Guild Wars 2

We all hate it, we all love it, most importantly, we can all agree, there has to be a better way to do it.

Leveling, is boring.

You can still be a die hard leveler who loves to make 80’s on the fly and even you will admit that doing it for the tenth time in a row, gets taxing, tiring, repetitive and downright mind numbing.

The biggest problem with Leveling, is not in the leveling itself, grinding is a method, and for some its enjoyable, but for a lot of us it is not.

So whats your alternatives?

World Vs World:
- This is a double edged sword, with a mass population server this works favorably, but if your population is low, it rarely ends well.
- You can use this as a means to get about 20 levels a day if you’re patient enough.
- Its a chore for the hardcore, but not so friendly for casuals.

Dungeons:
- Dependent on being a minimum of level 30+ to start using this method to reach levels.
- Fast per run.
- Dependent strongly on having people willing to run them.
- LFG has created a toxic community of Achievement level specific players that wont take you in unless you get to X achievement level, so you better farm achievements if you want to be apart of it.

Fractals:
- LFG, see Above.
- Good if you’re able to adapt on the fly, but you’ll be farming lower fractals for a while just to get fast levels.
- People rarely want to boost people this way, ever.

SPvP:
- You can buy Level up Tomes with successful PvP Glory oh wait-
- Future PvP methods might have better ways to add leveling to the game.

Crafting:
- Works if you are patient, and have A LOT of money or are willing to buy gems to make a lot of money.
- Not so good if you lack the above two.

Living Story:
- Most LS content will boost you to 80 and allow you to participate in Zergs.
- Effective, but repetitive and boring after a while.
- Depends strongly on grinding for the most part.
- Battle for Lions Arch also awards level up tomes for 100 found belongings acquired per mob roundup.
- Advise having strong AOE heavy class for this.

World Quest/Exploration:
- Grindtastic Heart Quest Farming and reliance on Events.
- Easier to do but slow as hell.
- Will take you quite some time to do solo.

Personal Story:
- Only really works if you have farmed to later levels before hand.
- Not the best way to level quickly as later quests become too hard for you to do alone.

Whats the problem then?

Leveling is a bandwagon, especially in a game like GW2, where the content is end game heavy, and earlier game light.

Before one says, there’s no end game, there is, it lasts 2 weeks an episode before moving on with or without you.

It also creates a degree of disappointment for those that cant keep up.

So really the problem is, we need to get to 80 faster, we also need more rewarding ways to level up, faster.

This is where I go into part 2 of the topic, how to make this happen.

For start, do we need more levels?

You mean like 100, or 200? Not really, Level 100 would be a nice round even number but I wouldn’t really think of going further than that, Leveling after 100 would be a luxury, plus its kind of pointless in the long term other than to have the bragging right of an extra 0 to your numbers.

So really, I think if we get to level 100, after that we should focus more upon alternative means of progression that could be used to expand expansions, rather than using level 110-120-130 etc etc.

Proposal:

The Skill Tiers System:

Kind of like we currently have, we have a system where by you require 5 skill points to advance to the next tier of skills, then 15, then so on and so forth.

I propose, that at level 100 you have an “unlock” system for “prestige” tier abilities, that require you to grind out constant skill points via challenges, levels, other methods, that continue to allow progression after the ultimate number is hit, giving people motivation to unlock more things.

System Example:

First you have to unlock the tier itself with a number of skill points, this number ranges heavily and heightens significantly over the course of the game, so for each tier, the number is more punishingly high.

You are not obliged to reach it, you simply have an end game to reach now, for example:

First tier, 50 skill points, every ability also costs a min of 10 skill points, and every class has 5 skills to unlock at this tier.

Next tier, 100 skill points, and every skill costs 30 skill points to unlock.

The number gets steeper, and steeper, giving a motive to continue playing one character for the long term, just as much as playing many characters.

But that brings us back to alts, how do we go about that?

We already have achievements, which award some XP benefits and other gains for the long term account wide, but they aren’t enough I feel to justify doing it for the umpteenth time.

Really this is where we need to reduce some things, and add others.

Leveling Changes:
- Heart Quests should have the amount of influence required to fill them reduced, and the amount of XP gained from completing them increased, for those now behind, as well as those who have many alts. This will re-incentive’s people to actually explore the entire world instead of farming a single part of it during LS just to get fast levels.
- Personal Story should be do-able from “any” level regardless of the present system, you should get an immediate boost to level 80 while in personal story zones, and be able to solo the entire thing (considering it is “personal” story) you should also be able to do it from any location on the map.
- Dungeons should have a soloable story mode, rather than a group required version, to allow players that want to explore the DE storyline to have an easier time enjoying it, and getting immersed into it, while explorable mode should be made more challenging, and equally more xp rewarding in contrast.
- I get 2.5 Bars of XP per Keep I capture, 3.5 per Castle and 1.5 Per Tower… this is not significant enough to justify farming it on WvW long term just to hit an XP cap, long story short, every one of these xp amounts should be increased to another bar, upping castle caps to nearly half a level, keep caps to a third, and tower caps to a 1/4 of your level.
- SPvP’s refined system should include an accessibly easier way to reach level cap, via leveling up in PvP, possibly for every rank you attain you get an instant “level up” booster for your chars account bound to one char per boost.

Now for the additions:
- Remake “activities” so that they now give XP to Leveling instead of PvP.
- Add a passive method of increasing XP over time, such as a contribution system to your personal story hub, maybe you can use this to act as player housing, and over time help develop more community based development.
- Add ‘secondary’ personal stories to zones, giving a small mini story quest that offers a moderate boost of xp per zone, maybe there’s more than 1.
- Add more zones to actually level in, instead of making zones level 80. Southsun for example never sees the light of day at all these days, make anyone that goes there instantly boosted to 80 so they can farm it at will for Karka shells and quick Zerging.
- More “types” of dailies, not just a single one but multiple, such as, daily living story, daily dungeon/fractals, daily world exploration etc etc etc, each one completed offers a single level a day.
- Completing a monthly automatically rewards a player with 5 levels.

So, now your probably wondering why this is all so important…

The answer is that the game itself caters currently to the level 80 crowd but neglects those that are new to it, making new content quite difficult to catch up on, and the key to solving that is to eliminate the leveling process as effectively as possible, by increasing the methods and quantities of xp someone is required to attain end game leveling.

Note, end game leveling, with a refined skill system, that will require months of people actually going to get those skill points, unlocking the tiers, getting the most interesting utility abilities in the game, honed with balance of course, over the course of time.

New unlockables could also be worked on, for example, once one hits level 80 they could have a “fractal mode” for dungeons, which allows players to enter a tiered, scale heavy dungeon run that grants significantly more marks for each dungeon, but also adds agony, and even ups the mobs damage, health, and abilities in some cases to make them even more difficult.

This isn’t about stopping the hardcore from having his shining moment as a competitive player, nor is it about pandering to casuals to make the game too easy.

Its about making it accessible, and fun to everyone.

And I believe that starts by making it more accessible, while adding a proper end game to this game, which will require months of true dedication to properly attain to its fullest.

Gee, don’t we already have some of the things you mentioned? And, wouldn’t gating all the ‘cool skills and utilities’ behind your suggestion just make people remark about how it is nothing but a grind to BiS(kill)? Wouldn’t that divide the player-base even more? As hard as it is to balance skills, I’m sure many would feel one wasn’t ‘play-worthy’ without said ‘cool’ skills. Unless, said skills were deemed worthless, and then players probably would not think they were worth chasing.

Still, I’m sure the Devs will consider your suggestion. =)

We already have a problem with that system Incul, its called Achievement points.

Ive already seen LFG groups where the min requirement to join is something as obnoxious as 7K or higher.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, adding this wouldn’t necessarily fix the problem, but what it does do is give people a goal they “can” achieve at any time, instead of one that demands permanent activity.

This is something that says to you “any time you want me, you can have me, you just have to work to earn me” while Achievement Points are farmed regularly and require you to be actively farming them, every day, just to get to the kind of levels the Elitist segment of Hardcore’s want.

PS: Hardcore’s themselves are not Elitist, but there are a lot of Elitists that consider themselves Hardcore gamers. These people are the real plight on the community, people that have no desire to let anyone rise to their level and would rather feel everyone should be in the mud below it.

What we need is a system that can allow the nobody to become the somebody, if they try to, this skill system would work more effectively than the achievement point system does, because its permanent, its there when ever you earn it, rather than demanding being actively on the game just to get any actual achievements.

There is a great plight on mmo gaming in the Elitist, and the Elitist thrives on the nobody being below them.

GW2 was selling itself as a game that catered to the nobody so that he/she could enjoy his or her game as they choose, and become somebody when they felt ready to commit to it.

That, is the way gaming should be, not casual, not unfair, but attainable, when you want, if you’re willing to dedicate yourself to it.

Now you’re probably wondering:

Whats the problem with leveling then?

Leveling itself is the problem, its simply an outdated method of achieving this, and doesn’t allow new people to play with vets, or to get to know many vets since they’re too busy and not interested in boosting some new kid to 80 when they can just play the game and ignore them.

This toxicity is what risks destroying the community and soul of GW2 before it has a chance to thrive.

So by making the process easier, and more rewarding, it also encourages the vets to come back, because they will have skills to unlock, all the while, helping new comers to reach the end game to start unlocking them.

Right now, there is no incentive to cooperate, with this, there is “every” incentive, to do so.

Well, I have 6 Level 80s, and I don’t act like what you describe, at all. Nor have I come in contact with those that do. I’m not saying they don’t exist.

I’m not an Achievement grinder, either. I just play the game as I see fit. I suppose it is true that those that didn’t start at launch will be behind in APs. I’m not sure how to fix that, other than a reset….and we all know how well that goes over. Lol.

If you think your plan solves the problem, then I hope ArenaNet feels that way, too! Good luck. =)

Also…I can’t say I see more newbies in the lower zones than 80s. I spend much of my time there….as a Level 80, and as a under-Level-10.

Maybe I just don’t understand your concept here. But, to me, it sounds like something more to strive for before one has reached max level. I’m not sure how that helps, I hope the Devs do. =)

It’s through levelling that you get to explore the game world. It may be tedious for someone on the 10th character, but for a new player it’s fun as you gradually learn what Tyria holds. If the designers try to accelerate the levelling process too much (as has happened in WoW) it is almost like an admission that most of the game world is uninteresting and to be skipped as fast as possible.

In my opinion leveling is a form of RPG progression that is a bit of a relic from earlier, single player games and it’s just taken for granted that it should be in every title that calls itself an RPG. Game developers seem to consider it additional content to force players to level each class. i.e. “You have to level each of our 8 classes to 80.. what an enormous amount of replay value!”

I understand the use of leveling as a sort of tutorial mechanism to introduce players to a class and then familiarize them with the skills so they can comfortably choose end game gear and load outs. However, some of us don’t value this aspect of leveling and would be better suited having immediate access to all class skills and functionality. I’m definitely one of those types of people, so I would be perfectly content to play an MMORPG that did not feature leveling.

Still, I realize there are people who enjoy this sort of progressions.. so here we sit.

I’ve never noticed any issue with leveling in GW2.

If you’re new and trying to catch up some friends in order to play with them, they’ll not have any problem on giving some tips, helping with story mode dungeons and even carrying you through some explorables.

If there are no max level fiends waiting for you, there’s no reason for rushing to 80 at all.
Following your personal story and exploring the maps you’re brought to (completing hearts, gathering and playing DEs that are totally new for you) is usually enough for not feeling underleveled.
Even if it happens (probably caused by not being able to play Story Mode Dungeons, which is a bit painful if the daily isn’t up), there are still many side-activities that can help you to catch up with the story: a bit of crafting, living story, WvW (and now even sPvP through tomes), queensdale champion trains … even going out your way for some additional daily (like Shiverpeak killer on an human toon) can give a good chunk of XP from both the exploration and the daily itself.

And, of course, once you already have one or more level 80 characters, there are several ways to speed up the leveling alt if you want to do it.

Vargamonth.2047:

If there are no max level fiends waiting for you, there’s no reason for rushing to 80 at all.

How about trait points, skill pool and investment in max level gear load outs?

Some of us would like access to a fully spec’d level 80 character sooner rather than later. I don’t enjoy playing the handicapped version and the content available to leveling toons is very monotonous after a while. I will say to Arenanet’s credit that GW2’s leveling is easier than in most MMORPGs but it’s still boring(to me).

mooty.4560:

Vargamonth.2047:

If there are no max level fiends waiting for you, there’s no reason for rushing to 80 at all.

How about trait points, skill pool and investment in max level gear load outs?

Some of us would like access to a fully spec’d level 80 character sooner rather than later. I don’t enjoy playing the handicapped version and the content available to leveling toons is very monotonous after a while. I will say to Arenanet’s credit that GW2’s leveling is easier than in most MMORPGs but it’s still boring(to me).

The problem is that a maxed character trivializes a good amount of the available content and makes it even more monotonous and boring to play.

If I have to be honest, the leveles between 30 and 80 are completely useless and shouldn’t have existed ever. The game could have worked even better without levels at all.
This, however, is a quite radical change that could have easily alienated a lot of MMO/RPG players, which is obviously undesired from a bussiness perspective.

Developers probably didn’t want to take many risk in this matter and I honestly think they did a fairly decent job managing the boredom of leveling up.
It could have been better, that’s for sure, but I have no complaints on it.

Vargamonth.2047:

The problem is that a maxed character trivializes a good amount of the available content and makes it even more monotonous and boring to play.

Actually, as you might suspect, I think this content is already trivial. I think game developers view it as content but it’s very superficial at best.

It’s akin to most grindy features in MMOs where you have to attain a certain rank or number of items to reach a goal and the developers mistake the time required to reach these goals as actual content. You might be doing the same monotonous thing day after day because you want that carrot at the end of the stick but it takes you three months.. is it three months you really enjoyed playing the game? Not for me.

Now leveling is generally better than most long term grind because of the story aspects and especially the first time through the game as it’s an introductory process.. but I still find it trivial.

Terrible idea. Would not want.

I’m imagining the OP as the same kind of person who complains the game has no content. Flash-levels all characters to skip the content and beauty that exits in Tyria; complains there is nothing to do.

I know that wasn’t the intent of the original post, but that’s the kind of play style that I believe leads to those complaints. And don’t get me wrong, I do understand the desire to get your characters to 80 quickly, especially when you’ve done it multiple times. I’m just not convinced its always for the best to do so.

Here’s a suggestion. I you have X characters of level 80, you can make all your new characters level 80 upon creation.

If it’s so boring don’t do it then as nobody forces you to nor is it required to have multiple level 80s.