Guild Wars 2

You know, when the game first came out I thought “Yes”! Nice Idea! Put an end to the cons of using the holy trinity.

However I think this was a mistake. This is a thread pointing out some of the long term effects this has had and also an answer as to why the game becomes boring so quickly. I believe in the long run, getting rid of it has damaged guild wars 2.

Role = Purpose – No holy trinity means that nothing is special

A massive part of any game is to have a purpose and a role to fulfil and whilst it’s entirely possible to do that no matter what class you are, that’s exactly what makes it lose it’s charm in the long run. Since everyone can fulfil a role, nothing is special. It also, in my humble opinion, makes the game very messy and decreases longevity of the game.

Too Item dependant – PvE = Zergway – PvP = Solway

Since everything can do everything, all the game has really come down to is this:

“How well can each class zerg?”…
“Ok warrior,”
Yells “OK GUYZ, ALL RE-ROLL A WAR”

There are many other things I’d like to go into detail with however Tera has finished patching and I wanna play. So I’ll summerize with this:

The above mentality has been almost encouraged by the way the game has been designed and has really ruined the overall experience for many players, (Please let me know if you agree or disagree with this). After you have zerged your way through the game, you’re left at the end not really seeing the point of it all and end up quitting.

I think that if they wanted to remove the downside to the holy trinity of not being able to find people of specific roles, then all you needed to do was design a game that allowed you to switch your professions so that you only needed to play 1 character, but were able to freely switch between different roles on that character. As you progress through the game you earn rewards and skills for that role that you’re currently playing. THAT’S how it should have been done, not this absolute mess.

Anyway, rant over. Your turn. Does anyone else miss the holy trinity?

Even if you don’t, would you think that having a holy trinity AND a system that avoids “GLF HEALER” all the time would actually add some more depth to the game?

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just spouting nonsense again

No thanks

even after a year you guys don´t give it up? Nothing to see here, give it up :P

I don’t miss being in a queue for an hour as a DPS role.

Role = Purpose is not comply true role = being pigged hold into doing the same thing every fight over and over.
A Purpose is a reason why your doing an event or playing with other players.

The next time you want to make a dungeon group, stare at your screen for 30 minutes beforehand to remind yourself what it was like to wait for a healer class for your group.

Your post is 6 months too late.

As the responses to the OP indicate, healer and tank players have already left the game. Only the DPS are left.

And what do you get when you only have DPS left? Zerg city.

(Except for WvW, where if you have a 15+ person guild group you can have a Trinity of Tank Hammer Warriors, Healing Water/Blast Guards and Eles, and Necro DPS’ers — only available to the elite though).

Not entirely true. I played all roles in WoW. For a while I was a kitten good tank, then I got tired of being nagged by guildies every time I logged in. So I played on a DPS toon for a while after that. Then I healed, and got pretty good at that too.

Do I miss the trinity? Yes and no.

Yes because I miss the fact that someone else can keep crap off of me, and I miss feeling that sense of accomplishment after we get through a tough boss and no one died on me once. No because it takes off the pressure from everyone.

Think about it. The tank gets crap if one really high DPS pulls aggro. So it must be the tank’s fault. Said DPS ends up dying, so it must be the healer’s fault. The boss goes down too slowly and causes the healer to run out of mana before the end, so obviously the DPS sucks. So with no trinity, there is less pressure on any one individual.

So basically, we have to keep ourselves alive and work as a team to get through dungeons. What’s wrong with that?

I don’t miss miss the trinity itself, I do miss playing pure heals/support. I realize most classes can gear/spec for support but it not the same. Sure its nice to be able to fight and not hit like a wet noodle, but, that’s what alts are for.

Now if they added the Monk from GW1 then I would be a happy camper, it won’t happen, but I can still hope and dream.

Nothing’s wrong with the trinity, “fighter+thief+mage” is a tried and true concept in RPGs, even in many other genres (although they’re not named the same, of course!)

Nothing’s wrong with what GW2’s doing either. The attempt to make ‘everyone viable’ is a good goal.

It’s the common “tank+dps+heals” approach to the trinity that can put me to sleep. GW2’s approach to ‘lack of roles’ results in the loss of a lot of depth.

Either approach is fine. There just still needs to be depth.

Also, I think a few should be reminded of what the OP says near the end:

“Even if you don’t, would you think that having a holy trinity AND a system that avoids “GLF HEALER” all the time would actually add some more depth to the game?”

I don’t miss what I experienced as a DD in other games. That being awkward discrimination based on (among other things) level and gear, not to mention generally feeling useless since for every tank there would be a dozen DDs.

Besides that, I don’t enjoy the pressure that you get as a tank or a healer. If you screw up and your team wipes, which can be down to the timing of a single cleanse or something ridiculous like that, you get insults thrown in your face that you really don’t deserve.

We talked this to death already.
To death means that, the final deal was already given on this.
And the final deal is that GW2 does not need to be like a traditional MMO, since it isn’t.
Everyone needs to both tank, DPS and heal – instead of being locked into just one of those roles.
The only way to change this is change video game. No other way is possible.

Think about it. The tank gets crap if one really high DPS pulls aggro. So it must be the tank’s fault. Said DPS ends up dying, so it must be the healer’s fault. The boss goes down too slowly and causes the healer to run out of mana before the end, so obviously the DPS sucks. So with no trinity, there is less pressure on any one individual.

Let’s see what it’s like in guild wars. You’re meleeing Lupi and mesmer doesn’t put up feedback. GG.

You run in after the bomb explodes in CoF p1 and mesmer doesn’t focus pull the two mobs so you can’t cleave. One of them starts running around, you kill one and then the group wipes because they couldn’t kill the second mob and turret fast enough.

You jump down the platforms to the evolved destroyer in COE, a dragon’s tooth AOE appears and guardian doesn’t drop aegis in time. Massive damage, probably pushed in to the lava, GG.

Pre-fight, elementalist doesn’t put up fire field. No might.

Elementalist puts up fire field but no blasts, no might. Stroll in to the battle, do pitiful DPS, get wiped.

There is enough pressure on each player, because without player X doing Y, the team can’t perform Z. This can result in slower fights, players downing and even wipes. At the same time, players are self sufficient enough that you can mitigate a fair deal of the errors performed by players in your team, by having the situational awareness to realise you are lacking aegis at the destroyer and then dodging. Against the first two mobs in CoF p1, you can whirlwind through the mobs to evade the AOE spams and to hit both of them hopefully.

I don’t ever want a trinity in this game, ANet have actually made a great system which promotes proactive rather than reactive play (oh look, low HP bars, better heal, or oh look, I lost aggro, better use some sort of taunt skill so boss goes for me instead) which makes the combat more skill intensive since you can’t just play an afk healer, afk tank or afk dps.

I played WoW from mid-vanilla until March of this year. I was a fantastic healer and a moderately good off-tank. I liked those roles. I found the mechanics to be interesting and varied. I could heal effectively with 3/4 classes (3/5 after monks were introduced; never did get one to max level- same with paladin).

One of the deciding factors when I switched to GW2 was the lack of the holy trinity. I like the option to support without the pressure to be the healer in every group. I enjoyed it, yes. But if I wanted it back, I’d still be playing WoW, or any other MMO in existence.

I am strongly opposed to introducing a trinity system in GW2.

Happyfool.8951:

I don’t miss being in a queue for an hour as a DPS role.

I played primarily DPS in WoW for years and never spent an hour in a queue. 10 minutes maybe, sometimes a bit longer. Bottom line, I never spent more time getting a group together in trinity games than I do in GW2. Never.

Red Falcon.8257:

snip And the final deal is that GW2 does not need to be like a traditional MMO, since it isn’t.

It certainly doesn’t, but I’d be totally fine if it was more alike to its predecessor, which certainly wasn’t traditional. I’d personally say it was less traditional than GW2, even.

Raine.1394:

I played primarily DPS in WoW for years and never spent an hour in a queue. 10 minutes maybe, sometimes a bit longer. Bottom line, I never spent more time getting a group together in trinity games than I do in GW2. Never.

I primarily played a tank and was never in queue for more than 10 seconds, zing! What blew my mind was most of the DPS I ran with ended up being Deathknights or Warriors. I cried whenever one of them said “wow finally”.

The only thing I miss from the trinity, is the pure heal aspect of it. Coming through a tight spot with all of my teammates intact because I was able to keep their butts alive. Its a wonderful feeling, especially if you get the “holy kitten, no one died” at the end. chuckle

Still, I do not miss standing around waiting for a tank, or a healer. Getting yelled at when someone dies because they were being stupid. The “hey can you play this instead” when I’m obviously not on that character, if I wanted to play that role, then I’d be on that character! Just to name a few.

Conclusion: there a heck of a lot more things that I don’t miss, and would prefer not to have to deal with vs that I do miss. As such, I’m content without having the trinity in GW2. This is not to say that I don’t desire to see more emphasis on needing support roles vs dps roles in the general play. I’ve still got my fingers crossed that they’ll be able to revamp, and spice up the game play so that simply rolling all DPS won’t be sufficient to make it through some of the harder stuff.

I don’t miss the trinity.

But a soft one like GW1 – where classes were quite free, no tanks present but healers yes – could solve quite few issues.

Trinity as in only the tank plays the game and makes an effort? While dps’s do their rotation for 5 minutes and healers look at bars? No thank you i’m fine with all dps’es having to look out for themselves while looking after others too.

Holy Trinity sux. I hate it and hope it dies forever.

I even hate the medium/heavy/light thing. Lemmy wear/do anything I want. >;(

ahuba.6430:

Trinity as in only the tank plays the game and makes an effort? While dps’s do their rotation for 5 minutes and healers look at bars? No thank you i’m fine with all dps’es having to look out for themselves while looking after others too.

I don’t miss ^^ these guys, you know, the tanks that figured they lived through everything without assistance while their healers fingers bleed as they try to keep said clueless tank up.

AndrewSX.3794:

I don’t miss the trinity.

But a soft one like GW1 – where classes were quite free, no tanks present but healers yes – could solve quite few issues.

There are kind of soft rolls for the classes to play its just all classes can be played in such a way its comes down to more what gear your going to use. The next update is going to make burst water more effect for high healing builds vs less effect for non healing builds. So say an ele can build high heal and burst there own water fields or say a gurdian go high heal and use hammer to burst others water fields.

As someone who enjoyed being a healer/tank. Yeah I do kinda miss it. And I don’t understand the hate OP is getting.

But this game does have its own form of holy trinity. It’s just more subtle than others. But I do feel like all the classes are very similar in what they can do, if not their gameplay. It’s just that some classes can do some stuff a lot better than others.

AndrewSX.3794:

I don’t miss the trinity.

But a soft one like GW1 – where classes were quite free, no tanks present but healers yes – could solve quite few issues.

I’ve never played any other mmorpg besides gw1, and I’ve heard quite a few times that it was described as having a “soft” trinity. I don’t even know what all this “taunt” stuff is but gw1 was a really good game, with unique roles. This game just seems like a dps race. All the people that wanted tight team combat (like myself) have already left the game.

I’d never play a game with the trinity again. I think the trinity is actually the worst thing ever to happen to MMOs.

milo.6942:

AndrewSX.3794:

I don’t miss the trinity.

But a soft one like GW1 – where classes were quite free, no tanks present but healers yes – could solve quite few issues.

I’ve never played any other mmorpg besides gw1, and I’ve heard quite a few times that it was described as having a “soft” trinity. I don’t even know what all this “taunt” stuff is but gw1 was a really good game, with unique roles. This game just seems like a dps race. All the people that wanted tight team combat (like myself) have already left the game.

I don’t know, my guild has tight team combat. Not sure why you don’t.

Taunt is a way to get something to aggro on you. That’s what tanks did in most trinity games. The tank would get and hold aggro, and the bosses would attack the tank. The monk would heal the tank, and if everything went as planned, everyone else just attacked the boss. It was very different from what Guild Wars 1 had.

In some ways I’d like to be able to build for it but I’m glad that there is no need for it. I do think the lack of it makes creating encounters difficult since they have to ensure that any group can complete anything.

Nope, don’t miss it one bit.

Combat feels much more fun and immersive without it. I like the hybrid nature of GW2’s professions and I love that parties form instantly.

I don’t miss it at all either. Like in GW1 parties almost always waited 5-10 min just trying to find a healer.

Fomby.4295:

As someone who enjoyed being a healer/tank. Yeah I do kinda miss it. And I don’t understand the hate OP is getting.

But this game does have its own form of holy trinity. It’s just more subtle than others. But I do feel like all the classes are very similar in what they can do, if not their gameplay. It’s just that some classes can do some stuff a lot better than others.

What trinity?

don’t miss it at all.

Huh? Trinity? But we only have warriors. I wish they added Mesmers from GW1 to this game.

I miss having the option of playing a dedicated healer.

Cilph.6758:

Huh? Trinity? But we only have warriors. I wish they added Mesmers from GW1 to this game.

pugger detected

its just you.

i dun miss the trinity.

I don’t miss the trinity but i miss some kind of mechanic to battles. Right now there’s none, all you do is spam like a braindead. They should evolve their combo system. If not, this is just an auto attack spam bot game for the years to come.

ahuba.6430:

Cilph.6758:

Huh? Trinity? But we only have warriors. I wish they added Mesmers from GW1 to this game.

pugger detected

Nah, I hate PUGs with a passion. I mainly play with the guild. Just fed up with the special treatment warriors seem to be getting.

The “GLFhealz then gtg” is only one problem, the other is the “dude, we need a healer, get off your bloody warrior and onto your priest NOAW or GKICKz!!”, i.e. being forced to play a class/role you don’t want to play.

I do agree that the different things classes bring to the table in GW2 aren’t all utilized equally well. One improvement would be to make boon removal more of a “thing” in PvE, which would make several class abilities more important.

Cilph.6758:

ahuba.6430:

Cilph.6758:

Huh? Trinity? But we only have warriors. I wish they added Mesmers from GW1 to this game.

pugger detected

Nah, I hate PUGs with a passion. I mainly play with the guild. Just fed up with the special treatment warriors seem to be getting.

Thieves and elementalists are higher DPS.

I don’t miss the trinity but i miss some kind of mechanic to battles. Right now there’s none, all you do is spam like a braindead. They should evolve their combo system. If not, this is just an auto attack spam bot game for the years to come.

Firstly, there are mechanics. Secondly, if you spam like a braindead you’ll either die or compromise your own DPS. Just because speed clear groups on youtube make content look easy doesn’t mean there’s no mechanics or skill involved.

Glad there’s no trinity. Complain about how GW2’s combat is a “mess” all you want, but it’s still loads better than a game full of mobs that go, “Man, these guys with daggers and stuff are really hurting me, but I’m gonna attack this guy in the armor because he keeps making fun of me, even though that dude over there in the robe keeps healing up all the gashes I put into him.”

As a tank in other games, I don’t miss the trinity. I had a slight illusion of working together, but in reality it was preset roles playing their role almost indipendently. This system is more flexible, focuses on proactive play and allows people to carry through their skill rather than gear. In a trinity game, if you lack a healer or the guy isn’t geared, it doesn’t matter how good you are, you just fail.

I do think however that the current dungeons don’t really allow the system to shine.

I wish they did it like they had in the original game. Neverwinter has a decent system with a good balance of being able to solo the non dungeon content but needing a old school group for dungeon runs. Latency also has a huge effect in this style of gameplay that can make it undesirable at times that you don`t normally see with the old school system.

Stooperdale.3560:

The next time you want to make a dungeon group, stare at your screen for 30 minutes beforehand to remind yourself what it was like to wait for a healer class for your group.

That’s what I do now. It is rather difficult to discover individuals on Gw2Lfg, unless you want to run a CoF “zerker” group.

I miss trinity lite. Quite a few games have come out with trinity lite lately and it’s been great. Everyone is still dodging and involved with their own major healing in encounters however there are bonuses to having a tanky and healy class in the party.

You get more out of a party that’s built around the trinity lite than you do in just a zerg mentality. I think if they used the trinity lite system they’d see that they could adjust their bosses immunities accordingly and make the game more valuable by improving the combat all around.

I’m hoping that when they look at what to improve in balancing this time they’ll actually improve condition damage builds in PVE and support builds in PVE to make them more valuable in group settings.

Something must be done because this zerker only mentality is only harming the community at this point and artificially inflates the cost of things just like we’re seeing with the traveler’s runes, suddenly it’s just as expensive for those as it is for divinity runes in the TP, if they are truly interested in improving the combat they’ll focus their efforts there after the October 15th update.

Of course it’s not just the combat imbalance that’s the issue it’s also some of the boss/champion designs. Like having bosses that do almost no damage but take ten minutes to kill, or bosses that have an instant kill single skill that they spam periodically, and then there’s my personal favorite, bosses that just do instakill damage without having ANY visual indicator or any broadcast that this skill is about to occur.

I hated the Trinity, was one of the major reasons ( the sub being the other) I and serveral of my friends left WoW.

Harvest.2506:

I hated the Trinity, was one of the major reasons ( the sub being the other) I and serveral of my friends left WoW.

Same here, I hated when they nerfed some essential class so people stopped playing that class like when they made it impossible for priests to solo anything in the healing spec before dual spec was out and we had tons of tanks and DPS but no healers.

Trinity lite improved my combat experience over this game. I played that in Neverwinter so far and it’s been great! They don’t have to have a cleric but when they do I’m awesomesauce everytime!

They could easily do that with this title and improve combat instantly as well as improve the boss fights. Dunno what’s taking them so long to realize that they don’t even have their own trinity in their title atm.

I’d love to play my engineer as a healer engineer in PVE and be the life of the party.

if you miss the holy trinity there are plenty of games that offer it

Aisa.2817:

So basically, we have to keep ourselves alive and work as a team to get through dungeons. What’s wrong with that?

Work as a team? Are we playing the same (PvE) game. My teams seem to work like this.

1. Get in group
2. No need to speak to anyone unless someone doesn’t know what to do
3. Wait for cut scenes.
4. Skip what needs to be skipped
5. Kill what needs to be killed.
6. Type in /s “P2 P3?” or “Ty”

Repeat.

There is no teamwork. Those player may as well be DPS bots or NPCs. Nothing I can do will save them nothing they can do will save me. And we are all better off DPSing our faces off and just avoiding damage in the first place.