Guild Wars 2

Plague.3174:

What I can say is that I don’t feel rewarded for what I’m doing at lvl 80.

Made cof, arah and ac more than 50 times each and I don’t feel fine with having to farm months to get legendary stuff that adds just a different “look” and no special stats to your character.

Meeting everyday people with full mf set and having to carry them and their “pirate bird” all the way through the dungeons makes me angry.

This made me quit

Plague.3174:

What I can say is that I don’t feel rewarded for what I’m doing at lvl 80.

Made cof, arah and ac more than 50 times each and I don’t feel fine with having to farm months to get legendary stuff that adds just a different “look” and no special stats to your character.

Meeting everyday people with full mf set and having to carry them and their “pirate bird” all the way through the dungeons makes me angry.

This is plain inconsiderate and I’ve often considered asking people their builds before joining a party. While I do have a full set of MF gear, (I’m one of the lucky pre-nov-15th players who carried a lot of wealth forward…lucky for me since I make next to nothing now.) I spent more and chose items that do not gimp damage much, so I can at least remain useful in a group. With Jatoto’s Armor upgraded from scavenger to traveller, I chose to take my primary hit on vitality since, as a necro, I have a lot of life anyway plus death shroud. However, if I find I’m going down too much, I also purchased a separate gear bag specifically to carry my entire set of normal gear (Armor, weapons and trinkets…14 items) with me at all times so I can quickly swap if need be, without having to find a bank. I just need a quite cornet for 30 seconds. There is nothing worse than getting in a situation with someone who’s useless.

Raine.1394:

1) If you don’t do dungeons, the case this month, it takes 30 days to get an amulet. For me to obtain one it would be 30 days, that’s why I used that number.

Seriously? Do 5 dungeon runs. Don’t complain about this if you are so unwilling to play some aspect of the game even a minute amount. Get on gw2lfg.com, join an Ascalonian Catacombs full run group, beat it, do 2 more runs, and have your 10 extra laurels (assuming that is all you have left) in less than 2 hours. I know some people don’t like dungeons but to detest them so much as to not spend 2 hours in an entire month doing that part of the monthly is ludicrous.

I’m not against people “whining” and “complaining” when what they are actually doing can be better described as criticizing. If you aren’t willing to do something you don’t like for just 2 hours over the entire month and that is the only thing keeping you from getting this amulet with everyone else, then boo hoo. The 2 hours you spend on dungeons now equates to you having the amulet for aprox. 12 days more.

I’m not getting one, I spent my laurels on other things because I didn’t want to get an amulet before trying some of the other cool items. If you have some phobia of dungeons in a fantasy world then don’t do them and wait until you get your daily laurels or they implement another method of getting them which I’m fairly confident they will do.

P.S. To the posters above, I love the pirate bird… so nehhhhh. lol jk

Anyone who dislikes the game in my opinion are the people who aren’t play the full expierence of it.

Killing the same stuff, or doing the same events over and over whether you get loot or not you’ll get bored and soon get a feeling that the whole game is like that.

It’s great to explore, meet new people, and if you truly get bored try a new profession and do something new with it.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Anyone who dislikes the game in my opinion are the people who aren’t play the full expierence of it.

Killing the same stuff, or doing the same events over and over whether you get loot or not you’ll get bored and soon get a feeling that the whole game is like that.

It’s great to explore, meet new people, and if you truly get bored try a new profession and do something new with it.

I CANT experience the whole game, because I can’t experiment with builds, because since 11/15 my loot has been kitten on a stick, and so it has been with half the game’s population, while the other half rakes in 3-5 ectos an hour and are happy as clams, and this happens consistently and has happend consistently for months on end.

This is not RNG, this is not luck, this is a bug ANet refuses to acknowledge and actively fix, and, for the MANY people with this bug it’s taking the “game experience” out back, beating it with a tire iron, and finishing it behind the ear with a .22 .

Thomassassinate.9370:

Anyone who dislikes the game in my opinion are the people who aren’t play the full expierence of it.

Your opinion would be flawed. This statement implies that the only people with concerns about the game are people that leave out chunks of content such as dungeons, fractals, crafting, jumping puzzles, PvP, WvW, PvE, achievements, or exploring. This is simply not the case.

However, if you believe I have misunderstood you, perhaps you could define what you mean by “play the full experience.”

MaRko.3165:

silvermember.8941:

I was there in orr when after the 5 day when people just grind and grind and did orr and CoF for hours straight.

Egads man!! (LOL!!) It took me almost 2 months of 2-4hrs a night to make it to Orr! (man I must play slow….. )

I think that the developers may have under estimated how quickly players can run through content. I think the ever lower drop rates will slow things down as well as if they rework the dungeons there will some delay as while players figure out the new mechanics. The new ‘guild quests’ sound interesting for those players and this title appears to have a dedicated development crew behind it that are devoted to making it better. I still think that crafting ought to be supported more and voice comm while in a dungeon instance would not be a bad thing.

IDK, I typically play through a dozen or more titles a year. Its very rare that a game will ‘grab’ me for more than a month. GW2 was one of the few that did.

(BTW: I like your sig….. too true….)

I play multiple games as well. I don’t believe in dedicating your life to only one game. variety is the spice of life, with so many greats why only play one game.
As a result of guild wars 2 have a backlog of 10 games and after I get over my “dungeon phase” I am going back to other games (right now I am playing fire emblem).

My sig is from years of watching MMO players make that mistake. They get excited about a game, call it the greatest thing since slice bread, once they play it they praise it more then after they play enough of it, they complain how it was disappointing. Now usually, its not a problem until you realize instead of admitting that they dreamed up or hype the game in their minds and move on, they stay and QQ all day long. The worst part is, they don’t learn and will continue the cycle.

Assyrian.4827:

Hawkian.6580:

Assyrian.4827:

Finaly someone who realy understand what is wrong with GW2
+1.

I don’t expect this to have any impact on your view, but I want to make a brief point…

While EasyModeX is more than entitled to his complaints and you’re more than entitled to agree with him, my fervent hope is that ArenaNet does not listen to or alter the game around them.

Changing the game to accomodate the things that bother players like you would be unwise from a developmental standpoint- counterintuitive as that might seem. I stand with the overwhelmingly content silent majority playing this game, and who will continue to do so- it makes much more sense to design based around what they want, retaining them and me, with the unfortunate tradeoff that players like you might get frustrated enough to abandon the game and move onto something else.

It sucks to have any player stop playing a game because they want it to be different, but it’s important to understand the sort of dynamics at play here.

For a game to be fun you need to use yor brain.
In GW2 I don’t need to do that, the only time I do is to dodge the red circle.

Obviously you don’t PvP, so ofc you would make such a ridiculous statement. Ironically, dodging the giant red circles is more than what most games would require from the player.

In PvE, I agree but then again there is no PvE game (MMORPG) that require you to use your brain. The only difficult thing in EVERY PvE game is either level difference and not having the right gear. Everything else is mindless button mashing.

plasmacutter.2709:

Thomassassinate.9370:

Anyone who dislikes the game in my opinion are the people who aren’t play the full expierence of it.

Killing the same stuff, or doing the same events over and over whether you get loot or not you’ll get bored and soon get a feeling that the whole game is like that.

It’s great to explore, meet new people, and if you truly get bored try a new profession and do something new with it.

I CANT experience the whole game, because I can’t experiment with builds, because since 11/15 my loot has been kitten on a stick, and so it has been with half the game’s population, while the other half rakes in 3-5 ectos an hour and are happy as clams, and this happens consistently and has happend consistently for months on end.

This is not RNG, this is not luck, this is a bug ANet refuses to acknowledge and actively fix, and, for the MANY people with this bug it’s taking the “game experience” out back, beating it with a tire iron, and finishing it behind the ear with a .22 .

I have also experienced this with my rare drop rate and ecto drop rate from salvages. Ever since about a month and a half ago, every exotic I salvage yields 0-1 ecto while rares are generally the same. More often 0. Then once in a blue moon it’s more than 1.
So not only am I getting less rares, but less ecto from those few rares I do get. Almost like a double nerf.

Mods have denied a change in drops, but that’s obviously not the case. I used to get more than 5 ecto per day and now I’m lucky if I get one or two.

silvermember.8941:

My sig is from years of watching MMO players make that mistake. They get excited about a game, call it the greatest thing since slice bread, once they play it they praise it more then after they play enough of it, they complain how it was disappointing. Now usually, its not a problem until you realize instead of admitting that they dreamed up or hype the game in their minds and move on, they stay and QQ all day long. The worst part is, they don’t learn and will continue the cycle.

I bought the game blindly on a friend’s recommendation. I had no preconceptions about the game, only low expectations knowing it was an MMO. When I got in to the game I was pleasantly surprised and it wasn’t the horrible grind that you always hear about from the the Korean cookie cutter MMOs, Lineage II, D3, and so many others. That all changed in November when loot crashed in to the ground, creating a huge crater of nothingness. Now, THIS is what I expected from the start and why I’ve never bothered with Lineage II, D3, Aion, Shaiya, or anything else. Life is too short to grind away doing the same stuff endlessly pursuing that carrot that you might never get to. Lemmings running of a cliff…

I still play for the social aspect and have even switched to a more active guild, however, I have given up any hope of getting good drops, which is fine, and I think I’m happier now that I don’t care anymore. However, outside the gems I already have, which I’ve been saving for instant repair kits, one of the few non-cosmetic, actually useful items in the gem store, I’ve also committed to not spending a single penny in the gem store. ArenaNet has change the game I bought and made loot a hopeless situation, why should I give them any more money?

silvermember.8941:

In PvE, I agree but then again there is no PvE game (MMORPG) that require you to use your brain. The only difficult thing in EVERY PvE game is either level difference and not having the right gear. Everything else is mindless button mashing.

I disagree. If the NPC enemies are written well, with enough randomness build in their algorithms, PvE can be very good and require you to actually think and strategist. GW2 also included PvE elements that requires pure agility and control, jumping puzzles being a prime example.

This sounds like another of those doomsaying threads full of tinfoil hate conspiracies if not absurd scenarios that will never happen.
GW2 will live years and years like GW1 simply because it makes money, and it will make them for many many years to come.

And it’s surely not some “ESO” with clunky 1990 combat to draw a player who really likes GW2 away.

Avatar.1923:

Jezath.7395:

I think the new changes coming and the living story are arenanets counter to these new mmo releases like neverwinter and ESO.

Until ESO’s business model comes out in the open i really think they are more worried about neverwinter as itsfree to play and free to download..

problem is; neverwinter looks and play like kitten, there is almost no customization, every class can only use “1” weapon. animations are choppy. it isnt true to d&d 4th ed at all,
overall this game is almost dead on arrival in my book.

oh thank god. I may just check it out now.

silvermember.8941:

I play multiple games as well. I don’t believe in dedicating your life to only one game. variety is the spice of life, with so many greats why only play one game.
As a result of guild wars 2 have a backlog of 10 games and after I get over my “dungeon phase” I am going back to other games (right now I am playing fire emblem).

My sig is from years of watching MMO players make that mistake. They get excited about a game, call it the greatest thing since slice bread, once they play it they praise it more then after they play enough of it, they complain how it was disappointing. Now usually, its not a problem until you realize instead of admitting that they dreamed up or hype the game in their minds and move on, they stay and QQ all day long. The worst part is, they don’t learn and will continue the cycle.

:) For years I’ve seen the same thing happen with single player games, lots of marketing hoopla before release, even glowing reviews and 15-30d afterwards the reality sets in – the title is missing some key elements that were hyped and the press simply overlooked countless things that broken in their reviews.

In the early days it was fairly common to get a ‘dud’ The paid reviews that the printed publications put out never really could be trusted and unless you waited for some trusted friends to try the title out 1st (they might be doing the same thing with you) you were left with the choice of taking a gamble or waiting. The internet, forums and open beta’s have helped – if you can wade through the ‘fanboys’ and the seemingly spoiled brats that complain about everything until they are blue in the fingers.

Leamas.5803:

silvermember.8941:

In PvE, I agree but then again there is no PvE game (MMORPG) that require you to use your brain. The only difficult thing in EVERY PvE game is either level difference and not having the right gear. Everything else is mindless button mashing.

I disagree. If the NPC enemies are written well, with enough randomness build in their algorithms, PvE can be very good and require you to actually think and strategist. GW2 also included PvE elements that requires pure agility and control, jumping puzzles being a prime example.

well I guess there is a difference in skill between me and you. Most “hard” bosses have cheap mechanics, sort of like “SNK boss syndrome”. And btw there isn’t an IF hardly any mmo bosses have a brain or are smart, just cheap tricks.

I know I am waiting for Elder Scrolls Online. GW2 wasn’t as fun as I was thinking it would be. I know I like to craft which for GW2 is a huge gold sink.

Also, I was disappointed largely with the change to the Neco from GW1. I loved being a Necro in GW1.

There are thing I enjoyed about the game certainly, but the game has turned off so many friends and even my wife from playing. It is fun for those that love to play the TP or do dungeons all day long.

ESO will let you do what you want to do. GW2 has me feeling forced to do a single path to 80. If you start as a profession you often will be leveling in those lands. However, there are a fine amount of hearts and just a very simple personal story for you to do.

ES games I often hardly touch the main for a while. Heck, I run into more dungeons and find bandits then sell their stuff off. I have never been poor for long in any ES game.

The fact is that GW2 has some heavy competition coming soon. If they made the economy more enjoyable I might bother. I know my wife doesn’t like playing since the way she pays for armor is by me funding her. GW2 is easy for us at 80, but I knew a lot of people that didn’t find that one path and found themselves getting bored before maxing their levels out.

MaRko.3165:

In the early days it was fairly common to get a ‘dud’ The paid reviews that the printed publications put out never really could be trusted and unless you waited for some trusted friends to try the title out 1st (they might be doing the same thing with you) you were left with the choice of taking a gamble or waiting. The internet, forums and open beta’s have helped – if you can wade through the ‘fanboys’ and the seemingly spoiled brats that complain about everything until they are blue in the fingers.

LOL And what do you consider “the early days”? For me, the early days started when the Commodore Vic-20 was cutting edge technology and 4 colors on the screen at the same time was something to behold. What was that…around 1982, give or take? For me, I miss the days when game designers actually had to write decent content, not fancy graphics, to draw people in. That said, “duds” were as common in the 80’s and 90’s as they are now. Duds these days are just more deceptive and suck more people in, with fancy graphics and no content. All most designers these days are looking for is the sale and aren’t looking for that staying power of something like Legend of Zedla, which started in 1986 or Elder Scrolls, which started in 1992. Lore is what drives these titles for so long, not graphics. Keeping people interested in the content is much more important than making them go ohh an ahh over the graphics.

I have a trivia question for you…what’s the longest running video game tile in history? I’ll give you a hint…it was an adventure game series that started in 1977 and had no graphics at all, it spawned 13 sequels/spin-offs, most recently in 2009, with a short-lived MMO. Good writing and lore is what propels a game that long…not graphics. I can’t speak for the MMO since I didn’t play it, but the other games I played in the series were excellent….and you actually had to think.

I’m not saying any of this applies to GW2, as I actually find the writing in GW2 decent for what it is, not a lot of thinking, but it’s not that kind of game. However, to imply games today are any better than the games of old is just plain incorrect, unless all you’re after is graphics. Most games I play today are shallow and lack any real depth to their underlying stories. Unfortunately, this is the game industry of today and options are limited. Luckily, there is a thriving retro gaming industry as well as many great games can be bought for pennies at places like eBay, Value Village and garage sales. I actively collect PS-One, PS2, PS3, Wii and Nintendo Gamecube games as well having a huge collection of 80s-90s PC games.

Kakeru.2873:

Anakin.9765:

Kakeru.2873:

Blacklight.2871:

Kandrick.8054:

Anakin.9765:

Again, I don’t see leaving the current system resulting in a dead game, especially not soon. I do, however, think the game would start to grow at a higher rate if the system was tweaked.

I don’t know, maybe we just have different takes on what a “dead game” is.

By dead game I don’t mean nobody playing it. To me a dead game is one that is shrinking. Once a games player base starts shrinking it’s very difficult to pull it back into line. Investment gets cut, updates reduce, more people leave, difficult to attract new players and the cycle continues until they eventually pull the plug.

The bottom line is that most other games make returning to them a bit of a chore and something you need to be committed to. GW2 keeps the red carpet rolled out long after you’ve left, so you are always welcomed back. They even hold the door open for you. So when people leave, it will tend to be for shorter periods, with a much higher chance that they will return. That’s how the game will stay alive.

You never need to quit GW2. You just go off and play something else for a while.

The thing is, this statment is wrong. I know many a people who have out right quit the game. Just because it becomes free to play after you purchase it, it doesn’t mean u can never quit.

In saying that everyone free to play mmorpg people have played actually never quit becuase it’s free and they can go back any time they want just like GW". But that isn’t the case. Normally people quit for reasons like not liking mechanics or game breaking problems that aren’t fixed or never get fixed. Or a ever dying spvp community which is sending pvpers away to actual competitve pvp games they won’t come back.

And I have to say I disagree. He said “higher chance that they will return” not that everyone will come back. It only seems logical that free-to-play games are more appealing to jump back in simply for the ease and the free part.

You saying you know people that quit and won’t come back doesn’t make his statement wrong. I’ve talked to many people that say they don’t worry to much about staying hooked to the game for the simple reason they can come and go as they please. I know many people that have this attitude.

I won’t say it is the general attitude, but I would say the percentage is quite a bit higher here than for a pay-to-play for obvious reasons.

I would also like to point out that I feel like many players that quit this early on in a game’s life are simply realizing it is not the game for them. Let’s just face it that many players came to GW2 without doing their research and expected the typical MMO.

Again, I’m trying to not generalize, but this is just the vibe I’m getting.

Also your speaking too much from experience the cast is the competitive pvp community is drying up this is fact, the total amount of NA competitive teams is 2, and EU i’m not sure (even know i’m from eu :/).

There’s no way to tell we are both speaking out of experience neither of use are right. While I know a lot of people who once they dislike a product they move onto the next product. Not stating that as fact though.

I agree that what I was stating was not fact. That’s why I clearly stated that was from my personal experience and I was trying to not generalize everyone.

I was just letting you know that your experience with players quitting and not returning is not an attitude shared among everyone. I would still argue that free-to-play games would have a higher percentage of players returning for content patches. This isn’t fact, this is simply based on my own little sample. That and it would seem more likely.

Saying neither of us are right is kind of silly as we are both on opposite sides. One of us has to be pretty much right, right?

Having fewer competitive PvP teams is expected, I would say. The system we currently have just isn’t that great for e-sports, but I suspect the changes being made in the near future could have an impact on this.

EasymodeX.4062:

Anakin.9765:

I would also like to point out that I feel like many players that quit this early on in a game’s life are simply realizing it is not the game for them. Let’s just face it that many players came to GW2 without doing their research and expected the typical MMO.

That, or they are discovering that GW2 is, in fact, a typical MMO when ANet advertised something different.

I just have to disagree. I was referring to players quitting due to lack of raids and crazy gear progression. We have very little.

GaiusJuliusCasear.7253:

I know I am waiting for Elder Scrolls Online. GW2 wasn’t as fun as I was thinking it would be. I know I like to craft which for GW2 is a huge gold sink.

ESO will let you do what you want to do. GW2 has me feeling forced to do a single path to 80. If you start as a profession you often will be leveling in those lands. However, there are a fine amount of hearts and just a very simple personal story for you to do.

ES games I often hardly touch the main for a while. Heck, I run into more dungeons and find bandits then sell their stuff off. I have never been poor for long in any ES game.

Keep in mind…this is “ESO” and not “ES”. Don’t count your chickens quite yet. The dynamics of the on-line game are going to be vastly different than a traditional ES game. You’re not likely going to be able to become a thief, a warrior, a wizard and an assassin on the same character like in Skyrim, you won’t own a house nor will you have unlimited console access to modify the game. However, I too am hoping that crafting in ESO will be more reasonable as I also like crafting and crafting in GW2 is a waste.

That said, remember this is an MMO, and while it is ES and WILL be held up to a high standard by those playing it, it will have many limitations not present in a single player ES game. A lot of people playing will be ES players and not be traditional MMO players and may be expecting Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim mashed in to an MMO and that will likely not be the case. This is the biggest danger to this game and could ultimately spell it’s doom. There are also many things we don’t know, such as billing model, in-game economy, things like that. God I hope they don’t do a player driven trading post like in GW2. I consider it the single weakest part of the game. I wouldn’t care about the loot drops so much if the prices in the TP were controlled.

So, I’m not giving up my GW2 keys quite yet. I just learned how to enjoy the game again after the loot nerfs in the last few months and not quite willing to jump blindly in to a new MMO, even if it is ES.

This a f2p game and I have no commitment keeping me here. So, I might give ANet a hard time over loot and dynamics I consider broken, but that’s my job as a player, to report things I don’t like. At the end of the day, I still love the game, otherwise I’d just leave and not bother report anything at all.

Leamas.5803:

silvermember.8941:

My sig is from years of watching MMO players make that mistake. They get excited about a game, call it the greatest thing since slice bread, once they play it they praise it more then after they play enough of it, they complain how it was disappointing. Now usually, its not a problem until you realize instead of admitting that they dreamed up or hype the game in their minds and move on, they stay and QQ all day long. The worst part is, they don’t learn and will continue the cycle.

I bought the game blindly on a friend’s recommendation. I had no preconceptions about the game, only low expectations knowing it was an MMO. When I got in to the game I was pleasantly surprised and it wasn’t the horrible grind that you always hear about from the the Korean cookie cutter MMOs, Lineage II, D3, and so many others. That all changed in November when loot crashed in to the ground, creating a huge crater of nothingness. Now, THIS is what I expected from the start and why I’ve never bothered with Lineage II, D3, Aion, Shaiya, or anything else. Life is too short to grind away doing the same stuff endlessly pursuing that carrot that you might never get to. Lemmings running of a cliff…

I still play for the social aspect and have even switched to a more active guild, however, I have given up any hope of getting good drops, which is fine, and I think I’m happier now that I don’t care anymore. However, outside the gems I already have, which I’ve been saving for instant repair kits, one of the few non-cosmetic, actually useful items in the gem store, I’ve also committed to not spending a single penny in the gem store. ArenaNet has change the game I bought and made loot a hopeless situation, why should I give them any more money?

Dead on. ANet should listen to this, it’s the general consensus of everyone who does not have a “lucky account” after the 11/15 patch.

GaiusJuliusCasear.7253:

I know I am waiting for Elder Scrolls Online. GW2 wasn’t as fun as I was thinking it would be. I know I like to craft which for GW2 is a huge gold sink.

Also, I was disappointed largely with the change to the Neco from GW1. I loved being a Necro in GW1.

There are thing I enjoyed about the game certainly, but the game has turned off so many friends and even my wife from playing. It is fun for those that love to play the TP or do dungeons all day long.

ESO will let you do what you want to do. GW2 has me feeling forced to do a single path to 80. If you start as a profession you often will be leveling in those lands. However, there are a fine amount of hearts and just a very simple personal story for you to do.

ES games I often hardly touch the main for a while. Heck, I run into more dungeons and find bandits then sell their stuff off. I have never been poor for long in any ES game.

The fact is that GW2 has some heavy competition coming soon. If they made the economy more enjoyable I might bother. I know my wife doesn’t like playing since the way she pays for armor is by me funding her. GW2 is easy for us at 80, but I knew a lot of people that didn’t find that one path and found themselves getting bored before maxing their levels out.

You’re not judging ESO a little early on, are you? It seems people are expecting a game like Oblivion or Skyrim, but online with tons of people. This is not what they’re doing. This is not something they can do.

It is an MMO. To make such a series into an MMO, they will have to sacrifice many things. You’ll have the story, you’ll have some Elder Scrolls spice, but you won’t have Skyrim.

This isn’t speculation, this has been brought up many times in news releases. They just recently realized the game would be nice with an optional first person view. I want the game to do well, don’t get me wrong, but it is not going to be what you described.

Also, if you feel GW2 forced you down a linear leveling path, I would find it hard to believe you have ever played another MMO.

Hawkian.6580:

Dante.1508:

Heijincks.9267:

Kandrick.8054:

So without a loot rule change I think it will soon be a dead game.

Is loot seriously that super important enough that bad drops means GW2 is dead?

Yes.

Does anyone else feel like GW2 is quite simply not a loot-driven game?

If anyone out there considers the GW2 loot to be this much of an issue (and especially if you also disliked Diablo 3), I wanna take a moment and plug Path of Exile. It’s completely free.

I did! It’s an awesome game in fact.

I’d still be playing if it wasn’t suffering from some serious desync issues.

Leamas.5803:

I have a trivia question for you…what’s the longest running video game tile in history? I’ll give you a hint…it was an adventure game series that started in 1977 and had no graphics at all, it spawned 13 sequels/spin-offs, most recently in 2009, with a short-lived MMO. Good writing and lore is what propels a game that long…not graphics. I can’t speak for the MMO since I didn’t play it, but the other games I played in the series were excellent….and you actually had to think.

I’m not saying any of this applies to GW2, as I actually find the writing in GW2 decent for what it is, not a lot of thinking, but it’s not that kind of game. However, to imply games today are any better than the games of old is just plain incorrect, unless all you’re after is graphics. Most games I play today are shallow and lack any real depth to their underlying stories. Unfortunately, this is the game industry of today and options are limited. Luckily, there is a thriving retro gaming industry as well as many great games can be bought for pennies at places like eBay, Value Village and garage sales. I actively collect PS-One, PS2, PS3, Wii and Nintendo Gamecube games as well having a huge collection of 80s-90s PC games.

The first computer game I played was ‘Adventure’ compiled to run on “Reality” by Microdata(Pick OS) in 80-81, my 1st computer purchased at “Toys-r-Us” – A VIC20 which generally fell to the wayside when I picked up a surplus VT131. The VT got used on my 1st ‘real’ computer a PDP11/23 that sits in my garage. I played ZorkI/II/III on that. I finally broke down and bought an AT-Clone in the late 80’s.

The only game I can think of is the “Ultima” series which I played alot of until getting stuck on a ‘Underworld’ spin off somewhere between a rock and lava.

Yes, developers did actually include something more than a ‘pamphlet’ in those days and I can fondly recall some all night dungeon crawls. We’ve come a long way.

Personally I play games for entertainment. I like good looking 1st person 3D graphics and proper 5.1 sound. While I like a good story it won’t save ugly graphics. I’ll play FPS, Action, Adventure and RPG games. I may not finish all the games that I buy. There still are a few duds on the market and some I just don’t like the play.

In the last year I likely logged more hours on Skyrim than any other title. The drop rate (like GW2) sucked but the crafting made up for it. The two features I liked about GW2 is level labeling and the dynamic leveling. Something that the single player market could take hints from. Decent writing and acceptable voice acting coupled with graphics that I could push into a beautiful stereoscopic 3D along with full 5.1 sound it was awe inspiring.

Right before GW2 I’d suffered through Borderlands2. The most Chickenkitten mechanics I’d ever played. Like GW2 areas were labeled and everything would respawn behind you and death cost you in game cash, however they seemingly always tossed in a random ‘one shot kill’ that would pop out of nowhere along with the cruddy drops, the surprisingly decent writing and story behind it (and 1/2 way decent ‘artsy’ graphics) did not save the horrid game play mechanics. I did finish it.

I fondly recall ‘Lydia’ and I spending 6hrs one Friday evening clearing Aftland in Skyrim. Talk about a long crawl. The GW2 dungeons mostly require a team, over leveling and over equipping and multiple attempts unless some members of the team are experienced and ether ‘carry’ or explain how to combat the encounters. Until GW2 I’d never heard of such a thing. Getting a ‘guide book’ or searching a ‘wiki’ for instructions is taboo for this old school player.

While GW2 has some good points, its far from perfect. After some good aging it might be worth picking up again if its still around in a year or two. Until then there are way to many titles that I want to experience.

Anakin.9765:

You’re not judging ESO a little early on, are you? It seems people are expecting a game like Oblivion or Skyrim, but online with tons of people. This is not what they’re doing. This is not something they can do.

It is an MMO. To make such a series into an MMO, they will have to sacrifice many things. You’ll have the story, you’ll have some Elder Scrolls spice, but you won’t have Skyrim.

This isn’t speculation, this has been brought up many times in news releases. They just recently realized the game would be nice with an optional first person view. I want the game to do well, don’t get me wrong, but it is not going to be what you described.

Also, if you feel GW2 forced you down a linear leveling path, I would find it hard to believe you have ever played another MMO.

I don’t think many are expecting Skyrim Online. For me personally, I’ve checked out the videos, read up on the features and followed the lore since Morrowind. It’s the first real competitor to be released since GW2 launched and I’m eagerly waiting to try it out.

It’s being developed by a different studio that did the single player games though, so I’m not getting my hopes up too high. I’ve heard a few things that worry me, like not being able to venture into other fractions areas unless you’re part of that fraction. But hey, it’s definitely worth a look!

Leamas.5803:

I have a trivia question for you…what’s the longest running video game tile in history? I’ll give you a hint…it was an adventure game series that started in 1977 and had no graphics at all, it spawned 13 sequels/spin-offs, most recently in 2009, with a short-lived MMO. Good writing and lore is what propels a game that long…not graphics. I can’t speak for the MMO since I didn’t play it, but the other games I played in the series were excellent….and you actually had to think.

Wasn’t completely sure until you mentioned the MMO.

I wasn’t able to play the original Zork as I wasn’t around at that time, but I do know the history.

But, of course you had to think. I’ve not played a text-based game that was good or bad where I didn’t have to think – doesn’t mean it was good, though. I don’t have hands on experience, but for the number of attempts at creating sequels the game had to be worth reviving.

I think a degree of thinking is good for any game and I will agree with whoever stated it that GW2 doesn’t require much thought. Other games require planning and tactics due to their mechanics and it feels like Guild Wars 2 is missing some of that. Some of the bosses around the Cursed Shores require tactical play with smaller groups, so it would be cool to see that expanded.

Anakin.9765:

Anakin.9765:

You’re not judging ESO a little early on, are you? It seems people are expecting a game like Oblivion or Skyrim, but online with tons of people. This is not what they’re doing. This is not something they can do.

It is an MMO. To make such a series into an MMO, they will have to sacrifice many things. You’ll have the story, you’ll have some Elder Scrolls spice, but you won’t have Skyrim.

This isn’t speculation, this has been brought up many times in news releases. They just recently realized the game would be nice with an optional first person view. I want the game to do well, don’t get me wrong, but it is not going to be what you described.

Also, if you feel GW2 forced you down a linear leveling path, I would find it hard to believe you have ever played another MMO.

I don’t think many are expecting Skyrim Online. For me personally, I’ve checked out the videos, read up on the features and followed the lore since Morrowind. It’s the first real competitor to be released since GW2 launched and I’m eagerly waiting to try it out.

It’s being developed by a different studio that did the single player games though, so I’m not getting my hopes up too high. I’ve heard a few things that worry me, like not being able to venture into other fractions areas unless you’re part of that fraction. But hey, it’s definitely worth a look!

The person I quoted seems to be expecting Skyrim Online very much so. Do you disagree? I wasn’t saying everyone is expecting it, but he seems to be.

Anakin.9765:

The person I quoted seems to be expecting Skyrim Online very much so. Do you disagree? I wasn’t saying everyone is expecting it, but he seems to be.

Hard to say, he doesn’t really go into much detail. But I agree he’s in for some disappointment if that’s what he’s expecting.

plasmacutter.2709:

Dead on. ANet should listen to this, it’s the general consensus of everyone who does not have a “lucky account” after the 11/15 patch.

I bought the game over the Thanksgiving weekend. I think I was up to a whole whooping 70s50c by the time I was Lvl70. All my gear was purchased at Karma vendors as the ‘death tax’ + equipment repairs was eating me alive. While I did not experience the ‘golden’ drop rates pre-patch, I’ll have to admit that I’ve played many titles that are as bad or worse than GW2. (and there’s no good reason they had to be that way ether)

I think Anet realizes that if you don’t have a friendly group of people (friends, strangers or guild) to ‘carry’ you through the dungeons and if you don’t ‘farm’ your going to be in a mixture of white/blue/green gear by the time you reach Lvl80. Unless of course you get your debit card out. While its been proven that at least 1 AC path can be done ‘naked’, most of the game (and the players in it) tend to want the best gear.

The staying power of MMO’s is a very interesting topic discussed in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

Basically it draws a distinction between “theme park” games where players complete scripted content, and “sandbox” games where players create content for other players. It points out that the problem with “theme park” games is that players will always burn through content faster than the developers can create it, which leads to the introduction of grind so as to pace the game experience. Almost all PvE in GW2 are basically theme park content. If ANet sticks to this path, they have to keep rolling out free content while pacing it with grind. PvP and WvW contain sandbox elements. This is where I think ANet should focus if they want GW2 to have staying power.

Leamas.5803:

GaiusJuliusCasear.7253:

I know I am waiting for Elder Scrolls Online. GW2 wasn’t as fun as I was thinking it would be. I know I like to craft which for GW2 is a huge gold sink.

ESO will let you do what you want to do. GW2 has me feeling forced to do a single path to 80. If you start as a profession you often will be leveling in those lands. However, there are a fine amount of hearts and just a very simple personal story for you to do.

ES games I often hardly touch the main for a while. Heck, I run into more dungeons and find bandits then sell their stuff off. I have never been poor for long in any ES game.

Keep in mind…this is “ESO” and not “ES”. Don’t count your chickens quite yet. The dynamics of the on-line game are going to be vastly different than a traditional ES game.

Yeah, KotOR was a great game, SWtOR had good story (well, some of them), but was a mediocre WoW knock-off as an MMO.

Anakin.9765:

You’re not judging ESO a little early on, are you? It seems people are expecting a game like Oblivion or Skyrim, but online with tons of people. This is not what they’re doing. This is not something they can do.

It is an MMO. To make such a series into an MMO, they will have to sacrifice many things. You’ll have the story, you’ll have some Elder Scrolls spice, but you won’t have Skyrim.

This isn’t speculation, this has been brought up many times in news releases. They just recently realized the game would be nice with an optional first person view. I want the game to do well, don’t get me wrong, but it is not going to be what you described.

Also, if you feel GW2 forced you down a linear leveling path, I would find it hard to believe you have ever played another MMO.

Agreed.

The 1st thing I missed was the ‘rewind button’ (load save game) nope – no saving on a MMO, can’t replay that stupid thing you just did. Kill an NPC and they are dead FOREVER? Nope – can’t be done in a MMO. Actually NO changes to the gaming world can be done. Anything that you damage will respawn, story arc’s will replay like a broken record. A war destroyed a town? It will be back as new in a few hours (all respawned) The real heart breaker will be in the combat animations. (has anyone ever emulated good single player game combat animations well in a mmo? Ever?)
Forget having custom patches and a console to change game settings. If it does not have native Gamepad support I’ll steer clear of it.

I wondered what they’d do after Skyrim and its disturbing to think that ESO could be the end of a beloved series.

Kill an NPC and they are dead FOREVER? Nope – can’t be done in a MMO.

— looks at Traherne —

Yes it can, Do It Now ANet

You would think a lot of the stuff in this topic would be considered completely off-topic, but I think it all will kind of indirectly relate to the future of GW2.

plasmacutter.2709:

Kill an NPC and they are dead FOREVER? Nope – can’t be done in a MMO.

— looks at Traherne —

Yes it can, Do It Now ANet

Yes, even this comment.

Well I think the main problem with GW 2 is simply no reward for anything. Sure the game is fun and you have A LOT to do, just simply dont expect the game reward you for anything.

Some things are just implemented poorly and after release I was pretty sure they would fix the problem realy soon and they tried but the way is just wrong or not consistent enough.

First off, I still dont understand why Karma isnt rebalanced. It shouldnt be area based (low level area 200 Karma and high level 300 karma) but level based so when im level 80 everywhere in the world i do events I should get the same reward.

And why is the Karma reward so low in the open world anyways? Daylies and dungeons hand out way more Karma even through Karma should be used as an open world currency.

Where I get to the next point. The game needs more things to buy from Karma, just one set of unique Armor isnt enough for a currency.

I wish they would overhaul the Karma currency to become the ONLY open world currency and they should add more rewards you can trade for Karma.

Loot in this game is just horribly designed, I realy wonder how that system made it out of alpha. Troves should have less loot but better maybe rare crafting or forge stuff like having killed fire elemental gives you 2-5 Molten lodestones, killing jormag gives you the corrupted lodestones etc.

Im playing since realese and i got ONE just ONE corrupted Lodestone for like having killed 50+ jormags…how rare can something be where you need 50-100 to make something with it.

So my Idea: remove crap items from treasure troves and add other rare materials in it with a chance to get exotic/rare weapons and armor (same chance as it is now). Another thing that could be added are special rune sets that can only drop from some troves wich are also soulbound but Anet has to make sure to place them all over the World and not just orr.

Creating a huge world without any good reason to travel makes people stay where they can get what they want as easy as possible, so you need to spread desireable loot all over the world.

Its highly frustrating to open a chest and get blue crap.

I started with 7 friends the game 3 are left all others quit because of no reward this clearly shows a lot of people want something to strive for and Legendarys are to much of a grind for most people i know.

Hawkian.6580:

Hellkaiser.6025:

The answer is NOT that cut and dry.

It wasn’t meant to be glib… I absolutely believe the answer is exactly that cut and dry. :-/

a. As far as how the game will fare long-term, only time will tell, as the OP concludes.
b. It might be a complex, layered dilemma for some, but I play the game because it’s fun for me to play, and if it stops being fun I’ll stop playing. I haven’t heard anything close to a legitimate explanation as to how there could possibly be more to it than that. If we were being charged a subscription fee I can see how there would be a different mindset on both sides of the equation.

a:you want us to avoid the slippery slope fallacy then? ok that’s fine. Let’s focus on the present.
b: and YOU are not the be all and end all of the discussion, your subjective opinion is yours and no one can take that from you, but you don’t speak for all of us, this is a response akin to what I’ve received on this forum so I take great joy in returning it.
This is an industry of clones… one game does well and breaks through and suddenly their ideas are the goto solution to lazy development, that INCLUDES the bad aspects usually, I just want to ensure that anyone seeking to do what GW2 attempted to do, can come here and look at a forum full of players that pointed them in the right direction and gave darned good reasons, as opposed to the usual thread from a player who’s playing a week or two exclaiming that it’s the “bestest game evar” in a thread they start for little to no reason. Usually in one lacking actual depth as well.

I just recall many an interview where they claimed they wanted their game to feel rewarding, they didn’t want to be like other games. Well, guess what they aren’t like other games. I actually get rewarded when I play STO or WoW or TL II I actually get loot that I can use, I’m not cutoff from that loot or currency by some manipulated mechanic in the game that’s become so bothersome that it’s killing the title entirely.Blizz tried this mess years ago, they tried to limit the amount/kind of loot and they lost a ton of people all at once when they did (it was early on) they corrected it in time to keep the population they had and then released their next expansion. Other titles stubbornly held onto DR and claimed it was to battle bots and those titles were closed down because like here there is no reward for your time. Those devs learned the hard way that DR never keeps bots at bay and only serves the harm the players. Blizz also learned the value of currency for items long ago, GW2 has just started it but they need to drop the achievements we’ve already done so we can get the things we need. We also need to get rid of the extra RNG items the last thing we need is extra RNG we need direct access to buying powerful bloods, onyx lodestones, etc so that people can gear themselves properly without the need to go to the gem store currency exchange for absolutely everything just to be able to afford the broken economy prices in the TP.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Raine.1394:

1) If you don’t do dungeons, the case this month, it takes 30 days to get an amulet. For me to obtain one it would be 30 days, that’s why I used that number.

Seriously? Do 5 dungeon runs. Don’t complain about this if you are so unwilling to play some aspect of the game even a minute amount.

I’m not against people “whining” and “complaining” when what they are actually doing can be better described as criticizing. If you aren’t willing to do something you don’t like for just 2 hours over the entire month and that is the only thing keeping you from getting this amulet with everyone else, then boo hoo. The 2 hours you spend on dungeons now equates to you having the amulet for aprox. 12 days more.

You do understand don’t you how irrelevant your argument is? Because for 7 years we were told this game was never supposed to be about dungeons, that’s the KEY reason why I bought it. It was absolutely supposed to be about open world DE meta’s and nothing else because “it’s so much less costly to develope DE’s” “DE’s can be churned out so much faster then dungeon content” “DE’s are superior to dungeons because you aren’t waiting on a group to form, you can just jump into the content immediately upon logging in”

Remember all that? Because I sure do. Have they delivered? Nope. Still waiting on those new DE Meta’s that are supposed to be as fun if not more fun then the dragon events. Instead I get this requirement to do the very thing I was told I would never have to do in this game, dungeons.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Hawkian.6580:

Hellkaiser.6025:

The answer is NOT that cut and dry.

It wasn’t meant to be glib… I absolutely believe the answer is exactly that cut and dry. :-/

a. As far as how the game will fare long-term, only time will tell, as the OP concludes.
b. It might be a complex, layered dilemma for some, but I play the game because it’s fun for me to play, and if it stops being fun I’ll stop playing. I haven’t heard anything close to a legitimate explanation as to how there could possibly be more to it than that. If we were being charged a subscription fee I can see how there would be a different mindset on both sides of the equation.

a:you want us to avoid the slippery slope fallacy then? ok that’s fine. Let’s focus on the present.
b: and YOU are not the be all and end all of the discussion, your subjective opinion is yours and no one can take that from you, but you don’t speak for all of us, this is a response akin to what I’ve received on this forum so I take great joy in returning it.
This is an industry of clones… one game does well and breaks through and suddenly their ideas are the goto solution to lazy development, that INCLUDES the bad aspects usually, I just want to ensure that anyone seeking to do what GW2 attempted to do, can come here and look at a forum full of players that pointed them in the right direction and gave darned good reasons, as opposed to the usual thread from a player who’s playing a week or two exclaiming that it’s the “bestest game evar” in a thread they start for little to no reason. Usually in one lacking actual depth as well.

While I was a little concerned with my first response to this being Hawkian’s dismissive response, the thread has become what I hoped it would. With ~600 hours in and map completion, I’ve done most of the content at least once, though I’m slowly still working through the personal story, I also have the benefit of one who has been around long enough to have experienced the pre-November “golden days”. I’m no GW2 noob, but am a somewhat of an MMO noob, and was genuinely interested in other player’s opinions on these topics since I don’t have the MMO history to fairly evaluate some of this stuff. Even Hawkian’s opinion is valid and his to have, though not terribly constructive to a discussion.

The thread was never meant to be trolling or bashing and I have genuine concerns for GW2 when ArenaNet closes and merges discussion threads without ever replying or providing any sort of resolution. This frustrates players and makes them angry. I know many players who have left over various issues (Loot, broken/unbalanced professions, lack of communication, etc.), or are still playing but simply biding their time until ESO comes out.

Perhaps it might be considered in bad taste to mention or discuss other games here, but ESO is probably the first “real” competition GW2 will face and in that light I think a valid discussion topic here.

I also wonder about chest loot in GW2. Just for comparison, item rarities in GW1 and GW2:

• GW1: White * GW2: White
• GW1: Blue * GW2: Blue/Fine
• GW1: Purple * GW2: Green/MW
• GW1: Gold * GW2: Gold/Rare
• GW1: Green * GW2: Orange/Exotic

Now, the only chests that I can recall in GW1 were in dungeons, FoW and UW. Those chests always dropped 2 items (gold or green), as well as rare crafting materials. The chance for a Green (given the frequency with which I saw them) was not a miniscule chance. Some of the gold items were also highly sought after (more valuable than the greens, really), as they were rare and highly desirable skins (e.g., Voltaic Spear). Even the common yellows might have a desirable mod that could be salvaged. Now, in GW1, doing a dungeon might take a bit longer (though there were speed runs there, too).

So, how does the same company come to the conclusion that chests (dungeon and open world) in GW2 should drop blues and greens, whose value above vendor price or salvage is mostly non-existent?

Loot is crap, stat system is crap, grind is crap, skills are crap and incredibly repetitive, there are no rotations or procs (If we’re going to be using the same 2 skills 24/7, you may as well make it interesting), combo system is crap, pve is uninteresting and defiled with 1hit kill instagibs, dodge is designed horribly, no healers, no end-game, forced to be DPS, still no GW in the game.

You tell me if it’ll last.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I also wonder about chest loot in GW2. Just for comparison, item rarities in GW1 and GW2:

• GW1: White * GW2: White
• GW1: Blue * GW2: Blue/Fine
• GW1: Purple * GW2: Green/MW
• GW1: Gold * GW2: Gold/Rare
• GW1: Green * GW2: Orange/Exotic

Now, the only chests that I can recall in GW2 were in dungeons, FoW and UW. Those chests always dropped 2 items (gold or green), as well as rare crafting materials. The chance for a Green (given the frequency with which I saw them) was not a miniscule chance. Some of the gold items were also highly sought after (more valuable than the greens, really), as they were rare and highly desirable skins (e.g., Voltaic Spear). Even the common yellows might have a desirable mod that could be salvaged. Now, in GW1, doing a dungeon might take a bit longer (though there were speed runs there, too).

So, how does the same company come to the conclusion that chests (dungeon and open world) in GW2 should drop blues and greens, whose value above vendor price or salvage is mostly non-existent?

simple answer:
Gw2 anet need to change the reward guys vision, the rewards in this game a very poorly executed on numerous levels.
A) no feeling of control (very few drops you can actually hunt for by targeting specific enemies or events
B)generally unrewarding, as you said the vast majority of rewards you get a fairly worthless, basically vendor
C) the rewards arent balanced with difficulty or rarity of circumstances, for example a jumping puzzle that takes 15min to an hour to complete, and can only be completed once per day generally gives way less reward than an activity that lasts 5 minutes and you can repeat once every 15 minutes
D) requirements for creating items of value tend to be fairly crazy, as is, an ascended neck piece takes one month to obtain, ascnded back piece requires 250 of the rarest crafting mats
E) rewards arent balanced to reward the type of gameplay they wanted to create, they spent lots of time on exploring and putting DEs and events everywhere, but the rewards are skewed toward being a merchant, and farming repetive tasks in one place repeatedly.

All in all, the reward systems are probably the biggest flaw of GW2 and one of the ones we ve seen the least progress on. I hope they can iterate to some better systems soon

I can see there’s a ‘disconnect’ in that ‘reward’ and ‘rewarding’ means different things to different players.

Lets define rewarding.

I play lots of games. A game that offers challenges to both my physical and mental skills and multiple ways of over coming them and is fun to play to me is a rewarding experience. I filled up some otherwise idle time and hopefully enjoyed a nice distraction from real life issues/problems/stress.

I don’t kill ‘the big thing’ (I hate the term ‘boss’) because I might get something out of it, I kill it because its THERE and presents itself as a challenge. (it may just be there blocking further progress in the game itself)

The reward is knowing I can and did defeat it. The reward is the playtime, distraction and fun involved in fighting it.

It took me nearly 2 months to get on toon to Lvl80. The whole idea behind the ‘power leveling guides’ is beyond me.

Would I ‘inhale’ a 150$ dinner at a fancy resturant? Spend 200$ on a concert ticket to sit in the bar and come out to see only the final act? Just like everyone else, I dropped ~60$ on this title and hoped to get 2w-1mo of play time enjoyment out of it.

Considering most of the content of the game can be played without Rare or Exotic gear (I did not buy any until I reached Lvl70) I often wondered what exactly Gold was really needed for and while Rare and Exotic gear makes the game easier, I think all it represents is a ‘micro transaction’ or chance to ‘grind’ at late or end game.

MaRko.3165:

I shortend it so the post in so huge.

……….I don’t kill ‘the big thing’ (I hate the term ‘boss’) because I might get something out of it, I kill it because its THERE and presents itself as a challenge. (it may just be there blocking further progress in the game itself)

The reward is knowing I can and did defeat it. The reward is the playtime, distraction and fun involved in fighting it……….

Well i can see your point for “rewarding” gameplay but lets be honest how often can you take down a dragon and still think of it as an archivement?

The thing is doing things more then once, twice or maybe third time removes that kind of rewarding gameplay. You dont have higher difficultys to aim at (for the same event or boss), so many players want another kind of motivation wich can be gear or other rare loot (pets or mounts – if GW2 had them as ex.) and here lets be honest GW2 sucks…my 2 cents about this is in my post before.

Sure if you think about the time spend for 60$ then you can think of it as a rewarding game because it offers a lot and that would be fair to say for a singleplayer game like skyrim (i have more then 300 hours gameplay time there, more then in GW2 i think) but a MMORPG is something different.

In MMORPGs you need to put stuff in that rewards players even after playing through content more then once. Anet hasnt adressed that issue yet wich is a big issue for a lot of players.

Gothdir.8953:

Well i can see your point for “rewarding” gameplay but lets be honest how often can you take down a dragon and still think of it as an archivement?

The thing is doing things more then once, twice or maybe third time removes that kind of rewarding gameplay. You dont have higher difficultys to aim at (for the same event or boss), so many players want another kind of motivation wich can be gear or other rare loot (pets or mounts – if GW2 had them as ex.) and here lets be honest GW2 sucks…my 2 cents about this is in my post before.

In MMORPGs you need to put stuff in that rewards players even after playing through content more then once. Anet hasnt adressed that issue yet wich is a big issue for a lot of players.

I’ll agree to disagree then. I don’t see that the problems that GW2 faces are really ‘MMO’ specific as if it were released as a single player game and the TP was simply Anet rather than possibly other players the same problems would exist.

‘content reuse’ for most games is generally done with ‘alts’ or different builds. GW2 does have their ‘dynamic events’ going for it which can/could be used to offer an illusion of a constantly changing world.

I think the real problem lies in the combat mechanics and the lack of any power given to many professions special features and the general lack of mid-high level monsters requiring those features be used.

IMHO: brute force or ‘high DPS’ attacks ought to be the least desirable solution or the last one picked rather than the 1st and only valid method.

‘dodge, spray and pray’ gets old really fast.

GW2 will fail because ANet is falling into the same trap as other developers — they are adding trivial gimmicks and distractions, rather than focusing on making the core game fun / more fun.

definitly yes

the game become a panda… PVE is too easy, no teamplay = fail
The next door is ftp asian model.

give the gw1 system back… because it brings real players, the current people in gw2 is just… temporary fast-fooder

Hellkaiser.6025:

Hawkian.6580:

Hellkaiser.6025:

The answer is NOT that cut and dry.

It wasn’t meant to be glib… I absolutely believe the answer is exactly that cut and dry. :-/

a. As far as how the game will fare long-term, only time will tell, as the OP concludes.
b. It might be a complex, layered dilemma for some, but I play the game because it’s fun for me to play, and if it stops being fun I’ll stop playing. I haven’t heard anything close to a legitimate explanation as to how there could possibly be more to it than that. If we were being charged a subscription fee I can see how there would be a different mindset on both sides of the equation.

a:you want us to avoid the slippery slope fallacy then? ok that’s fine. Let’s focus on the present.
b: and YOU are not the be all and end all of the discussion, your subjective opinion is yours and no one can take that from you, but you don’t speak for all of us, this is a response akin to what I’ve received on this forum so I take great joy in returning it.
This is an industry of clones… one game does well and breaks through and suddenly their ideas are the goto solution to lazy development, that INCLUDES the bad aspects usually, I just want to ensure that anyone seeking to do what GW2 attempted to do, can come here and look at a forum full of players that pointed them in the right direction and gave darned good reasons, as opposed to the usual thread from a player who’s playing a week or two exclaiming that it’s the “bestest game evar” in a thread they start for little to no reason. Usually in one lacking actual depth as well.

You have a forum full of people who can point the in the right direction. WHICH right direction. The right direction for someone with your play style or the right direction for someone with a different play style. This is the biggest fallacy of the forums. That the fans know what’s best for the game. The fans can barely agree on ANYTHING.

And very often, the loudest voices on the forum (myself included) don’t represent the majority of players.

Leamas.5803:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Hawkian.6580:

Hellkaiser.6025:

The answer is NOT that cut and dry.

It wasn’t meant to be glib… I absolutely believe the answer is exactly that cut and dry. :-/

a. As far as how the game will fare long-term, only time will tell, as the OP concludes.
b. It might be a complex, layered dilemma for some, but I play the game because it’s fun for me to play, and if it stops being fun I’ll stop playing. I haven’t heard anything close to a legitimate explanation as to how there could possibly be more to it than that. If we were being charged a subscription fee I can see how there would be a different mindset on both sides of the equation.

a:you want us to avoid the slippery slope fallacy then? ok that’s fine. Let’s focus on the present.
b: and YOU are not the be all and end all of the discussion, your subjective opinion is yours and no one can take that from you, but you don’t speak for all of us, this is a response akin to what I’ve received on this forum so I take great joy in returning it.
This is an industry of clones… one game does well and breaks through and suddenly their ideas are the goto solution to lazy development, that INCLUDES the bad aspects usually, I just want to ensure that anyone seeking to do what GW2 attempted to do, can come here and look at a forum full of players that pointed them in the right direction and gave darned good reasons, as opposed to the usual thread from a player who’s playing a week or two exclaiming that it’s the “bestest game evar” in a thread they start for little to no reason. Usually in one lacking actual depth as well.

While I was a little concerned with my first response to this being Hawkian’s dismissive response, the thread has become what I hoped it would. With ~600 hours in and map completion, I’ve done most of the content at least once, though I’m slowly still working through the personal story, I also have the benefit of one who has been around long enough to have experienced the pre-November “golden days”. I’m no GW2 noob, but am a somewhat of an MMO noob, and was genuinely interested in other player’s opinions on these topics since I don’t have the MMO history to fairly evaluate some of this stuff. Even Hawkian’s opinion is valid and his to have, though not terribly constructive to a discussion.

The thread was never meant to be trolling or bashing and I have genuine concerns for GW2 when ArenaNet closes and merges discussion threads without ever replying or providing any sort of resolution. This frustrates players and makes them angry. I know many players who have left over various issues (Loot, broken/unbalanced professions, lack of communication, etc.), or are still playing but simply biding their time until ESO comes out.

Perhaps it might be considered in bad taste to mention or discuss other games here, but ESO is probably the first “real” competition GW2 will face and in that light I think a valid discussion topic here.

ESO would be a valid topic of discussion six months after it released. Let’s not disguise that fact that some people have called pre-November the golden days, something I completely disagree with by the way. I don’t think the game has changed as much as some would say, and some of the changes are for the better anyway.

But ESO is not released and until you’ve played a game, you can’t compare it to a game that’s already out, any more than the legions of people who loved Guild Wars 2 before it game out could compare it to games they were playing. They did, and they were wrong to do it…because everything you know about a game until you’ve played it for a couple of months straight is pretty much meaningless. In other words, everything is good on paper.

Comparing games that are out to games that are out is far more fair than comparing games that aren’t out and really haven’t stood the test of a million players. Let me ask you a simple question. What if ESO comes out and the lag is so bad no one can play it?

Anet has already said they’ll be overhauling the whole reward system. I’m sure they won’t provide detail on it until it’s almost done, but in some ways at least it’s gone in the right direction. That is to say, it’s far easy to get rares today than it was six months ago. By the same token, a lot of farmers think they’re being hard done by.

I don’t know the answer to the question, but I do know it’s a lot more complex than most people make it out to be.

anyway, ANet take risk to initiate innovation and it is very fine, i agree.

the goal is to seduce unskilled panda player and hardcore player who looks for hardmode and reward.

i don t have any pb with the both population, they can live together.

The only common things to fix are the teamplay (too much dps profile), mf, camera and ui features (build management). Anything else is not so important and can be revamp later in the future.

At least the fractal system is the way to go, even for classic existing dungeon : let the player choose the difficulty and loot rate will be in consequence.

ANet, be carefull with the trinity-less… we need it a little bit

Vayne.8563:

ESO would be a valid topic of discussion six months after it released. Let’s not disguise that fact that some people have called pre-November the golden days, something I completely disagree with by the way. I don’t think the game has changed as much as some would say, and some of the changes are for the better anyway.

As someone who’s been here since pre-purchase in April, I can validate your observation that not much changed with the November patch. The game has done nothing but improve over time, but good luck convincing a forum of that.

About population some facts i know:
1. My first guild have 200+ members in last year October, 100 online anytime. Now, 0 online all grey anytime(No many leaving still that many grey acct there).
2. My main guild have 400+ members and 200+ online anytime in February this year. Now, around 30 online and most of them are new player ( join this game around April )
3. In April I can have 70+ members join guild quest (my guild unlocked all of them), but in this month only 30+.
4. Last weekend evening I counted player in LA(JQ) head by head, around 100 to 150.(Because I missed lots ppl hide in corner, but wont be too many 50 is reasonable)
5.In my experience, WvW big zerg is round 30 to 70. Lets say each map have 3 wave zerg. 1 wave count as map roaming .( In fact wvw cap for each map is 166, 664 for all 4 maps)

Since Anet don’t willing tell the true population for this game, and we don’t have such command like :/online .online. The only way to know the population is guess based on every one’s personal filling.

I don’t want to argue with anyone about this game is dying or not. I can only tell the things I saw. Since all my friends gone, i didn’t play gw2 for more than 1 month. (except start guild quest for guild in weekend, logon start quest wait ppl done logoff)