Guild Wars 2

When the into trailer for this game first appeared, I can safely say that a LOT of people were excited. There are all these different dragons, each of them having a different effect on the world. As players, we would get the unique opportunity to face them in battle and someday rid the world of them entirely. There are whispers of events in both Cantha and Elona, Palawa Joko has taken over Elona, and Cantha has gone silent. Seeing as these two continents were featured in GW1 expansions, some people (myself included) assumed that we would personally explore these regions and solve their respective problems.

So Guild Wars 2 comes out and I work my way through the campaign and finish the main story. I personally felt it was disjointed, the main villain (Zhaitan) was faceless and flat, they took Tybalt from us and replaced him with the same kitten in every character’s story that so many have come to loathe (you know who i’m talking about.) BUT there were things I liked. Some of the characters had unique personalities and we got nice little snippets of lore and hints at the future. Obviously I wasnt completely satisfied but that was fine… Because I knew that they had plenty of chances to impress me in the future with many more dragons and two more continents (if not more new ones) to explore!

It seemed like I had even more evidence of big content in the future from the new and fun living story content that was being released. The Molten Alliance, Aetherblades, Karka Raging: to me and many others, this pointed towards a larger more important future story for the game. Most likely an expansion. It all had to be leading up to SOMETHING, right?

And THEN: (and youll have to forgive me if I’m late in getting this news, I made a lot of assumptions and wasnt expecting it) Anet announces that there might NEVER be an expansion to this game. To me, this was devastating news. All of the multitudes of options that seemed so DEFINITE before, so certain. They seem to have all faded. And for the life of me I cannot understand why they teased us with this seemingly glorious future with so many secrets to learn and enemies to conquer and then just DROP it all! Besides the fact that it probably sold a number of game copies of course…

All of my hopes for this game seem to have vanished. No new races or professions, no new continents, no new dragons to fight, no more personal story (and the living story doesnt count, it’s highly impersonal by comparison.) What happened to the… the EPICNESS of a legendary story of a hero working to free the oppressed people of Tyria? To me it seems gone.

I’ve talked to other players about this. Some of them are happy, for various reasons. Some feel that expansions will divide the player base (and in some ways I can agree that’s a possibility.) Some are appeased simply because expansions cost money and they dont want to pay it. Some are content because they are fine with just playing endless World Versus. World matches and PvP material. And others like myself, are extremely worried for what this means for the future of the game. I’d like more opinions on this. More postulation. More options. And if I can get it, a response from Anet that gives me some measure of comfort regarding my concerns in this matter.

I want to respect everyone’s opinion on this topic and in return, I’d like you to try and respect mine. If you bothered to read all of this then you understand that I have strong feelings on the subject. Try not to dismiss my opinion on this simply because you don’t agree with it and i’ll do my best to do the same for you. Engage.

So, you didn’t actually read the article that announced the “no expansion” thing then?

They made it quite clear in that very article that they will add new areas and stuff found in expansions via the Living story (they already added an area this way, back in November, Southsun Cove).

I would personally say that this is a BETTER way to get all those epic stuff out, since an expansion will always be somewhat limited, but releases every 2 weeks can add quite a bit of side-tracks or whatever without people having to wait a year or so.

lordkrall.7241:

So, you didn’t actually read the article that announced the “no expansion” thing then?

They made it quite clear in that very article that they will add new areas and stuff found in expansions via the Living story (they already added an area this way, back in November, Southsun Cove).

I would personally say that this is a BETTER way to get all those epic stuff out, since an expansion will always be somewhat limited, but releases every 2 weeks can add quite a bit of side-tracks or whatever without people having to wait a year or so.

Aye, doesnt surprise me that I missed an article or two. I get most of my information from in-game players. However I did understand that they planned to add more areas via the Living Story. Perhaps what I’m doubting is exactly how much content they can add with this method. I mean if you tell me" they can add the entire continent of Cantha" then I’d be doubtful but optimistic

They will most likely not add a whole continent in one release, but it is fully possible to release one part at a time.

The only reason expansions can do that is because they takes a long time before they are released, what ArenaNet is doing is simply cutting it into pieces and giving us some of them here and there instead of a big chunk once a year.

I do fear this game might not last.

I love the idea of the living story. So far I have had a great experience with it. I normally procrastinate and wait forever to get things done, but I can’t here. This gets me living in the present, hanging out with friends and making memories. And it leaves me filling accomplished… somewhat.

But I worry that the living story will not bring in enough permanent content… I want to see new races, classes, skills, dragons, maps, character options and more. Most importantly… I want this game to last.

So I hope they can pull it off because it’s a great idea… but they must be careful. This could crash and burn easy and it already seems to be upsetting many players. Expansions are something we are used to and gives us something we can look forward to. I would LOVE to have good, solid content I can look forward to.

So, basically. I fear that the Living Story method of adding content could kill GW2… but I’m on board with the experiment. I like the fact that they are trying new ideas and being innovative. I just hope that if it does fail they go back to expansions.

Colin has also said they haven’t decided one way or the other on Expansions.. The whole “No expansions ever” has been widely misquoted and the context forgotten. The dev who said this initially was trying to say that they want to explore the viability of the living story and hope to get it to a point where it can actually replace the function of expansions. By having content released every two weeks they could actually uncover parts of Cantha in a meaningful and realistic way for example. But honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if an expansion is in the works…

lordkrall.7241:

They will most likely not add a whole continent in one release, but it is fully possible to release one part at a time.

The only reason expansions can do that is because they takes a long time before they are released, what ArenaNet is doing is simply cutting it into pieces and giving us some of them here and there instead of a big chunk once a year.

Mmmm… like I said, Cautiously Optimistic. I REALLY hope youre right. On another note, you said that it’s possible. Now i’d like to ask if you personally think it will happen that way, and if youre looking forward to it : )

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Colin has also said they haven’t decided one way or the other on Expansions.. The whole “No expansions ever” has been widely misquoted and the context forgotten. The dev who said this initially was trying to say that they want to explore the viability of the living story and hope to get it to a point where it can actually replace the function of expansions. By having content released every two weeks they could actually uncover parts of Cantha in a meaningful and realistic way for example. But honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if an expansion is in the works…

Something I just thought of: Even if they can release Cantha/Elona areas through living story content, what will they do in regards to the world map? Do you think they’ll expand it or will it be another map entirely? If the latter, do you think it can be done through Living story content? Thanks for your contribution.

Aguri.2896:

I do fear this game might not last.

I love the idea of the living story. So far I have had a great experience with it. I normally procrastinate and wait forever to get things done, but I can’t here. This gets me living in the present, hanging out with friends and making memories. And it leaves me filling accomplished… somewhat.

But I worry that the living story will not bring in enough permanent content… I want to see new races, classes, skills, dragons, maps, character options and more. Most importantly… I want this game to last.

So I hope they can pull it off because it’s a great idea… but they must be careful. This could crash and burn easy and it already seems to be upsetting many players. Expansions are something we are used to and gives us something we can look forward to. I would LOVE to have good, solid content I can look forward to.

So, basically. I fear that the Living Story method of adding content could kill GW2… but I’m on board with the experiment. I like the fact that they are trying new ideas and being innovative. I just hope that if it does fail they go back to expansions.

Aye, a number of players seem to be concerned with the temporary nature of the living story content. I would personally be happier if it was a permanent addition, almost like another campaign all strung together. You’ve said basically everything I wanted to hear. Thanks for your contribution.

Nightingale.9714:

Mmmm… like I said, Cautiously Optimistic. I REALLY hope youre right. On another note, you said that it’s possible. Now i’d like to ask if you personally think it will happen that way, and if youre looking forward to it : )

Yes, I think it will happen that way and I am indeed looking forward to it.
I personally prefer new additions to a game that actually makes sense in the game-world, not just suddenly discovering a whole new continent just like that with an expansion pack.

lordkrall.7241:

Nightingale.9714:

Mmmm… like I said, Cautiously Optimistic. I REALLY hope youre right. On another note, you said that it’s possible. Now i’d like to ask if you personally think it will happen that way, and if youre looking forward to it : )

Yes, I think it will happen that way and I am indeed looking forward to it.
I personally prefer new additions to a game that actually makes sense in the game-world, not just suddenly discovering a whole new continent just like that with an expansion pack.

Ah, yeah I can see what you mean by the “making sense in the game world” sort of context. I’m personally hoping that it will be a Whispers operation for Elona or something. Like: we finally found a way to smuggle you into Elona… are you prepared? q. Yes. then LOADING SCREEN, then: ELONA MAP! WOO HOO! ^-^

try this one:
http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/guild-returning-cantha-elona.html

the reason why I prefer the Living Story can be summed up with this quote:

Perhaps the clearest message from our time with Mike is that ArenaNet are constantly listening to their fans and that this new fortnightly ‘Living World’ update strategy allows the studio, which now consists of 300 developers and four Living World teams, to be more flexible and reactive when it comes to answering fans’ needs and desires. Be it nuts and bolts features like linking elite gear with achievements or returning to continents which have otherwise been overlooked.

Colin also mentioned this:

• As we recently announced, we’re up to four living world teams now, which means they will have a much longer development cycle later this year to build more polished content, and content that can be more impactful.

• The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month.

• We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival.

So as a year has gone by most of the core-structures for holiday events are finished and the devs can focus on other stuff as well. Each team (there are 4 teams now) has much more time to work on the Living Story updates so we can expect those becoming bigger and better. It was also stated that the content which would normally be in an expansion is considered as living story updates… so new races, new weapons, new continents is absolutely possible this way.

I love the current release: the Zephyrites have a deep connection to the core Guild Wars lore which I love. Listen to the songs they sing, listen to the teacher on the airship who tells that story to the children… it’s awesome.

The one thing I don’t like: I love that we get new content each 2 weeks now, but I don’t like that new areas are temporary. I don’t like that you can do awesome new activities this month and next month they’re gone. People would focus on the new content anyway, but they won’t feel stressed because they know they can do it on their own scedule.

I can see that it’s important to make activities temporary… but scavenger hunts like the sky crystals in Labyrinthe Cliffs should stay imho. It’s this single-player activity which people can do when there’s not much else they prefer doing. The sprint could be a rotating activity since people would spread out too much when a lot of minigames are available at the same time.

Nightingale.9714:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Colin has also said they haven’t decided one way or the other on Expansions.. The whole “No expansions ever” has been widely misquoted and the context forgotten. The dev who said this initially was trying to say that they want to explore the viability of the living story and hope to get it to a point where it can actually replace the function of expansions. By having content released every two weeks they could actually uncover parts of Cantha in a meaningful and realistic way for example. But honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if an expansion is in the works…

Something I just thought of: Even if they can release Cantha/Elona areas through living story content, what will they do in regards to the world map? Do you think they’ll expand it or will it be another map entirely? If the latter, do you think it can be done through Living story content? Thanks for your contribution.

Well what they did in the first game was with Cantha it was a boat trip to a new island. Since they already have the boat mechanic set up for going to southsun/ cliffs I can see them doing it this way. With living story it will be possible. With Elona they will just make it a separate map again, even though it’s the lower have of the crystal desert area and is apart of the main Tyrian map, it sections it off because it’s its own country.

To be fair though as much as I love Cantha and -somewhat- Elona. I would rather worry about the rest of that large map we have now to be filled in. Until we have finished fighting all 5 dragons, seen fire islands, crystal desert, isle of janthir and the northern shiverpeaks (where the HoM is currently located) The inclusion of Tengu playable race and maybe the inclusion of largos, then we can worry about what then crazy kurzicks, luxons and palawa joko is up to these days.

@ Marcus.

WOW dude. That was one impressive post. I agree on the temp content, I REALLY want it to be permanent and I’m impressed by your solutions for it. Thank you very much for the quotes and the link to that article about Cantha and Elona, you really lifted my spirits. You seem very well informed and I’m more than satisfied by your response. I just hope we dont have to wait too long for it! xD Thanks again for putting so much time into your post and comforting a weary old man…. (I’m actually only 23, but it sounded appropriate)

zityz.6089:

Nightingale.9714:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Colin has also said they haven’t decided one way or the other on Expansions.. The whole “No expansions ever” has been widely misquoted and the context forgotten. The dev who said this initially was trying to say that they want to explore the viability of the living story and hope to get it to a point where it can actually replace the function of expansions. By having content released every two weeks they could actually uncover parts of Cantha in a meaningful and realistic way for example. But honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if an expansion is in the works…

Something I just thought of: Even if they can release Cantha/Elona areas through living story content, what will they do in regards to the world map? Do you think they’ll expand it or will it be another map entirely? If the latter, do you think it can be done through Living story content? Thanks for your contribution.

Well what they did in the first game was with Cantha it was a boat trip to a new island. Since they already have the boat mechanic set up for going to southsun/ cliffs I can see them doing it this way. With living story it will be possible. With Elona they will just make it a separate map again, even though it’s the lower have of the crystal desert area and is apart of the main Tyrian map, it sections it off because it’s its own country.

To be fair though as much as I love Cantha and -somewhat- Elona. I would rather worry about the rest of that large map we have now to be filled in. Until we have finished fighting all 5 dragons, seen fire islands, crystal desert, isle of janthir and the northern shiverpeaks (where the HoM is currently located) The inclusion of Tengu playable race and maybe the inclusion of largos, then we can worry about what then crazy kurzicks, luxons and palawa joko is up to these days.

I’m happy to see that youre as excited as I am for this kind of story content. Truth is though I didnt mean to make this post all about those continents, they just happened to be what got discussed. I agree with you on the dragons and races. I want to see ALL OF IT DUDE! >:D As I just told another poster I just hope we dont have to wait too long. Feeling a lot happier about living story now thanks to you people. Thanks for your post.

Side note @ Zityz, the Luxons and Kurzicks were dissolved by Emperor Usoku so there are no vassal states anymore – everyone is just Canthan.

just wanted to add another quote from Colin:

Just to clarify a bit, as Mike said there are numerous teams beyond our Living World teams, and some of them are working on much longer term projects which we’ll go into details on much further down the road.

It’s entirely possible some of the types of content which you might traditionally find in expansions would be released through an expansion in the future for Gw2, and it’s possible we’d try something different when it comes to integrating those type of releases.

We have no final plans one way or another about expansions at this time, and certainly haven’t ruled them out, it’s something we’ll discuss more in the future.

Edited to add: Our primary focus right now is on making the core Gw2 experience as strong and compelling as possible, we’ll release a blog post later this month detailing more specifically our plans for Gw2 in the second half of 2013.

So keep your eyes open at the end of this month

The Living Story is nothing more then a content delivery system. IF they dont do an expansion it doesnt mean they’re not going to do the content you’d find in the expansion , it means it will not be packaged in a box for you to buy. Instead if they decide to say go with the Palawa Joko storyline for example. They’ll work on that using the long term teams (the living story are teams are used for shorter storylines) when they’ll get it nearly complete they’ll have the LS team do a tie in story. Say mummies will invade the charr lands and we’ll get some Living story about defending the area. Then they’ll release say 2 zones into the crystal dessert were we go to investigate whats going on. 2 weeks later we might get another 2 zones as we try to dive deeper in Palawa Joko domain. 2 weeks after that we might get another 2 zones were we consolidate our forces so that 2 weeks later we get to storm the bone palace.

This is all fictitious of course we have no idea how it will work. What we know is they’ll still work on long term content you’d find in an expansion it just they’ll release that gradually thought the living story rather then all at once through an expansion.

If done right it could work even better giving better context to everything.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Side note @ Zityz, the Luxons and Kurzicks were dissolved by Emperor Usoku so there are no vassal states anymore – everyone is just Canthan.

Really? Did not know that. That’s actually very interesting but I can see them playing some kind of rebel alliance against the emperor or something. Cool to know though

I was discussing this with some friends and we thought out how they could add expansion like content with the LS.

For example, consider Nightfall:

-Living Story starts with reports of unusual magic disturbances. Players investigate. Discover something is messing with fabric of reality.
- Kormir shows up just as Nightmare demons start spawning in LA. Players have a instanced story step or dungeon where they push back the demons and seal the portals. Kormir explains the source of the issue and players saddle up to head to elona.
- New zone is Istan or at least part of it. Players arrive and have a few intanced story steps introducing them to the new hub and several key characters (Koss and co). Players have a chance to explore and learn about the area.

Now as you can see by those steps you could use Living Story releases to roll out pretty much the same story as you would have had from the same expansion. Potentially you could have had LA characters arrive earlier in the story and be involved in the early steps the Elonan characters had in Nightfall.

My point is that there is nothing stopping them from rolling out ‘Expansions’ in chapters. Theres also nothing to say that they cant have different sized releases. They could introduce a new race by simply having a large major release that opened up their starting area, city and introduced the race for the other characters.

There are some awesome ideas in this thread. My ONLY request with regards to bringing in lore heavy LS additions is that the vital parts to it, like the discovering of a new continent or travelling to Cantha/Elona, are made permanent additions to the world, so newer players will be able to make a seamless transition. Otherwise it will seem pretty awkward for them, and they’d have a huge gap in the lore.

lordkrall.7241:

They will most likely not add a whole continent in one release, but it is fully possible to release one part at a time.

The only reason expansions can do that is because they takes a long time before they are released, what ArenaNet is doing is simply cutting it into pieces and giving us some of them here and there instead of a big chunk once a year.

That entirely seems boring and would have to have a lot of backend work. The anticipation factor in an expansion or large update is the fact that you have so much to explore, learn and do. One map at a time? Meh, it would become repetitive and timely just to explore. I don’t plan on spending a lot of 6+months trying to explore and do everything in an new continent. How can that even be explained in a lore sense? “Oh you can’t go any further, closed off until future notice” Two weeks comes, boom unlocked and then blocked again.

A continent or large map introduced in a lump sum is exhilarating imo. Granted, they can easily expand the story in the maps with the living story, but simply giving us one map at a time would created an increased grind to run the map over and over, until the next one is released. then jump to the next. Leaving behind zones such as southsun that no longer serve a purpose besides randomly running through.

I could settle for a group of maps being introduced at once, to give players that explorer sense. For example in southsun, the first time I was in the map I was ecstatic to run around check it out, was eager to find out what awaits us in the areas beyond. But now I lost that eager feel, and it’s out of sight, out of mind kinda deal.

Antara.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

They will most likely not add a whole continent in one release, but it is fully possible to release one part at a time.

The only reason expansions can do that is because they takes a long time before they are released, what ArenaNet is doing is simply cutting it into pieces and giving us some of them here and there instead of a big chunk once a year.

That entirely seems boring and would have to have a lot of backend work. The anticipation factor in an expansion or large update is the fact that you have so much to explore, learn and do. One map at a time? Meh, it would become repetitive and timely just to explore. I don’t plan on spending a lot of 6+months trying to explore and do everything in an new continent. How can that even be explained in a lore sense? “Oh you can’t go any further, closed off until future notice” Two weeks comes, boom unlocked and then blocked again.

A continent or large map introduced in a lump sum is exhilarating imo. Granted, they can easily expand the story in the maps with the living story, but simply giving us one map at a time would created an increased grind to run the map over and over, until the next one is released. then jump to the next. Leaving behind zones such as southsun that no longer serve a purpose besides randomly running through.

I could settle for a group of maps being introduced at once, to give players that explorer sense. For example in southsun, the first time I was in the map I was ecstatic to run around check it out, was eager to find out what awaits us in the areas beyond. But now I lost that eager feel, and it’s out of sight, out of mind kinda deal.

I can agree with you about the “one map at a time thing.” I can see why that would be too slow. However from what people have told me in this now AWESOME thread is that it’s more than possible to release a large chunk of places like Elona. How large? I cant answer that for sure, but hopefully large enough to avoid what youre talking about.

Also, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that if they released content for Elona such as a new map, they would NOT remove it again from the game. I’m already seeing that the content we’re getting now is constantly modified due to our input and it seems a lot of people are dissatisfied by it’s temporary nature. Elonian and Cantha-based content would be of greater importance and thus unlikely to be removed.

Colin is doing a livestream today… about future plans

Antara.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

They will most likely not add a whole continent in one release, but it is fully possible to release one part at a time.

The only reason expansions can do that is because they takes a long time before they are released, what ArenaNet is doing is simply cutting it into pieces and giving us some of them here and there instead of a big chunk once a year.

That entirely seems boring and would have to have a lot of backend work. The anticipation factor in an expansion or large update is the fact that you have so much to explore, learn and do. One map at a time? Meh, it would become repetitive and timely just to explore. I don’t plan on spending a lot of 6+months trying to explore and do everything in an new continent. How can that even be explained in a lore sense? “Oh you can’t go any further, closed off until future notice” Two weeks comes, boom unlocked and then blocked again.

A continent or large map introduced in a lump sum is exhilarating imo. Granted, they can easily expand the story in the maps with the living story, but simply giving us one map at a time would created an increased grind to run the map over and over, until the next one is released. then jump to the next. Leaving behind zones such as southsun that no longer serve a purpose besides randomly running through.

I could settle for a group of maps being introduced at once, to give players that explorer sense. For example in southsun, the first time I was in the map I was ecstatic to run around check it out, was eager to find out what awaits us in the areas beyond. But now I lost that eager feel, and it’s out of sight, out of mind kinda deal.

How could it be explained in the lore sense. Quite easily I think.

Explorers didn’t race through new areas even in real life. They went places, spent time with the people of those places, got the lay of the land, set up settlements sometimes…before pushing on to the next area.

Do you know how many years it took explorers to cross the mainland US?

I can only assume Lewis and Clark didn’t run up and down the coastline looking for vistas and points of interest, only to move on and discover Texas.

In fact most explorers are only credited for discovering and going to very small areas.

Let’s not forget that Cantha and Elona each have pretty distinct regions in themselves. Assuming that going to Cantha (should it ever be allowed by NCSoft) merits a bigger dedication than that of just one LS (like those long-term teams Collin talked about), it might be reasonable to expect 4ish zones of say, the Imperial City in either one big, or two small updates. Then we get 4ish zones of the Jade Sea in an update or two. Maybe Shing Jea is a warmup update for the 2 weeks before the big one where we go to the mainland. If exploring new continents 2 weeks at a time is the price I pay for not having to drop $60 on another box (metaphorically speaking), then I’m just fine with it.