossible by design, like they did at other instances. Thieves using stealth are not as pitiful as the Engineer farm in Lake Doric or wiggling players who ate Seaweed Salad. Stealth is just another means of doing what tankier builds can do without it. Warrior can just walk to the spider wisp in Swampland and ignore the spiders he triggers, Thief can shadow step to it.

And a stealthed Thief doesn’t make the game look bad. Necromancer and Engineer farms and wiggling players do. I bet ArenaNet would remove them quickly if they were in starting areas. When you get to the farms, you already know that this is not how the game is because you are in Lake Doric and Bitterfrost Frontier.

btw, since this is a Leather topic: If you want quick 40 Hardened Leather Sections and haven’t map completed Cursed Shore yet, do it! It’s probably the best one time “farm” for hardened leather per hour. You will probably go for map completion anyway, so why not now when the price for that stuff is so high.

Way to selectively pick one piece of a point and misconstrue it.

The point is, running around and opening chest no matter how you do it is not fun or interactive gameplay. It is on the same level as afk farming as it involves minimal interaction between you and the game. It’s bad gameplay design aimed at appeasing peoples inner desire for loot while not addressing the problem.

TexZero.7910:

It was a very, poor short sighted attempt to fix a much larger issue. Which is ironic when literally changing the salvage rates or adjusting the leather requirements would have been sufficient for much healthier long term solution.

Why this won’t happen:

• MMO business models, including that of GW2, depend on keeping players playing the game. Whether there is a sub or store, completely inactive players don’t pay for time or store stuff.
• Long-term goals keep people logging in. Economic solutions that would involve making it take less time for players to gain the long-term goals put in to keep them logging in is contrary to the company’s business goal.
• Farming does keep people logging in, even if their engagement with the game is less than it might be were they elsewhere in game.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Simply put, this is what GW has envisioned gw2 farming as….
https://postimg.org/image/6grdxnzl7/
Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

Yes. Remember, that they didn’t really want to do anything about the leather situation. What they wanted was to put up an appearance of doing something.

Things like what you posted? It’s all fine for them. People are farming, but the leather market remains unaffected. It’s perfect.

Astralporing.1957:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Simply put, this is what GW has envisioned gw2 farming as….
https://postimg.org/image/6grdxnzl7/
Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

Yes. Remember, that they didn’t really want to do anything about the leather situation. What they wanted was to put up an appearance of doing something.

Things like what you posted? It’s all fine for them. People are farming, but the leather market remains unaffected. It’s perfect.

Everything has dropped down due to that engi farm. The impact is based on the number of people farming. Since there are more people doing the engi farm than the old way, you’re seeing a greater impact. If even more people farmed then prices would fall even further. With how things are right now, players have control over the supply and prices.

Ayrilana.1396:

Everything has dropped down due to that engi farm. The impact is based on the number of people farming. Since there are more people doing the engi farm than the old way, you’re seeing a greater impact. If even more people farmed then prices would fall even further. With how things are right now, players have control over the supply and prices.

And what exactly is the impact? They are looting crap, will have no visible effect on the leather economy. It looks bad, that’s all I can see. Not a big deal.

Faaris.8013:

Ayrilana.1396:

Everything has dropped down due to that engi farm. The impact is based on the number of people farming. Since there are more people doing the engi farm than the old way, you’re seeing a greater impact. If even more people farmed then prices would fall even further. With how things are right now, players have control over the supply and prices.

And what exactly is the impact? They are looting crap, will have no visible effect on the leather economy. It looks bad, that’s all I can see. Not a big deal.

Prices have all dropped since the engi farm started. The more people farming, the more supply that enters the TP, and the further prices go down. That’s your impact. Both thick and hardened have seen price decreases with supply increasing 2-3 fold.

Ayrilana.1396:

Faaris.8013:

Ayrilana.1396:

Everything has dropped down due to that engi farm. The impact is based on the number of people farming. Since there are more people doing the engi farm than the old way, you’re seeing a greater impact. If even more people farmed then prices would fall even further. With how things are right now, players have control over the supply and prices.

And what exactly is the impact? They are looting crap, will have no visible effect on the leather economy. It looks bad, that’s all I can see. Not a big deal.

Prices have all dropped since the engi farm started. The more people farming, the more supply that enters the TP, and the further prices go down. That’s your impact. Both thick and hardened have seen price decreases with supply increasing 2-3 fold.

The player-driven market at work~

IndigoSundown.5419:

TexZero.7910:

It was a very, poor short sighted attempt to fix a much larger issue. Which is ironic when literally changing the salvage rates or adjusting the leather requirements would have been sufficient for much healthier long term solution.

Why this won’t happen:

• MMO business models, including that of GW2, depend on keeping players playing the game. Whether there is a sub or store, completely inactive players don’t pay for time or store stuff.
• Long-term goals keep people logging in. Economic solutions that would involve making it take less time for players to gain the long-term goals put in to keep them logging in is contrary to the company’s business goal.
• Farming does keep people logging in, even if their engagement with the game is less than it might be were they elsewhere in game.

I agree with this, but disagree with your implied comment that gathering a basic crafting material should count as this long term goal. Long term goals in GW2 should be based around achievements, legendaries, and other collection-esque things (like collecting all the dyes, all the minis, all the finishers, all the skins etc…..). Gathering a basic crafting material, especially one needed in such high quantities in so many recipes relative to the other basic mats, should never, ever be one of the long term goals in the game. That’s not healthy.

Farming is never going to look pretty. It is the path of least resistance by default.

The more they farm, the lower the price. I’m ok with that

mazut.4296:

The more they farm, the lower the price. I’m ok with that

That is all good until enough people start complaining and wanting nerfs. Because it is “toxic”

Then they wonder why prices are high.

mazut.4296:

The more they farm, the lower the price. I’m ok with that

The thing is, they are NOT farming leather, they are farming random crap.

Beside, a small group of 2-10 players can easily farm the crazed ponies by going by the back door. I’ve done it with a friend and got about double worth of gold in about half the time. So real leather farming is still doable in a map clogged up by the scrapyard.

OriOri.8724:

IndigoSundown.5419:

TexZero.7910:

It was a very, poor short sighted attempt to fix a much larger issue. Which is ironic when literally changing the salvage rates or adjusting the leather requirements would have been sufficient for much healthier long term solution.

Why this won’t happen:

• MMO business models, including that of GW2, depend on keeping players playing the game. Whether there is a sub or store, completely inactive players don’t pay for time or store stuff.
• Long-term goals keep people logging in. Economic solutions that would involve making it take less time for players to gain the long-term goals put in to keep them logging in is contrary to the company’s business goal.
• Farming does keep people logging in, even if their engagement with the game is less than it might be were they elsewhere in game.

I agree with this, but disagree with your implied comment that gathering a basic crafting material should count as this long term goal. Long term goals in GW2 should be based around achievements, legendaries, and other collection-esque things (like collecting all the dyes, all the minis, all the finishers, all the skins etc…..). Gathering a basic crafting material, especially one needed in such high quantities in so many recipes relative to the other basic mats, should never, ever be one of the long term goals in the game. That’s not healthy.

This in a nutshell is the response i would have posted.

It’s okay to have long-term goals. It’s not okay for the long term goal to be a generic item required for crafting. The long term goal should be the collection associated with the completed crafts.

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

Henry.5713:

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

This one is different in that this farm is intentional. They even advertised it. It doesn’t really need any justification beyond that.

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

This one is different in that this farm is intentional. They even advertised it. It doesn’t really need any justification beyond that.

It is an intentional farm. Nobody denies that. Not so sure about the method people are using, however. Wasn’t aware they advertised for this farm to be mainly used by a huge mass of semi-afk engineers. I probably missed that announcement.

Ayrilana.1396:

Prices have all dropped since the engi farm started. The more people farming, the more supply that enters the TP, and the further prices go down. That’s your impact. Both thick and hardened have seen price decreases with supply increasing 2-3 fold.

The prices have decreased a little bit since Lake Doric was put online, not since Engineers figured out how to farm the ground area. As the dev on reddit mentioned:

Small facts:

This area is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6ec2az/chris_clearly_engi_leather_farmbots_working_on_it/

He actually has numbers from the logs of that map. Contrary to what you believe, the Engineer farm does not make leather cheaper. You obviously didn’t even experience it yourself before talking about it on the forums. Please take 30 to 60 minutes and actually join the Engineers. You don’t need an Engineer for that, a character with AoEs helps. You will notice that there’s only crap to loot and the ponies down there don’t drop a single Hardened Leather Section. Thinking about it, since the Engineer farm only drops lower tier leather (mainly Tier 5), it could mean that people buy it on the market and think it’s a good time to start crafting. But for that, they need hardened leather again, so the demand on hardened leather rises, without additional hardened leather entering the market. You know what that means? Hardened leather could become more expensive because of the Engineer farms.

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

This one is different in that this farm is intentional. They even advertised it. It doesn’t really need any justification beyond that.

It is an intentional farm. Nobody denies that. Not so sure about the method people are using, however. Wasn’t aware they advertised for this farm to be mainly used by a huge mass of semi-afk engineers. I probably missed that announcement.

Well, that was likely the end result of this farm being as boring and as unrewarding as it is. People are disincentivized to run up the path by the whole design of the area, so they stay at the bottom even if that significantly reduces the reward acquisition rate. And if they stay at one place, they may as well do that on classes/builds that work best in such stationary environment.

If Anet didn’t want for this to happen, they should have designed this whole area differently.

I am not sure I actually see the problem with this.

Mindless grinds aren’t inherently bad for your MMORPG. People need these activities. They allow you to relax, browse something, watch a video or (most importantly) focus on chatting. They shouldn’t be the mainstay of your game but they definitely got their place.

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

This one is different in that this farm is intentional. They even advertised it. It doesn’t really need any justification beyond that.

It is an intentional farm. Nobody denies that. Not so sure about the method people are using, however. Wasn’t aware they advertised for this farm to be mainly used by a huge mass of semi-afk engineers. I probably missed that announcement.

Well, that was likely the end result of this farm being as boring and as unrewarding as it is. People are disincentivized to run up the path by the whole design of the area, so they stay at the bottom even if that significantly reduces the reqard acquisition rate. And if they stay at one place, they may as well do that on classes/builds that work best in such stationary environment.

If Anet didn’t want for this to happen, they should have designed this whole area differently.

That’s the point of reworks and eventual changes. To change things which ended up working and being used in a way they didn’t intend. As a lot of content turns out to be designed badly in due time. They will end up feeling forced to change it eventually. People complaining on the forums certainly helps.

It is perfectly normal for people to defend an activity they take part in. All though, they could be a bit more reasonable about it. Dropping material prices affect everyone differently. I’d certainly prefer for leather to stay as expensive as possible since I only ever sell my leather. While others love the dropping prices and an easy and rather lazy way to make gold in this game. It comes down to whether this is being considered good or bad for the game by ArenaNet. They are free to change their stance on an issue and redesign it if needed.

It’s hilarious how anet tries to ‘fix’ this and of course it doesn’t work. Expect another year of ultra expensive leather.

I wonder what their theory was when they did the following to remove the excess amount of hardened leather:

1. Increase the refining from 2 to 3 pieces
2. Add leather needed for insignias for all weights of armor
3. Added a kittenload of recipes needed for the Scribe

And probably other stuff I don’t even know.

So instead of trying to use one method they totally overexaggerate and even a kitten year after this they aren’t able to fix it. Good lord! Just revert from 3 to 2 pieces for god’s sake. Why the hell don’t you do that!?!?

Carighan.6758:

I am not sure I actually see the problem with this.

Mindless grinds aren’t inherently bad for your MMORPG. People need these activities. They allow you to relax, browse something, watch a video or (most importantly) focus on chatting. They shouldn’t be the mainstay of your game but they definitely got their place.

I think many people believe the people behind those accounts are not really playing the game actively. That’s simply not true.

My wife has a HoT account too, but rarely plays it. I could just log in with her account, use the level 80 boost on a Necromancer and play it until it has the autoloot mastery. Then I could just start a necro afk farm and run it while actively playing my own account. Most people would think the player behind that afk farm account must be somehow deranged or a completely boring person. And the dev on reddit even thinks that an afk farm means less active playing and people moving away from the game eventually. That’s only a correct assumption if every account belongs to a single real person. That’s far from reality though, especially in a game you can basically play for free. There are probably people who have a dozen afk farms running, while actively playing their main account. Then transfer the crap to that main account, because crap times a dozen adds up. And yes, there are people who have access to several computers.

ArenaNet should know how many people have more than one account, because they see the IP addresses.

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

This one is different in that this farm is intentional. They even advertised it. It doesn’t really need any justification beyond that.

It is an intentional farm. Nobody denies that. Not so sure about the method people are using, however. Wasn’t aware they advertised for this farm to be mainly used by a huge mass of semi-afk engineers. I probably missed that announcement.

Well, that was likely the end result of this farm being as boring and as unrewarding as it is. People are disincentivized to run up the path by the whole design of the area, so they stay at the bottom even if that significantly reduces the reqard acquisition rate. And if they stay at one place, they may as well do that on classes/builds that work best in such stationary environment.

If Anet didn’t want for this to happen, they should have designed this whole area differently.

That’s the point of reworks and eventual changes. To change things which ended up working and being used in a way they didn’t intend. As a lot of content turns out to be designed badly in due time. They will end up feeling forced to change it eventually. People complaining on the forums certainly helps.

Note, that what people ask for is not a change to the farm design (which is something that should happen), but either nerfs to engi or changes to general combat mechanics. And if anet will do something, following up on that path also seems more likely. Even if those are not at fault here.

Henry.5713:

It is perfectly normal for people to defend an activity they take part in. All though, they could be a bit more reasonable about it. Dropping material prices affect everyone differently. I’d certainly prefer for leather to stay as expensive as possible since I only ever sell my leather. While others love the dropping prices and an easy and rather lazy way to make gold in this game. It comes down to whether this is being considered good or bad for the game by ArenaNet. They are free to change their stance on an issue and redesign it if needed.

Actually, by that reddit post, the current farm introduces even less leather into the economy than the previous one (which had absolutely no impact on prices). The effect on prices thus likely comes from somewhere else (most likely it’s somehow connected to the last LS patch).

Notice, by the way, that while the price of t6 leather dipped a little, the prices of the t1-t4 leather went up.

OriOri.8724:

I agree with this, but disagree with your implied comment that gathering a basic crafting material should count as this long term goal. Long term goals in GW2 should be based around achievements, legendaries, and other collection-esque things (like collecting all the dyes, all the minis, all the finishers, all the skins etc…..). Gathering a basic crafting material, especially one needed in such high quantities in so many recipes relative to the other basic mats, should never, ever be one of the long term goals in the game. That’s not healthy.

In addition, the various basic crafting materials have a working interrelationship. The price of one affects the prices of the others.

Unless you manage to get the balance pretty much perfect, whenever you have such a relationship you’re always going to have one of those materials essentially acting as the bottleneck – the material whose scarcity limits how much of the others you can actually use. For all forms of armourcrafting, that material is currently leather. While there’s always going to be a bottleneck, however, how much of a bottleneck it represents will influence the prices of the other components. If it’s a relatively wide bottleneck, such that the bottleneck component is scarcer than the others but only by a little bit, then the prices will be about the same. The tighter the bottleneck, however, to more the prices of the other components are going to be suppressed, down to the point where if the bottleneck is tight enough, the other components can become effectively worthless because you simply don’t have enough of the bottleneck component to use them all (see, for example: Milling stones).

Requiring ten hardened leather sections for an exotic insignia was, I think, a critical error. The whole reason why cloth used to be the most expensive component was that the cloth required for the insignia was typically more than the materials to make the actual pieces of the armour (the panels, padding, straps, etc), particularly since cloth can’t be freely harvested like wood and metal. Adding the requirement for ten leather sections is taking that problem and increasing it two and a half times.

TL:DR (and in conclusion): The issue isn’t just about leather, it also devalues the other components.

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

This feels like an even lazier version of AB Multiloot. With exactly the same responses from the community. People either being silly and trying to justify the farm or asking for others to get punished for very little reason.
ArenaNet will most likely find away to limit this even if they won’t consider it to be illegal by a technical definition. They have already reworked quite a few features in the past which turned into a “farm” they didn’t like.

This one is different in that this farm is intentional. They even advertised it. It doesn’t really need any justification beyond that.

It is an intentional farm. Nobody denies that. Not so sure about the method people are using, however. Wasn’t aware they advertised for this farm to be mainly used by a huge mass of semi-afk engineers. I probably missed that announcement.

Well, that was likely the end result of this farm being as boring and as unrewarding as it is. People are disincentivized to run up the path by the whole design of the area, so they stay at the bottom even if that significantly reduces the reqard acquisition rate. And if they stay at one place, they may as well do that on classes/builds that work best in such stationary environment.

If Anet didn’t want for this to happen, they should have designed this whole area differently.

That’s the point of reworks and eventual changes. To change things which ended up working and being used in a way they didn’t intend. As a lot of content turns out to be designed badly in due time. They will end up feeling forced to change it eventually. People complaining on the forums certainly helps.

Note, that what people ask for is not a change to the farm design (which is something that should happen), but either nerfs to engi or changes to general combat mechanics. And if anet will do something, following up on that path also seems more likely. Even if those are not at fault here.

Henry.5713:

It is perfectly normal for people to defend an activity they take part in. All though, they could be a bit more reasonable about it. Dropping material prices affect everyone differently. I’d certainly prefer for leather to stay as expensive as possible since I only ever sell my leather. While others love the dropping prices and an easy and rather lazy way to make gold in this game. It comes down to whether this is being considered good or bad for the game by ArenaNet. They are free to change their stance on an issue and redesign it if needed.

Actually, by that reddit post, the current farm introduces even less leather into the economy than the previous one (which had absolutely no impact on prices). The effect on prices thus likely comes from somewhere else (most likely it’s somehow connected to the last LS patch).

Notice, by the way, that while the price of t6 leather dipped a little, the prices of the t1-t4 leather went up.

I have to admit that I don’t exactly follow material prices as closely as others do. This point is invalid then. All though, they might still consider the method used as something worth prohibiting even if the impact on the economy is small.

And I agree with you, they need to change the lazy setup of the event rather than the entire class or game mechanics. People will simply find a new way to abuse anything if they don’t hit the problem by it’s roots.

Congratulations! Your squirtle Develolved into…

Carighan.6758:

I am not sure I actually see the problem with this.

Mindless grinds aren’t inherently bad for your MMORPG. People need these activities. They allow you to relax, browse something, watch a video or (most importantly) focus on chatting. They shouldn’t be the mainstay of your game but they definitely got their place.

Well said!

TexZero.7910:

OriOri.8724:

I agree with this, but disagree with your implied comment that gathering a basic crafting material should count as this long term goal. Long term goals in GW2 should be based around achievements, legendaries, and other collection-esque things (like collecting all the dyes, all the minis, all the finishers, all the skins etc…..). Gathering a basic crafting material, especially one needed in such high quantities in so many recipes relative to the other basic mats, should never, ever be one of the long term goals in the game. That’s not healthy.

This in a nutshell is the response i would have posted.

It’s okay to have long-term goals. It’s not okay for the long term goal to be a generic item required for crafting. The long term goal should be the collection associated with the completed crafts.

Fwiw, I agree with both of you on the design philosophy end. I’ve just gotten really cynical about MMO’s.

i did find it funny the other day went there played a bit in the morning and logged out, when i logged back in couple hours later- it was still going strong. Logged out again until late night and came back the party was still happening. lol

true its not the good leather farm its for bags which has leather loot and other crap. I find there are better ways to make gold and collect leather then this.

Faaris.8013:

The prices have decreased a little bit since Lake Doric was put online, not since Engineers figured out how to farm the ground area.

The bolded is incorrect and I’m shocked that you didn’t go to verify the prices before posting.

The centaurs at the bottom drop Heavy Supply Bags frequently. Within the drop table is thick leather and hardened leather. Also note that word of the egineer farm became widespread the last weekend of April and most definitely before the recent living story episode.

If you go on gw2tp for thick leather, you’ll see that prices were around 2.6 silver with supply in the range of 800K. Today, prices are 1.5 silver with supply around 1.3M. For hardened leather, prices were in the upper 30 silver with supply at 8-15K depending on when you looked at it as it had wild fluctuations during April. Today supply is over 30K with prices at around 29 silver.

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Silk/gossamer also drop from the heavy supply bags. Both have seen a drop in their prices along with an increase in supply. More evidence pointing towards the engi farm contributing to the drop of prices for those two tiers.

Faaris.8013:

As the dev on reddit mentioned:

Small facts:

This area is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6ec2az/chris_clearly_engi_leather_farmbots_working_on_it/

He actually has numbers from the logs of that map. Contrary to what you believe, the Engineer farm does not make leather cheaper. You obviously didn’t even experience it yourself before talking about it on the forums. Please take 30 to 60 minutes and actually join the Engineers. You don’t need an Engineer for that, a character with AoEs helps. You will notice that there’s only crap to loot and the ponies down there don’t drop a single Hardened Leather Section. Thinking about it, since the Engineer farm only drops lower tier leather (mainly Tier 5), it could mean that people buy it on the market and think it’s a good time to start crafting. But for that, they need hardened leather again, so the demand on hardened leather rises, without additional hardened leather entering the market. You know what that means? Hardened leather could become more expensive because of the Engineer farms.

Either the dev is wrong or what they stated is being taken the wrong way. As you saw above, there’s strong evidence suggesting that the engi farm is indeed making leather cheaper (for thick/hardened). I HAD experienced the engi farm as I did do it that first weekend to see what it was all about. Considering that you flat out stated that you don’t get hardened leather from the engi farm (see bolded), I’d say that you yourself haven’t done the engi farm. Kind of hypocritical…

As far as the last part of your post, hardened leather supply has had a downward trend is price, as well as an upward trend in supply, since the engi farm became prominent. I’d say that you’re wrong here as well.

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Hey at the end of the day if people want to spend all those hours, days, weeks or months engi farming then let them. I myself find it incredibly boring and rather do other things but that’s me, others who do farm daily love it.

Eventually I do think Anet will nerf that farm properly as it’s not really an immersive experience and mmo’s sell us on immersion. Once that happens people will go back to SW which yields more $ per hour btw still and more groups will form up for the proper leather farm as it was intended.

When the engi farm is over/nerfed, everything will be fine and prices return to normal.
I don’t think so. That might not be the reason

Some people do not like it. That is the reason for the hype.

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Coincidence or not, I’m trusting Anet’s word on this, since they are the ones with the actual numbers. This farm is introducing less leather than the regular farm of that area, and that regular farm did nothing to reduce the cost of T6 leather. So this farm is not decreasing the cost of leather because its introducing more into the economy.

I think the most likely situation is that people thought this farm was working, and so they started selling their leather for cheaper, trying to offload it before the price “tanked”, and we end up with a minor dip in price. And now that people realize that the engineer farm doesn’t work, that will reverse itself relatively quickly.

Faaris.8013:

Carighan.6758:

I am not sure I actually see the problem with this.

Mindless grinds aren’t inherently bad for your MMORPG. People need these activities. They allow you to relax, browse something, watch a video or (most importantly) focus on chatting. They shouldn’t be the mainstay of your game but they definitely got their place.

I think many people believe the people behind those accounts are not really playing the game actively. That’s simply not true.

My wife has a HoT account too, but rarely plays it. I could just log in with her account, use the level 80 boost on a Necromancer and play it until it has the autoloot mastery. Then I could just start a necro afk farm and run it while actively playing my own account. Most people would think the player behind that afk farm account must be somehow deranged or a completely boring person. And the dev on reddit even thinks that an afk farm means less active playing and people moving away from the game eventually. That’s only a correct assumption if every account belongs to a single real person. That’s far from reality though, especially in a game you can basically play for free. There are probably people who have a dozen afk farms running, while actively playing their main account. Then transfer the crap to that main account, because crap times a dozen adds up. And yes, there are people who have access to several computers.

ArenaNet should know how many people have more than one account, because they see the IP addresses.

So you admit that you wouldn’t actually be playing the account that is afk farming, but somehow think that you are still actively playing it? What kind of twisted logic is this to defend afk farms?