Guild Wars 2

TexZero.7910:

It goes to show how invalid the rationale behind your assertion that the story is only ambiguous because its incomplete.

It’s ambiguous because its told poorly.

If a story has poor plot development with no sense of direction or correlation to its direction in the case of this event then it becomes …Vague.

Ah, you replied to me asking about constantly battling Champions. That’s why I didn’t understand.

Please, explain how you’re supposed to know all of the plot points before you get to it?

How do you know that it has no sense of direction if you don’t know where it’s heading? The destination isn’t apparent now because we haven’t hit all of the plot points.

So yeah, while it may be poorly told, your rationale that there is no direction is also invalid, since you don’t know the destination.

Grevender.9235:

although is obvious that Flame & Frost is a test (and it’s okay to test as much new things as possible!!!), it amazes me that people still want to know more about a plot that no one must know. Things happens, that’s all you need to know, and you can act or just ignore like you would do IRL. It’s not like the bad guys will send you a personal message stating why they are allied, why they are attacking, why you should act (and how!) etc. C’mon…

I don’t quiet see your reasoning here.. Things that are happening in flame and frost are grounds for investigation. Upon learning the flame legion and dredge working together… that’s even more of reason for investigation.. Who would ever thought the unlikey two races would pair up.. Which then leads to more questions of what they are planning and what their motives are.

TheDaiBish.9735:

TexZero.7910:

It goes to show how invalid the rationale behind your assertion that the story is only ambiguous because its incomplete.

It’s ambiguous because its told poorly.

If a story has poor plot development with no sense of direction or correlation to its direction in the case of this event then it becomes …Vague.

Ah, you replied to me asking about constantly battling Champions. That’s why I didn’t understand.

Please, explain how you’re supposed to know all of the plot points before you get to it?

How do you know that it has no sense of direction if you don’t know where it’s heading? The destination isn’t apparent now because we haven’t hit all of the plot points.

So yeah, while it may be poorly told, your rationale that there is no direction is also invalid, since you don’t know the destination.

On the Contrary, i know the destination. Southsun cove, that much was made clear.
The problem is the lacking development in the journey of these “refugees” and the survivors. Other than suddenly appearing in Lions Arch we have very little to go on as to…. Where they came from (a big problem for the hunting down of their trinkets). Their intended path of travel is also a big problem, most of them seemingly were either too brazen or genuinely unfortunate…but we the “wheels / driving factor” of this living story have no part other than UPS pick up boy. Not even a simple cutscene upon returning their mementos showing their trek, nothing to emotionally bond you to them. It’s lacking in the story telling department big time.

Sadly, I agree with the OP.

It’s vague in some point, because it fails with immersion, it fails alot to give the players immersion in all that’s is going on.

In other way, it would be fixable with this:
- More Content, really, it needs more, not just a event and some achivs, it since it is a monthly update it needs enough content to the month!
- More Immersion, really, it needs to get players attention to follow the story, I suppose with voice acting for example, or even one of those awesome Cinematic that Designers did (but a very limited number of them =/)… those would improve. For me a text window telling me something, doesn’t make me fell that I’m Living a Story.

TexZero.7910:

On the Contrary, i know the destination. Southsun cove, that much was made clear.
The problem is the lacking development in the journey of these “refugees” and the survivors. Other than suddenly appearing in Lions Arch we have very little to go on as to…. Where they came from (a big problem for the hunting down of their trinkets). Their intended path of travel is also a big problem, most of them seemingly were either too brazen or genuinely unfortunate…but we the “wheels / driving factor” of this living story have no part other than UPS pick up boy. Not even a simple cutscene upon returning their mementos showing their trek, nothing to emotionally bond you to them. It’s lacking in the story telling department big time.

Ok, the physical destination is Southsun. In terms of getting to the destination (that is, the end) of the story:

• How do the Dredge and Flame Legion factor into all of this?
• What’s up with the weather?
• Why the Norn and Charr? Why not the Sylvari?

Since we don’t have all of these, we can’t say that there is poor direction.

The other points though I have no particular feeling on. The refugees tell enough about who and what they lost on the way to LA for me. My mind fills in the blanks.

I kind of like it.
Things are happening in the game in real time, is what they’re trying to do. and rather than been centre focus of the story we kind of find it. My take on it:

so part one, we hear rumours of refugeess coming from the mountains, all to scared and injured to tell us what going on but in need of help, so we help as many as we can to the major cities for shelter (takes about a month cos they walk slow).
Part two, they calm enough to tell us what happened ,as abstract as it is and we hear of some of them losing their most treasure belongings. you help one or two and as more people flood in over the month more request for lost stuff are made (they really are taking advantage of my good will). on the search we find out its (spoiler) flame legion and dredge who are behind it, and we holt their advance down the mountain.
we don’t know why they attacked, why they want these people dead, or what their end game is.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ok, the physical destination is Southsun. In terms of getting to the destination (that is, the end) of the story:

• How do the Dredge and Flame Legion factor into all of this?
• What’s up with the weather?
• Why the Norn and Charr? Why not the Sylvari?

Since we don’t have all of these, we can’t say that there is poor direction.

The other points though I have no particular feeling on. The refugees tell enough about who and what they lost on the way to LA for me. My mind fills in the blanks.

Again very relevant to poor story telling. Especially if you’re going to call this a “Living Story”.

The direction and even more so, the pacing of this 4 part event is way off.

We’ve had 2 parts directly dedicated to being nothing more than errand boys. Nothing to show why the dredge and flame legion are working together(etc)…One could be lead to many assumptions, but the very nature of telling a story is to not leave it to ones assumptions but to guide them through the chaos as if they were living it. A really good story makes you feel emotionally and physically attached to it….Im getting none of that.

The sad fact is they don’t do anything to engross you in the events. If you want to deny that then i do have to question what kind of literary works you enjoy.

OP hit the nail on the head. When part 2 came up I went and spoke to the heralds in both Black Citadel and Hoelbraek. They sounded more disinterested than I was.. they said something like “Something about…” or something equally boring. There was no sense that they were engaged in the events around me. Why should I be?

Anyway, despite the complete lack of information, the aNet hints and interviews are enough to divine how this will pan out. They wanted us to spend time in n00b zones and Southsun Cove, because they were empty after the Lost Shores debacle…

SPOILER ALERT********

The entire event is plot development for the first expansion pack, which will revolve around fighting and defeating Jormag (it should drop about a year post release, so let’s say September 2013). The dredge/flame legion/grawl/sons of svanir have begun worshipping Jormag or something. As a result, another part of Jormag will drop in the final part (April 26), probably a flame based dragon, who will be in Southsun Cove, snf who will act as a kind of companion battle to the Claw of Jormag fight in Frostgorge Sound. They will also add some pretty refugee homes to Southsun Cove this month that will give you another reason to return to those sunny shores (for about 5 minutes, or if you’re a masochist, 5 hours of passion flower farming).

All of the above I know because I am psychic.

I know you guys are incapable of finding the right information on the living story, which totally isn’t (completely) your fault, but i just want to put this here:

From the GuildWars2.com main web site blog:
Living story article – Angel Leigh McCoy

These first couple months of teaser content have allowed us to ramp up to make the long-term Living Story an even fuller and more satisfying experience for you all. As designers have come off other projects and joined us, we’ve increased the amount of content we’ll be delivering,starting at the end of March.

Good point. The actual story hasn’t started yet.

TexZero.7910:

Again very relevant to poor story telling. Especially if you’re going to call this a “Living Story”.

The direction and even more so, the pacing of this 4 part event is way off.

Again, how do you know?

This part of the living story could lead onto another one. Who is saying that the story will end with the threat being dealt with?

TexZero.7910:

We’ve had 2 parts directly dedicated to being nothing more than errand boys. Nothing to show why the dredge and flame legion are working together(etc)…One could be lead to many assumptions, but the very nature of telling a story is to not leave it to ones assumptions but to guide them through the chaos as if they were living it.

People are going to assume until the story is complete anyway.

Case example: Harry Potter.

When it was revealed Voldy was using Horcruxes, fans started to contemplate and theorise what the remaining Horcruxes are.

As is, the story is currently being told. That’s why we don’t know why the Flame Legion and Dredge are working together and such and such.

You seem to be treating this as a complete story, and not a story in progress.

TexZero.7910:

The sad fact is they don’t do anything to engross you in the events. If you want to deny that then i do have to question what kind of literary works you enjoy.

I enjoy mostly mystery and fantasy. Few examples:

• The Dresden Files
• Chronicles of the Raven
• The Shannara Series (Sword of Shannara, Voyage of the Jerle Shannara ect)
• Lord of the Rings

FrizzFreston.5290:

I know you guys are incapable of finding the right information on the living story, which totally isn’t (completely) your fault, but i just want to put this here:

From the GuildWars2.com main web site blog:
Living story article – Angel Leigh McCoy

These first couple months of teaser content have allowed us to ramp up to make the long-term Living Story an even fuller and more satisfying experience for you all. As designers have come off other projects and joined us, we’ve increased the amount of content we’ll be delivering,starting at the end of March.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/march-2013/

March 26, 2013

A hybrid army erupts through fiery portals in the Shiverpeaks. A Molten Alliance between the dredge and the charr Flame Legion has created a force powerful enough to massacre any who stand in their way. One settlement, one homestead at a time, they’re wiping out all resistance. The razing has begun.

In Flame and Frost: The Razing you’ll meet the norn Braham and Rox the charr, two Tyrians who fervently believe in doing what’s right, no matter the risk. Join Braham and Rox in a desperate battle to defend their homelands from annihilation in the third installment in this four-part series!

But that’s okay, keep telling me the story isnt happening….considering we are already in phase 2 of 4. I actually believe that the story isnt happening, because ANET dropped the ball on telling a story this time and focused way to hard on a system instead.

I do not mind so much that the story isn’t advancing fast but I personally mind that it’s not gaining depth either. Everything seems so shallow. You meet those NPCs who lost their belongings but even if you find their stuff you don’t get to know much more about them as they tell you.

Compared to Harry Potter this is like Harry was discribed rumaging endlessly in his aunts house and a month later they publish the next part.

TheDaiBish.9735:

digiowl.9620:

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

You’re constantly battling Champions? With no respite?

Consider it a hyperbolic euphemism.

Anyways, i find myself wishing i could hit a icon in NPC conversations and have the text show up in some kind of collection (perhaps even in the event sidebar) for easy reference while out in the field.

Then again i sometimes wonder if ANet designed this game for the boys with elaborate setups of third party tools and massive stacks of ready to use notepads.

TexZero.7910:

But that’s okay, keep telling me the story isnt happening….considering we are already in phase 2 of 4. I actually believe that the story isnt happening, because ANET dropped the ball on telling a story this time and focused way to hard on a system instead.

Teaser content is teaser content, it doesn’t matter whether it’s the first second or third instalment. I directed you basically to the article without a link , so I can’t blame your fool-hardiness.

Same article as before this time with link:
Angel Leigh McCoy – Living Story: Evolution

We’ve had long meetings, with our most colorful thinking caps on, to discuss how we will pay off all your patience during these early months of teaser content,

Colin Johanson, MMORPG interview on Flame and Frost*

World-narrative wise, February continues to build the fundamentals of this story to provide more hints and growth to this storyline as it builds into the core components and takes off in March and April.

And
Colin Johanson in a 4 part interview with Guildwars2guru.com

GURU: So what kind of sort of changes might we see to the world itself as the Living Story progresses?
Colin: I think you’re not going to see a ton of stuff in February. It’s mostly just a little more setup stuff. We hit the end of the year and decided to really make that a big thing for 2013 and as a result we really just didn’t have time to build that much stuff yet. I think, looking ahead, March and April is more when we kind of get in to the cadence of what a Living Story can be. Other than that we’ll build from there as the year goes on.

Just to note, that part 3 and part 4 are more in the right direction, means that its also still teaser content, I believe. And they focus on the system much more because once it is in place, then you can tell the story, It’s like inventing the TV before inventing the TV program.

Well to use your metaphor it’s like advertising TV program before you invented the TV. The story is headline for their updates so I wouldn’t too astonished that people expect a story and not some teasers of a somewhere in future happening story.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Is anyone else getting the feeling Frost and Flame is a “test run” of the system to see if they can pull it off before jumping into things more complex?

Watch it! Common sense and logic will get you burnt at the stake around here.

To be honest though, I am only doing the living story at the moment for the karma (I have decided it tastes like bacon). It is a bit bland. However, I did search the map a little and noticed that the Tengu have set up a new (inaccessible) settlement somewhere (or I never noticed it before, but a few other players seem to think it’s new): so there are definitely some interesting undercurrents.

FrizzFreston.5290:

TexZero.7910:

But that’s okay, keep telling me the story isnt happening….considering we are already in phase 2 of 4. I actually believe that the story isnt happening, because ANET dropped the ball on telling a story this time and focused way to hard on a system instead.

Teaser content is teaser content, it doesn’t matter whether it’s the first second or third instalment. I directed you basically to the article without a link , so I can’t blame your fool-hardiness.

Same article as before this time with link:
Angel Leigh McCoy – Living Story: Evolution

We’ve had long meetings, with our most colorful thinking caps on, to discuss how we will pay off all your patience during these early months of teaser content,

Colin Johanson, MMORPG interview on Flame and Frost*

World-narrative wise, February continues to build the fundamentals of this story to provide more hints and growth to this storyline as it builds into the core components and takes off in March and April.

And
Colin Johanson in a 4 part interview with Guildwars2guru.com

GURU: So what kind of sort of changes might we see to the world itself as the Living Story progresses?
Colin: I think you’re not going to see a ton of stuff in February. It’s mostly just a little more setup stuff. We hit the end of the year and decided to really make that a big thing for 2013 and as a result we really just didn’t have time to build that much stuff yet. I think, looking ahead, March and April is more when we kind of get in to the cadence of what a Living Story can be. Other than that we’ll build from there as the year goes on.

Just to note, that part 3 and part 4 are more in the right direction, means that its also still teaser content, I believe. And they focus on the system much more because once it is in place, then you can tell the story, It’s like inventing the TV before inventing the TV program.

I have to point this out…

The system was already in place. Any programmer worth their pay knows how to write an automated script. Anet is pulling legs if they think setting flags in a script is somehow new.

Too much gullibility here. It’s not teaser content, its being lazy.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Since the start of this living story I have felt like someone who is reading every tenth page of a novel. Sure, I vaguely understand what is going on, but in practice it feels disjointed and random.

I didn’t read the whole thread. I just wanted to add my +1 to this sentiment. I really would like to get into it and follow it, but I just don’t know what’s going on and there’s no real hook to get me to care.

You’re dropping the ball on this one, A-Net. Cool idea that seems to be poorly executed. FWIW.

Pirlipat.2479:

Well to use your metaphor it’s like advertising TV program before you invented the TV. The story is headline for their updates so I wouldn’t too astonished that people expect a story and not some teasers of a somewhere in future happening story.

Yeah I can agree to that. I must admit I don’t really like waiting two months for something new to come out, while teasing us with new things that might come out.
But to fully judge on the living story on some teaser content is just not right. The way they presented it is alright in my opinion, but gamers, including me, aren’t very patient :p

In a way, you could say this is empowering for ArenaNet, knowing that people ARE indeed waiting for it. On the other hand it leads to hyping every new bit of content, which will just lead into disappointment. And making your playerbase wait for seemingly small updates.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people would be disappointed over the next bit of teaser content. (Since it’s still that) But if they somehow manage to pull off to update the game’s “living story” over the WHOLE of Tyria, I would be amazed. Now it’s only 2 zones they are using.

If this months update is a good example of what they can bring out, I myself hope they will do this on a monthly basis, because now it feels they’re stalling it a bit.
We’re basically watching a plant grow from scratch. And while it’s still small, we say it’s just weeds. =p

My husband and I are lost too…We’ve found a memento or two…is there anything beyond that?? We’ve rebuilt the signs, helped refugees… I always feel lost every event though.

Skylightmoon.1079:

lol yur making a big deal outta this when it doesnt need to be. My god if you put in a little effort you would find its rather simple. I mean, first off, the new camp is in LA. There is a star marking it on the map. LA is one of the most popular spots in the game, I have a hard time believing you didnt overhear or even notice in the corner of your eye a new star on the map. There are 5 or 6 npcs to talk to there, they give you a little viewpoint of whats goin on. If you bothered during the Jan update, youd see each week new npcs showed up in the refugee camps. They would give you some snippits. Initially it was vague, week 2 and 3 suggested dredge and flame legion, but no direct connection between the two, and the last week finally confirmed their alliance by an npc. I think it would be unnecessary for a herald to send you mail each time a new npc showed up, or a new snow-covered object was found. If you’re too lazy to search, then thats ok, plenty of other players arnt. Finding the refugee items takes like 15 minutes. Just go to a zone and ask mapchat and chances are they will know.

To be honest I started ignoring the ones in LA because the one I talked to was vague and just said “There are things going on elsewhere.” And no, I don’t spend a lot of time in LA, so I didn’t really stumble on it. I guess my thought is that they’ve seriously devalued the point of those yellow stars, by tying them to things that are actually useless in terms of progression. I was trained quickly by the game to ignore the ones in the cities because when I talked to them they all gave me the same “Something is happening message.” So I didn’t bother checking around the next week, or looking at others. It’s not that I’m particularly upset by this. I just think it’s a flaw in the UI system. It’s like the error message that you click ignore on every time it comes up. Eventually it trains you to ignore all of those.

I agree with the OP, this event isn’t well done at all

Long term stories should be done in a way that from the very start grabs the attention of the players and gives them aims and rewards and at most start a week after the last stage instead of a month wait
Losing a event should have consequences, if you can repeat missions over and over till you win it takes away the importance of getting it right in the first place.

If I was running a similar event It would run something like what ive put below. 4 weeks of large events involving a server working together to win, with the world map changed by the event so future players can comment on missing an epic event :P

I rushed this out but you get the idea.

Week 1: Stage 1: Grab the players attention
Villagers are forced to evacuate because an odd amount of rivers are becoming diverted into their villages or landslides becoming more frequent.

Mission: Help the villagers evacuate from the apparent natural disasters and investigate, they end up being caused by creatures mining and draining rivers looking for something..

Week 2: Step 2: Introduce a mysterious threat
Rumours circulate that the priory found an artifact in the north but need to take it to the south to investigate it properly. Murders on the roads are becoming more and more common, no trace of the victims is left other and no goods are stolen. They appear to have started around the same time.

Mission: Escort a set of caravan down a long road, odd creatures attack the caravan, you fend off a minor boss, he pushes your party back and claims the artifact and escapes

Week 2: Step 3: The enemy invasion
A norn village in the north comes under siege from a new enemy not seen before they are currently trapped, Cult of blahblah are summoning demons to attack the walls, when the creatures get to 25% health they multiply into a weaker pair of creatures, one melee and one spell based. or some other gimmick which is a pain to fight and hasn’t appeared in guildwars before.

Part 1: defend the walls for 15 minutes from waves of demons.
Part 2: Large demons appear, hold out for 15 minutes so the villagers can be evacuated.
Cinematic ending : The cult summon a huge behemoth of a creature using the artifact stolen in week 2, cue LOTR Moria Cavetroll sequence, the creature smashes the wall to pieces, cinematic shows pieces of wall flying around squashing the npcs defenders, demons flood in and the heroes barely escape. You get the idea, a boss that slaughters anyone who gets close, notable NPC attempts to stop the creature and gets eaten.

Rewards: The server gets benefits for finishing Part 2 as the villagers escaped, eg that village is known for making a special kind of weapon(skins), if the server wins at parts 1 or 2 when the player meets the villages they acknowledge him as the hero that saved them, otherwise those villagers were killed off and the hero doesn’t get his karma bonus

Week 3: Step 4: Investigation, the classic “how do we fight them” stage

The demons have started to create a battle line in the north, the ground is blighted with ash from their pillaging but the heroes are useless to stop it, the races meet and discuss options.
The Charr and Asuran argue over how to fight the behemoth, Asurans want to make a giant golem while the charr a large experimental cannon. They end up agreeing to combine the technology. The next week involves players collecting resources and running missions to get the parts ready.

If the players finish the collecting in time they have to fight less waves in week 4 since the golem destroyed a few waves itself at the start.

Week 4: Battle.
The Golem is ready, everyone lines up for battle and both sides charge each other, the players fight off the demons while the golem fights the behemoth. After a number of waves the Golem gets blown into little pieces after the experimental cannon backfires and the heroes are forced to fight the weakened behemoth themselves.

Boss fight kicks in. Heroes win and either beat the boss or the boss escapes to come back later depending on the story, The village they fought in is still burnt out and the map is dented by the war, slowly to be repaired over the next few months. Saving the villagers in week 2 speeds up the villages recovery

The wreckage of the golem stays on the map and becomes a new jumping puzzle, the world map is now changed for future gamers based on how well the players did during the mission.

Anyway thats how I image these events to run, small threats from enemies we already know about are pretty poor, the charr aren’t exactly a threat even with the dredge unless they serve a dragon which releases hell on the players.
Events shouldn’t last more than a month or the player helps out for a day then forgets what the story is a month later like in this case.

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I know you guys are incapable of finding the right information on the living story, which totally isn’t (completely) your fault, but i just want to put this here:

From the GuildWars2.com main web site blog:
Living story article – Angel Leigh McCoy

These first couple months of teaser content have allowed us to ramp up to make the long-term Living Story an even fuller and more satisfying experience for you all. As designers have come off other projects and joined us, we’ve increased the amount of content we’ll be delivering,starting at the end of March.

This.

We got in-game messages to look for heralds in various places (these were indicated with stars).

The first instalment required us to fix a bunch of signs, if you followed the signs you fixed, it lead you to the area where all the bad stuff was first noticed. In these areas, you found dead refugees and got some of their items to give to the people waiting in tents at the side of the road. These people needed comfort and you could help them by lighting their fires. The stream of live refugees was headed straight to Lion’s Arch, where their camp is.

The second instalment required that you find specific lost items and return them to specific NPC’s, from them you could learn some of the backstory and that they plan to move to Southsun Cove. Information from the NPC’s sent us to explore the regions where the refugees were coming from and to find the portals where the bad guys were attacking from. We needed to kill a certain number of the bad guys and also learn that they are Dredge and Charr of the Blood legion. There are also hints of what types of dangers we will face when we get deeper into the plot (at least two of the refugees go into specifics about the types of attacks they faced and the results of those attacks).

All of these things were helped by talking to real players in map chat. Because some of the items were in different places at different times, it gave us the opportunity to search in groups. During all of this searching and time in the two regions, I was able to finish all of my dailies, since some of them required you to be in those specific areas.

All of this time we are left to wonder how this TEASER material will unfold.

I like it and I hope they do this more.

The stuff we got so far feels like an ARG / teaser stuff. Honestly with that limited content the way to promote it would be to NOT promote it. Let the players find it on their own and then wonder what in the heck is going on.

They messed up by announcing it and putting heralds and mailing players… Those are good systems to use when big content has arrived but bad systems to use when you’re putting teaser content in.

I got to, I can’t take this.

• How do the Dredge and Flame Legion factor into all of this?

Good question, though from the appearance of the Flame Legion and Dredge, I’d say they decided to start working together in screwing over the races they’re closest to. why? No idea, maybe we find out, maybe it winds up being a “wtf?” like “why are giants so rare?” or “why nor Risen Skritt?” . . .

• What’s up with the weather?

Steam vents/ruptures opening causing localized weather disturbances. Dredge primarily live underground, so this hints there is something going on under the surface.

• Why the Norn and Charr? Why not the Sylvari?

Dredge and Flame Legion aren’t local to Maguuma.

Since we don’t have all of these, we can’t say that there is poor direction.

We have one out of three definitively, one can be supposed, and one hasn’t been addressed yet. It’s very light on details but this thing has been purposefully stretched and updated as a minor part of the last few updates. Things have been snuck in slowly.

The refugees have been slowly revealing more since the time when they started trickling in to Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel. First it was “we don’t know what hit us” then it was talk about dredge and Flame Legion attackers being blamed but small inconsistencies (“I’ve never heard of the dredge using fire.”) when named refugees showed up late in part one.

Part two brought the lost and found and active invaders taking shots at new small settlements in Diessa and Wayfarer’s. It also brought the Consortium pouncing on the situation to try to improve its image by being helpful (while denying it had any responsibility for the karka). They’re still trying to shill Southsun Cove as a paradise, but that doesn’t mean it’s the final destination for the story . . . only where they want to send off the refugees to.

Raine.1394:

You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

So whats the point in doing the living story if there’s ‘nothing to get’? Is it just another time sink?

If they add content there has to be a benefit for both the player and the developer or we end up with useless content which takes the developers away from fixing real issues with the game.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Raine.1394:

You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

So whats the point in doing the living story if there’s ‘nothing to get’? Is it just another time sink?

If they add content there has to be a benefit for both the player and the developer or we end up with useless content which takes the developers away from fixing real issues with the game.

I hate to say this dude, but games are all time sinks. Every game from Tic-Tac-Toe through to the most sophisticated computer games.

Besides, if you don’t like the new content, don’t play it. I happen to like it.

Also, there are less and less real issues with the game with each patch. I have to say that the game is actually pretty good with respect to bugs/glitches.

I would be curious to know how you guys heard there were new items to be found. I found out there were items by looking at the living story achievements.

The first two items I found by following the refugees to Lions Arch (which I only found because I was wandering around Hoelbrak and asked someone in map chat).

For me, the fact I even feel I need to resort to map chat (or worse, a wiki), is a clear indication to me that the story is not being told as clearly as it could be. When you consider all the current parts of the story, none of them really seem to be giving enough information to have it make sense, or to do the quests with any sort of coherency.

Fortunately is don’t think it’s a hard thing to fix. All ANet needs to do is be a little more direct with the information they present. If I stop and talk to a refugee, then either have them give me bits and pieces of the story, or have them refer me to someone willing to chat about it. If an NPC asks me to go find an object, give me some indication of where I should be looking. When I bring it back, give me a little more of the story for my troubles.

The best resource they have for passing along information in the game are the NPCs. If those NPC’s aren’t giving relevant information, or direction, then players can get easily confused, or lost.

Another small thing I would have done if I were ANet is be vague in the marketing material. I shouldn’t have to learn about the story through emails that ANet sends me to encourage me to play. Just let me know something is stirring in the world, and when I log in, start me in the right direction via an NPC, email, or cutscene.

From there, let the story unfold. Let the players create buzz and speculation. Let the world start to change and react to the story both visually, and contextually. Then I think you’ll get positive reactions from the players.

“I don’t like looking for some guys car keys in the snow” sums it up

talk to the heralds vauge directions at best

yet again relying on sites like Dulfy to find out what the heck is actually happening in game

a month of teaser

then another moth of teaser

whats next

Anothe month of teaser??

Living story sorry this one is DOA call the coroner.

I completely agree. I can’t wait for this living story crap to be over and we get some real content again like the stuff we got last year.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Raine.1394:

You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

So whats the point in doing the living story if there’s ‘nothing to get’? Is it just another time sink?

If they add content there has to be a benefit for both the player and the developer or we end up with useless content which takes the developers away from fixing real issues with the game.

Different goal/reward structure – the player chose to pass on some “Gear/Time” efficiency to instead be told a (pretty ordinary) story and enjoy their place as a key support character within in.

Their Goal/Reward was to be told a story and (more tangible than digi-loot) enjoy/be engaged by it (so much suspension of disbelief req’d it needs an achievement).

If there’s not the poster child for why GW2 is not grinding fractals/dailies – for play as you want – I’m not sure what is.

JaironKalach.4938:

I suppose I could take it a step further and ask how I was supposed to know that there was a camp of refugees in LA.

Actually, the game told you explicitly, if you’d been paying attention.

Eladriel.7295:

I don’t quiet see your reasoning here.. Things that are happening in flame and frost are grounds for investigation. Upon learning the flame legion and dredge working together… that’s even more of reason for investigation.. Who would ever thought the unlikey two races would pair up.. Which then leads to more questions of what they are planning and what their motives are.

so you think that just ‘cause someone has the interest in solving a certain mystery that will be enough to solve it?
That’s not enough, otherwise we’d known everything about the whole universe.
Investigating is good, we may eventually get some clues, but there is no warranty we will ever know the truth: it would be like seeing a train exploding at the station and trying to “solve the mystery” of why it exploded, who is behind this and so on.
Help injured people instead, that’s what RL would be about, the police would eventually do its work and maybe get the thread of it.
In the future, maybe, players will be able to be part of a special investigative force which has the goal to do exactly that, but it would be a side-work, as I see this kind of living story as mainly “practical” rather than “speculative”.

The story, as it unfolds, has been explained in game.
I have had no issues following any of it. The first day , we got a mail telling us that heralds are set up in certain towns, talking to them tells you about the refugees, and to go to Hoelbrak and Black Citadel to assist.
You go there, talk to the heralds and refugee coordinators, the Norn just tell you people are coming from the north because their homes are being destroyed, the Charr tells you their people were pushed out by the Flame Legion.
Then you go out, and assist refugees by fixing signs, lighting fires in camps, helping injured refugees, checking dead refugees and giving their items to the person at the little camps off the roads. There’s also little events along the paths as you go.
Then we get another mail, go talk to the heralds and coordinators, and find out that the refugees are setting up camp in Lions Arch, you go there, you talk to two of them who lost stuff along the way, you go back to each area (Norn and Charr) and try to recover the lost items. Also, we find out that Flame Legion and Dredge have united, and all along the refugee path they are porting in, or using their car thing to pop out and attack.
A week or two ago, two more refugees in Lions Arch tell you that they lost items on their way, and again like before, you go out to each zone and locate them.
I am not understanding why it is vague or how people are getting lost with the story as it is. Locating the items is not that difficult, and there is always people in map chat who will let you know where to go if you ask. The first two items I found was thanks to two people with their commander tags on near the locations to help others out.

Jaher Dal.9503:

I am not understanding why it is vague or how people are getting lost with the story as it is. Locating the items is not that difficult, and there is always people in map chat who will let you know where to go if you ask. The first two items I found was thanks to two people with their commander tags on near the locations to help others out.

After three evenings search for one of those items, talking to NPCs in the area who know nothing, asking in mapchat (no answer) I got to disagree. Maybe I’m kinda blind or unlucky or whatsoever, no idea. I found two others so far but I think I’m gonna stop simply because the two sentences storybit you get for finding it isn’t worth that. (Pls note that i’m not asking for a tangible reward but for some kind of a story.)

Two tales:

One: some refugees have lost some family items they could probably live without (Compass? And yet here you are…not lost. Sword belt? Buy another you idiot! Or better yet, make one. A flaming toy soldier?? Seriously?) and so they decide to ask me, a famous and heroic passing warrior who has amongst other things killed a really big dragon or three to go look for it. They have no idea even roughly where they lost it, its “in diessa plateau” for example. “Hey refugee! Get stuffed. You come over here taking our jobs / women / loot etc etc Daily Mail etc etc and you think Im gonna look for your wooden soldier?? You must be crazy!!”

Two: I have lost my wallet, unless an employee of the company that made this content goes and looks for it (hint: it’s in England) I won’t be able to spend anymore money in the gem store.

Pirlipat.2479:

After three evenings search for one of those items, talking to NPCs in the area who know nothing, asking in mapchat (no answer) I got to disagree. Maybe I’m kinda blind or unlucky or whatsoever, no idea. I found two others so far but I think I’m gonna stop simply because the two sentences storybit you get for finding it isn’t worth that. (Pls note that i’m not asking for a tangible reward but for some kind of a story.)

I did not have that experience at all with searching for the items. It helps going with some friends so you can scatter across the refugee path checking on and off the path with the ctrl key pressed, especially if map or say is not helping you at all.

I am not trying to argue with anyone on their experiences, I am just saying that I have not had any issues following the story as it is, or finding the items.

I will say I only knew about the second set of lost items due to someone shouting in map chat that they found two new items, so I went to Lions Arch, and talked to the refugees, then went to each zone with a group to search for them, and we found them pretty quick.

I am sure that the goblet, the compass and the little wooden soldier will play a significant part in the future events to come.

Perhaps, a young Charr really wanted a wooden soldier because he saw a dredge with one and felt jealousy. So he asked his Dad if he could have one, his Dad said that he could not have one as the Charr are unable to do woodwork due to their claws getting in the way of the chisels and saws. The Charr asked the Dredge where he got it and the Dredge said it came from the humans or possibly the Norn, he couldnt remember. Dredge too are unable to do carpentry due to their poor eyesight.

Anyway, an alliance was formed between the Charr and the Dredge because of their desire to own wooden soldiers, so they attacked the first human settlement they cam across and killed everyone. But there was no wooden soldier. All of the human villages heard of this terrifying attack and so they all ran away to Lions Arch and Hoelbrak. They weren’t sure of the way but luckily one of them had a compass so all was great! One of the human’s actually had a sword belt too, no sword, just the belt and he buckled it on for the journey…..

etc etc etc…blah blah…..I lost interest already.

I just would like Story to be more expanded, why not a bit voice acting, or even expand our OWN story mode with the monthly stories?

What we do in thoose Stories should be written in our legend, that place when we press H key that ended up when we finished story mode.

A living story itself should give us PERSONAL Story Quests also (not saying PVE ones shouldn’t be there), instanced… Like Mad King Boss, it was AWESOME. I want more of that, please.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

If this is the case, Anet should have:

- titled the event otherwise, because “living” is something else (evolving?)

and Anet shouldnt have:

- announced the living story being something epic and…oh sooo exciting

but rather decribe it for what it really is: a teaser (or a live test but that would be too honest)

and voila…lot of confusion and disappointment goes pooof

the problem is that (mmo) companies exaggerate every tiny update to something new and groundbreaking for the world and then wonder, why their customers are disappointed.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

Wow. Now I feel kind of dumb for complaining.

I haven’t found the Living Story to be excessively vague – I think it’s doing a decent job of capturing the sense of the unknown.

I had a bit of trouble finding my first refugee item, the next three were rather easy after I stopped to think about where I found the first one…

If I had to make any complaint, I would say that it would be nice to have some kind of way to find out about invasions elsewhere in the zone if you are too far to see the event circles. Sort of like how static events have some NPCs that run out to other locations to call for help, but a longer range.

Otherwise, I like what I’ve seen so far. Sure, there could be more depth to the elements they’ve provided, but wall of text is not suitable for an MMO, and cinematics (good ones) take a while to make.

At least they didn’t put in any more speech cutscenes like the Personal Story has – those are disruptive and annoying.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

I’m not sure I get it.

So in order for us to understand the current state of the Living Story, and to complete the missions (that have achievements attached), we are expected to read external blogs/forums, search Wiki’s, guess, or use map chat to figure out what isn’t going on?

I think I am more confused now than I was when I started this post.

Here are my current questions relating to the Living Story. If anyone can answer them, I would appreciate it.

1. Why are NPC’s so vague regarding the location of lost items?

2. Is it expected that we “cheat” to solve these mysteries by using external sites and map chat?

3. Why are their achievements in the game, if the content doesn’t have any purpose other than a teaser?

4. If players decide not to collect the achievements currently available, will they be able to do so later, when the Living Story is actually running?

That’s all I really want to know.

Dafomen.7892:

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

If this is the case, Anet should have:

- titled the event otherwise, because “living” is something else (evolving?)

and Anet shouldnt have:

- announced the living story being something epic and…oh sooo exciting

but rather decribe it for what it really is: a teaser (or a live test but that would be too honest)

and voila…lot of confusion and disappointment goes pooof

the problem is that (mmo) companies exaggerate every tiny update to something new and groundbreaking for the world and then wonder, why their customers are disappointed.

Indeed. I kinda feel like someone who got promised a box of cakes. And you get a nice shiny box but when you open it you can turn it upside down but it’s literally empty, there are no cakes inside.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

So a vague and convoluted answer is the correct way to think about a vague and convoluted piece of content?

Yargesh.4965:

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

So a vague and convoluted answer is the correct way to think about a vague and convoluted piece of content?

Basically the devs were busy so they only had enough time to make 2 weeks of content and stretched it out into two months. Now that they’re done fixing minion AI and solving world hunger (pfffffft) we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hitting things til they die.

" see what they’re trying to do with this living story, but ANet has a bad habit of being so vague that it only real viable solution is to ask someone in map chat and hope for the best."
——

I totally agree with you. In fact I was about to reply the same thing until I read the rest of your post to see you already state it. To me the events seem confusing. Even the in game event mail seems cryptic for all the events. I usually have to find some website to find out.