Guild Wars 2

Faaris.8013:

Carighan.6758:

I am not sure I actually see the problem with this.

Mindless grinds aren’t inherently bad for your MMORPG. People need these activities. They allow you to relax, browse something, watch a video or (most importantly) focus on chatting. They shouldn’t be the mainstay of your game but they definitely got their place.

I think many people believe the people behind those accounts are not really playing the game actively. That’s simply not true.

My wife has a HoT account too, but rarely plays it. I could just log in with her account, use the level 80 boost on a Necromancer and play it until it has the autoloot mastery. Then I could just start a necro afk farm and run it while actively playing my own account. Most people would think the player behind that afk farm account must be somehow deranged or a completely boring person. And the dev on reddit even thinks that an afk farm means less active playing and people moving away from the game eventually. That’s only a correct assumption if every account belongs to a single real person. That’s far from reality though, especially in a game you can basically play for free. There are probably people who have a dozen afk farms running, while actively playing their main account. Then transfer the crap to that main account, because crap times a dozen adds up. And yes, there are people who have access to several computers.

ArenaNet should know how many people have more than one account, because they see the IP addresses.

So you admit that you wouldn’t actually be playing the account that is afk farming, but somehow think that you are still actively playing it? What kind of twisted logic is this to defend afk farms?

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Coincidence or not, I’m trusting Anet’s word on this, since they are the ones with the actual numbers. This farm is introducing less leather than the regular farm of that area, and that regular farm did nothing to reduce the cost of T6 leather. So this farm is not decreasing the cost of leather because its introducing more into the economy.

I think the most likely situation is that people thought this farm was working, and so they started selling their leather for cheaper, trying to offload it before the price “tanked”, and we end up with a minor dip in price. And now that people realize that the engineer farm doesn’t work, that will reverse itself relatively quickly.

Or while it produces less leather than the other way, there’s enough players doing the engi farm to make up for that and more.

Every item that comes from the heavy supply bags has shown its prices to be decreasing with its supply increasing. T6 fine mats are a bit impossible to analyze as there are so many external factors beyond the farm. Even the bags themselves have shown a slight decrease in price and and even greater increase in supply.

Players offloading their supply wouldn’t be causing all of this.

OriOri.8724:

Faaris.8013:

I think many people believe the people behind those accounts are not really playing the game actively. That’s simply not true.

So you admit that you wouldn’t actually be playing the account that is afk farming, but somehow think that you are still actively playing it? What kind of twisted logic is this to defend afk farms?

Obviously, we are communicating in different realms of logic. “People” are real persons, individuals. Those people who play two or more accounts at the same time are still “active players”. They are playing the game actively, just not with all accounts they are logged in with. Multi-Boxing is not against the rules, and I believe ArenaNet has especially no problem if it involves fully payed for accounts. And the farmers we are talking about are not free version players, otherwise they wouldn’t have the autoloot mastery.

What I’m saying is that reacting with pity towards those players is not asked for because you don’t know what they are doing on another box. Also, the logic that is expressed by the dev on reddit:

Eventually these players spend less and less time actually playing the game, and more time inactive and farming.

only applies if the players only play one account and only farm all day. If a person who plays two or more accounts just stops farming with one or a few of them, there is no player lost to the game and the business. Some publishers even have an incentive to keep multi boxing around because it increases the number of total accounts they can show around. If some F2P browser game that allows multiple accounts claims to have “20k accounts”, it’s quite possible that they only have 5k unique players, and that 3k of them are inactive.

btw, I’m not farming on any spots in this game, it’s too much effort for virtual items. But I have done it in other games. I was never “afk” and I believe most of the farmers in LD and BF are not afk either. If they don’t respond to your whisper, it’s probably because they are annoyed by all the spam they get and only answer to game moderators. They don’t have to respond to you in any way.

Edit: I did spend 1h to 1h 30m with the Engineers, and I got not a single Hardened Leather Section in that time. If they actually drop them, I believe if you can farm for 1h and not get one, the drop rate is insignificant. The wiki implies that they drop at the same rate as Thick Leather, but that’s simply not true. I got maybe 20 to 30 Thick Leather in that time.

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

There were other things that happened around that time (that was the introduction of Draconis Mons and legendary armor after all). For all we know we may also see the end of the high wave caused by changes to ascended vendor system introduced earlier this year. Or it may be, that the decrease to the cost of t5 and t6 is a result of increased cost of t2-t4 (if the lower tiers act as a bottleneck, that may decrease the demand for higher tiers).

Personally, i have no idea. I have only one solid thing to base all my thoughts on, and that is the dev statement that tells me what isn’t responsible.

Faaris.8013:

OriOri.8724:

Faaris.8013:

I think many people believe the people behind those accounts are not really playing the game actively. That’s simply not true.

So you admit that you wouldn’t actually be playing the account that is afk farming, but somehow think that you are still actively playing it? What kind of twisted logic is this to defend afk farms?

Obviously, we are communicating in different realms of logic. “People” are real persons, individuals. Those people who play two or more accounts at the same time are still “active players”. They are playing the game actively, just not with all accounts they are logged in with. Multi-Boxing is not against the rules, and I believe ArenaNet has especially no problem if it involves fully payed for accounts. And the farmers we are talking about are not free version players, otherwise they wouldn’t have the autoloot mastery.

What I’m saying is that reacting with pity towards those players is not asked for because you don’t know what they are doing on another box.

That’s really a stretch for justifying what is going on. You’re trying to redefine “active player” to refer to only the person, and intentionally refusing to acknowledge the accounts themselves as an entity involved in this. From the game/dev perspective, it’s the actions performed (or not performed) on the account(s) that matter, not the person behind it. It’s for this reason that botting is still botting, even if you are sitting at your PC interacting with the game in some other way. It’s the reason your account gets banned even if someone else temporarily hijacks your PC and posts bannable comments in chat. For the purpose of the rules of the game, we’re a collection of accounts more than we are people.

The account is the entity that matters more to Anet. It doesn’t matter that you are still at your PC, or at another PC, playing on another account. If you are not interacting with the account in question, that account constitutes an inactive player.

From an economic perspective, the issue goes beyond the supply and price of leather. Having more accounts than active players logged in and collecting loot causes inflation. It generates more income than the player should actually be bringing in, which causes a devaluing of gold in both terms of market inflation and the person’s perception of gold value in relation to time spent playing. That person is willing to spend more because gold means less to them, and when you get enough people like that, the price of everything goes up.

It’s comparable to when overly profitable farms exist or widespread botting is going on, just to a lesser degree. It creates a situation where the price of everything is based on the wealth generation of these players/bots. Meaning that everyone not doing it gets punished with increased costs on everything. If those situations went unchecked, we would eventually be to a point where only players exploiting the most profitable farms or botting would be able to afford anything at all. Inactive centaur farming probably isn’t near that level and likely won’t get there, but that doesn’t mean there is no impact from it. Killing it off and finding a better way to deal with the leather problem would be best for the health of the game’s economy.

The worst offenders are those actively playing one account, while other accounts are “semi-afk” farming. They’re getting one active account worth of loot, while also raking in additional loot/money from inactive accounts. I don’t think multi-boxing is even a proper term for this case, as that implies a greater degree of interaction. It’s just a small step away from botting, in both functionality and economic impact. It’s likely that the only things stopping a massive ban wave are the difficulty in drawing a clear line stating what level of game interaction counts as active or inactive, and the PR backlash of trying to enforce such a policy.

mrstealth.6701:

The account is the entity that matters more to Anet. It doesn’t matter that you are still at your PC, or at another PC, playing on another account. If you are not interacting with the account in question, that account constitutes an inactive player.

But is that really so? From what I could collect from reading the forums, as long as you respond to a moderator when whispered, you are not afk. Which makes sense, because afk means away from keyboard, and replying to a whisper kind of proves you are not afk (unless you use a chat bot).

mrstealth.6701:

Meaning that everyone not doing it gets punished with increased costs on everything.

Wait, so now additional leather entering the game through multi-box farms increases prices? I thought we established that additional numbers of X on the market makes X cheaper, for everybody?

Faaris.8013:

mrstealth.6701:

The account is the entity that matters more to Anet. It doesn’t matter that you are still at your PC, or at another PC, playing on another account. If you are not interacting with the account in question, that account constitutes an inactive player.

But is that really so? From what I could collect from reading the forums, as long as you respond to a moderator when whispered, you are not afk. Which makes sense, because afk means away from keyboard, and replying to a whisper kind of proves you are not afk (unless you use a chat bot).

You’re trying to equate being at the PC and being active, but they are not the same thing. You can be at your PC, even paying some degree of attention to a game client/other PC running the game, but not be actively playing on that client/account. Active is controlling what is going on with your character. Dropping a few turrets, then not interacting with the game for several minutes, while your character continues gathering loot, is not what I would call active.

Faaris.8013:

mrstealth.6701:

Meaning that everyone not doing it gets punished with increased costs on everything.

Wait, so now additional leather entering the game through multi-box farms increases prices? I thought we established that additional numbers of X on the market makes X cheaper, for everybody?

The issue I was pointing out is inflation, not the price of leather. If the activity contributing to inflation does so through overfarming certain items, then those specific items can still see a price decrease due to a surplus, while inflation creates an overall devaluation of gold and a price increase with everything else. Of course, leather is not the only item being generated in this farm. The other loot is more spread out and less likely to create a surplus/price drop with specific items, and the junk/trophy items (or anything else sold to merchants) simply inject gold into the economy. This just contributes to inflation without having any considerable impact on the value of specific items in relation to each other.

End result, is that even though effective leather prices might go down, injecting more gold into the economy and giving a number of players a passive source of income creates inflation that lowers the value of gold and makes the price of everything increase. Even leather is effected by the inflation, but its increase in price is likely offset by the increased supply. If the impact of inflation was high enough, even leather with a massive surplus, could still see a price increase.

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Coincidence or not, I’m trusting Anet’s word on this, since they are the ones with the actual numbers. This farm is introducing less leather than the regular farm of that area, and that regular farm did nothing to reduce the cost of T6 leather. So this farm is not decreasing the cost of leather because its introducing more into the economy.

I think the most likely situation is that people thought this farm was working, and so they started selling their leather for cheaper, trying to offload it before the price “tanked”, and we end up with a minor dip in price. And now that people realize that the engineer farm doesn’t work, that will reverse itself relatively quickly.

Or while it produces less leather than the other way, there’s enough players doing the engi farm to make up for that and more.

Every item that comes from the heavy supply bags has shown its prices to be decreasing with its supply increasing. T6 fine mats are a bit impossible to analyze as there are so many external factors beyond the farm. Even the bags themselves have shown a slight decrease in price and and even greater increase in supply.

Players offloading their supply wouldn’t be causing all of this.

Are you still seriously trying to argue that Anet doesn’t know how much leather is being generated by this farm. Their comments didn’t say “less leather is being generated per player by this engineer farm”, the said, and I quote,

Chris Cleary

This area is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area

LESS LEATHER IS BEING GENERATED BY THIS FARM PERIOD. Stop trying to justify what you think is happening, because ANet has the actual numbers, and they show that you are just plain incorrect. Less leather is being generated by this farm, it does not matter that more players are participating. Why do you refuse to acknowledge and accept that, especially since that came from someone who has the actual numbers.

mrstealth.6701:

Active is controlling what is going on with your character. Dropping a few turrets, then not interacting with the game for several minutes, while your character continues gathering loot, is not what I would call active.

I disagree. If making gold is your goal, ArenaNet has no problem with doing it afk via Trading Post. You set up that you want to sell 1000 Hardened Leather Sections for 35 silver and then you can go afk for hours or days. To get those 1000 Leather you set up a buy order before for 27 silver (there are always people who sell instantly because they need the money now). When you return, you will have made gold without being active. How is that less afk-gold-farming than moving to the Centaur farm, setting up your turrets, inviting people, replacing turrets etc.

And the goal is always to make gold, for both traders and farmers.

mrstealth.6701:

The issue I was pointing out is inflation, not the price of leather. If the activity contributing to inflation does so through overfarming certain items, then those specific items can still see a price decrease due to a surplus, while inflation creates an overall devaluation of gold and a price increase with everything else. Of course, leather is not the only item being generated in this farm. The other loot is more spread out and less likely to create a surplus/price drop with specific items, and the junk/trophy items (or anything else sold to merchants) simply inject gold into the economy. This just contributes to inflation without having any considerable impact on the value of specific items in relation to each other.

End result, is that even though effective leather prices might go down, injecting more gold into the economy and giving a number of players a passive source of income creates inflation that lowers the value of gold and makes the price of everything increase. Even leather is effected by the inflation, but its increase in price is likely offset by the increased supply. If the impact of inflation was high enough, even leather with a massive surplus, could still see a price increase.

What do you think those farmers would do if they shut down the pony farm (or did before)? Just stand around in Lion’s Arch and chat? They would generate as much gold by selling crap to vendors as before Lake Doric. Or should I say “as little” and “copper”? Because the currency you create by selling minor runes and other crap is nothing. We only sell it because it’s easier than deleting. Maybe those farmers would play fractals instead and open Fractal Encryptions. Now those really add lots of gold to the market. I would guess that 1 player opening a few of them adds as much gold to the world as 100 farmers do by selling their crap to vendors.

“Manuscript of ‘This Book Is False’” sells for 60 silver
“Minor Rune of Grenth” sells for 19 copper

You have to loot and sell 315 minor runes to add as much money to the world as one Manuscript does. You get a fractal ancryption and key easily from a Tier 1 fractal. You need to kill a lot of ponies to come close to that.

tl:dr: there is no risk of inflation caused by farmers because they would always do something that gives them vendor loot, and also because the amount of money added to the world by selling random crap to vendors is like a drop in an ocean.

Faaris.8013:

I disagree. If making gold is your goal, ArenaNet has no problem with doing it afk via Trading Post. You set up that you want to sell 1000 Hardened Leather Sections for 35 silver and then you can go afk for hours or days. To get those 1000 Leather you set up a buy order before for 27 silver (there are always people who sell instantly because they need the money now). When you return, you will have made gold without being active. How is that less afk-gold-farming than moving to the Centaur farm, setting up your turrets, inviting people, replacing turrets etc.

And the goal is always to make gold, for both traders and farmers.

You are ignoring one very big difference between farming and flipping on the trading post. Farming generates new items from loot as well as injecting gold, while flipping is only shifting existing gold and items between players. Trading also takes some thought and knowledge of the market, or at least some research into what items you can semi-reliably turn a profit with. And it also comes with the risk of losing money, should prices shift before you are able to offload your supply.

On the other hand, afk farming has zero risk and can be done by a poorly trained chimp. You press a few buttons and let the loot pile up. There is no research, planning, or strategizing. And no risk of losing money.

Faaris.8013:

Sorry, but after reading your posts, I think you know little about markets but keep trying to correct others. What do you think those farmers would do if they shut down the pony farm (or did before)? Just stand around in Lion’s Arch and chat? They would generate as much gold by selling crap to vendors as before Lake Doric. Or should I say “as little” and “copper”? Because the currency you create by selling minor runes and other crap is nothing. We only sell it because it’s easier than deleting. Maybe those farmers would play fractals instead and open Fractal Encryptions. Now those really add lots of gold to the market. I would guess that 1 player opening a few of them adds as much gold to the world as 100 farmers do by selling their crap to vendors.

“Manuscript of ‘This Book Is False’” sells for 60 silver
“Minor Rune of Grenth” sells for 19 copper

You have to loot and sell 315 minor runes to add as much money to the world as one Manuscript does. You get a fractal ancryption and key easily from a Tier 1 fractal. You need to kill a lot of ponies to come close to that.

tl:dr: there is no risk of inflation caused by farmers because they would always do something that gives them vendor loot, and also because the amount of money added to the world by selling random crap to vendors is like a drop in an ocean.

The difference here is that everything else you bring up requires that they be actively playing the game. Sure, people can be actively playing the game and getting loot/items. But they’re very likely to spend much more time afk farming compared to actively playing the game. In fact, you were event trying to defend continuing to actively play one account, while passively gaining loot on others via afk farming. That’s giving them their “normal loot” on top of whatever they get from passively farming on however many accounts they have.

This is all putting more gold into the economy and skewing wealth distribution in favor of players putting in minimal effort/using exploitative methods. These players have a supply of easy gold, that has less value to them because it’s easier to acquire. You’re more likely to spend more gold, more willing to pay higher prices, when you have an easy, almost no effort, supply of gold. But those higher prices won’t even end up meaning better profits for the sellers, because the inflation pushes up the gold cost of everything they buy themselves. The only players that end up benefiting are the ones afk farming, while everyone else just gets hit with the impact of inflation and having a new class of money-printing scheme players messing up the game economy.

The core of this situation isn’t really any different than what botters create. And these are the same reasons why game devs have been trying to combat them for years. Left unchecked, they can completely destroy a game’s economy. Now, I don’t think these afk farmers are creating the level of impact that massive botting has shown it’s capable of, but it’s still not something that I think should just be allowed to continue.

If enough people stand around putting drops of water into the ocean, the world will eventually be flooded. Your drops might not matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, but you have to consider that everyone’s drops add up.

Faaris.8013:

mrstealth.6701:

The account is the entity that matters more to Anet. It doesn’t matter that you are still at your PC, or at another PC, playing on another account. If you are not interacting with the account in question, that account constitutes an inactive player.

But is that really so? From what I could collect from reading the forums, as long as you respond to a moderator when whispered, you are not afk. Which makes sense, because afk means away from keyboard, and replying to a whisper kind of proves you are not afk (unless you use a chat bot).

The “AFK” part of AFK farming is really a misnomer. When people talk about “AFK farming” it really refers to a broader spectrum of unattended game play. The fact that you are keeping enough of an eye on your unattended game play exploit to repsond to a GM doesn’t prove you’re not “AFK”, it just prevents the GM from being able to determine that you are exploiting the game. It’s like if you were doing 50mph over the speed limit but because you have a radar detector you’re able to slow down when you pass a speed trap. That doesn’t mean you not speeding, it just means you took measures to avoid being caught

Faaris.8013:

I disagree. If making gold is your goal, ArenaNet has no problem with doing it afk via Trading Post. You set up that you want to sell 1000 Hardened Leather Sections for 35 silver and then you can go afk for hours or days. To get those 1000 Leather you set up a buy order before for 27 silver (there are always people who sell instantly because they need the money now). When you return, you will have made gold without being active. How is that less afk-gold-farming than moving to the Centaur farm, setting up your turrets, inviting people, replacing turrets etc.

Wow, that is a horrible delusional attempt to justify unattended game play. The is nothing more to do than what you described. That’s simply buying low and selling high. That’s exactly how the trading post works.

Faaris.8013:

…
“Manuscript of ‘This Book Is False’” sells for 60 silver
“Minor Rune of Grenth” sells for 19 copper

You have to loot and sell 315 minor runes to add as much money to the world as one Manuscript does. You get a fractal ancryption and key easily from a Tier 1 fractal. You need to kill a lot of ponies to come close to that.

You are leaving a lot out of this. The engi farming is generating a lot more than just minor runes that sell for 19 copper. Each salvage might produce a rune, it might also produce mats worth a bit more than 19 copper. Surely with all the loot coming in from hours and hours of unattended game play there will be rares and exotics as well. There’s also the fact that opening the fractal boxes is not free. You might find a few keys but you’ll end up buying a lot of keys which will cut into what you get from the box. And you don’t always get something worth 60s, sometimes what you get is worth a bit less that 20s. And mayb the most important detail is that you’re not going to have Fractal Encryptions to open unless you actively play the game to get them and the keys to open them.

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Coincidence or not, I’m trusting Anet’s word on this, since they are the ones with the actual numbers. This farm is introducing less leather than the regular farm of that area, and that regular farm did nothing to reduce the cost of T6 leather. So this farm is not decreasing the cost of leather because its introducing more into the economy.

I think the most likely situation is that people thought this farm was working, and so they started selling their leather for cheaper, trying to offload it before the price “tanked”, and we end up with a minor dip in price. And now that people realize that the engineer farm doesn’t work, that will reverse itself relatively quickly.

Or while it produces less leather than the other way, there’s enough players doing the engi farm to make up for that and more.

Every item that comes from the heavy supply bags has shown its prices to be decreasing with its supply increasing. T6 fine mats are a bit impossible to analyze as there are so many external factors beyond the farm. Even the bags themselves have shown a slight decrease in price and and even greater increase in supply.

Players offloading their supply wouldn’t be causing all of this.

Are you still seriously trying to argue that Anet doesn’t know how much leather is being generated by this farm. Their comments didn’t say “less leather is being generated per player by this engineer farm”, the said, and I quote,

Chris Cleary

This area is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area

LESS LEATHER IS BEING GENERATED BY THIS FARM PERIOD. Stop trying to justify what you think is happening, because ANet has the actual numbers, and they show that you are just plain incorrect. Less leather is being generated by this farm, it does not matter that more players are participating. Why do you refuse to acknowledge and accept that, especially since that came from someone who has the actual numbers.

Supply has increased and prices have decreased for the following:

• Thick Leather
• Hardened Leather
• Gossamer Scraps
• Silk Scraps
• Onyx Core
• Onyx Lodestone
• Heavy Supply Bags

All associated with the engi farm and this started near the end of April when the engi farm became widely known.

That statement could very well mean that leather being farmed per player has decreased but more have started farming to compensate for it. He could also be referring to two areas: the original leather farm up the mountain and the area at the bottom. There are different interpretations of their comment which are all valid.

Chris Cleary

This area [at the bottom] is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area [at the bottom] has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area [on the mountain]

I never specifically stated that they did not know how much leather was generated. That was your interpretation of my post. Them being wrong is just one scenario among others such as their comment being misinterpreted. Given who it is, I’d lean towards the latter.

There are many times that I have referenced two things using the same word such as ‘they’ or ‘it’ to name a couple. Doing so using ‘area’ could very well be possible too.

I just read that as less leather is being generated by farming the bottom area and more by farming the top. Because players farm more on the bottom area they are generating less leather than they could by farming on the mountain.

Ofcourse prices still get influenced by both farms but its not decreasing as much as in could if players were farming more effienciently. Then again, its obvious that the engineer farm isnt going for efficiency and instead for the most passive way of generating loot.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I just read that as less leather is being generated by farming the bottom area and more by farming the top. Because players farm more on the bottom area they are generating less leather than they could by farming on the mountain.

Ofcourse prices still get influenced by both farms but its not decreasing as much as in could if players were farming more effienciently. Then again, its obvious that the engineer farm isnt going for efficiency and instead for the most passive way of generating loot.

Yes, that is what’s happening. I haven’t done it yet, as I don’t feel like I really need gold enough right now to participate in the turrent farm on one monitor and netflix and chill on the other…

kitten.4078:

Faaris.8013:

…
“Manuscript of ‘This Book Is False’” sells for 60 silver
“Minor Rune of Grenth” sells for 19 copper

You have to loot and sell 315 minor runes to add as much money to the world as one Manuscript does. You get a fractal ancryption and key easily from a Tier 1 fractal. You need to kill a lot of ponies to come close to that.

You are leaving a lot out of this. The engi farming is generating a lot more than just minor runes that sell for 19 copper. Each salvage might produce a rune, it might also produce mats worth a bit more than 19 copper. Surely with all the loot coming in from hours and hours of unattended game play there will be rares and exotics as well. There’s also the fact that opening the fractal boxes is not free. You might find a few keys but you’ll end up buying a lot of keys which will cut into what you get from the box. And you don’t always get something worth 60s, sometimes what you get is worth a bit less that 20s. And mayb the most important detail is that you’re not going to have Fractal Encryptions to open unless you actively play the game to get them and the keys to open them.

I found the defense more that a bit intellectually dishonest myself, and decided to do a quick bit of research. I don’t have any previous experience with the afk engis, so I went and stood with them for 30 minutes. End result, was a total of 48s 19c from only coin drops, junk trophies, and runes/sigils from salvaged gear drops. 50 people doing that for an hour would to add almost 50g to the game’s pool of gold.

Of course, the salvage value of gear and other drops was a much higher amount, pushing the entire experiment to over 5g in total profits. That’s 5g that I got for doing nothing more than pushing a few buttons every 5 minutes. I’m not sure on the earnings from Fractals, but I’d guess that I probably wouldn’t earn much more than 5g if I spent 30 minutes on them. Looking at where those figures were a year or so ago, I assume it would be less. Especially after the dailies were completed.

As far as I,m concerned, Anet gave us the mean to get the leather price down to something reasonable, we just aint doing it.

slashlizardy.9167:

FrizzFreston.5290:

I just read that as less leather is being generated by farming the bottom area and more by farming the top. Because players farm more on the bottom area they are generating less leather than they could by farming on the mountain.

Ofcourse prices still get influenced by both farms but its not decreasing as much as in could if players were farming more effienciently. Then again, its obvious that the engineer farm isnt going for efficiency and instead for the most passive way of generating loot.

Yes, that is what’s happening. I haven’t done it yet, as I don’t feel like I really need gold enough right now to participate in the turrent farm on one monitor and netflix and chill on the other…

I havent because I would forget to put turrets up again as Im focussed on what im watching or vice versa. To me a game you play is when you focus on it and entertain yourself and this passive farming is merely busy work to keep up the illussion youre playing a game.

This 5 minute turret business is akin to farmville where you check every 5 minutes whether your strawberries are done and replant them if they are. While perfect for a mobile game, for a supposed triple A game this is kind of out of place.

Ofcourse, it’s up to ArenaNet whether they want to encourage this or not. Though the update of two weeks ago seems like they don’t really planned this as a thing.

Personally I wouldnt mind if turrets or other spawned skills wouldnt function anymore after 30 seconds of inactivity.

Ha! We’ve already got mobile phone games,. anet calls them “adventures”

There is a way to reconcile the fact that leather prices have dropped with Anet’s statement that the engie farm brings in less leather.
The Bloodstone hides salvages to all tiers. The engie farm generates just t5 and t6.

Honestly the whole gathering and crafting system is a wreck. Some materials are gathered (plants, ore, lumber) and others are only from drops (rare materials, cloths, leather). The rare materials I can understand being from drops from specific creature types, but the leather and cloth should have been a part of the gathering system from the start.

blakkrskyrr.7413:

Honestly the whole gathering and crafting system is a wreck. Some materials are gathered (plants, ore, lumber) and others are only from drops (rare materials, cloths, leather). The rare materials I can understand being from drops from specific creature types, but the leather and cloth should have been a part of the gathering system from the start.

The bigger problem for me is on the crafting side. We would ideally need a system like in DAoC, where all gear is crafted, but due to gear permanently getting used up slowly, most of the time you use “99%” gear, or probably exotics in our case, only very rarely equipping 100% gear (Ascended) when the time is right.

Carighan.6758:

blakkrskyrr.7413:

Honestly the whole gathering and crafting system is a wreck. Some materials are gathered (plants, ore, lumber) and others are only from drops (rare materials, cloths, leather). The rare materials I can understand being from drops from specific creature types, but the leather and cloth should have been a part of the gathering system from the start.

The bigger problem for me is on the crafting side. We would ideally need a system like in DAoC, where all gear is crafted, but due to gear permanently getting used up slowly, most of the time you use “99%” gear, or probably exotics in our case, only very rarely equipping 100% gear (Ascended) when the time is right.

It sounds like a decent gold/materials sink for a game catering to a hardcore playerbase, but a horrible concept for GW2. The sink would get rendered useless by the majority of players only using cheap throwaway gear, and ignoring the higher quality items.

If my armor degraded over time to the point of being destroyed, I’d be running around in green/masterwork gear. I already feel that ascended armor is a waste of money outside of higher level fractals, and there is no way I would ever craft it if it was going to break later on. I wouldn’t even bother with the weapons if that was the system used.